Antti Hynonen Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Attached something I have been working on obtaining recently. These are the previously unpublished visitor cards of Lee Oswald from Helsinki from 1959. These were filled in by Lee and the authorities in Finland in October 1959 while he was traveling through Helsinki on his way to Moscow, the USSR back then. When Lee was in Helsinki in 1959, he stayed at two different hotels. As per Finnish law he was required to fill in one of these "visitor cards" for each stay. For some reason there are 3 cards, one seems to be written by the Finnish authorities (at a later date) and is a translation into Finnish. The Finnish "Suojelupoliisi" or FBI still has these original cards. I have attempted to get copies of the somplete cards but have been unsuccessful. I just spoke to the division head of the department in charge of this material earlier this week, and he explained it would require a full 60 years from the time they were filled in, until they can be published. They will therefore become public information in October 2019. An exception, permitting early publication, would be a book etc. of some major significance, for which they may allow the early publication of these. Exceptionally, last Sunday, the Helsinki Newspaper, "Helsingin Sanomat" published sections of these Oswald cards. Unfortunately the newspaper did not release them in full. I have been in touch with the reporter in charge of the article, but she said she can not give me copies, unless the authorities agree to give them to me. They did not. Enclosed are section of these 3 cards and a current day view from Oswald's hotel room window at the Klaus Kurki -hotel. It would be interesting to analyse the published sections of these to make sure all the information within them is accurate. It appears that in the Finnish card, under "Worth" as in Fort Worth Tx, someone has written: "alias Hidell". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Buell Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Attached something I have been working on obtaining recently. These are the previously unpublished visitor cards of Lee Oswald from Helsinki from 1959. These were filled in by Lee and the authorities in Finland in October 1959 while he was traveling through Helsinki on his way to Moscow, the USSR back then. When Lee was in Helsinki in 1959, he stayed at two different hotels. As per Finnish law he was required to fill in one of these "visitor cards" for each stay. For some reason there are 3 cards, one seems to be written by the Finnish authorities (at a later date) and is a translation into Finnish. The Finnish "Suojelupoliisi" or FBI still has these original cards. I have attempted to get copies of the somplete cards but have been unsuccessful. I just spoke to the division head of the department in charge of this material earlier this week, and he explained it would require a full 60 years from the time they were filled in, until they can be published. They will therefore become public information in October 2019. An exception, permitting early publication, would be a book etc. of some major significance, for which they may allow the early publication of these. If they released them to a Finnish newspaper, perhaps you could enlist the aid of an American reporter. If they were contacted by Jeff Morley or Joe Trento they might release them. Or tell them your writing a book? Exceptionally, last Sunday, the Helsinki Newspaper, "Helsingin Sanomat" published sections of these Oswald cards. Unfortunately the newspaper did not release them in full. I have been in touch with the reporter in charge of the article, but she said she can not give me copies, unless the authorities agree to give them to me. They did not. Enclosed are section of these 3 cards and a current day view from Oswald's hotel room window at the Klaus Kurki -hotel. It would be interesting to analyse the published sections of these to make sure all the information within them is accurate. It appears that in the Finnish card, under "Worth" as in Fort Worth Tx, someone has written: "alias Hidell". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Brown Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 Nice find. Thank you for posting them and good luck with your research. When I was at NARA II recently I was surprised to find that many of the documents surrounding LHO's trip to the USSR were still not available. That of course leaves open the possibility that there is something in them that we're not supposed to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antti Hynonen Posted February 25, 2008 Author Share Posted February 25, 2008 (edited) Gary Buell wrote:If they released them to a Finnish newspaper, perhaps you could enlist the aid of an American reporter. If they were contacted by Jeff Morley or Joe Trento they might release them. Or tell them your writing a book? Gary, This idea about saying that I am writing a book crossed my mind. However, I would prefer to not trick the police as when signing for the copies, I'd presumably have to state what book I'd be writing and when the expected release date would be occurring, and I'm not, how should I say it, the literary type. On another note, if there is a genuine author out there who would like to attempt to obtain these materials, please let me know of your interest and I can give you the name and numbers for the appropriate "Suojelupoliisi" -officials for getting in touch with them regarding an attempt to have these released early. I also had to downsize this attachment, but I do have an over 2 mb scan of the picture, which may be more legible than this attachment. So if interested, drop me a pm, with an e-mail address and I can send it to you. Antti Edited February 25, 2008 by Antti Hynonen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Simkin Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 This idea about saying that I am writing a book crossed my mind. However, I would prefer to not trick the police as when signing for the copies, I'd presumably have to state what book I'd be writing and when the expected release date would be occurring, and I'm not, how should I say it, the literary type. On another note, if there is a genuine author out there who would like to attempt to obtain these materials, please let me know of your interest and I can give you the name and numbers for the appropriate "Suojelupoliisi" -officials for getting in touch with them regarding an attempt to have these released early. I also had to downsize this attachment, but I do have an over 2 mb scan of the picture, which may be more legible than this attachment. So if interested, drop me a pm, with an e-mail address and I can send it to you. Maybe you could say that you were working as a researcher for an author currently writing a book on the assassination. For example, I am sure Gerald McKnight would like to see copies of these documents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antti Hynonen Posted February 25, 2008 Author Share Posted February 25, 2008 Peter Lemkin View Member Profile Add as Friend Send Message Find Member's Topics Find Member's Posts Feb 23 2008, 12:20 PM IP: 213.194.212.135 | Post #2 | Super Member Group: Members Posts: 3074 Joined: 9-December 04 From: Europe Member No.: 2082 Warn: (10%) QUOTE(Antti Hynonen @ Feb 23 2008, 12:03 PM) Attached something I have been working on obtaining recently. These are the previously unpublished visitor cards of Lee Oswald from Helsinki from 1959. These were filled in by Lee and the authorities in Finland in October 1959 while he was traveling through Helsinki on his way to Moscow, the USSR back then. When Lee was in Helsinki in 1959, he stayed at two different hotels. As per Finnish law he was required to fill in one of these "visitor cards" for each stay. For some reason there are 3 cards, one seems to be written by the Finnish authorities (at a later date) and is a translation into Finnish. The Finnish "Suojelupoliisi" or FBI still has these original cards. I have attempted to get copies of the somplete cards but have been unsuccessful. I just spoke to the division head of the department in charge of this material earlier this week, and he explained it would require a full 60 years from the time they were filled in, until they can be published. They will therefore become public information in October 2019. An exception, permitting early publication, would be a book etc. of some major significance, for which they may allow the early publication of these. Exceptionally, last Sunday, the Helsinki Newspaper, "Helsingin Sanomat" published sections of these Oswald cards. Unfortunately the newspaper did not release them in full. I have been in touch with the reporter in charge of the article, but she said she can not give me copies, unless the authorities agree to give them to me. They did not. Enclosed are section of these 3 cards and a current day view from Oswald's hotel room window at the Klaus Kurki -hotel. It would be interesting to analyse the published sections of these to make sure all the information within them is accurate. It appears that in the Finnish card, under "Worth" as in Fort Worth Tx, someone has written: "alias Hidell". Good finds. The alias Hidell is sensational! Do the signitures match those of Oswald? I would love to know if the Finnish Secret Service at the time had a file that still exists.....it's your 'turf'.....good luck.... Peter, Yes, I believe this 3rd card proves that there was/is a file by the Finnish officials on LHO. However, these cards may well be the extent of the file. I suspect the addition of "alias Hidell" has been added after 11/22/1963. Other interesting legible notes here are, the one that states that Lee took (apparently the train) from Helsinki to "Vainikkala" and then on to Moscow. Vainikkala being the border town on the Finnish side just before entering Russia. This notation therefore means that the individual they have this "file" on did have his movements tracked at some point. My guess being in 1963 and 1964 during the WC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antti Hynonen Posted February 25, 2008 Author Share Posted February 25, 2008 John Simkin View Member Profile Remove Friend Send Message Find Member's Topics Find Member's Posts Today, 07:13 AM IP: Private | Post #6 | Super Member Group: Admin Posts: 11704 Joined: 16-December 03 From: Worthing, Sussex Member No.: 7 QUOTE(Antti Hynonen @ Feb 25 2008, 07:07 AM) This idea about saying that I am writing a book crossed my mind. However, I would prefer to not trick the police as when signing for the copies, I'd presumably have to state what book I'd be writing and when the expected release date would be occurring, and I'm not, how should I say it, the literary type. On another note, if there is a genuine author out there who would like to attempt to obtain these materials, please let me know of your interest and I can give you the name and numbers for the appropriate "Suojelupoliisi" -officials for getting in touch with them regarding an attempt to have these released early. I also had to downsize this attachment, but I do have an over 2 mb scan of the picture, which may be more legible than this attachment. So if interested, drop me a pm, with an e-mail address and I can send it to you. Maybe you could say that you were working as a researcher for an author currently writing a book on the assassination. For example, I am sure Gerald McKnight would like to see copies of these documents. John, I'd have to think about that and what to say. Obviously, as I have already spoken to them (him), he will recall who I am and think it funny that I didn't bring the book/author issue up the first time I bothered him..... Mr. Simola seems to be a busy man, and I had to try a few times in order to get to talk to him. I got lucky 2 days after I managed to speak with his assistant and left a message for him regarding these documents. I'll think about it. Of course it would be easier, if there was in fact a book being written by someone who'd have a genuine interest in these documents. Perhaps a 2nd or 3rd edition? Larry Hancock or Gerald McKnight do spring to mind. I'd be willing to forward a letter with a full translation from either one to the "Suojelupoliisi" and act as an intermediary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Root Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 (edited) Once again outstanding work Antti In May of this year I obtained a great deal of information written by members of the OSS/SI team in Stockholm. A great deal of the material was written in June of 1959 and seems to be an attempt by these former asscociates to gather information about WWII contacts within Finland that could still be operational assets that could be called upon at that time. My question would be are there any names attached to the Finsish files that suggest who was responsible for collecting data on Oswald either as he was entering Russia or during the time of the investigation into the assassination of JFK? Any information as to the WWII exploits of any of these people who may have been monitoring the movements of Oswald or who may have been put into the position of a post assassination investigation? Jim Root Edited October 14, 2008 by Jim Root Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antti Hynonen Posted October 15, 2008 Author Share Posted October 15, 2008 Jim, Thanks for your comments. I have to admit that this article is something I happened to come across, and needless to say it "caught my eye". So, there was little research done on my part. I do wish I had more time to do actual research, and that I could take a few days off to study the newspapers microfilmed at the Royal library in Stockholm as we discussed. Unfortunately, I just don't have the time. Sorry, I don't know if Oswald was observed or followed in Helsinki in October of 1959. The document I enclosed here is a card which must be filled in by each occupant staying in a hotel in Finland. Oswald stayed in two different hotels, so he should have filled out two cards. I tried to obtain copies of the complete cards, but neither the newspaper nor the "Suojelupoliisi" would give me copies. The Chief I spoke to, said that the requirement is to wait 60 years before such cards can be released. That would be in October of 2019, the exception is if someone is writing a book or has some other similar/valid reason to get copies of these. He made it clear, these documents would not be released prior to 2019 unless there is a very good reason to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Roy Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 I think I see the alias Hidell bit on the card on the lower right. Too bad the whole card can't be seen. Frankly, the handwriting of that phrase looks very much like the other visible writing on the card: The slant, and especially the H on Hidell (similar to Harvey). Maybe the whole card was filled out post-11/22/63. If it wasn't, it suggests that Oswald was using the Hidell name in 1959. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 (edited) Jim,Thanks for your comments. I have to admit that this article is something I happened to come across, and needless to say it "caught my eye". So, there was little research done on my part. I do wish I had more time to do actual research, and that I could take a few days off to study the newspapers microfilmed at the Royal library in Stockholm as we discussed. Unfortunately, I just don't have the time. Sorry, I don't know if Oswald was observed or followed in Helsinki in October of 1959. The document I enclosed here is a card which must be filled in by each occupant staying in a hotel in Finland. Oswald stayed in two different hotels, so he should have filled out two cards. I tried to obtain copies of the complete cards, but neither the newspaper nor the "Suojelupoliisi" would give me copies. The Chief I spoke to, said that the requirement is to wait 60 years before such cards can be released. That would be in October of 2019, the exception is if someone is writing a book or has some other similar/valid reason to get copies of these. He made it clear, these documents would not be released prior to 2019 unless there is a very good reason to do so. Antii, Can you ask the government of Finland if they replied to the US Assassinations Records Review Board for any records or copies of assassination related records they had in their possession. I would think that would have been a good reason to do so. Also am curious as to Stephen Roy's suggestion that the record indicates Oswald used the Hidell alias then. BK Edited October 15, 2008 by William Kelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antti Hynonen Posted October 16, 2008 Author Share Posted October 16, 2008 (edited) Hi Bill, I don't know who to contact to see if they have been in contact with the ARRB. The person I spoke with is one of the chiefs in charge of records of the "Suojelupoliisi", the Finnish security police. He gave permission to the local newspaper here in Helsinki to obtain copies of these files/cards. I doubt he'd even know what the ARRB is. I think chances for locating a contact between the Finnish authorities and ARRB would be to find a name or contact office within ARRB records. The Finnish Security Police: http://www.poliisi.fi/poliisi/supo/home.nsf/pages/indexeng Stephen, I suspect the Finnish authorities caught on to the alias Hidell in 1963 after Oswald's arrest, murder and after the time the WC was initiated. I'm quite sure the markings regarding the alias Hidell have been inscribed by the Finnish authorities whilst they have searched for any "Hidell" data within other such cards or any other records they might have come across. I'm sure we'll get some more information on this once these documents are released in full. That is we have to sit and wait another 11 years. Had Oswald placed two different names onto his card, I'm sure the hotel staff would have asked him whether he is Oswald or Hidell, and perhaps asked him to prove his identity with a passport. Antti Edited October 16, 2008 by Antti Hynonen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Roy Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Hi Bill,I don't know who to contact to see if they have been in contact with the ARRB. The person I spoke with is one of the chiefs in charge of records of the "Suojelupoliisi", the Finnish security police. He gave permission to the local newspaper here in Helsinki to obtain copies of these files/cards. I doubt he'd even know what the ARRB is. I think chances for locating a contact between the Finnish authorities and ARRB would be to find a name or contact office within ARRB records. The Finnish Security Police: http://www.poliisi.fi/poliisi/supo/home.nsf/pages/indexeng Stephen, I suspect the Finnish authorities caught on to the alias Hidell in 1963 after Oswald's arrest, murder and after the time the WC was initiated. I'm quite sure the markings regarding the alias Hidell have been inscribed by the Finnish authorities whilst they have searched for any "Hidell" data within other such cards or any other records they might have come across. I'm sure we'll get some more information on this once these documents are released in full. That is we have to sit and wait another 11 years. Had Oswald placed two different names onto his card, I'm sure the hotel staff would have asked him whether he is Oswald or Hidell, and perhaps asked him to prove his identity with a passport. Antti That's what I'm presuming, but one cannot be sure from the small portion of the card visible in the picture. It would make sense that the Finnish authorities added the name to the card after the assassination. However, as I noted, the Hidell handwriting looks very similar to some of the other handwriting on the same form. If they match, and if the whole card was filled out after the authorities spoke with US authorities, no problem. But if the rest of the card was filled out in 1959, one would not expect a later addition to match so closely. That's why I'd like to see a higher resolution image of the whole card, and know the story of when it was made. It is not a huge deal if Oswald used the Hidell name in 1959. I think the evidence is pretty strong that he used the name at a later time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antti Hynonen Posted October 20, 2008 Author Share Posted October 20, 2008 Stephen Roy Posted Oct 16 2008, 05:44 PM That's what I'm presuming, but one cannot be sure from the small portion of the card visible in the picture. It would make sense that the Finnish authorities added the name to the card after the assassination. However, as I noted, the Hidell handwriting looks very similar to some of the other handwriting on the same form. If they match, and if the whole card was filled out after the authorities spoke with US authorities, no problem. But if the rest of the card was filled out in 1959, one would not expect a later addition to match so closely. That's why I'd like to see a higher resolution image of the whole card, and know the story of when it was made. It is not a huge deal if Oswald used the Hidell name in 1959. I think the evidence is pretty strong that he used the name at a later time. Hi Stephen, The handwriting is the same on the form because in my opinion it is the translation of Oswald's original English writing into Finnish. In the middle of the form which we are discussing, it says "Opisk" which is short for "Opiskelija" Student, which he had listed as his profession. Note the typo in Harvey, ie. "Harvy". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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