Another Bledsoe lie?

[Jack White]

Jack,

Is this the report in question?

James

James,

The following all point to this being a fake.

She testified that he registered under the name Lee Oswald.

Jack R had long ago legally changed his name to Ruby (any report or article showing his name as Rubenstein usually points to an Ultra as the author)

Roscoe White listed as attending. (though I suppose they could have gone whole hog and had him going with Tippit!)

The amount of detail in the report. You can go through the entire DPD assassination archive and will not you find a report of this nature with anywhere near as much detail.

Greg...stop and think a minute.

WHETHER GENUINE OR FAKE, this "official" document EXISTS.

It first came to light in the FILES OF MARGUERITE OSWALD.

Its existence and known provenance make it WORTHY OF STUDY.

Since it exists:

1. Whoever wrote it was knowledgeable about many facts

2. There must have been a reason for writing it

3. Who wrote it and why?

4. Whoever wrote it had access to DPD forms

5. Writing a false report was a crime

6. Some have claimed it was a joke; what's funny?

7. How did Marguerite get a copy?

There is the matter of H.H. Grant, a witness...which deserves

investigation (I have info on this but may have lost it in a

computer crash; maybe Bernice saved it years ago from the

DellaRosa forum).

IMO, this should not be dismissed as a joke hoax but investigated

to find its relevance. And I would like to know the provenance

of James's copy FROM HIS VAST INTELLIGENCE SOURCES...clearly

different than Marguerite's indistinct copy.

Jack

[Greg Parker]

Greg,

One of the officers listed on that report is J.C. White. There was an accident investigator with that name as well as a patrolman who during the assassination was standing on the west side of the triple overpass. When asked about where the shots came from, he said that he didn't hear any shots because at the time, there was a noisy freight train.

FWIW.

James

Thanks James.

That point is out the door. But the other three points still make me think it's a fake.

Greg...stop and think a minute.

WHETHER GENUINE OR FAKE, this "official" document EXISTS.

It first came to light in the FILES OF MARGUERITE OSWALD.

Its existence and known provenance make it WORTHY OF STUDY.

Since it exists:

1. Whoever wrote it was knowledgeable about many facts

2. There must have been a reason for writing it

3. Who wrote it and why?

4. Whoever wrote it had access to DPD forms

5. Writing a false report was a crime

6. Some have claimed it was a joke; what's funny?

7. How did Marguerite get a copy?

There is the matter of H.H. Grant, a witness...which deserves

investigation (I have info on this but may have lost it in a

computer crash; maybe Bernice saved it years ago from the

DellaRosa forum).

IMO, this should not be dismissed as a joke hoax but investigated

to find its relevance. And I would like to know the provenance

of James's copy FROM HIS VAST INTELLIGENCE SOURCES...clearly

different than Marguerite's indistinct copy.

Jack

Jack, I never said it was a hoax.

She testified that he had signed in as a boarder under the name of Lee Oswald -- not as OH Lee as this report alleges.

Mr. JENNER - You walked out after the transaction, financially, was complete?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - I went and he paid--he had already paid me but I wanted him to put his name on here.

Mr. JENNER - On your register?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - On this [indicating].

Mr. JENNER - He did that

Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes.

Mr. JENNER - In your presence?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes; in the living room.

Mr. JENNER - Your recollection was that he wrote the words "Lee Oswald"?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - Lee Oswald.

The report has mispelled "Hidell" with only one "l" despite reference to having mail and ID cards in that name to show Bledsoe.

The report cites Rubenstein as one of the offenders. Jack would never have given that as his name. His name was legally Jack Leon Ruby. Just about every report and article after the assassination refering to him as Rubenstein was from some right winger trying to link a Jew to a Commie. I'll go with that as the whole purpose of this report. It also lists his age as 39 when he was actually over 50.

The report states the fight occurred in the room she had rented to "Lee/Hidel" earlier in the week, and that a bed, chairs and TV set were all damaged. Whilst a rooming house circa '63 would have a bed and possibly chairs provided in the rooms - a TV set in each room is not likely.

Compare the amount of detail in this report on a very very minor incident to reports held in the DPD archives associated with the crime of the century. Go through those, and you get an idea what they thought about paperwork and going into great detail in that paperwork. This report goes way over-the-top in ensuring that certain details are inserted to give it credibility. The DPD was riddled with members of right wing groups, so it's not entirely surprising that the form itself may be genuine.

Investigate it by all means. The real authors have a lot of explaining to do about the purpose of it.

[Jack White]

Greg...you misread what I wrote.

I was not arguing for the AUTHENTICITY of the document, as you believe.

I was arguing for its SIGNIFICANCE. Dismissing it as a hoax is ignoring its evidentiary importance.

Read more carefully and without prejudice.

Jack

[Greg Parker]

Greg...you misread what I wrote.

I was not arguing for the AUTHENTICITY of the document, as you believe.

I was arguing for its SIGNIFICANCE. Dismissing it as a hoax is ignoring its evidentiary importance.

Read more carefully and without prejudice.

Jack

Jack, I never claimed you were arguing for it's authenticity.

In post # 7 you said, "it was on an official DPD complaint form." In was in response to that comment that I said, "The DPD was riddled with members of right wing groups, so it's not entirely surprising that the form itself may be genuine."

It should go without saying that the form could be authentic, even if the report it contains is not. I thought I was agreeing with you on that point.

With respect, it is you who needs to read more carefully, otherwise I would not have to repeat that I (also) never claimed it was a hoax.

In fact, I agreed with you that it should be investigated, and I said why I thought it was significant.

I do notice this is not the first time I have provided you with my thoughts and/or evidence on an issue where, instead of responding directly to what I have said, you choose to attack me on non-existent grounds.

The report is phony, Jack. If it's not, it should be easy to rebut all the reasons I've given for that position.

[Steve Thomas]

Greg,

Steve, I think she just misspoke when she said "girl" and corrected it to "baby".

I took that into consideration.

At the end of her testimony, Bledsoe was relating a telephone call that LHO received on Friday, October 11th. She said:

Mr. JENNER - Your son answered the phone?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - And he called him to the phone, and seemed like that she was going to have a child and---

Mr. JENNER - You heard enough of the conversation that you have the recollection that he said something about his wife possibly having to go to the hospital?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes.

Mr. JENNER - For the delivery of her child?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes.

Mr. JENNER - Was this the first time you had any knowledge that his wife was with child?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes.

Still and all, referring to a picture that Oswald took out of a billfold and showed to her on Monday the 7th seems pretty concrete, and very bizarre.

Steve Thomas

[Steve Thomas]

Greg,

I had been a little suspicious in the past about the notes she read from and having her lawyer present. But if, as Michael Hogan says, she'd recently had a stroke, I think both actions are explicable - but that's not to say that what created the need for both could not have been exploited.

Actually, I got started compiling the witnesses who seem to have been coached by Forrest Sorrels before their testimony.

Aside from Bledsoe and Howard Brennan, I thought I remembered someone along the lines of James Worrell or Amos Euins. As I run across them, I'd like to add them up and compare them to their significance in determining the "official" story of what happened that day.

[Michael Hogan]

Jerry Rose's magnificent journal The Third (Fourth) Decade remains an important resource.

In the November 1994 (Volume 2, Number 1) issue, James R Folliard's article deals with the Bledsoe story in relative depth:

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...bsPageId=519474

[William O'Neil]

Greg,

One of the officers listed on that report is J.C. White. There was an accident investigator with that name as well as a patrolman who during the assassination was standing on the west side of the triple overpass. When asked about where the shots came from, he said that he didn't hear any shots because at the time, there was a noisy freight train.

FWIW.

James

Thanks James.

That point is out the door. But the other three points still make me think it's a fake.

Greg...stop and think a minute.

WHETHER GENUINE OR FAKE, this "official" document EXISTS.

It first came to light in the FILES OF MARGUERITE OSWALD.

Its existence and known provenance make it WORTHY OF STUDY.

Since it exists:

1. Whoever wrote it was knowledgeable about many facts

2. There must have been a reason for writing it

3. Who wrote it and why?

4. Whoever wrote it had access to DPD forms

5. Writing a false report was a crime

6. Some have claimed it was a joke; what's funny?

7. How did Marguerite get a copy?

There is the matter of H.H. Grant, a witness...which deserves

investigation (I have info on this but may have lost it in a

computer crash; maybe Bernice saved it years ago from the

DellaRosa forum).

IMO, this should not be dismissed as a joke hoax but investigated

to find its relevance. And I would like to know the provenance

of James's copy FROM HIS VAST INTELLIGENCE SOURCES...clearly

different than Marguerite's indistinct copy.

Jack

Jack, I never said it was a hoax.

She testified that he had signed in as a boarder under the name of Lee Oswald -- not as OH Lee as this report alleges.

Mr. JENNER - You walked out after the transaction, financially, was complete?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - I went and he paid--he had already paid me but I wanted him to put his name on here.

Mr. JENNER - On your register?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - On this [indicating].

Mr. JENNER - He did that

Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes.

Mr. JENNER - In your presence?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes; in the living room.

Mr. JENNER - Your recollection was that he wrote the words "Lee Oswald"?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - Lee Oswald.

The report has mispelled "Hidell" with only one "l" despite reference to having mail and ID cards in that name to show Bledsoe.

The report cites Rubenstein as one of the offenders. Jack would never have given that as his name. His name was legally Jack Leon Ruby. Just about every report and article after the assassination refering to him as Rubenstein was from some right winger trying to link a Jew to a Commie. I'll go with that as the whole purpose of this report. It also lists his age as 39 when he was actually over 50.

The report states the fight occurred in the room she had rented to "Lee/Hidel" earlier in the week, and that a bed, chairs and TV set were all damaged. Whilst a rooming house circa '63 would have a bed and possibly chairs provided in the rooms - a TV set in each room is not likely.

Compare the amount of detail in this report on a very very minor incident to reports held in the DPD archives associated with the crime of the century. Go through those, and you get an idea what they thought about paperwork and going into great detail in that paperwork. This report goes way over-the-top in ensuring that certain details are inserted to give it credibility. The DPD was riddled with members of right wing groups, so it's not entirely surprising that the form itself may be genuine.

Investigate it by all means. The real authors have a lot of explaining to do about the purpose of it.

Greg, The Ultra's were JUST trying to be accurate........

....and Pigs can Fly!

-Bill

[Antti Hynonen]

Regarding the Police report. Definitely, "Jacob Rubenstein W/M/39" is wrong - he was about 52 at the time. They're off by 13 years....

[Greg Parker]

Greg,

Steve, I think she just misspoke when she said "girl" and corrected it to "baby".

I took that into consideration.

At the end of her testimony, Bledsoe was relating a telephone call that LHO received on Friday, October 11th. She said:

Mr. JENNER - Your son answered the phone?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - And he called him to the phone, and seemed like that she was going to have a child and---

Mr. JENNER - You heard enough of the conversation that you have the recollection that he said something about his wife possibly having to go to the hospital?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes.

Mr. JENNER - For the delivery of her child?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes.

Mr. JENNER - Was this the first time you had any knowledge that his wife was with child?

Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes.

Still and all, referring to a picture that Oswald took out of a billfold and showed to her on Monday the 7th seems pretty concrete, and very bizarre.

Steve Thomas

Steve, am having second thoughts about this. I'm not even sure now she misspoke when she said, here is a picture of my wife, and picture of the girl, and the baby." And I said, "Oh, she has got a baby, hasn't she?" And he said, "Yes."

During her testimony, she sometimes referred to Marina as "the girl", as other times as Oswald's wife. She also stated in another part of her testimony that we got inside the house and he had a thing where this---pictures of his wife and baby

So it would seem it was more than one photo he showed. One of his wife (on her own) and one of his wife [the girl] and her baby.

[Greg Parker]

Regarding the Police report. Definitely, "Jacob Rubenstein W/M/39" is wrong - he was about 52 at the time. They're off by 13 years....

Antti, Ruby had a record stretching back a few years with the DPD. I believe he was named as Ruby in each of those records.

And they were also out by a year on LHO's age.

[Steve Thomas]

Greg,

So it would seem it was more than one photo he showed. One of his wife (on her own) and one of his wife [the girl] and her baby.

You know, you just might be right.

Steve Thomas

[Bill Simpich]

     At top, see 21-18-1-6-9-14-11 - it spells U-R-A-F-I-N-K

 

A "General Offense Report" was created in investigating the General Walker shooting of 4/10/63.  The 10/11/63 Bledsoe police report is a clever forgery, as Oswald was allegedly living in the home of Mary Bledsoe at 621 N. Marsalis the week of October 7-14.

James R. Follliard wrote a case study of this fake report in 1994 - Mary Ferrell told him that Dallas researcher Rev. Al Chapman told her that it was provided to him by Lt. Carl Day  Several copies existed of varying quality before the Garrison trial in 1969 - a forensic examiner should try to figure out how and when it was created.  The head of DPD forensics, Day destroyed the chain of custody for the three rifle shells - Day also took custody of the rifle at the 6th Floor, and claimed finding fingerprints that were not found by the FBI.

James R. Black followed up Folliard's study with a great memo showing that a substitution cipher was used for the number of the report - 21-18-1-6-9-14-11 becomes U-R-A-F-I-N-K.  A fink is commonly known a stool pigeon.  Black offers several good reasons such a game might have been played.

The most provocative reading would be that Oswald was shown this memo before the assassination to let him know that he was a known stool pigeon to the police.   My tentative conclusion - subject to change - is that this fake police report was created to waste time and poison any notion that Ruby and Oswald knew each other or even knew about each other.  Such a technique is very effective.  I don't think this was a joke.  There is nothing "funny" about this kind of malicious forgery.

 

 

Edited February 22, 2023 by Bill Simpich

[Pat Speer]

1 hour ago, Bill Simpich said:

     At top, see 21-18-1-6-9-14-11 - it spells U-R-A-F-I-N-K

 

A "General Offense Report" was created in investigating the General Walker shooting of 4/10/63.  The 10/11/63 Bledsoe police report is a clever forgery, as Oswald was allegedly living in the home of Mary Bledsoe at 621 N. Marsalis the week of October 7-14.

James R. Follliard wrote a case study of this fake report in 1994 - Mary Ferrell told him that Dallas researcher Rev. Al Chapman told her that it was provided to him by Lt. Carl Day  Several copies existed of varying quality before the Garrison trial in 1969 - a forensic examiner should try to figure out how and when it was created.  The head of DPD forensics, Day destroyed the chain of custody for the three rifle shells - Day also took custody of the rifle at the 6th Floor, and claimed finding fingerprints that were not found by the FBI.

James R. Black followed up Folliard's study with a great memo showing that a substitution cipher was used for the number of the report - 21-18-1-6-9-14-11 becomes U-R-A-F-I-N-K.  A fink is commonly known a stool pigeon.  Black offers several good reasons such a game might have been played.

The most provocative reading would be that Oswald was shown this memo before the assassination to let him know that he was a known stool pigeon to the police.   My tentative conclusion - subject to change - is that this fake police report was created to waste time and poison any notion that Ruby and Oswald knew each other or even knew about each other.  Such a technique is very effective.  I don't think this was a joke.  There is nothing "funny" about this kind of malicious forgery.

 

 

Am I correct in interpreting your last paragraph to mean that the report was designed to be exposed as a fake--to make CTs look desperate? 

[Steve Thomas]

1 hour ago, Bill Simpich said:

  There is nothing "funny" about this kind of malicious forgery.

Bill.

On top of anything else, Hidel is spelled wrong.

Steve Thomas