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William Kelly
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When I hooked up with Shane O'Sullivan in Pittsburgh, he said he was moving on to a new subject - I think he said Sixties Radicals and their kids.

The week wasn't out when all of a sudden the man in the news is Bill Ayers, radical SDS Weatherman and former neighbor of a presidential candidate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Ayers

I too was a radical in the Sixties, and Education Reform was the primary issue that got me involved, though the Vietnam War also had something to do with it.

Like Ayers, Educational Reform of the stystem was an important part of the radical reformation of American politics in the Sixties and Seventies, and books like A.S. Neil's Summerhill, and The Pedagogy of the Oppressed, Schools Without Walls had a lot to do with it.

The idea that Bill Ayers has a negative impact on people, especially a presidential candidate, is pretty reactionary, as he eventually worked within and took over the system he had previously tried to violently overthrow.

Since the Republicans decided to make Ayers an issue, I thought he deserved his own thread.

BK

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When I hooked up with Shane O'Sullivan in Pittsburgh, he said he was moving on to a new subject - I think he said Sixties Radicals and their kids.

The week wasn't out when all of a sudden the man in the news is Bill Ayers, radical SDS Weatherman and former neighbor of a presidential candidate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Ayers

I too was a radical in the Sixties, and Education Reform was the primary issue that got me involved, though the Vietnam War also had something to do with it.

Like Ayers, Educational Reform of the stystem was an important part of the radical reformation of American politics in the Sixties and Seventies, and books like A.S. Neil's Summerhill, and The Pedagogy of the Oppressed, Schools Without Walls had a lot to do with it.

The idea that Bill Ayers has a negative impact on people, especially a presidential candidate, is pretty reactionary, as he eventually worked within and took over the system he had previously tried to violently overthrow.

Since the Republicans decided to make Ayers an issue, I thought he deserved his own thread.

BK

I also was radicalized by the Vietnam War in the Sixties. You are right to say that education reform became an important part of the movement. I was of the opinion that if we had a reformed education system we would not produce students who would be willing to risk their lives in imperialist wars. As you say, we were influenced by books such as Paulo Freire's The Pedagogy of the Oppressed and Neil Postman and Charles Weingartner's Teaching as a Subversive Activity.

I, like many of my friends, trained as teachers so that we could reform from within. We also became involved in publishing teaching materials that encouraged students to question the status quo. As far as the UK is concerned, we had a lot of success. For example, we campaigned for and got changes to the way that history was taught. This included questioning the traditional way the past is presented in schools. I am convinced that one of the main reasons why there was so much opposition to the Iraq War in the UK was because of the changes that took place in our educational system in the 1970s and 1980s.

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When I hooked up with Shane O'Sullivan in Pittsburgh, he said he was moving on to a new subject - I think he said Sixties Radicals and their kids.

The week wasn't out when all of a sudden the man in the news is Bill Ayers, radical SDS Weatherman and former neighbor of a presidential candidate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Ayers

I too was a radical in the Sixties, and Education Reform was the primary issue that got me involved, though the Vietnam War also had something to do with it.

Like Ayers, Educational Reform of the stystem was an important part of the radical reformation of American politics in the Sixties and Seventies, and books like A.S. Neil's Summerhill, and The Pedagogy of the Oppressed, Schools Without Walls had a lot to do with it.

The idea that Bill Ayers has a negative impact on people, especially a presidential candidate, is pretty reactionary, as he eventually worked within and took over the system he had previously tried to violently overthrow.

Since the Republicans decided to make Ayers an issue, I thought he deserved his own thread.

BK

Your post is a romantic and unreal characterization of Bill Ayers and the Weatherman terrorist. Ayers was the son of a wealthy businessman. His father was chairman and chief executive officer of Commonwealth Edison of Chicago, chairman of Northwestern University and of the Chicago Symphony. I've always considered him nothing more than an agent, a real jacobin terrorist.

Quote:

He(Ayers) also writes about the Weathermen's sexual experimentation as they tried to ''smash monogamy.'' The Weathermen were ''an army of lovers,'' he says, and describes having had different sexual partners, including his best male friend.

In 1967 he met Ms. Dohrn in Ann Arbor, Mich. She had a law degree from the University of Chicago and was a magnetic speaker who often wore thigh-high boots and miniskirts. In 1969, after the Manson family murders in Beverly Hills, Ms. Dohrn told an S.D.S. audience: ''Dig it! Manson killed those pigs, then they ate dinner in the same room with them, then they shoved a fork into a victim's stomach.''

You do know that after McGeorge Bundy got the Vietnam war started that he left government and took the position of President with the Ford Foundation. Bundy actually funded the SDS terrorists along with the Black Panther movement. You mention "The pedagogy of the Opressed". Is this the same BS that Franz Fanone(sp?) was pushing through Dar E Salam University? This pedagogy produced the likes Angela Davis and other black radical agent provocatuers deployed by Bundy's Ford Foundation to destroy the legacy and work of MLK's civil rights movement.

Bundy orchestrated the perfect "gang-counter gang" scenario by first starting the Vietnam war and then turning right around and funding all this left wing anti war fervor. Out of this chaos came the destruction of the US as the leading industrial power on the planet.

But Ayer's was an agent. Bought and paid for by the same forces that killed JFK, MLK and RFK.

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The Obamas Knew Weatherman Terrorists Ayers and Dohrn Since the

1980s

Oct. 10 (LPAC)--John Murdagh, a Yonkers, N.Y., city councilman

and current candidate for state senator, whose home was bombed in

1970 by the Weather Underground, has come forward to challenge

Barack Obama's claim that he only learned of Bill Ayers and

Bernadine Dohrn's activity in the terrorist Weatherunderground

sometime after a 1995 meeting at the Ayers' home in Chicago where

Barack Obama's political career was launched.

In February 1970, John Murtagh's father was a New York State

Supreme Court justice presiding over the trial of the so-called

"Panther 21," members of the Black Panther Party indicted in a

plot to bomb New York landmarks and department stores. Early on

the morning of Feb. 21, three gasoline-filled firebombs exploded

at their home on the northern tip of Manhattan, two at the front

door and the third tucked neatly under the gas tank of the family

car. The same night, bombs were thrown at a police car in

Manhattan and two military recruiting stations in Brooklyn. A few

weeks after the attack, the New York contingent of the Weathermen

blew themselves up making more bombs in a Greenwich Village

townhouse. In late November that year, a letter to the Associated

Press signed by Bernardine Dohrn, Ayers's wife, promised more

bombings.

Murdagh put out a statement on behalf of McCain's campaign

Wednesday stating "Barack Obama's friend tried to kill my

family."

"The Weather Underground launched an attack on our family

home ... looking to kill us," Murtagh told FOX News. "I believe

if the senator were to come clean and tell us the full story,

we'd find out this relationship well predates the fundraiser held

in the Ayers home. It goes back to the '80s."

In an interview on Fox TV, Murtagh established that Michelle

and Barack Obama knew Bernadine Dohrn and Bill Ayers beginning in

1988-89, when Michelle Obama and Bernadine Dohrn (Ayers' wife and

a former Weather Undergound bomber herself) worked together at

the law firm of Sidley and Austin.

Murtagh: Bill Ayer's wife Bernadine Dohrn, also one of the

original leaders of the Weather Underground, and the woman who

took credit for the bombing at our home and other New York

targets, Bernadine Dohrn was a attorney by training. She couldn't

get admitted to bar because of her crimes. Bill Ayers family got

her a job at a large Chicago law firm, Sydney and Austin in the

1980s. She was contemporary at that law firm in the 80s with

Michelle Obama. It was the firm where a year later--

Doocy: Known each other around the water cooler.

Murtagh: Sure and a year later it's where Michelle and

Barack Obama met. So I believe if the Senator were to come clean

and tell us the full story we'd find out this relationship well

predates the fundraiser held in the Ayers' home and goes back to

the 80s.

As Lyndon LaRouche commented, Obama is a creation of the

British, and they can still pull the plug on his candidacy. They

can sink him overnight. They can determine the outcome of the

election by sinking him or not sinking him overnight, even now.

LaRouche himself identified the character of the Weathermen

after they emerged in 1968 in a document entitled "The New Left,

Local Control, and Fascism." The relevance of this question could

not be clearer. The Weathermen, like ACORN today, was a

British-controlled, anti-labor fascist organization in its

essential character. Obama is a product of a fascist movement

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The Obamas Knew Weatherman Terrorists Ayers and Dohrn Since the

1980s

Oct. 10 (LPAC)--John Murdagh, a Yonkers, N.Y., city councilman

and current candidate for state senator, whose home was bombed in

1970 by the Weather Underground, has come forward to challenge

Barack Obama's claim that he only learned of Bill Ayers and

Bernadine Dohrn's activity in the terrorist Weatherunderground

sometime after a 1995 meeting at the Ayers' home in Chicago where

Barack Obama's political career was launched.

In February 1970, John Murtagh's father was a New York State

Supreme Court justice presiding over the trial of the so-called

"Panther 21," members of the Black Panther Party indicted in a

plot to bomb New York landmarks and department stores. Early on

the morning of Feb. 21, three gasoline-filled firebombs exploded

at their home on the northern tip of Manhattan, two at the front

door and the third tucked neatly under the gas tank of the family

car. The same night, bombs were thrown at a police car in

Manhattan and two military recruiting stations in Brooklyn. A few

weeks after the attack, the New York contingent of the Weathermen

blew themselves up making more bombs in a Greenwich Village

townhouse. In late November that year, a letter to the Associated

Press signed by Bernardine Dohrn, Ayers's wife, promised more

bombings.

Murdagh put out a statement on behalf of McCain's campaign

Wednesday stating "Barack Obama's friend tried to kill my

family."

"The Weather Underground launched an attack on our family

home ... looking to kill us," Murtagh told FOX News. "I believe

if the senator were to come clean and tell us the full story,

we'd find out this relationship well predates the fundraiser held

in the Ayers home. It goes back to the '80s."

In an interview on Fox TV, Murtagh established that Michelle

and Barack Obama knew Bernadine Dohrn and Bill Ayers beginning in

1988-89, when Michelle Obama and Bernadine Dohrn (Ayers' wife and

a former Weather Undergound bomber herself) worked together at

the law firm of Sidley and Austin.

Murtagh: Bill Ayer's wife Bernadine Dohrn, also one of the

original leaders of the Weather Underground, and the woman who

took credit for the bombing at our home and other New York

targets, Bernadine Dohrn was a attorney by training. She couldn't

get admitted to bar because of her crimes. Bill Ayers family got

her a job at a large Chicago law firm, Sydney and Austin in the

1980s. She was contemporary at that law firm in the 80s with

Michelle Obama. It was the firm where a year later--

Doocy: Known each other around the water cooler.

Murtagh: Sure and a year later it's where Michelle and

Barack Obama met. So I believe if the Senator were to come clean

and tell us the full story we'd find out this relationship well

predates the fundraiser held in the Ayers' home and goes back to

the 80s.

As Lyndon LaRouche commented, Obama is a creation of the

British, and they can still pull the plug on his candidacy. They

can sink him overnight. They can determine the outcome of the

election by sinking him or not sinking him overnight, even now.

LaRouche himself identified the character of the Weathermen

after they emerged in 1968 in a document entitled "The New Left,

Local Control, and Fascism." The relevance of this question could

not be clearer. The Weathermen, like ACORN today, was a

British-controlled, anti-labor fascist organization in its

essential character. Obama is a product of a fascist movement

Well at least Obama isn't a creation of the Irish, or we'd all be in trouble.

BK

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I, like many of my friends, trained as teachers so that we could reform from within. We also became involved in publishing teaching materials that encouraged students to question the status quo. As far as the UK is concerned, we had a lot of success. For example, we campaigned for and got changes to the way that history was taught. This included questioning the traditional way the past is presented in schools. I am convinced that one of the main reasons why there was so much opposition to the Iraq War in the UK was because of the changes that took place in our educational system in the 1970s and 1980s.

One of the first teaching booklets we published was on the assassination of JFK. One of the objectives of this booklet was to show how governments and intelligence agencies covered-up the truth about important historical events.

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When I hooked up with Shane O'Sullivan in Pittsburgh, he said he was moving on to a new subject - I think he said Sixties Radicals and their kids.

The week wasn't out when all of a sudden the man in the news is Bill Ayers, radical SDS Weatherman and former neighbor of a presidential candidate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Ayers

I too was a radical in the Sixties, and Education Reform was the primary issue that got me involved, though the Vietnam War also had something to do with it.

Like Ayers, Educational Reform of the stystem was an important part of the radical reformation of American politics in the Sixties and Seventies, and books like A.S. Neil's Summerhill, and The Pedagogy of the Oppressed, Schools Without Walls had a lot to do with it.

The idea that Bill Ayers has a negative impact on people, especially a presidential candidate, is pretty reactionary, as he eventually worked within and took over the system he had previously tried to violently overthrow.

Since the Republicans decided to make Ayers an issue, I thought he deserved his own thread.

BK

Your post is a romantic and unreal characterization of Bill Ayers and the Weatherman terrorist. Ayers was the son of a wealthy businessman. His father was chairman and chief executive officer of Commonwealth Edison of Chicago, chairman of Northwestern University and of the Chicago Symphony. I've always considered him nothing more than an agent, a real jacobin terrorist.

Quote:

He(Ayers) also writes about the Weathermen's sexual experimentation as they tried to ''smash monogamy.'' The Weathermen were ''an army of lovers,'' he says, and describes having had different sexual partners, including his best male friend.

In 1967 he met Ms. Dohrn in Ann Arbor, Mich. She had a law degree from the University of Chicago and was a magnetic speaker who often wore thigh-high boots and miniskirts. In 1969, after the Manson family murders in Beverly Hills, Ms. Dohrn told an S.D.S. audience: ''Dig it! Manson killed those pigs, then they ate dinner in the same room with them, then they shoved a fork into a victim's stomach.''

You do know that after McGeorge Bundy got the Vietnam war started that he left government and took the position of President with the Ford Foundation. Bundy actually funded the SDS terrorists along with the Black Panther movement. You mention "The pedagogy of the Opressed". Is this the same BS that Franz Fanone(sp?) was pushing through Dar E Salam University? This pedagogy produced the likes Angela Davis and other black radical agent provocatuers deployed by Bundy's Ford Foundation to destroy the legacy and work of MLK's civil rights movement.

Bundy orchestrated the perfect "gang-counter gang" scenario by first starting the Vietnam war and then turning right around and funding all this left wing anti war fervor. Out of this chaos came the destruction of the US as the leading industrial power on the planet.

But Ayer's was an agent. Bought and paid for by the same forces that killed JFK, MLK and RFK.

I totally agree with you that Ayers and Dohrn were agents. I have been saying this for years. You do not bomb and murder people and then get rewarded by teaching at a law school. Bullcrap. This kind of treatment is reserved for one type: agents. There was a legitimate anti war movement. I was very much a part of it. One of my dearest and lifelong friends Carl Oglesby was president of SDS. But when SDS went violent Carl walked away, never to be a part of SDS again. (He went on to investigate and write about the assassination of JFK) .

We all know here that the government infiltrated the antiwar movement. Every peace movement has been infiltrated.

What better way to destroy a peace movement than by having "members" commit terrorist acts.

Now there's a sory the media won't touch.

Dawn

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So Terry do you have any evidence for you claims from sources not tied to Larouche?

Were you thinking of reputable sources like the NY Times, Wall Street Journal, Time, CBS, CNN, ABC, or maybe a Harvard professor, or maybe someone like Mike Tribe? :tomatoes

Edited by Terry Mauro
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Oh, am I being insulted here? I wonder why. Is it because I'm British and therefore responsible for the international slave trade, the international narcotics trade, the assassination of all sorts of people, etc, etc?

No, just a fool.

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Despite constant insults, I have endeavoured not to sink to this level. Your views are bizarre and I have no wish to trade insults with someone who appears to attach no importance to historical fact, logic, or, indeed, anything except the equally bizarre views of a very marginal and apparently extremist fringe politician. So, once again, I'll just stop visiting the forum for a year or so and save some valuable time...

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Oh, am I being insulted here? I wonder why. Is it because I'm British and therefore responsible for the international slave trade, the international narcotics trade, the assassination of all sorts of people, etc, etc?

No, just a fool.

Terry,

I really must object.

The only fool here is one who subscribes to the official LaRouche line, which credits the British for more than they are capable of doing and tells people what to think.

I object to you calling Mike Tribe a fool and branding Ayers an "agent."

While the FBI did infiltrate the Klan, and ran Bob Hardy as an agent provocateur with the Camden anti-war activists, they failed to learn who broke into the Media, Pa. FBI office and stole the COINTELPRO docs, which tells me they didn't have anybody on the inside there.

I don't believe Ayers was an "agent" of the same forces that killed JFK. It was the assassinations of the Sixties and the Vietnam War that made people like Ayers take to violence against the government.

The thing about Ayers, as I point out in starting this thread, was that he wasn't a lawyer, a soldier, a cop or a mailman, but he was a teacher and educator and remained one.

Teachers and educators may be wrong on occassion, but they're not fools.

BK

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Oh, am I being insulted here? I wonder why. Is it because I'm British and therefore responsible for the international slave trade, the international narcotics trade, the assassination of all sorts of people, etc, etc?

No, just a fool.

Terry,

I really must object.

The only fool here is one who subscribes to the official LaRouche line, which credits the British for more than they are capable of doing and tells people what to think.

I object to you calling Mike Tribe a fool and branding Ayers an "agent."

While the FBI did infiltrate the Klan, and ran Bob Hardy as an agent provocateur with the Camden anti-war activists, they failed to learn who broke into the Media, Pa. FBI office and stole the COINTELPRO docs, which tells me they didn't have anybody on the inside there.

I don't believe Ayers was an "agent" of the same forces that killed JFK. It was the assassinations of the Sixties and the Vietnam War that made people like Ayers take to violence against the government.

The thing about Ayers, as I point out in starting this thread, was that he wasn't a lawyer, a soldier, a cop or a mailman, but he was a teacher and educator and remained one.

Teachers and educators may be wrong on occassion, but they're not fools.

BK

Okay Bill, you decided to invoke the old Flip Wilson catch phrase "The devil made me do it". That's essentially your defense of terrorist Bill Ayers and his wife Bernadine Dohrn. You just cant get anything right. The assassinations of the 1960's and the Vietnam war created fear and mass pyschosis within the boomer generation that made them ripe for the kind of brainwashing that you see in the "drug, sex, rock" counter culture. And they've yet to return.

How do you explain Ayers decade long reign as a terrorist only to be rewarded with the "juicy" position he occupy's today? Or his wife who has a job with a presitigous law firm? These two were involved in bombings, robbery, you name it. And how did they manage to stay hidden all those years? The same way another hippie guru Ira Einhorn managed to escape the law. You might remember that Edgar Bronfman's wife supplied Einhorn with the money he needed to stay on the lamb. Nothing like having friends in "high" places.

As far as Mike Tribe, it was Mike who called me a banana, and simply because I dare call the Governor of California a "nazi", which is exactly what he is.

You guys have a real problem with the truth. You've replaced it with popular opinion.

If you see Ayers as an educator then no wonder you're still chasing answers to the JFK murder. Just take a real look at the last 45 years. The secret to his murder isnt all that secret. Look at the changes these past 45 years, they're dreadful.

Edited by Terry Mauro
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Oh, am I being insulted here? I wonder why. Is it because I'm British and therefore responsible for the international slave trade, the international narcotics trade, the assassination of all sorts of people, etc, etc?

No, just a fool.

Terry,

I really must object.

The only fool here is one who subscribes to the official LaRouche line, which credits the British for more than they are capable of doing and tells people what to think.

I object to you calling Mike Tribe a fool and branding Ayers an "agent."

While the FBI did infiltrate the Klan, and ran Bob Hardy as an agent provocateur with the Camden anti-war activists, they failed to learn who broke into the Media, Pa. FBI office and stole the COINTELPRO docs, which tells me they didn't have anybody on the inside there.

I don't believe Ayers was an "agent" of the same forces that killed JFK. It was the assassinations of the Sixties and the Vietnam War that made people like Ayers take to violence against the government.

The thing about Ayers, as I point out in starting this thread, was that he wasn't a lawyer, a soldier, a cop or a mailman, but he was a teacher and educator and remained one.

Teachers and educators may be wrong on occassion, but they're not fools.

BK

Okay Bill, you decided to invoke the old Flip Wilson catch phrase "The devil made me do it". That's essentially your defense of terrorist Bill Ayers and his wife Bernadine Dohrn. You just cant get anything right. The assassinations of the 1960's and the Vietnam war created fear and mass pyschosis within the boomer generation that made them ripe for the kind of brainwashing that you see in the "drug, sex, rock" counter culture. And they've yet to return.

How do you explain Ayers decade long reign as a terrorist only to be rewarded with the "juicy" position he occupy's today? Or his wife who has a job with a presitigous law firm? These two were involved in bombings, robbery, you name it. And how did they manage to stay hidden all those years? The same way another hippie guru Ira Einhorn managed to escape the law. You might remember that Edgar Bronfman's wife supplied Einhorn with the money he needed to stay on the lamb. Nothing like having friends in "high" places.

As far as Mike Tribe, it was Mike who called me a banana, and simply because I dare call the Governor of California a "nazi", which is exactly what he is.

You guys have a real problem with the truth. You've replaced it with popular opinion.

If you see Ayers as an educator then no wonder you're still chasing answers to the JFK murder. Just take a real look at the last 45 years. The secret to his murder isnt all that secret. Look at the changes these past 45 years, they're dreadful.

Wait a minute, Mike Tribe called you a "banana," and you called Schwartzinager a Nazi?

Then the gloves come off and the Marquis of Queensburry Rules are in effect.

I like what Peter Dale Scott said about throwing around the words fascists and nazis, as they are serious descriptions that are well defined and should be applied only when truely appropriate.

I don't know about bananas.

Nor am I defending Bill Ayers; just saying that I don't think he is/was an agent, and a more apt description would be that of a teacher and educator.

He certainly was/is a terrorist if he set a bomb off in the Capitol, and I don't know how he got off, or lived on the lam, but there's no statute of limitations on murder or treason, so if he killed anybody then he can still be prosecuted. While Ira Einhorn had a lot of powerful friends (Brofman, Arlen Spector), they couldn't keep him from justice.

And like Angie Davis, I think being a terrorist is good training for a teacher.

And don't be putting all us "guys" into the same category, and I won't confuse the truth with public opinion.

BK

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