Robin Unger Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 (edited) In the image below, does Bronson correspond to the same timeline as Z-232 Frame: In both images the Umbrella is raised, and DCM has his right arm raised in the air. Edited December 30, 2008 by Robin Unger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 (edited) Robin, I don't believe you can determine that to an exact frame. Apparently, the umbrella and DCM reaches its ceiling for more than 1 frame. Does this help? chris Edited December 30, 2008 by Chris Davidson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted December 30, 2008 Author Share Posted December 30, 2008 Robin,I don't believe you can determine that to an exact frame. Apparently, the umbrella and DCM reaches its ceiling for more than 1 frame. Does this help? chris Thanks Chris. Yes that is a big help. Just looking at your GIF Is it safe to assume that in Bronson at the point DCM has his arm raised, that JFK had "already been shot in the throat". ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 DCM arm fully raised at 228. I would guess sometime before that frame. chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted December 30, 2008 Author Share Posted December 30, 2008 DCM arm fully raised at 228.I would guess sometime before that frame. chris Hi Chris. It seems that the generally exepted "Z-Frame equivalent" to Bronson is Z-229 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Roberdeau Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 (edited) ....Good Day.... Several years ago I completed a photogrammatical study of President KENNEDY's location seen in the BRONSON #3 photo, relative to fixed DP landmarks, that details that BRONSON's photo was snapped circa Z-224 to 227. CHARLES BRONSON stated to TRASK that the limo was temporarily hidden from BRONSON's view by the north peristyle's wall, and he already had positioned his camera right up to his face with his finger on the shutter button, waiting for the limo to clear the peristyle and proceed further down Elm. BRONSON stated that just after the limo had barely cleared the peristyle, BRONSON was startled when he heard the first audible muzzle blast of the 3 blasts that BRONSON remembered hearing. BRONSON's first remembered audible muzzle blast IMMEDIATELY startled him so much (just like PHIL WILLIS's first remembered audible muzzle blast photo at Z-205) that he "instinctively jumped" and inadvertantly snapped his photo, set at a 1/100th-second exposure time. Interestingly, the 370.9' distance that BRONSON's center-of-pedestal location was away from the warrenatti, supposed, "lone-nut" "sniper lair" absolutely mandates that a muzzle blast soundwave traveling at approximately 1125 fps would have required, at least, 0.32 second, or at least, 6 Z-frames, just to reach Mr. BRONSON's eardrums. Additionally, allowing a minimum of 0.20 second, about 4 Z-frames, response time in BRONSON after his ears heard his first remembered audible muzzle blast, mandates that the LATEST that BRONSON's first remembered audible muzzle blast exited its rifle barrel was at precisely Z-214 to 217. (1) Very similarly, recall that PHIL WILLIS (located 125.1' from the warrenatti, supposed, "lone-nut" "sniper lair") also stated that the first muzzle blast that he remembered hearing also unexpectedly startled him into capturing his photo #5 concurrently with Z-202. I also reference for you my study, "Under the "magic-limbed-ricochet-tree"; Z-288, then, 203 to 206," now located here that supports the initial bullet impacting into President KENNEDY at the latest, at Z-198 to 199. (1) In RICHARD TRASK's Pictures of the Pain, 285, lone-nut apologist TRASK wrote that the muzzle blast sound travel time, added with BRONSON's 0.20 second minimum reaction time to hearing that muzzle blast, indicated to TRASK that a warrenatti, supposed, "lone-nut" "sniper lair" triggered bullet was fired, at the LATEST, at Z-211. Best Regards in Research, Don Don Roberdeau U.S.S. John F. Kennedy, CV-67, "Big John," Plank Walker Sooner, or later, The Truth emerges Clearly President Kennedy "Men of Courage" speech, and JFK Assassination Research, Maps, & Discoveries for Your Considerations (Updated 12-28-08) T ogether E veryone A chieves M ore National Terror Alert for the United States: Edited December 31, 2008 by Don Roberdeau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Robin,I don't believe you can determine that to an exact frame. Apparently, the umbrella and DCM reaches its ceiling for more than 1 frame. Does this help? chris http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z204.jpg Blue Scarf lady (standing along direct left edge of road sign), is standing along the street curb almost directly lateral to survey stationing 3+95. Which places here virtually lateral to approximately Z232/233. http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0464b.htm Based on the Bronson photo and the position of "Blue Scarf lady" in relationship to the limo windshield, as well as the limo and it's angle and in relationship to the background trees, etc;, JFK is slightly short of the Z232 position in the film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Roberdeau Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 (edited) ....Good Day.... Several years ago I completed a photogrammatical study of President KENNEDY's location seen in the BRONSON #3 photo, relative to fixed DP landmarks, that details that BRONSON's photo was snapped circa Z-224 to 227.CHARLES BRONSON stated to TRASK that the limo was temporarily hidden from BRONSON's view by the north peristyle's wall, and he already had positioned his camera right up to his face with his finger on the shutter button, waiting for the limo to clear the peristyle and proceed further down Elm. BRONSON stated that just after the limo had barely cleared the peristyle, BRONSON was startled when he heard the first audible muzzle blast of the 3 blasts that BRONSON remembered hearing. BRONSON's first remembered audible muzzle blast IMMEDIATELY startled him so much (just like PHIL WILLIS's first remembered audible muzzle blast photo at Z-205) that he "instinctively jumped" and inadvertantly snapped his photo, set at a 1/100th-second exposure time. Interestingly, the 370.9' distance that BRONSON's center-of-pedestal location was away from the warrenatti, supposed, "lone-nut" "sniper lair" absolutely mandates that a muzzle blast soundwave traveling at approximately 1125 fps would have required, at least, 0.32 second, or at least, 6 Z-frames, just to reach Mr. BRONSON's eardrums. Additionally, allowing a minimum of 0.20 second, about 4 Z-frames, response time in BRONSON after his ears heard his first remembered audible muzzle blast, mandates that the LATEST that BRONSON's first remembered audible muzzle blast exited its rifle barrel was at precisely Z-214 to 217. (1) Very similarly, recall that PHIL WILLIS (located 125.1' from the warrenatti, supposed, "lone-nut" "sniper lair") also stated that the first muzzle blast that he remembered hearing also unexpectedly startled him into capturing his photo #5 concurrently with Z-202. I also reference for you my study, "Under the "magic-limbed-ricochet-tree"; Z-288, then, 203 to 206," now located here that supports the initial bullet impacting into President KENNEDY at the latest, at Z-198 to 199. (1) In RICHARD TRASK's Pictures of the Pain, 285, lone-nut apologist TRASK wrote that the muzzle blast sound travel time, added with BRONSON's 0.20 second minimum reaction time to hearing that muzzle blast, indicated to TRASK that a warrenatti, supposed, "lone-nut" "sniper lair" triggered bullet was fired, at the LATEST, at Z-211. ....Good Day.... Was going from memory in my first post when providing the Z-224 to 227 range for the BRONSON photo timestamping. To be sure, I found and just uploaded my photogrammatical study completed years ago detailing precisely where President KENNEDY was located at the instant that the BRONSON photo was exposed. At the instant of the BRONSON photo, President KENNEDY was in the exact location of Z-223 to 224. Interestingly, the 370.9' distance that BRONSON's center-of-pedestal location was away from the warrenatti, supposed, "lone-nut" "sniper lair" absolutely mandates that a muzzle blast soundwave traveling at approximately 1125 fps would have required, at least, 0.32 second, or at least, 6 Z-frames, just to reach Mr. BRONSON's eardrums. Additionally, allowing a minimum of 0.20 second, about 4 Z-frames, response time in BRONSON after his ears heard his first remembered audible muzzle blast, mandates that the LATEST that BRONSON's first remembered audible muzzle blast exited its warrenatti, supposed, "lone-nut" "sniper lair" rifle barrel was at precisely Z-213 to 214. (1) Best Regards in Research, Don Don Roberdeau U.S.S. John F. Kennedy, CV-67, "Big John," Plank Walker Sooner, or later, The Truth emerges Clearly President Kennedy "Men of Courage" speech, and JFK Assassination Research, Maps, & Discoveries for Your Considerations (Updated 12-28-08) T ogether E veryone A chieves M ore National Terror Alert for the United States: Edited January 1, 2009 by Don Roberdeau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 ....Good Day.... Several years ago I completed a photogrammatical study of President KENNEDY's location seen in the BRONSON #3 photo, relative to fixed DP landmarks, that details that BRONSON's photo was snapped circa Z-224 to 227.CHARLES BRONSON stated to TRASK that the limo was temporarily hidden from BRONSON's view by the north peristyle's wall, and he already had positioned his camera right up to his face with his finger on the shutter button, waiting for the limo to clear the peristyle and proceed further down Elm. BRONSON stated that just after the limo had barely cleared the peristyle, BRONSON was startled when he heard the first audible muzzle blast of the 3 blasts that BRONSON remembered hearing. BRONSON's first remembered audible muzzle blast IMMEDIATELY startled him so much (just like PHIL WILLIS's first remembered audible muzzle blast photo at Z-205) that he "instinctively jumped" and inadvertantly snapped his photo, set at a 1/100th-second exposure time. Interestingly, the 370.9' distance that BRONSON's center-of-pedestal location was away from the warrenatti, supposed, "lone-nut" "sniper lair" absolutely mandates that a muzzle blast soundwave traveling at approximately 1125 fps would have required, at least, 0.32 second, or at least, 6 Z-frames, just to reach Mr. BRONSON's eardrums. Additionally, allowing a minimum of 0.20 second, about 4 Z-frames, response time in BRONSON after his ears heard his first remembered audible muzzle blast, mandates that the LATEST that BRONSON's first remembered audible muzzle blast exited its rifle barrel was at precisely Z-214 to 217. (1) Very similarly, recall that PHIL WILLIS (located 125.1' from the warrenatti, supposed, "lone-nut" "sniper lair") also stated that the first muzzle blast that he remembered hearing also unexpectedly startled him into capturing his photo #5 concurrently with Z-202. I also reference for you my study, "Under the "magic-limbed-ricochet-tree"; Z-288, then, 203 to 206," now located here that supports the initial bullet impacting into President KENNEDY at the latest, at Z-198 to 199. (1) In RICHARD TRASK's Pictures of the Pain, 285, lone-nut apologist TRASK wrote that the muzzle blast sound travel time, added with BRONSON's 0.20 second minimum reaction time to hearing that muzzle blast, indicated to TRASK that a warrenatti, supposed, "lone-nut" "sniper lair" triggered bullet was fired, at the LATEST, at Z-211. ....Good Day.... Was going from memory in my first post when providing the Z-224 to 227 range for the BRONSON photo timestamping. To be sure, I found and just uploaded my photogrammatical study completed years ago detailing precisely where President KENNEDY was located at the instant that the BRONSON photo was exposed. At the instant of the BRONSON photo, President KENNEDY was in the exact location of Z-223 to 224. Interestingly, the 370.9' distance that BRONSON's center-of-pedestal location was away from the warrenatti, supposed, "lone-nut" "sniper lair" absolutely mandates that a muzzle blast soundwave traveling at approximately 1125 fps would have required, at least, 0.32 second, or at least, 6 Z-frames, just to reach Mr. BRONSON's eardrums. Additionally, allowing a minimum of 0.20 second, about 4 Z-frames, response time in BRONSON after his ears heard his first remembered audible muzzle blast, mandates that the LATEST that BRONSON's first remembered audible muzzle blast exited its warrenatti, supposed, "lone-nut" "sniper lair" rifle barrel was at precisely Z-213 to 214. (1) Best Regards in Research, Don Don Roberdeau U.S.S. John F. Kennedy, CV-67, "Big John," Plank Walker Sooner, or later, The Truth emerges Clearly President Kennedy "Men of Courage" speech, and JFK Assassination Research, Maps, & Discoveries for Your Considerations (Updated 12-28-08) T ogether E veryone A chieves M ore National Terror Alert for the United States: All well and good, except: Without going into all the semantics of the details, perhaps the viewing public would appreciate an explanation as to exactly why the first road sign does not appear within the Bronson photo, yet would be fully visible in your drawing. http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z115.jpg and here: http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z120.jpg The one of which the right post can be observed at the left edge of the film in the above film frames. In fact, one may want to count a few spectators "downwards" from Blue Scarf lady and compare it with the Bronson film in event that they truly want some of the answers. Which would mean little once they have them. http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z185.jpg Excuse me, but I will stick with the West Survey Plat and scale of 1-inch = 10 feet, as well as Mr. West's truly "Professionally Surveyed" reputation and sign off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 (edited) If you work your way down to the Newman's, it would appear they are right next to the curb. The Newman children appear to be similar in height. I don't believe Moorman was wearing a red cap that day. Where would Moorman have to stand, in order to see the Newman boy's red outfit above her? Of course you might ask: Why doesn't her head/black hair "appear in full", since she is closer to the camera? Thought I'd work from the other end of the photo. chris Edited January 1, 2009 by Chris Davidson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Davidson Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 In fact, I believe if you look closer, you'll probably see where Moorman's leg used to be. chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Chris.... B........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted January 1, 2009 Author Share Posted January 1, 2009 Zapruder Blue Scarf Lady seen in Bronson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H. Purvis Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Zapruder Blue Scarf Lady seen in Bronson. Nice "blowup" Robin. Your (as well as a few others) photo research resource is a credit to all who are actually interested in resolving the issues of the assassination. Hope that a few points (concrete construction joints; expansion joints; cracks in the asphalt of Elm St; Yellow Curb marks; etc;) have demonstrated exactly what a value having your resource actually is. The nice thing about "Blue Scarf" lady is that one does not have to rely on the road sign to relatively accurately determine here position on Elm St. in regards to the West survey stationing and platting of frames of the Z-film. Her position in direct alignment from the Zapruder pedestal to the concrete wall radius at the reflecting pond is a "straight-line" plot which is relatively simple when one has the full size West Survey Plat. And therefore, with this large scale, it presents no difficulty in plotting/platting her position within +/- a foot or so. Along with quite a few other locations of personell, etc; I might add. Whatever the reason, the "pro v. con's" of these discussions and the photographis resources which you and others have seen fit to make available to all, appear to have shed additional light on many items of importance, as well as the destruction (almost anyway) of multitudes of rumors; hearsay; half-truths; and sometimes mere stupid guesswork. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted January 1, 2009 Author Share Posted January 1, 2009 (edited) Thanks Tom. To be honest i had not noticed the "Blue Scarf Lady" until you mentioned her a little earlier in the thread. Once we have her location pinpointed it should be relativly easy to look at the Zapruder frame and match up the Ladies working our way back from the Stemmons Sighn. Quote: P.P.P.S. Anyone remaining who does not understand the "emphasis" on concrete construction/expansion joints? "The Riddler"! "Failure to understand the evidence has no bearing on the validity of that evidence. As a general rule, it merely means that one does not understand the evidence" Tom. When looking at your information regarding (concrete construction joints; expansion joints; cracks in the asphalt of Elm St; Yellow Curb marks; etc;) I must confess, that as a "Novice" at understanding the significant's of the Survey Information you supply, i am totally lost most of the time. Cheers. Robin. Edited January 1, 2009 by Robin Unger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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