Ray Mitcham Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 (edited) Jon, according to Nurse Bowron, the first Doctor too see JFK was Dr Carrico. She and Nurse Hinchcliffe cut off the Presidents clothing, This from her WC testimony. Mr. SPECTER - And were there any other nurses present at that time when the President arrived in the trauma area? Miss BOWRON - I don't think so, sir. Mr. SPECTER - Were there any doctors present besides Dr. Carrico? Miss BOWRON - I didn't notice anybody---there may have been. Mr. SPECTER - What action did you observe Dr. Carrico take, if any? Miss BOWRON - We tried to start an I.V. cutdown and I don't know whether it was his left or his right leg, and Miss Henchliffe and I cut off his clothing and then after that everybody just arrived at once and it was more or less everybody sort of helping everybody else. We opened the chest tube trays and the venesectron trays. This by Dr Carrico Mr. SPECTER - Who was the first doctor to reach President Kennedy on his arrival at Parkland Hospital? Dr. CARRICO - I was. Mr. SPECTER - And who else was with President Kennedy on his arrival, as best you can recollect it? Dr. CARRICO - Mrs. Kennedy was there, .and there were some men in the room, who I assumed were Secret Service men; I don't know. Mr. SPECTER - Can you identify any nurses who were present, in addition to Miss Bowron? Dr. CARRICO - No, I don't recall any of them. Edited January 20, 2016 by Ray Mitcham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Neal Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) Nurse Bowron in 1993. "saw an entry wound in the front of the throat." Seems the throat wound was there before the victim was moved into Parkland. Ray, Good job finding this testimony from her 1993 telephone interview with Harrison Livingston. IIRC it was published in his book "Killing the Truth." I've only found bits and pieces of it. Do you have the entire interview? Unfortunately, there is a problem here when you compare it with her 1964 WC testimony: Mr. SPECTER - While the doctors were working on President Kennedy, did you ever have any opportunity to observe his neck? Miss BOWRON - No; I didn't, until afterwards.. Mr. SPECTER - Until after what? Miss BOWRON - Until after they had pronounced him dead and we cleaned up and removed the trach tube, and indeed we were really too shocked to really take much notice. Mr. SPECTER - Did you ever see his neck prior to the time you removed the trach tube? Miss BOWRON - No, sir. She did see the wound AFTER the trach tube had been removed -- but she never saw the untouched neck wound. In a filmed interview on CSPAN in 1997, Carrico (in an exceptionally badly-executed interview) says he didn't actually see the neck wound until AFTER the nurses had removed JFK's clothing. So he can't say whether the wound was visible above the collar or not. It seems that the person who is the most likely to know, is whichever nurse actually cut through JFK's necktie. If it was Bowron, then she didn't see it. If it was Hinchliffe, I've found no indication that she was ever asked. Not in official testimony anyway... In this 1993 interview she also states that she observed JFK's back wound when he was taken from the stretcher to be put in the coffin. Prior to this 1990s interview, neither she, Nurse Margaret Hincliffe, or Orderly David Sanders was specifically asked if they had observed JFK's back wound. No one ELSE at Parkland has testified that they saw the back wound. From his 1964 WC testimony: Carrico, who checked JFK "for a large back wound" only by raising JFK's back above the stretcher and feeling around with his gloved hands did not detect any large wound. He further stated that "with all the blood and debris" there "could have been a back wound." Dr. Carrico's testimony doesn't prove no back wound existed as some contend, nor does it prove that the back wound existed at Parkland. Tom Edited January 21, 2016 by Tom Neal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Mitcham Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 This from Nurse Hincliffe's testimony to the W.C. Mr Specter "What did you observe to be the President's condition when you first saw him?" Miss Hinchcliffe "I saw him breathe a couple of times and that was all." Mr Specter "Did you ever see any wound in any other part of his body?" Miss Hinchcliffe "Yes; he was very bloody, his head was very bloody when I saw him at the time." Mr Specter "Did you ever see any other wound in any other part of his body?" Miss Hinchcliffe "When I first saw- except on his head." Mr Specter "Did you see any wound on any other part of his body?" Miss Hinchcliffe "Yes; in the neck." Mr Specter "Would you describe it please?" Miss Hinchcliffe "It was just a little hole in the middle of his neck." Mr Specter "About how big a hole was it." Miss Hinchcliffe "About as big around as the end of my little finger." Mr Specter "Have you ever had any experience with bullet holes?" Miss Hinchcliffe "Yes" Mr Specter "And what did it appear to you to be ?" Miss Hinchcliffe "An entrance bullet hole – it looked to me like." So we have Nurse Bowron, Nurse Hinchcliffe and Dr Carrico who all saw the bullet hole before Perry started treating the President. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon G. Tidd Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Thanks, Ray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Ray hits another one out of the park. Good show, again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Regarding the discrepancy between Nurse Bowron's WC testimony and her 1993 interview, as they pertain to the neck wound, we seem to see a growing pattern here when we compare this discrepancy to the testimony, and later interviews, of other witnesses. Dare I suggest alterations to the WC testimony of many witnesses by WC lawyers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Neal Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 So we have Nurse Bowron, Nurse Hinchcliffe and Dr Carrico who all saw the bullet hole before Perry started treating the President.Mr. SPECTER - Did you ever see his neck prior to the time you removed the trach tube? Miss BOWRON - No, sir. As I stated in my post #197: Diana Bowron never saw the untouched neck wound. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Mitcham Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 So we have Nurse Bowron, Nurse Hinchcliffe and Dr Carrico who all saw the bullet hole before Perry started treating the President.Mr. SPECTER - Did you ever see his neck prior to the time you removed the trach tube?Miss BOWRON - No, sir. As I stated in my post #197: Diana Bowron never saw the untouched neck wound. Tom See Bob's post just above this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Neal Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) DUPE Edited January 21, 2016 by Tom Neal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Neal Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) See Bob's post just above this. Ray, I did see that post, and I agree that it is certainly possible that this and any other testimony was altered. IF it benefited the Commission to do so. BUT, since you presented her testimony as evidence of what she saw, that is what I am referring to. Until she herself indicates that her testimony was altered, we have to include the possibility that in the 30 year interval between her WC testimony and telephone interview her memory may have changed. Ray: Do you have access to the 1993 Bowron interview in its entirety? I've never read the whole thing. Tom Edited January 21, 2016 by Tom Neal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Neal Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) What I can't decide from her testimony, is exactly WHEN Henchliffe FIRST observed the "neck wound". This is germane to Ashton Gray's post as to whether the neck wound was FIRST OBSERVED prior to the removal of JFK's clothing, or after. This from Nurse Hincliffe's testimony to the W.C. Mr Specter "What did you observe to be the President's condition when you first saw him?" Miss Hinchcliffe "I saw him breathe a couple of times and that was all." Mr Specter "Did you ever see any wound in any other part of his body?" Specter has now changed the time frame from "when you first saw him" to at any time Miss Hinchcliffe "Yes; he was very bloody, his head was very bloody when I saw him at the time." Henchliffe only mentions the head even though Specter has asked if she "ever" saw a wound in any "other part" of his body Mr Specter "Did you ever see any other wound in any other part of his body?" Specter repeats the question in identical words Miss Hinchcliffe "When I first saw- except on his head." She is referring to what she "first saw" not what she ever saw. In the subsequent part of her response: "-except on his head"; is IMO, her asking for affirmation from Specter that he wants to know if she saw any wounds on his body not including any wounds on his head when she FIRST saw the body. Mr Specter "Did you see any wound on any other part of his body?" Specter repeats the question, but does not reference any time period Miss Hinchcliffe "Yes; in the neck." She states that she did see a neck wound, but is she referring to when she "first saw him" or at any time? Mr Specter "Would you describe it please?" Miss Hinchcliffe "It was just a little hole in the middle of his neck." Mr Specter "About how big a hole was it." Miss Hinchcliffe "About as big around as the end of my little finger." At no time does she describe the transverse incision made by Malcolm Perry. IMO she saw it PRIOR to Perry's tracheostomy. But did she see the wound before she and Bowron removed JFK's clothing? IF she only saw the wound AFTER removing JFK's necktie and shirt, then the wound was located 'behind' the tie and collar. If so, then ANY projectile exiting his neck had to damage the collar and tie, or the shirt. The tie has a "nick" and the shirt has a vertical "slit" below the collar. Whatever made the slit did so while the shirt was buttoned, so it passed through two layers of overlapping cloth. The 'prevailing' theory is that the tie and shirt damage was caused by the nurses using scalpels to hurriedly remove JFK's clothing. Does anyone know if the slits in the shirt were subjected to the same spectrographic analysis as were the holes in the back of JFK's suitcoat and shirt? Tom Edited January 21, 2016 by Tom Neal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashton Gray Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 Mr. SPECTER - Who was the first doctor to reach President Kennedy on his arrival at Parkland Hospital? Dr. CARRICO - I was. Mr. SPECTER - And who else was with President Kennedy on his arrival, as best you can recollect it? Dr. CARRICO - Mrs. Kennedy was there, .and there were some men in the room, who I assumed were Secret Service men; I don't know. Mr. SPECTER - Can you identify any nurses who were present, in addition to Miss Bowron? Dr. CARRICO - No, I don't recall any of them. I believe that Dr. Burkley has not been given due attention in consideration of who was in the trauma room, and who had access to Kennedy's body, and when. He had his little black bag with him, supplying steroids. I mentioned this in the first post in the thread and still believe it bears further attention. Ashton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashton Gray Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 Generally, with all sincere due respect to analysis of the testimony of various doctors and nurses involved, the visual evidence in the first post in this thread is dispositive: No matter what any of them say, whether by origination or by being led, it is categorically impossible for there ever to have been an entrance wound visible above JFK's collar and tie. If there had been, it would be visible right this minute to anyone looking at the death photos, and there is not even a dent, much less a hole, anywhere near an area that possibly could have been above a closed collar and tie worn by anyone but a Barnum & Bailey's clown. JFK wore tailored clothes, not some polyester shirt from K-Mart that sagged down to where his chest hairs would show with a tie on. I even created an animation to show how ridiculous a shirt and tie would look in any such position. My advice would have to be look, don't listen, and believe your eyes. Ashton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Neal Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Wallace Milam interviewed Nurse Margaret Henchliffe, but I am unable to locate a transcript. Has anyone read it or know anyone that has it? Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon G. Tidd Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Tom Neal, Your post #206 goes to the heart of the Warren Commission. Despite the words of the Warren Report, the Warren Commission never gathered testimonial evidence. Sure, it gathered testimony. But the testimony was never tested on cross-examination. Further, as Robert Prudhomme has suggested, the failure to allow cross-exam may have have allowed fabrication of witness statements. IMO, Warren Commission witness statements are completely, totally unreliable. A famous judge once wrote essentially this: cross-examination is the greatest means for producing truth known to human beings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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