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Ralph Leon Yates


William Kelly
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Bill,

I recall that there is a thread on this issue on the Forum already.

I remember commenting that this Yates fellow recalled surprisingly much (too much to be true?) about this conversation, considering the car ride must not have been longer than 10 minutes or so.

Additionally, this man (Oswald?) that Yates seems to have picked up said quite a lot in 10 minutes, considering that neither man knew each other previously.

Third, I wonder why he waited with this deposition for over 2 weeks (Nov 20th - Dec. 10th), understandably, one would have waited until after Nov 22nd, but Dec 10th???

To wrap it up, to say the least, this statement of Yates' is odd.

Edited by Antti Hynonen
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Bill,

I recall that there is a thread on this issue on the Forum already.

I remember commenting that this Yates fellow recalled surprisingly much (too much to be true?) about this conversation, considering the car ride must not have been longer than 10 minutes or so.

Additionally, this man (Oswald?) that Yates seems to have picked up said quite a lot in 10 minutes, considering that neither man knew each other previously.

Third, I wonder why he waited with this deposition for over 2 weeks (Nov 20th - Dec. 10th), understandably, one would have waited until after Nov 22nd, but Dec 10th???

To wrap it up, to say the least, this statement of Yates' is odd.

Antti,

I tried to find the other thread but didn't. Nor do I believe it.

The passenger does talk a lot more than Oswald, who traveled ten times as far with BWF on the morning of the assassination and didn't say Boo.

It's just that this guy 1) Had curtain rods in brown paper wrap 4 foot long; 2) Showed backyard photo of rifle and pistol; 3) Talked about Ruby; 4) and talked about the President and motorcade; 4) Got off at Elm and Houston.

Now if he came forward before the photos of the gun were found, or before Ruby shot Oswald, then there might be some thing there.

But this guy SEEMS like he doesn't have an axe to grind.

Also, there's a women who saw a man in a pickup truck with aircondition on the side drop off a guy like Oswald who took a package from the back of the truck and went up to the TSBD that appears to verify this story.

BK

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Bill,

Yes, you are probably thinking of Julie Ann Mercer. Julie Ann's description of the events is different than Yates' on several points:

  • Julie Ann says it was Nov 22nd (Friday), Yates says Nov 20th (Wednesday)
  • Yates says the man had the brown package inside the truck, Julie Ann discusses a gun case, pulled from the back of the pickup, where tool boxes were present
  • Yates says he dropped "Oswald" off on Houston, and Julie Ann and the pick up were on Elm
  • Julie Ann describes the man as mid to late 20's with a wool hat with a tassle, Yates does not mention this in his description - but IMO he would have, in case we'd be talking about the exact same event (a bit unusual in TX in November, no?).

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/mercer.htm

Edited by Antti Hynonen
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Bill,

I think you may want to refer to Chapter 13 of the book "Live By the Sword" by Gus Russo. In that chapter Russo writes "during a FBI interview Dempsey Jones clearly recalled that on Wednesday, November 20, Yates came in and told him of his strange rider who discussed shotting the President from a building (FBI interview of Ralph Yates 26 november 1963; also FBI interview of Dempsey Jones 28 November 1963. "

If Jones is right about "clearly" remembering Yates story and is sure that the story was told to him before 22 Nov, then it would seem that Yates story is confirmed by a second person.

Personally, I believe Yates. To me it is an example of the second Oswalds setting up LHO, although this is a bit clumsey and over the top.

Steve Kober

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Bill,

I think you may want to refer to Chapter 13 of the book "Live By the Sword" by Gus Russo. In that chapter Russo writes "during a FBI interview Dempsey Jones clearly recalled that on Wednesday, November 20, Yates came in and told him of his strange rider who discussed shotting the President from a building (FBI interview of Ralph Yates 26 november 1963; also FBI interview of Dempsey Jones 28 November 1963. "

If Jones is right about "clearly" remembering Yates story and is sure that the story was told to him before 22 Nov, then it would seem that Yates story is confirmed by a second person.

Personally, I believe Yates. To me it is an example of the second Oswalds setting up LHO, although this is a bit clumsey and over the top.

Steve Kober

Thanks Antti and Steve,

And yes, I too don't believe it was Oswald as he talked WAY too much, and it does seem like part of the set-up - complete with curtain rods and Ruby.

BK

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Perhaps things occurred as Yates stated, but it was merely an Oswald IMPERSONATOR...???

Like the one in Mexico City, perhaps...in order to tighten the frame, maybe? Or maybe to cast doubt, and help ensure that the "mystery" stayed a mystery??

Again, just a thought...and it only works if the decoy Oswald knew how it would end from the beginning.

Edited by Mark Knight
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Perhaps things occurred as Yates stated, but it was merely an Oswald IMPERSONATOR...???

Like the one in Mexico City, perhaps...in order to tighten the frame, maybe? Or maybe to cast doubt, and help ensure that the "mystery" stayed a mystery??

Again, just a thought...and it only works if the decoy Oswald knew how it would end from the beginning.

Mark, if the Yates statement was part of the frame, and the curtain rods were part of that, then what about the Frazier and Randle's testimony, which tied in with curtain rods? Was this guy just some wacko who wanted to help out the official case, or does this indicate he was tied in with conspirators?

Roy Bierma

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My guess would be, IF the Yates statement is true...then the conspirators assigned Oswald to bring in curtain rods, and that's why the package Randle/Randall and Frazier reportedly saw was described as "curtain rods" to Frazier by LHO...probably because it WAS curtain rods.

Of course, I have more doubts than confidence in the Yates story. I was just playing devil's advocate, and considering what the circumstances might've been if Yates was being truthful. I don't think Yates was tied in with the conspirators at all; if he was, why would he volunteer a story at all?

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My guess would be, IF the Yates statement is true...then the conspirators assigned Oswald to bring in curtain rods, and that's why the package Randle/Randall and Frazier reportedly saw was described as "curtain rods" to Frazier by LHO...probably because it WAS curtain rods.

Of course, I have more doubts than confidence in the Yates story. I was just playing devil's advocate, and considering what the circumstances might've been if Yates was being truthful. I don't think Yates was tied in with the conspirators at all; if he was, why would he volunteer a story at all?

"I don't think Yates was tied in with the conspirators at all; if he was, why would he volunteer a story at all?" Well, as someone pointed out, Yates didn't come forward with the story until weeks later. By that time he may have ascertained that the police weren't interested in a conspiracy anyway. But if through someone in the police department or the media, he realized they "had their man", and therefore wouldn't look to Yates as an accessory, he may have given the story for the purpose of confirming the Oswald story and pointing away from any conspiracy. In any event, the story was ignored. It didn't appear in the 26 volumes of evidence, although it did appear in the larger collection of Warren Commission Documents. It is a strange phenomenon, though.

Roy

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Bill,

Another thought on this subject, perhaps the curtain rod / paper bag story was set up as a contingincy plan. If LHO's ride had stayed home that day ( car trouble, sick day etc) then the Yates story could have served as the explanation as to how LHO brought the rifle into the TSBD. It does make you wonder though if the Planners had gone through all the trouble of at least a year and a half of sheep dipping Oswald and then he not show up the critical day what would have happened?

The fact that LHO shows up and he's carrying the curtain rods with him, makes me think that Oswald was somehow involved.

Personally, I think LHO thought he was part of a team that had infiltrated a radical Cuban group and that an abort team would prevent the assassination. Still, all this is speculation on my part.

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  • 4 months later...
My guess would be, IF the Yates statement is true...then the conspirators assigned Oswald to bring in curtain rods, and that's why the package Randle/Randall and Frazier reportedly saw was described as "curtain rods" to Frazier by LHO...probably because it WAS curtain rods.

Of course, I have more doubts than confidence in the Yates story. I was just playing devil's advocate, and considering what the circumstances might've been if Yates was being truthful. I don't think Yates was tied in with the conspirators at all; if he was, why would he volunteer a story at all?

"I don't think Yates was tied in with the conspirators at all; if he was, why would he volunteer a story at all?" Well, as someone pointed out, Yates didn't come forward with the story until weeks later. By that time he may have ascertained that the police weren't interested in a conspiracy anyway. But if through someone in the police department or the media, he realized they "had their man", and therefore wouldn't look to Yates as an accessory, he may have given the story for the purpose of confirming the Oswald story and pointing away from any conspiracy. In any event, the story was ignored. It didn't appear in the 26 volumes of evidence, although it did appear in the larger collection of Warren Commission Documents. It is a strange phenomenon, though.

Roy

A strange phenomenon indeed.

The curtain rod story must take the Yates story into account.

BK

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  • 1 year later...

"Even Dempsy Jones, who confirmed to the FBI that Yates told him at least one day before the assassination

about the hitchhiker's talk on shooting the president, was skeptical. ( this and his cousin Ken Smith's

comments about Yates obsession with the Oswald matter is all there is against his story )

There were too many Oswalds in view, with too many smuggled rifles,retelling a familiar story to too many witnesses.

At least one curtain rods story, and the disposable witness who heard it, had to go. The obvious person to be jettisoned was the hapless Ralph Yates.

His stubborn insistence on what he knew he had seen and heard, from the man he had given a ride,had to be squelched.

Ralph Yates then went though eleven years of hell. Yet he could not forget, and would not stop speaking about, what

he witnessed when he picked up the man he thought was Lee Harvey Oswald. Without ever understanding the full meaning

of the experience he refused to renounce, Ralph Leon Yates was a witness to the unspeakable."

Ralph Yates was a man with a wife and five children who had no reason to make up something like this.Given the fact that

Oswald doubles have been confirmed in the area on other occassions during that time, there is no reason in the world not

to believe his story. His memory deserves at least that.

Edited by Peter McGuire
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  • 2 years later...

Bill,

I recall that there is a thread on this issue on the Forum already.

I remember commenting that this Yates fellow recalled surprisingly much (too much to be true?) about this conversation, considering the car ride must not have been longer than 10 minutes or so.

Additionally, this man (Oswald?) that Yates seems to have picked up said quite a lot in 10 minutes, considering that neither man knew each other previously.

Third, I wonder why he waited with this deposition for over 2 weeks (Nov 20th - Dec. 10th), understandably, one would have waited until after Nov 22nd, but Dec 10th???

To wrap it up, to say the least, this statement of Yates' is odd.

I can't find the other Yates thread, either.

According to Tom Scully, it was also called Ralph Leon Yates, and had 177 "replies" and 7003 "views" as of March 26, 2013.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?app=forums&module=extras&section=stats&do=who&t=20066

Was it deleted by a moderator? If so, why?

--Tommy :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves
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Bill,

I recall that there is a thread on this issue on the Forum already.

I remember commenting that this Yates fellow recalled surprisingly much (too much to be true?) about this conversation, considering the car ride must not have been longer than 10 minutes or so.

Additionally, this man (Oswald?) that Yates seems to have picked up said quite a lot in 10 minutes, considering that neither man knew each other previously.

Third, I wonder why he waited with this deposition for over 2 weeks (Nov 20th - Dec. 10th), understandably, one would have waited until after Nov 22nd, but Dec 10th???

To wrap it up, to say the least, this statement of Yates' is odd.

I can't find the other Yates thread, either.

According to Tom Scully, it was also called Ralph Leon Yates, and had 177 "replies" and 7003 "views".

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?app=forums&module=extras&section=stats&do=who&t=20066

Was it deleted by a moderator? If so, why?

--Tommy :sun

Another website says the Ralph Leon Yates thread I'm looking for was started by Lee Farley on March 26, 2013, and had nine posts during the first two days of its existence. (By the time Tom Scully posted the Ed Forum's statistics on it, it had apparently gotten an additional 168 posts.)

http://omgili.com/thread/j.JM_ertN3IC1iSvcg8rSoKVPUYivfdBt_UZ23863PN06m8YVHQOabR3UU1TltzCBgVe2HVgvz6Q6hfxZCm.SPzxPsayTtL5/

I'm guessing Mr. Farley deleted the thread when he left the Forum.

Was he a moderator at the time?

Can a non-moderator delete a thread he or she started?

--Tommy :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves
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