New LBJ Tape supports that RFK suspected LBJ

[Pat Speer]

Max Holland, historian, has for the moment at least, obscured Max Holland, single-assassin theorist. In a new article on his website. Washington Decoded, he writes of a tape recently released by the LBJ Library. This tape is between LBJ and his most-trusted adviser. Abe Fortas. In this tape, recorded January 11, 1967, just before the autopsy doctors were rounded up to re-interpret the medical evidence, LBJ discusses the Kennedy assassination, and his belief that Bobby Kennedy is behind Edward Epstein, Mark Lane, etc. and the growing pressure from the media to re-open the investigation. At one point, he even suggests that if it weren't for Warren, Bobby would have had him indicted. To me, this supports the thesis, which I believe was supported by Talbot's book as well, that LBJ thought. rightly or wrongly, that Bobby suspected him of killing JFK, and was out to get him. Now, this may have been his paranoia at work. On the other hand, it may have been a guilty conscience. In either case, NO history of the 1960s can be accurate without reporting this mutual mistrust. Furthermore, NO history of the assassination plots on Castro, and the theory they were ordered by Bobby and backfired on JFK, is complete without noting that this was first pushed by Drew Pearson after meeting with LBJ during a period LBJ thought Bobby was out to get him and blame the killing on him, and that Pearson's column was published the day after Bobby spoke out against Vietnam.

http://www.washingtondecoded.com/

[William Kelly]

Max Holland, historian, has for the moment at least, obscured Max Holland, single-assassin theorist. In a new article on his website. Washington Decoded, he writes of a tape recently released by the LBJ Library. This tape is between LBJ and his most-trusted adviser. Abe Fortas. In this tape, recorded January 11, 1967, just before the autopsy doctors were rounded up to re-interpret the medical evidence, LBJ discusses the Kennedy assassination, and his belief that Bobby Kennedy is behind Edward Epstein, Mark Lane, etc. and the growing pressure from the media to re-open the investigation. At one point, he even suggests that if it weren't for Warren, Bobby would have had him indicted. To me, this supports the thesis, which I believe was supported by Talbot's book as well, that LBJ thought. rightly or wrongly, that Bobby suspected him of killing JFK, and was out to get him. Now, this may have been his paranoia at work. On the other hand, it may have been a guilty conscience. In either case, NO history of the 1960s can be accurate without reporting this mutual mistrust. Furthermore, NO history of the assassination plots on Castro, and the theory they were ordered by Bobby and backfired on JFK, is complete without noting that this was first pushed by Drew Pearson after meeting with LBJ during a period LBJ thought Bobby was out to get him and blame the killing on him, and that Pearson's column was published the day after Bobby spoke out against Vietnam.

http://www.washingtondecoded.com/

Hi Pat,

I received, a few days ago, a cell phone alert from my associate in DC John Judge, that the C-SPAN RADIO was airing these tapes, and that among them was a call from LBJ to Attorney General Clark - re: Garrison/Cuba Castro learing of RFK plot to kill Castro and Castro turning LHO to kill JFK in response - the cover story. According to these tapes, and LBJ - the source of this is Morgan, Esq./Hoffa/Rosselli et al.

Judge said that the tapes should be available over CSPAN web site anytime, but I haven't checked it out yet.

This story has yet to play out.

Stay tuned.

BK

[Pat Speer]

Interesting development, but we've had so MANY such 'interesting' developments - they interest our small band of researchers and a few intellectuals - but never make an impact on the Society, at large due to a variety of factors we could all expound upon. I'm quite sure RFK had LBJ on his short-list; but doubt he was at the top of it.

I think Bobby realized that many had to be involved - and he was correct on that...

I mean something like this should, if true, be front-page NYT, but they likely will never mention it and when someone includes it in their book, it will get a CIA-directed panning, if reviewed at all. The media is controlled by a variety of means and the public in shock and confusion.

Bill, I think the tape to which you refer has been available awhile, and is mentioned in the Holland's book. LBJ tells Clark about Morgan and Clark tells LBJ that Boggs said Garrison had implicated LBJ in the assassination plot. 2 days later, Garrison's star witness/suspect David Ferrie was found dead! Kind of makes you go hmmmm.

Peter. it is my understanding that Holland has a relationship with the CIA, so I doubt they'll direct that his upcoming book be panned. While the transcripts in Holland's book on the assassination tapes appear to be accurate, he spins them to support the lone nut cause when possible. It's no different with this tape--he asserts that LBJ's comment that Warren (and by logical extension the Warren Commission) prevented Bobby from having him indicted is mere "hyperbole" (Like he knows LBJ's soul?) As a result, I suspect that the CIA, if they even have a tactic these days, it is to let all new developments be "spun" by their favorite historians.

Of course Peter is correct in that no TV network will allow anyone to point out that two days after Clark told LBJ that Garrison's investigation was heading in his direction Garrison's investigation was knocked off track by an unforeseen "{act of God."

[John Simkin]

Max Holland, historian, has for the moment at least, obscured Max Holland, single-assassin theorist. In a new article on his website. Washington Decoded, he writes of a tape recently released by the LBJ Library. This tape is between LBJ and his most-trusted adviser. Abe Fortas. In this tape, recorded January 11, 1967, just before the autopsy doctors were rounded up to re-interpret the medical evidence, LBJ discusses the Kennedy assassination, and his belief that Bobby Kennedy is behind Edward Epstein, Mark Lane, etc. and the growing pressure from the media to re-open the investigation. At one point, he even suggests that if it weren't for Warren, Bobby would have had him indicted. To me, this supports the thesis, which I believe was supported by Talbot's book as well, that LBJ thought. rightly or wrongly, that Bobby suspected him of killing JFK, and was out to get him. Now, this may have been his paranoia at work. On the other hand, it may have been a guilty conscience. In either case, NO history of the 1960s can be accurate without reporting this mutual mistrust. Furthermore, NO history of the assassination plots on Castro, and the theory they were ordered by Bobby and backfired on JFK, is complete without noting that this was first pushed by Drew Pearson after meeting with LBJ during a period LBJ thought Bobby was out to get him and blame the killing on him, and that Pearson's column was published the day after Bobby spoke out against Vietnam.

http://www.washingtondecoded.com/

When the LBJ tapes were originally released, 7% were kept back for reasons of "national security". It seems this tape falls into this category.

[Robert Howard]

Max Holland, historian, has for the moment at least, obscured Max Holland, single-assassin theorist. In a new article on his website. Washington Decoded, he writes of a tape recently released by the LBJ Library. This tape is between LBJ and his most-trusted adviser. Abe Fortas. In this tape, recorded January 11, 1967, just before the autopsy doctors were rounded up to re-interpret the medical evidence, LBJ discusses the Kennedy assassination, and his belief that Bobby Kennedy is behind Edward Epstein, Mark Lane, etc. and the growing pressure from the media to re-open the investigation. At one point, he even suggests that if it weren't for Warren, Bobby would have had him indicted. To me, this supports the thesis, which I believe was supported by Talbot's book as well, that LBJ thought. rightly or wrongly, that Bobby suspected him of killing JFK, and was out to get him. Now, this may have been his paranoia at work. On the other hand, it may have been a guilty conscience. In either case, NO history of the 1960s can be accurate without reporting this mutual mistrust. Furthermore, NO history of the assassination plots on Castro, and the theory they were ordered by Bobby and backfired on JFK, is complete without noting that this was first pushed by Drew Pearson after meeting with LBJ during a period LBJ thought Bobby was out to get him and blame the killing on him, and that Pearson's column was published the day after Bobby spoke out against Vietnam.

http://www.washingtondecoded.com/

When the LBJ tapes were originally released, 7% were kept back for reasons of "national security". It seems this tape falls into this category.

Savvy researchers will not be surprised, considering that there is a LBJ tape with a 14 and 1/2 minute gap, not unlike the very famous Nixon tape with the 18 minute gap.....of Watergate fame. Although it is purely idle speculation, 2 to 1 odds say the deleted subject matter is the same......

[Pat Speer]

While re-reading the October 66 transcripts mentioned by Holland in his article (where LBJ first mentions to Fortas that Bobby is behind the media's renewed interest in the assassination) I came across a note stating that the 11-15-66 LBJ/Fortas phone call was erased in its entirely. I suspect that this was the conversation where LBJ told Fortas more than we're allowed to know.

[Robert Howard]

Of course Peter is correct in that no TV network will allow anyone to point out that two days after Clark told LBJ that Garrison's investigation was heading in his direction Garrison's investigation was knocked off track by an unforeseen "{act of God.}"

Speaking of David Ferrie, a couple of weeks ago, I ran across as old an article as I have seen in quite some time.......it was entiltled The Garrison Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy written by William W. Turner...whom I have always admired a real savvy researcher......This article is as old as the hills, but there is something mentioned in the article that qualifies as a lead, in my opinion......

By the way, apparently the article ran in Ramparts Magazine but I am not certain as to the date, circa 1968-69 probably.......

On page 46, {of the magazine not the article}......Turner is detailing the account of David Ferrie's sojourn to Texas mentioning his Stinson monoplane was sitting at Lakefront Airport in unflyable condition.......Then I ran across this passage......"At Houston International Airport more information was gleaned. Air service personnel seemed to recall that in 1963 Ferrie had access to an airplane based in Houston. In this craft, the flight to Matamoros would take little more than an hour....."

I don't get excited about new allegations in the Kennedy assassination, so I certainly won't get worked up about this statement in an article almost forty years old......

But, William Turner did write the article.......Can anybody tell me if this him parroting a Garrison allegation, or what. It certainly wasn't mentioned in Rearview Mirror: Looking Back at the FBI the CIA and Other Tails. Sounds like a fair question to me.....

[Myra Bronstein]

Max Holland, historian, has for the moment at least, obscured Max Holland, single-assassin theorist. In a new article on his website. Washington Decoded, he writes of a tape recently released by the LBJ Library. This tape is between LBJ and his most-trusted adviser. Abe Fortas. In this tape, recorded January 11, 1967, just before the autopsy doctors were rounded up to re-interpret the medical evidence, LBJ discusses the Kennedy assassination, and his belief that Bobby Kennedy is behind Edward Epstein, Mark Lane, etc. and the growing pressure from the media to re-open the investigation. At one point, he even suggests that if it weren't for Warren, Bobby would have had him indicted. To me, this supports the thesis, which I believe was supported by Talbot's book as well, that LBJ thought. rightly or wrongly, that Bobby suspected him of killing JFK, and was out to get him. Now, this may have been his paranoia at work. On the other hand, it may have been a guilty conscience. In either case, NO history of the 1960s can be accurate without reporting this mutual mistrust. Furthermore, NO history of the assassination plots on Castro, and the theory they were ordered by Bobby and backfired on JFK, is complete without noting that this was first pushed by Drew Pearson after meeting with LBJ during a period LBJ thought Bobby was out to get him and blame the killing on him, and that Pearson's column was published the day after Bobby spoke out against Vietnam.

http://www.washingtondecoded.com/

When the LBJ tapes were originally released, 7% were kept back for reasons of "national security". It seems this tape falls into this category.

Savvy researchers will not be surprised, considering that there is a LBJ tape with a 14 and 1/2 minute gap, not unlike the very famous Nixon tape with the 18 minute gap.....of Watergate fame. Although it is purely idle speculation, 2 to 1 odds say the deleted subject matter is the same......

Robert,

Do you know the date of the tape with the 14.5 minute gap?

Thanks.

[William Kelly]

Max Holland, historian, has for the moment at least, obscured Max Holland, single-assassin theorist. In a new article on his website. Washington Decoded, he writes of a tape recently released by the LBJ Library. This tape is between LBJ and his most-trusted adviser. Abe Fortas. In this tape, recorded January 11, 1967, just before the autopsy doctors were rounded up to re-interpret the medical evidence, LBJ discusses the Kennedy assassination, and his belief that Bobby Kennedy is behind Edward Epstein, Mark Lane, etc. and the growing pressure from the media to re-open the investigation. At one point, he even suggests that if it weren't for Warren, Bobby would have had him indicted. To me, this supports the thesis, which I believe was supported by Talbot's book as well, that LBJ thought. rightly or wrongly, that Bobby suspected him of killing JFK, and was out to get him. Now, this may have been his paranoia at work. On the other hand, it may have been a guilty conscience. In either case, NO history of the 1960s can be accurate without reporting this mutual mistrust. Furthermore, NO history of the assassination plots on Castro, and the theory they were ordered by Bobby and backfired on JFK, is complete without noting that this was first pushed by Drew Pearson after meeting with LBJ during a period LBJ thought Bobby was out to get him and blame the killing on him, and that Pearson's column was published the day after Bobby spoke out against Vietnam.

http://www.washingtondecoded.com/

When the LBJ tapes were originally released, 7% were kept back for reasons of "national security". It seems this tape falls into this category.

Savvy researchers will not be surprised, considering that there is a LBJ tape with a 14 and 1/2 minute gap, not unlike the very famous Nixon tape with the 18 minute gap.....of Watergate fame. Although it is purely idle speculation, 2 to 1 odds say the deleted subject matter is the same......

Robert,

Do you know the date of the tape with the 14.5 minute gap?

Thanks.

And many thanks to Rex for putting it so, and for everything he does....

http://www.history-matters.com/essays/fram...enMinuteGap.htm

http://www.history-matters.com/essays/fram...eGap_Update.htm

The combined press of the Communist conspiracy "evidence" is presumably what induced such men as Chief Justice Earl Warren and Robert Kennedy to knowingly engage in or allow a cover-up. This is not to say that they necessarily believed in a Communist conspiracy, only that they knew that the alternative to the lone gunman theory would inevitably be a powerful effort to pin the assassination on foreign sources. That much of the evidence for the supposed Communist conspiracy was directly tied into extremely sensitive channels completely ruled out the possibility of a public airing of the actual evidence, whether the nation was capable of such a public airing or not. Instead, "wise men" decided to bury their knowledge or suspicions of what might really have happened on November 22, 1963.....

....And what if the setup of Oswald included a plan for his death on that fateful Friday on the streets of Dallas? Did the Kennedy murder plot include a plan to then invade Cuba, once evidence linking the dead "assassin" to Castro surfaced? ....

....If so, the continuing quest to dredge up the truth of President Kennedy's murder is an important if maligned task. The study of this matter shows convincingly (at least to some of us) the power of the government to suppress truths which are highly important to the functioning of our nation and our world. It was possible in 1963 to plot the murder of a President and possibly to plan for that act to kick off a war, and further to ensure that national leaders would cooperate to bury the affair for the good of the country. If the nation remains incapable 40 years later of facing up to the fact that this happened once, what makes the possibility of recurrence any less real now?.....

...But history has shown that national secrecy carries great costs, perhaps too great for a free society. If we cannot, four decades after the fact, admit the simplest facts about the breakdown of the democratic system that occurred in 1963, how can we judge what powers to cede to those who rule the country today?

[Wim Dankbaar]

Pat Speer, I would like to introduce you te someone regarding your excellent work on exposing Baden's flaws and misleadings. You can explain it better than I can.

Please email me at dank@xs4all.nl

Wim

[Robert Howard]

Myra Bronstein wrote:

Robert,

Do you know the date of the tape with the 14.5 minute gap?

Thanks.

Here is the link, at the time I posted, I didn't recall that the author was none other than.......Rex Bradford....

http://www.historymatters.com/essays/frame...enMinuteGap.htm