Looking again at the figure in the doorway

[James Richards]

Some more photos of Lovelady to throw into the mix.

FWIW.

James

[Charles Drago]

The Altgens image appears to be edited. The unnatural slant, from the shoulder down past the elbow, looks like a very bad editing job, IMO. I have to ask...where is his shoulder?

Unless the man who appears to be standing behind him was in front of him...it makes no sense to me.

His shoulder does look odd. Or his lack of shoulder I should say.

I suppose it would not be difficult to determine if there had been a window of opportunitiy to alter the image before it came into the public domain. When was the film developed? When was it first viewed, and by whom?

If an opportunity did exist for alteration -- and to be frank, I doubt this is the case -- those wishing to mire investigators in ambiguity and confusion would have been well-served by superimposing LHO's body under Lovelady's face (and NOT vice-versa).

Here we are, after all, 44 years on and still wondering ...

Charles

[James R Gordon]

The Altgens image appears to be edited. The unnatural slant, from the shoulder down past the elbow, looks like a very bad editing job, IMO. I have to ask...where is his shoulder?

Unless the man who appears to be standing behind him was in front of him...it makes no sense to me.

His shoulder does look odd. Or his lack of shoulder I should say.

I suppose it would not be difficult to determine if there had been a window of opportunitiy to alter the image before it came into the public domain. When was the film developed? When was it first viewed, and by whom?

If an opportunity did exist for alteration -- and to be frank, I doubt this is the case -- those wishing to mire investigators in ambiguity and confusion would have been well-served by superimposing LHO's body under Lovelady's face (and NOT vice-versa).

Here we are, after all, 44 years on and still wondering ...

Charles

The more I look into this, the more curious it becomes. I cannot agree that the shirt worn by Lovelady is anything like that worn by the figure. It is just too different as I have repeatedly pointed out in this thread. I am going to hold back on this for a little while I do some more work on the figures and their clothes.

I have heard people suggest that Oswald states that he was in the lunch room and this is reported in Fitz’s notes. This is both right and he is wrong here. Oswald did indeed say he was in the lunch, but went on to say that also went outside to watch the procession in the company of William Shelley. And that is also in Fitz’s notes. See slide 1 below.

Billy Lovelady says that he was outside in the company of Sarah Stanton and William Shelley. Sarah Stanton says that she was outside in the company of Billy Lovelady and William Shelley. And now we have Oswald saying he was also outside in the company of William Shelley. As a consequence I began to look more closely at this image of the doorway. I think I have identified William Shelley and Sarah Stanton. To the right of Sarah and below William is our figure. Below Sarah is a figure whose face has been removed!! See slide 2 below.

Does anyone know about this part of the Altgen’s picture. It is an extremely curious part of the image. Because if you go back to the fourth image I initially posted this person is standing in exactly the position Billy Lovelady chooses to stand to demonstrate to Bob Jackson in 1971 where he stood that day. Looking at the remaining image of the person there is the suggestion that they are indeed wearing a striped garment. It would help it someone could detail the story of this image and why this part is damaged.

James

[Myra Bronstein]

Here are the timeline points I have for Lee on November 22:

11:45am Oswald is left on 6th floor of TSBD as workmates go to lunch. He yells, “Guys, How about an elevator?

Send one of the elevators back up.”

11:50am TSBD foreman Bill Shelley sees Oswald near telephone on first floor.

12:00pm TSBD employee Eddie Piper speaks to Oswald “Just at twelve o’clock, down on the first floor.”

12:15pm Carolyn Arnold sees Oswald in 2nd floor lunchroom. ”Oswald was sitting in one of the booth seats on the right

hand side of the room as you go in. He was alone as usual & appeared to be having lunch.

I did not speak to him but I recognized him clearly.”

12:15pm Witness Arnold Rowland observes man with rifle at Western end of TSBD.

12:15-12:20pm TSBD employee Bonnie Ray Williams leaves 6th floor after eating lunch; he sees nobody.

12:20pm Bonnie Ray Williams leaves 6th floor & uses elevator; joins co-workers on 5th floor to watch motorcade.

12:30pm President Kennedy is shot multiple times while riding in motorcade through downtown Dallas.

12:33pm Oswald leaves Depository...

I'm missing some points. Didn't a cop see him standing by a phone afterwards?

But from this is looks like Lee had time to go stand outside for a few minutes.

[Kathleen Collins]

Bernice posted a color photo of the Doorway. It is obvious this photo was edited, blacking out people there for whatever reason. Altgens photo looks to me like they tampered with it too. And like Charles said, they may have altered this picture too because Lovelady's head is atop a body in a weird pose. That, imo, is definitely Lovelady's face. Which makes you wonder, could he have been involved in the "Backyard Photos"? Nobody in that doorway could have known yet that Kennedy was shot.

Then in the FBI mug shots, he is wearing a striped shirt. As I don't know why he was photographed by the FBI or when, this shirt may or may not be important.

Kathy

Edited June 15, 2007 by Kathleen Collins

[Bernice Moore]

James :The shirt comparison photo is from Jack......thanks...

From Gary Shaws "Cover-Up" 76 & 92... page 41..

"Lovelady likewise told independant researcher Jones Harris ( who specialzes

in photographic aspects of the President's murder) that on Nov.22 he was

wearing a red and white striped shirt buttoned near the neck.WC XXII H 794.

***************

WXXII page 794.. Hearings

New York Herald Tribune...Article May 24/64..clip

"Ten days ago, still brooding over the picture Jones Harris flew to Dallas, met with Lovelady and talked to him for about quarter of and hour. Lovelady told him yes, it was he standing in the doorway.. Lovelady also told him that the FBI has taken several pictures of him , presumably to compare with the AP picture of the assassination scene. Lovelady also said that on November 22 he was wearing a red -and-white striped sports shirt buttoned near the neck.."..

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol22_0412b.htm

I am in a rush, so if I have doubled any previously posted photos ,sorry......so be it..

B......

[Bill Miller]

Bernice posted a color photo of the Doorway. It is obvious this photo was edited, blacking out people there for whatever reason. Altgens photo looks to me like they tampered with it too. And like Charles said, they may have altered this picture too because Lovelady's head is atop a body in a weird pose. That, imo, is definitely Lovelady's face. Which makes you wonder, could he have been involved in the "Backyard Photos"? Nobody in that doorway could have known yet that Kennedy was shot.

Then in the FBI mug shots, he is wearing a striped shirt. As I don't know why he was photographed by the FBI or when, this shirt may or may not be important.

Kathy

When does a lack of understanding how light and shadows work on these films equate tampering with the image??? Does not the dark colors (or to use your words like "blackening out" of people) show up as well in other areas that are dark like the cops uniform or the suit coats that are out in the sun.

Also, if someone will .... please choose the frame of Lovelady from the DCA film where he turns slightly which exposes his open shirt and allows us to see his white T-shirt.

Thanks.

Edited June 18, 2007 by Bill Miller

[Kathleen Collins]

Bernice posted a color photo of the Doorway. It is obvious this photo was edited, blacking out people there for whatever reason. Altgens photo looks to me like they tampered with it too. And like Charles said, they may have altered this picture too because Lovelady's head is atop a body in a weird pose. That, imo, is definitely Lovelady's face. Which makes you wonder, could he have been involved in the "Backyard Photos"? Nobody in that doorway could have known yet that Kennedy was shot.

Then in the FBI mug shots, he is wearing a striped shirt. As I don't know why he was photographed by the FBI or when, this shirt may or may not be important.

Kathy

When does a lack of understanding how light and shadows work on these films equate tampering with the image??? Does not the dark colors (or to use your words like "blackening out" of people) show up as well in other areas that are dark like the cops uniform or the suit coats that are out in the sun.

Also, if someone will .... please choose the frame of Lovelady from the DCA film where he turns slightly which exposes his open shirt and allows us to see his white T-shirt.

Thanks.

Bill, there may be artifacts in that photo, as there are objects or bits of people that one can't decipher. You're right that I'm not a photographer. But --

It was a bright day when Kennedy was killed. Yet the Grassy Knoll in the Nix film is blacked out, imo. Another photo exists of a bus stopped in front of the Pergola right after the shooting, and the knoll is so bright. I'm saying that these photos, the Nix film, were altered to hide the killers and their activities.

Kathy

[Bill Miller]

Bill, there may be artifacts in that photo, as there are objects or bits of people that one can't decipher. You're right that I'm not a photographer. But --

It was a bright day when Kennedy was killed. Yet the Grassy Knoll in the Nix film is blacked out, imo. Another photo exists of a bus stopped in front of the Pergola right after the shooting, and the knoll is so bright. I'm saying that these photos, the Nix film, were altered to hide the killers and their activities.

Kathy

Kathy, The grassy knoll in the Nix film copy is a result of a procedure done by Robert Groden called "blocking" if I remember correctly. The idea was to bring the color out in the Nix film or bring it to a more realistic state. This is what caused the knoll to be so dark and nothing more. The original film has since been lost.

Bill

[Thomas Graves]

[...]

[...]

__________________________

Regarding image "E" (and "A") in "Photo 2," post #1, does anyone know where the photo/footage was taken (in the Dallas Police Headquarters?) and why Lovelady was sitting there? Had he been brought in as a witness? If so, were there other witnesses sitting/standing near Lovelady, or was he the only one right then right there? Interesting that when LHO is filmed passing through a hallway (?) being taken in to Fritz's office (?), he passes right by the sitting Lovelady....

Thanks,

--Thomas

_________________________

Edited June 16, 2007 by Thomas Graves

[Robin Unger]

Wiegman frame.

Edited June 16, 2007 by Robin Unger

[Robin Unger]

Doorway Blowup.

[Bernice Moore]

Robin:

I believe this may be yours....?? showing Lovelady's white T shirt.......that had been posted some time back..

on the F..

Now if someone could post his GIF......? not yours, anothers....

I am also posting the comparison of the facial features, side view......Lovelady and man seen in the doorway..??

B.........

Edited June 17, 2007 by Bernice Moore

[Robin Unger]

Hughes frame.

[Bernice Moore]

Thanks Robin, that's the one....

B..