The Irish say NO to gobbledygook

[J. Raymond Carroll]

That sadly, is the only conclusion that can be logically concluded.

President Sarkozy of France said yesterday: “I would like to travel to Ireland to find out under what conditions we could minimise this problem [of Irish rejection].”

Well Cead Mile Failte, Monsiuer. I hope you brought your lovely missus.

You'll have to sit down there by the fire and stay awhile, if you want to hear what ails us about this oul' treaty business. And you might want to stop off in London on your way home and find out what is ailing the House of Lords, and why they are suddenly in league with the Sinn Feiners.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/poli...icle4152652.ece

[John Simkin]

Well I'm glad you two finally kissed and made up.

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank the Irish people for doing what I was denied the opportunity to do by our incumbent Government (I'm doing Brown an injustice: it was Blair who recanted his promise of a referendum). Thank you.

Where does this leave the EU Treaty? How can the British Government, indeed any government, possibly still push ahead with ratification, given that it requires the full consent of ALL member states? When will the people we elect to govern realise that they are in power to represent the will of the people who put them there, not to write themselves into history?

I agree. I expect David Davies to raise this issue of a referendum in his election campaign. Brown and Blair knew that they would always lose a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty.

[John Geraghty]

Elements of the Irish government seem to be pushing the line that a large proportion of the NO voters did so because they feared the creation of a European army under the treaty. Of course, the treaty had absolutely nothing to do with this and the government are portraying a portion of the electorate as somehow idiotic and not fully informed. I voted no because the terms of the treaty were undemocratic, as was the voting method for the majority of the EU. I also saw it as a furthering of globalisation and the creation of a more tightly run protection racket.

Lucinda Creighton, of the Fine Gael party, made the characterisation that middle class voters did their job and voted no, whereas the working class voted no for reasons of racism, xenophobia etc.

I am usually fairly thankful for the quality of Ireland's media and journalism in comparison with other nations, but the reaction from the national newspapers and broadcasters put a very sour taste in my mouth. This was a referendum, not an election, but we have been lumped into the 'YES' and 'NO' sides. The 'NO' campaign was supposedly led by the group 'Libertas', a foundation funded by American businessmen who fear a powerful centralised Europe. I voted not because I have party loyalty, or because I was swayed by propaganda from either side, but because I disagree with the direction of the EU.

Ireland is now being asked to explain itself. To explain how we let democracy get in the way of economic 'progress'. This debacle has shown me the level of contempt around Europe for democracy and the elites respect for the will of the people. This result also has serious implications for the manner in which the EU treats smaller countries over larger ones. France and the Netherlands rejected the EU constitution, and it was then revised into the Lisbon treaty. Now that Ireland has rejected it, we are seeing a different reaction.

John

[Guest David Guyatt]

That sadly, is the only conclusion that can be logically concluded.

President Sarkozy of France said yesterday: “I would like to travel to Ireland to find out under what conditions we could minimise this problem [of Irish rejection].”

Well Cead Mile Failte, Monsiuer. I hope you brought your lovely missus.

You'll have to sit down there by the fire and stay awhile, if you want to hear what ails us about this oul' treaty business. And you might want to stop off in London on your way home and find out what is ailing the House of Lords, and why they are suddenly in league with the Sinn Feiners.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/poli...icle4152652.ece

If Sarkozy does travel to Ireland, I'd like to fill the void left by him and his delectable missus and travel to France to follow the wine trail, if that's alright?

I'm sure the dark brew and traditional stew of Ireland is delicious, but Petrus and nouveau cuisine it ain't.

Beaune here I come...

[J. Raymond Carroll]

I'm sure the dark brew and traditional stew of Ireland is delicious, but Petrus and nouveau cuisine it ain't.

Beaune here I come...

But isn't it true that the English like to sit for days on end watching cricket and eating CUCUMBER sandwiches?

[Christopher Hall]

Elements of the Irish government seem to be pushing the line that a large proportion of the NO voters did so because they feared the creation of a European army under the treaty. Of course, the treaty had absolutely nothing to do with this and the government are portraying a portion of the electorate as somehow idiotic and not fully informed. I voted no because the terms of the treaty were undemocratic, as was the voting method for the majority of the EU. I also saw it as a furthering of globalisation and the creation of a more tightly run protection racket.

Lucinda Creighton, of the Fine Gael party, made the characterisation that middle class voters did their job and voted no, whereas the working class voted no for reasons of racism, xenophobia etc.

I am usually fairly thankful for the quality of Ireland's media and journalism in comparison with other nations, but the reaction from the national newspapers and broadcasters put a very sour taste in my mouth. This was a referendum, not an election, but we have been lumped into the 'YES' and 'NO' sides. The 'NO' campaign was supposedly led by the group 'Libertas', a foundation funded by American businessmen who fear a powerful centralised Europe. I voted not because I have party loyalty, or because I was swayed by propaganda from either side, but because I disagree with the direction of the EU.

Ireland is now being asked to explain itself. To explain how we let democracy get in the way of economic 'progress'. This debacle has shown me the level of contempt around Europe for democracy and the elites respect for the will of the people. This result also has serious implications for the manner in which the EU treats smaller countries over larger ones. France and the Netherlands rejected the EU constitution, and it was then revised into the Lisbon treaty. Now that Ireland has rejected it, we are seeing a different reaction.

John

I appreciate your insights, John.

They are more educated than mine, and you are truly an affected party, while I am an observer.

I admire your country's expression of the importance of national sovereignty and resistance to the EU, which fell on its own sword when the French people declined to ratify the proposed Constitution a few years ago (after Dominique DeVillipain had analogized himself to Thomas Jefferson in crafting the 400+ page EU Constitution.

I wish that the US would close all of its European military bases and deploy the troops to our own borders.

Congrats again on your country's success in this matter.

[Dave Greer]

Well I'm glad you two finally kissed and made up.

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank the Irish people for doing what I was denied the opportunity to do by our incumbent Government (I'm doing Brown an injustice: it was Blair who recanted his promise of a referendum). Thank you.

Where does this leave the EU Treaty? How can the British Government, indeed any government, possibly still push ahead with ratification, given that it requires the full consent of ALL member states? When will the people we elect to govern realise that they are in power to represent the will of the people who put them there, not to write themselves into history?

I agree. I expect David Davies to raise this issue of a referendum in his election campaign. Brown and Blair knew that they would always lose a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty.

Quite right that he should. The issue he's running on is the erosion of personal freedoms. What better demonstration of the erosion of those freedoms than the Government's reneging on it's promised referendum on this fundamental issue, purely to ensure the British people didn't skewer a policitian's idea of Euro-topia?

[J. Raymond Carroll]

Ireland is now being asked to explain itself.

John

Back in February, at the very beginning of the Lisbon campaign, many Irish people (especially women) got their Irish up over this report:

Wednesday February 20, 2008 16:29author by indyjourno Report this post to the editors

Sinn Féin Dublin MEP Mary Lou Mc Donald has this afternoon expressed her

"anger and incredulity" over the European Parliaments vote today NOT to

respect the result of the Lisbon Treaty referendum.

By a huge majority (499 to 129) European MEPs, including Labour's Proinsias

De Rossa voted against the motion ‘The European Parliament undertakes to

respect the outcome of the referendum in Ireland’.

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/86337

The European parliament decided in advance that Ireland's decision would not count.

Flattery will get you everywhere.

[Guest David Guyatt]

I'm sure the dark brew and traditional stew of Ireland is delicious, but Petrus and nouveau cuisine it ain't.

Beaune here I come...

But isn't it true that the English like to sit for days on end watching cricket and eating CUCUMBER sandwiches?

Now you're trying to divide my digestive loyalties... cucumber sandwiches and pale tea with too much milk consumed to the sound of leather hitting willow. What a treat.

Beaune here I come...

[Guest David Guyatt]

Well I'm glad you two finally kissed and made up.

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank the Irish people for doing what I was denied the opportunity to do by our incumbent Government (I'm doing Brown an injustice: it was Blair who recanted his promise of a referendum). Thank you.

Where does this leave the EU Treaty? How can the British Government, indeed any government, possibly still push ahead with ratification, given that it requires the full consent of ALL member states? When will the people we elect to govern realise that they are in power to represent the will of the people who put them there, not to write themselves into history?

I agree. I expect David Davies to raise this issue of a referendum in his election campaign. Brown and Blair knew that they would always lose a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty.

Quite right that he should. The issue he's running on is the erosion of personal freedoms. What better demonstration of the erosion of those freedoms than the Government's reneging on it's promised referendum on this fundamental issue, purely to ensure the British people didn't skewer a policitian's idea of Euro-topia?

Any news on Labour's reaction --- will they field a candidate; will they meekly front for Murdoch?

Presumably not fielding a Labour candidate will considerably defuse the issue and give the MSM the ruse it needs to shut down further debate?