Mark!-----Last Time

[Thomas H. Purvis]

And the pictorial answer is:

Tomorrows menu:

CE399

The missing fragment in CE840

[Thomas H. Purvis]

http://www.jfklancer.com/photos/Rifle_Bullets/index2.html

CE840

photo of 2 fragments found from underneath the left jump seat. Note: The FBI originally recovered three particles. In 1970, an independent researcher brought to the attention of the National Archives that one of the three fragments was missing. The Archives has been unable to locate it.

http://www.jfklancer.com/photos/Rifle_Bullets/index.html

Actually!

The "cone-shaped"; flat-based" uniform fragment of lead, which measures 4.5mm in width at the flat base and which weighed 0.9grain when FBI Agent Robert Frazier examined it and determined that it was "Poss Q-1" (Possibly from CE399/aka Q1)

Never made it to the National Archives!

The fragment of lead, which is the lead core of CE399 which was squeezed out the base of the bullet due to the external pressures exerted onto the bullet as it passed through the live oak tree limb, and subsequently sheared from the bullet base due to the base first impact of the bullet with the right transverse process of the C7 vertebrae, was in fact removed from the FBI Ballistics Laboratory by William Sullivan.

Never to be "officially" seen again!

[Mike Williams]

And the pictorial answer is:

Tomorrows menu:

CE399

The missing fragment in CE840

Tom,

Following right on along here, absorbing....One question that comes to mind. There were no traces of metalic residue on the shirt nor the tie. A lead fragment passing these areas rubbing against abrasive cloth should have left trace elements.

Now having said that, there does seem to be a constant that entry wounds show metalic residue and exit wounds have on very few occasions not shown such. The reason I have determined is that the projectile, or fragment there of would be "lubricated" by blood and tissue so as to not leave metalic residue.

Do you believe that this is the case in this instance?

I know this is all stuff that you have gone over many times, and I do appreciate your repeating information so as to catch me up on your thoughts regarding the shooting.

Mike

[Thomas H. Purvis]

http://www.jfklancer.com/photos/Rifle_Bullets/index2.html

CE840

photo of 2 fragments found from underneath the left jump seat. Note: The FBI originally recovered three particles. In 1970, an independent researcher brought to the attention of the National Archives that one of the three fragments was missing. The Archives has been unable to locate it.

http://www.jfklancer.com/photos/Rifle_Bullets/index.html

Actually!

The "cone-shaped"; flat-based" uniform fragment of lead, which measures 4.5mm in width at the flat base and which weighed 0.9grain when FBI Agent Robert Frazier examined it and determined that it was "Poss Q-1" (Possibly from CE399/aka Q1)

Never made it to the National Archives!

The fragment of lead, which is the lead core of CE399 which was squeezed out the base of the bullet due to the external pressures exerted onto the bullet as it passed through the live oak tree limb, and subsequently sheared from the bullet base due to the base first impact of the bullet with the right transverse process of the C7 vertebrae, was in fact removed from the FBI Ballistics Laboratory by William Sullivan.

Never to be "officially" seen again!

"There is no Magic!

However!

Politicians, not unlike Magicians, can make things disappear."

Tom Purvis

CE840 when the HSCA went to locate and examine this evidence.

Photo from the National Archives*

*Since Lancer does not seem to want to sufficiently share this information.

[Thomas H. Purvis]

And here is the 0.9 grain weight fragment from CE840 which was made to disappear from the FBI Ballistics Laboratory by William Sullivan.

For all things, there is a reason!

Usually quite simple reason, I might add!

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Since most have used toothpaste, the concept should not be that difficult.

[Thomas H. Purvis]

And the pictorial answer is:

Tomorrows menu:

CE399

The missing fragment in CE840

Tom,

Following right on along here, absorbing....One question that comes to mind. There were no traces of metalic residue on the shirt nor the tie. A lead fragment passing these areas rubbing against abrasive cloth should have left trace elements.

Now having said that, there does seem to be a constant that entry wounds show metalic residue and exit wounds have on very few occasions not shown such. The reason I have determined is that the projectile, or fragment there of would be "lubricated" by blood and tissue so as to not leave metalic residue.

Do you believe that this is the case in this instance?

I know this is all stuff that you have gone over many times, and I do appreciate your repeating information so as to catch me up on your thoughts regarding the shooting.

Mike

The conflicts regarding obfuscation of the examination of the closthing of JFK have received considerable discussion here.

FBI Agent Robert Frazier gave all testimony in regards to spectrographic examination of the clothing of JFK.

All of which is hearsay as he not only did not participate in this testing, but according to all from the Spectro Lab, was not qualified in any of this field.

FBI Agent Henry Heiberger conducted all spectrographic examination of the clothing of JFK.

As one of only two (apparantly) persons to have personally discussed this issue with Henry Heiberger, his statements to me have been clearly demonstrated to be in direct conflict with some of the known physical test results which the other party has secured from the National Archives.

As example:

Heiberger personally informed me that he conducted not testing of the damage to the shirt which is located near the front button hole. And in fact stated that he was unaware that such damage existed.

Yet! His purported testing results demonstrate that he tested this area and found nothing.

Likewise, Heiberger specifically stated to me that the tie contained an "abrasion" in which no fabric was missing. That he x-rayed the area and found metallic residue, with no further testing due to having been shipped out of town to examine "Oswald was Here" found written in chalk on the inside of an abandoned RR boxcar.

And, that any fabric that was "missing" from the tie must be where one of the other Agents in the Lab completed the removal and further testing of that area in which he had found the metallic residue by X-ray.

Yet!

First off, no other Agent from the spectro lab conducted any testing of JFK's clothing, other than Henry Heiberger.

Secondly, those test results, as located and presented by the other researcher, are in direct conflict with what Heiberger personally told me.

Since the Spectro test information which was recovered from the Archives appears to be the factual information, then I must assume that for whatever reason, Henry Heiberger fed me a line of BS, and sent me off into the netherland world of unreliable information.

Heiberger was far too specific in his statements and recollections for it to have been merely the dimentia of age.

The questions regarding physical damage to the shirt (anterior @ buttonhole) and the tie will no doubt remain an item of controversy as to whether or not this was in fact created by the exist of ANY projectile.

As to the potential "why?" that no metallic residue was left here by the exiting fragment (according to the test results of Heiberger), perhaps your solution holds part of the answer, as does that of Dr. Jones.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/jones_r.htm

Dr. JONES - The wound in the throat was probably no larger than a quarter of an inch in diameter. There appeared to be no powder burn present, although this could have been masked by the amount of blood that was on the head and neck, although there was no obvious, amount of powder present. There appeared to be a very minimal amount of disruption of interruption of the surrounding skin. There appeared to be relatively smooth edges around the wound, and if this occurred as a result of a missile, you would have probably thought it was a missile of very low velocity and probably could have been compatible with a bone fragment of either--probably exiting from the neck, but it was a very small, smooth wound.

=======================================================================

Other than that!--------Pretty much a dead end!

[Thomas H. Purvis]

And here is the 0.9 grain weight fragment from CE840 which was made to disappear from the FBI Ballistics Laboratory by William Sullivan.

For all things, there is a reason!

Usually quite simple reason, I might add!

And here is the 0.9 grain weight fragment from CE840 which was made to disappear from the FBI Ballistics Laboratory by William Sullivan.

For all things, there is a reason!

Usually quite simple reason, I might add!

============================================================

158.6 + 0.9 = 159.5 + 0.67 = 160.17 grains weight of CE399 accounted for.

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Bullet Weight Accountability!

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Mike:

Feel free to "jump in" at any time.

[Royce Bierma]

Bullet Weight Accountability!

Tom, is there a document indicating William Sullivan removed or had someone remove the bullet segment from the FBI ballistics laboratory? I'm wondering how you came to that conclusion. Not doubting you, just not aware of how the conclusion was reached.

Thanks.

Roy Bierma

[Mike Williams]

Mike:

Feel free to "jump in" at any time.

Tom,

That is some good food for thought! The only issue I have with this is the tree deflection, I would surely think that any interference by the tree would deflect in such a manner as to avoid hitting the target. But this is really a random event pattern, which means that it certainly COULD have happened. There is, as you well know, no predictability in a ricochet, or a deflection.

As I said this is some serious food for thought on this scenario.

One item that seems to be consistent in our ideas is that SOMETHING diminished the velocity of that bullet. Either tree limb, or it was just a short round to begin with.

I thought that I had read somewhere in the past, where you actually fired the MC through some limbs. What was the dispo of those tests? Primarily did you have a high instance of the copper jackets being separated from the core?

One thing is sure. That projectile struck JFK at about 400 fps, and 60 ft lbs of energy. I wonder how many folks realize that would have been far more painful than a full velocity impact, which would have given only a tiny fraction of that energy.

Mike

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Bullet Weight Accountability!

Tom, is there a document indicating William Sullivan removed or had someone remove the bullet segment from the FBI ballistics laboratory? I'm wondering how you came to that conclusion. Not doubting you, just not aware of how the conclusion was reached.

Thanks.

Roy Bierma

Since he was still living at last account:

Robert Frazier

1704 Oak Lane

McLean, VA 22101

Tel: 703-533-2877

Frazier may or may not discuss the issue. Nevertheless, he "told" us many things, without actually telling us.

And, yes! There is a document!

Not doubting you, just not aware of how the conclusion was reached.

It may not pay much to be "doubtful", but it certainly keeps one from looking completely foolish at times.

Thomas H./aka "Doubting" Thomas.

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Bullet Weight Accountability!

Tom, is there a document indicating William Sullivan removed or had someone remove the bullet segment from the FBI ballistics laboratory? I'm wondering how you came to that conclusion. Not doubting you, just not aware of how the conclusion was reached.

Thanks.

Roy Bierma

Since he was still living at last account:

Robert Frazier

1704 Oak Lane

McLean, VA 22101

Tel: 703-533-2877

Frazier may or may not discuss the issue. Nevertheless, he "told" us many things, without actually telling us.

And, yes! There is a document!

Not doubting you, just not aware of how the conclusion was reached.

It may not pay much to be "doubtful", but it certainly keeps one from looking completely foolish at times.

Thomas H./aka "Doubting" Thomas.

Not doubting you, just not aware of how the conclusion was reached.

Now! A truly "professional" doubter would have, as well as should have, asked exactly by what means one determined the width of the flat base of the cone-shaped; non-irregular lead fragment which disappeared.

Same Answer:

Frazier may or may not discuss the issue. Nevertheless, he "told" us many things, without actually telling us.

[Mike Williams]

Bullet Weight Accountability!

Tom, is there a document indicating William Sullivan removed or had someone remove the bullet segment from the FBI ballistics laboratory? I'm wondering how you came to that conclusion. Not doubting you, just not aware of how the conclusion was reached.

Thanks.

Roy Bierma

Since he was still living at last account:

Robert Frazier

1704 Oak Lane

McLean, VA 22101

Tel: 703-533-2877

Frazier may or may not discuss the issue. Nevertheless, he "told" us many things, without actually telling us.

And, yes! There is a document!

Not doubting you, just not aware of how the conclusion was reached.

It may not pay much to be "doubtful", but it certainly keeps one from looking completely foolish at times.

Thomas H./aka "Doubting" Thomas.

Not doubting you, just not aware of how the conclusion was reached.

Now! A truly "professional" doubter would have, as well as should have, asked exactly by what means one determined the width of the flat base of the cone-shaped; non-irregular lead fragment which disappeared.

Same Answer:

Frazier may or may not discuss the issue. Nevertheless, he "told" us many things, without actually telling us.

During this time in his testimony Frazier sure choses his words carefully!

Mike