Bernice Moore Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 (edited) No Duke not everyone in Dealey has been identified, I do wish... That is David Wiegman in the fedora filming.....in Cancellare.. He was in the Press car 1."the reel car" the first with photographers aboard..A yellow 1964 Chev.Impala convertible. He worked for NBC--a TV cameraman..and was attached to the W.H every day for 8 years........he was 37 yrs old.at the time.. He hopped from the car near the corner of Elm & Houston , setting his camera on,and hung around his neck began filming immediately..as he ran...... the corner, the front of the TSBD the doorway, running, on down to the knoll, filming as he went, the pedestal , pergola area, the underpass, as the XP 100 disappeared under... I wish he had momentarliy stopped running, took some film and then continued, but he did not, as a result much of his film, was useless as it is distorted.. though there are some good frames.... He then ran and hopped into one of the camera convertibles and onto Parkland.... Here are a couple of his frames, TSB doorway and also the Limo disappearing under the overpass..... B........ Edited December 10, 2007 by Bernice Moore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Forman Posted December 11, 2007 Author Share Posted December 11, 2007 Lee....indeed I showed this comparison many years ago, and namedthis guy Ginandtonicman at the suggestion of Russ Schaeffer, who first said the guy seemed to be holding a glass. Enhancement of Cancellare seems to show the letters SOB at the top of the sign. Enhancement of Zapruder seems to show him pulling the sign from under his jacket. Jack Thanks Jack!!!! Even more interesting. - lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Forman Posted December 11, 2007 Author Share Posted December 11, 2007 No Duke not everyone in Dealey has been identified, I do wish...That is David Wiegman in the fedora filming.....in Cancellare.. He was in the Press car 1."the reel car" the first with photographers aboard..A yellow 1964 Chev.Impala convertible. He worked for NBC--a TV cameraman..and was attached to the W.H every day for 8 years........he was 37 yrs old.at the time.. He hopped from the car near the corner of Elm & Houston , setting his camera on,and hung around his neck began filming immediately..as he ran...... the corner, the front of the TSBD the doorway, running, on down to the knoll, filming as he went, the pedestal , pergola area, the underpass, as the XP 100 disappeared under... I wish he had momentarliy stopped running, took some film and then continued, but he did not, as a result much of his film, was useless as it is distorted.. though there are some good frames.... He then ran and hopped into one of the camera convertibles and onto Parkland.... Here are a couple of his frames, TSB doorway and also the Limo disappearing under the overpass..... B........ Bernice, Here's the close-up of the doorway again. Logic would say that if you were an avid photographer, and the President, whom you like, just happened to be driving by your building, that you would take a picture. But that's logic. - lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 Hi Lee: Hope all are well....nice to have an exchange with you.. Aw the scrambled Wily Wiegman, one of my favorites, been around that block many times, it is a fascinating film and will drive you to distraction......As to what you may and may not see according to ones view........as it runs from the corner of Elm to the underpass....and so much is so distorted as he ran...but not quite all.. But always imo worth another look... These below are what Chris Davison did for us, on another F, I do believe some time back ? when it was being discussed...one more time.... much better than my own....and ....again..many thanks..... ..Again fascinating, and I do wish this particular photo, film ? which may have been taken would have come to light.....Never know it may have, or it may yet.... Thanks.... Take care....no more hanging from building walls... B...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 QUOTE: I don't wish to divert this thread but since you have posted good quality grabs from Cancellare ..... There has been some talk in the past regarding a possible shot from the south knoll. Since you have been to Dealey Plaza and checked the place out, can you give a best estimation as to where a shooter would have located himself? Here's the area I believe has been referenced - in Murder in Dealey Plaza, etc. There was supposed to be a similar grate / drain structure located around this area, as the one on the opposite side. This was changed and some kind of electrical switch box was positioned here since. Note the proximity to the folks at the pick-up, and that back parking lot which went totally uncovered by the record. - lee The same area in this 1968 overhead crop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Forman Posted December 11, 2007 Author Share Posted December 11, 2007 Phenomenal Robin. Is the area where the storm drain used to be located at the area where the picket fence begins? In front of the blue car in the lot? The South Knoll drain does not appear on Roberdeau's plat either. Bernice - that's a much better doorway enhancement - Chris does nice work. Thanks. One can't help but wonder what a true scan of the original frames may yield as a possible improvement there. Maybe that's an Imperial Reflex camera at work there. - lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Forman Posted December 12, 2007 Author Share Posted December 12, 2007 (edited) 2004 - obscured view from Electrical service at top of underpass on south side of Dealey Plaza. If I follow MIDP, then this was the location of the storm grate which would correspond with it's twin on the north side and communicate eventually to Trinity River. I would very much like to fix this location - too bad I didn't do a better job with the photos - I know I have video, just no easy way to transfer. What is required here is a separate thread and study of the South knoll IMO. - lee Edited December 12, 2007 by Lee Forman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 South Knoll materials are scattered here and there on this Forum, much under Plumlee. FWIW, Tom Wilson said he saw a gun in a car in the S. Knoll parkinglot. I don't see where you say the sewer opening was on the 1968 photo - can someone put an arrow on the photo. Wouldn't that angle have been a difficult to impossible shot?! By the way, for 3D modeling of the Plaza, has anyone seen http://jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/models.htm To the contrary, Peter. From the south knoll, the car is coming directly toward a gunman. The drain opening was identical to the north drain, but has been covered with asphalt. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 South Knoll materials are scattered here and there on this Forum, much under Plumlee. FWIW, Tom Wilson said he saw a gun in a car in the S. Knoll parkinglot. I don't see where you say the sewer opening was on the 1968 photo - can someone put an arrow on the photo. Wouldn't that angle have been a difficult to impossible shot?! By the way, for 3D modeling of the Plaza, has anyone seen http://jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/models.htm To the contrary, Peter. From the south knoll, the car is coming directly toward a gunman. The drain opening was identical to the north drain, but has been covered with asphalt. Jack My mistake in not being more clear. I meant the S. Knoll sewer would be the difficult shot. No, from inside or beside the car would not. Sorry. Peter....we are not talking about a CURB sewer opening. The "sewer" opening under discussion is at the south end of the triple underpass bridge. On the north knoll it is the same location of the steampipe and railroad switch box on the railroad level. At curb level, they are more properly called STORM DRAINS than sewers. At the upperlevel it was an ACCESS TO THE SEWER PIPES, not a drain. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Forman Posted December 12, 2007 Author Share Posted December 12, 2007 Aerial photos of the underpass taken that day and the next show there was NO storm drain on the south end of the underpass; therefore, there was no shooter there, since the whole area was visible to the railroad men and cops nearer the north end. As per Gary Mack. I plan to go back to MIDP and reread the section in question. I had not heard about a gun having been seen in a car in the South Knoll parking lot. We should look to revive one of these threads... South Knoll; Ballistics, Shot Trajectories Steping out of line with the South Knoll South knoll shooter in Cancellare? One reason that the South Knoll is a focus at all is based upon the claim made by Tosh Plumlee that a round whizzed over his head, and that he was in Dealey Plaza and on the south side at the time of the motorcade's passing. It's not my intention to bash Tosh, but among other things, he related that he had passed the 'man' at the pick-up, who yelled something after him. He failed to mention that there were 2 individuals here, plus a driver - as per this thread. I have not been able to locate Tosh in any of the photos - that doesn't mean he wasn't there - however the recent faking of his own death weakens his credibility in my very firm opinion. Another reason that the South Knoll is considered is based upon a theory that the shot through the throat was taken through the windshield [and glass fragments that may have caused the wound to the throat, or smaller wounds in the face that had to be plugged during embalming]. Al Carrier maintained that it is possible - and I agree -- So is surviving a jump from an airplane without a parachute - possible. The examples he provided showed holes the size of golf balls with considerable splintering. I still am very reluctant to accept this theory. As per the post I made someplace before, WerBell's training camp provided the technique for a shot through the windshield - it was taken at point blank range and at an angle to the glass. I can't see any professional attempting a shot from 100+ yards through a windshield on 11/22/63. There would be the risk of a deflection, the target could have appeared distorted due to the glass, there would be a possible reflection, etc. Plus wouldn't one assume that it was bulletproof if they didn't know otherwise? Efforts to demonstrate a 'spiral hole' in the windshield - both in the Altgens and the Zapruder, are piss poor IMO. The through-and-through hole through the windshield seen by witnesses was in all likelihood the result of a shot that came from behind the Lincoln - much like the dent to the chrome. The big question that needs to be answered is: Was there an opening for to the sewers in this south knoll / top of underpass location or not? - lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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