Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile

[Jack White]

My question: Why would ANYONE speak to a total stranger (?) in a FOREIGN LANGUAGE?

Forget an exact translation. I would consider such a person weird.

Jack,

That was one of the questions Mary Ferrell asked Judyth too. Mary thought it extremely bizarre ... especially for a young girl in a strange city...

Barb :-)

Mary took a course in Russian so she could translate Russian documents. She learned to read

Russian well...but COULD NEVER LEARN TO UNDERSTAND NOR SPEAK the language. As a result

of her study, she said it was absurd that LHO learned to speak Russian BY READING BOOKS as

the WC alleged. Mary's IQ far exceeded either LHO or JVB. Mary had a photographic memory,

and was able to reconstruct what any document said merely by reading it.

Agreed, Jack. Mary did not believe Judyth could think in Russian ... here is the passage from her e-mail about Judyth in Dec 2001 where she comments on her own training in Russian, Judyth telling her she was thinking in Russian, and the comment about why Judyth would speak to a strange man too ... all in the same paragraph:

From Mary Ferrell e-mail, December 12, 2001:

I asked her why she would use the Russian language to a man

she didn't know standing in a line at the post office in Louisiana.

She claimed that Dr. Oschner and his colleagues had insisted that she

study Russian and become fluent in the language. She never gave a

coherent answer about why she was instructed to learn Russian. She

did ramble off several portions of sentences that did not make sense.

She said, in effect, that she was "thinking" in Russian. (I studied

three years of High School Latin, four years of High School Spanish

and, following the assassination, I used every available text book,

audio aide and visual aides to intensively study Russian for one year.

I was only able to think in English at the end of that year.)

Bests,

Barb :-)

Thanks for the quotes from Mary. Sounds exactly what she told me

except not in the context of MVB, but LHO.

Did Mary say more about JVB that you have saved?

[John Dolva]

If part of this beta testing proofreading book promotion is decided on semantics, fair 'nuff. Tusen Tak is correctly written tusen takk* in norwegian. Tak, from memory, means roof.

re: thinking in a language: I can only speak from experience. It took me a long time before I stopped slowly to think in swedish and then translate that to english when wanting to write or speak english. I still write in a kind of ''yoda speak'' at times. Swedish grammar is in parts very different from english. After I have had a conversation in swedish, at times, (and it happens to other memebers of the family too), I have difficulty in smoothly shifting to english, (which can be rather amusing at times and confusing to the english speaker I say something to).

edit:typos

edit add:*phonetically, roughly, ''tuck'', ie...

Edited March 12, 2010 by John Dolva

[Glenn Viklund]

Day 2

And on the one hand things are advancing rapidly.

Since the initial 24 hours, where I was described as an ”embarassment”, ”a dubious source” and a ”spy”, things have taken off with a blast.

Over the past 24 hours my career has now gone into overdrive. From ”$$$$ Mercenary for hire”, to ”Professional translator with inside access to asylum cases”, to ”Government agent - an insider”, among other things. Not only that, I've also taken part in a cover up. No, no, not that Cover Up, I was already part of that one, of course! But the cover up of some postings of mine in McAdams mod forum. Executed by even more postings from me in McAdams mod forum. And being on some sort of black list, or maybe I'm running the blacklist myself, it's a bit fuzzy...

Ya follow?? Hehehe, me neither...

I must say, I can't wait for the next 24 hours.

By then, I've now become reasonably well convinced, the shadowy figure of some dubious Swede named ”Vickland” or something similar, will be known to have been seen in very close proximity to the grassy knoll at Dealey Plaza in Dallas, on November 22, 1963.

In the fantasy world of Judyth Vary Baker anything is possible. But nonetheless I have to admit that there's a certain charm to be the central figure in her world of never ending conspiracies.

Moving back to reality for moment, none of the above surprise me at all, as far as Judyth Baker. This is what she does, her bread and butter. Anyone who dares challenge any of her fantasies will be subjected to this kind of activities. We've all seen it before, no need to go into that in detail. That there still seems to be even one person left who believes anything this woman says, is a complete mystery, in my view. The activities that she's been engaged in over the past decade should have ruled that out, years ago.

And I have to quote another email I just received:

”When Judyth Baker claims the earth is flat, we all know

what will happen to anyone claiming she is in error.”

Which indeed sums it up quite nicely.

Jack White, earlier in this thread, is probably spot on: ”Judyth suffers from Factitious Disorder”. There's no way you can behave the way she does, without having at least a couple of your horses not back in the stable. Of this, I have no doubts. But never mind all this hooopla from Judyth, there's something else here that I find deeply disappointing and disturbing, quite frankly bizarre.

Professor Fetzer is allowed to have any opinion he chooses about Judyth, no issue with that. According to himself earlier in this thread, he does believe her story, but have an open mind: ”Should I become convinced I am wrong about Judyth, I will certainly acknowledge it.”. Fair enough, a reasonable approach, it seems to me.

Now, when Judyth engages in all these attempts to discredit and slandering me, what does professor Fetzer do? Well, not only do you not throw all this nonsense in the garbage. Instead, without hesitation, you promptly promotes the stuff, by – against all rules of this forum, btw – immediately bring it forward to the forum.

Let me ask you, professor Fetzer, what is your purpose with doing this? If, by all means, I've missed something important as to how this will help you form an educated opionion on Judyth, then please, help me fill this void. Or, should I have missed how this might clarify anything about her stay in Sweden, well, you will have to help me out there as well.

Professor Fetzer, I decided to participate in the debate about Judyth, in dec of 08 and this time around, only because I recognized that her description of how this entire asylum issue had transpired, was so infested with untruthful statements and misrepresentations, that it was simply impossible not to contribute to straighten things out. And of this position I'm willing to debate with anyone who's interested in doing so. So, professor Fetzer, is it of any interest to you, that she systematically is avoiding to answer a few questions?

So what I'm trying to achieve, Mr Fetzer, is very simple: to get Judyth to answer a few questions about her stay in Sweden, that's all. If she is telling the truth then this is an excellent opportunity for her to show that. In which case I'll have to walk out of here in shame. If she can step up to the plate with satisfactory answers to these questions, she will not hear from me again, and that's a promise.

And let me ask you this, professor Fetzer: considering your open mind about Judyth, if it turns out that she has not been telling the truth about the asylum issue, would you then agree that this could potentially have serious implications as far as her credibility, more generally speaking?

Once again, these are my questions, to start with (all of them btw, derived from statements of hers that I consider not truthful):

1. Who; what authority, has decided that you are to travel in secrecy, ”for your protection”?

2. Why did your friends present – as I showed by quotation – a summon to a meeting, as a grant of asylum?

3. Why are you giving the impression that you received special treatment, when your case, in every possible respect, was a standard asylum seekers case?

4. Why are you saying that you could have stayed another ”year or two”, when, in fact, you by every possible means available to you, had exhausted your options to stay in Sweden?

5. Why are you suggesting that the two Swedish Court who decided in your case, disregarded the evidence and used a ”standard reply” to motivate their findings?

6. What is the name of the official who told you that the two Court decisions would be kept confidential?

In my view, these areas have a certain degree of importance, as far as her stay in Sweden. She has given all kinds of explanations and none of them can be corroborated with what is shown in the decisions from the Swedish Courts. Therefore, this is a good opportunity for her to straighten these things out, once and for all.

I have others as well, but as I stated yesterday, these would be a good start.

So, Mr Fetzer, will you assist in making these issues clarified?

Edited March 12, 2010 by Glenn Viklund

[Karl Kinaski]

If part of this beta testing proofreading book promotion is decided on semantics, fair 'nuff. Tusen Tak is correctly written tusen takk* in norwegian. Tak, from memory, means roof.

re: thinking in a language: I can only speak from experience. It took me a long time before I stopped slowly to think in swedish and then translate that to english when wanting to write or speak english. I still write in a kind of ''yoda speak'' at times. Swedish grammar is in parts very different from english. After I have had a conversation in swedish, at times, (and it happens to other memebers of the family too), I have difficulty in smoothly shifting to english, (which can be rather amusing at times and confusing to the english speaker I say something to).

edit:typos

edit add:*phonetically, roughly, ''tuck'', ie...

@Barb, Doug, Jack:

Yeah, yeah, maybe Judyths Russian isn't that perfect anymore. But she met and knew Oswald in New Orleans. Both worked in a get Castro project, naive enough to believe what they were told: that kill Castro would prevent some Cubans to kill Kennedy...this was on Oswalds mind, when he drove by car to mexico, with that cancer material... but the whole thing IMO was nothing more, than a case of "deception" of own agents) Judyth and Ossi), the real thing behind all those pseudo-action was to kill Kennedy, and drag the patsy, Ossi, into secret activities, that would make it much easier to kill him...Ossi and Judyth were both victims ... It is stupid, narrow minded and disgusting to tie her current ability in the the russian language and her STORY per se together.

@John: You re right. When I switch from my mother tongue german to english, I write and think sometimes in "yoda speak"...but yoda is a wise alien...

KK

According to a Prouty black op radio interview there was an Office which handled deception.

Deception is a very important type of special operations. If the enemy discovers such an operation he never knew, is it a real thing, or is it a deception-op, to mislead us...IMO Ossi and JVB were draged into such an deception op, without recognizing it...just a thought...

(Hope that was not Yoda speak)

Edited March 12, 2010 by Karl Kinaski

[Karl Kinaski]

xxx

Edited October 26, 2010 by Karl Kinaski

[John Dolva]

If part of this beta testing proofreading book promotion is decided on semantics, fair 'nuff. Tusen Tak is correctly written tusen takk* in norwegian. Tak, from memory, means roof.

re: thinking in a language: I can only speak from experience. It took me a long time before I stopped slowly to think in swedish and then translate that to english when wanting to write or speak english. I still write in a kind of ''yoda speak'' at times. Swedish grammar is in parts very different from english. After I have had a conversation in swedish, at times, (and it happens to other memebers of the family too), I have difficulty in smoothly shifting to english, (which can be rather amusing at times and confusing to the english speaker I say something to).

edit:typos

edit add:*phonetically, roughly, ''tuck'', ie...

@Barb, Doug, Jack:

Yeah, yeah, maybe Judyths Russian isn't that perfect anymore. But she met and knew Oswald in New Orleans. Both worked in a get Castro project, naive enough to believe what they were told: that kill Castro would prevent some Cubans to kill Kennedy...this was on Oswalds mind, when he drove by car to mexico, with that cancer material... but the whole thing IMO was nothing more, than a case of "deception" of own agents) Judyth and Ossi), the real thing behind all those pseudo-action was to kill Kennedy, and drag the patsy, Ossi, into secret activities, that would make it much easier to kill him...Ossi and Judyth were both victims ... It is stupid, narrow minded and disgusting to tie her current ability in the the russian language and her STORY per se together.

@John: You re right. When I switch from my mother tongue german to english, I write and think sometimes in "yoda speak"...but yoda is a wise alien...

KK

According to a Prouty black op radio interview there was an Office which handled deception.

Deception is a very important type of special operations. If the enemy discovers such an operation he never knew, is it a real thing, or is it a deception-op, to mislead us...IMO Ossi and JVB were draged into such an deception op, without recognizing it...just a thought...

(Hope that was not Yoda speak)

No, I think I get it, and it seems clear to me + parts coincide with my thinking on the matter. (I'm not really interested in JVB in relation to the JFK assassination but the vaccine/innoculation/virus story is one worth keeping a an eye on. I worked in a Theosophical institution that cared among others for a number of heartrending vaccination victims and therefore has a peripheral interest).

Your thought is like one that has been coming to me but in a slightly different format. Ie, I think personally it's worth contemplating.

[Pamela Brown]

Nice point, Pamela! I am still stunned that, after nearly 20 years of research on JFK, Wellstone, and 9/11, I only received my first DEATH THREAT after I took an interest in Judyth and began speaking out on her behalf:

1. EMAIL:        

                                                                     

2. SUSPECT:    

                                                             

3. DATE OF BLOG:  

Of course, Barb, who has an "explanation" for EVERYTHING, will have one that has nothing to do with Judyth. But like so many of her other posts, it fails the "smell test". It is only after I have made a public statement on behalf of Judyth Vary Baker that I am subjected to this kind of harassment!

For more about cyberwarfare and internet harassment, visit http://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2010/02/yo...berwarfare.html

Another uppercut for Barb! Uh, I like this fight! Great entertainment!

KK

We are witnessing a full-blown Barb-offensive against Judyth. Of course, it has been Barb's mission for many years to track down every detail of Judyth's life, including trying to find where she was being hidden by the Swedish govt, so this should come as no surprise.

But there is also a larger dynamic, which you have already eloquently addressed -- namely, who and what will attempt to block Judyth from having an open forum?

If Judyth were truly as insignificant as Barb tries to portray her, surely there would be no need for an offensive in the first place.

Thanks.

Let's keep in mind also that Barb's axiom is a refusal to ask questions about the evidence. As a result, her posts tend to block any leads to conspiracy, save a few rabbit trails, which she apparently thinks will suffice. So while Barb is proclaiming that she wants to keep history 'pure' she is in fact making demands that we all walk back into the fold of the WCR.

Barb has managed to make herself, in fact, a great warrior for the protection of Marina's WC testimony from the challenges placed on every sentence by the statements of Judyth. It seems that the entire structure of the WC and the subsequent Ongoing Coverup are threatened by Judyth. Ironic that Madeleine Brown did not receive the Full Barb Offensive, just a bit of nipping at the heels over the Murchison party the night before the assassination. Perhaps the difference is that what Madeline had to say did not threaten the WCR?

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

JUDYTH REPLIES TO VIKLUND:

Dear Mr. Viklund:

You were asked a simple question: Who are you?

How easily you could have said, "I am a professional translator" or "I work in billings for a cell phone company," or --2001-- "I do investigations on the internet for hire, and keep results confidential."

(Maybe you would avoid revealing the last description, though all of the above are findable about you on the Internet.)

Mr. Vicklund, you complain that we have posted information about you. You then shoot the messengers.

You have asked a series of questions that I said I would answer if I knew who you are.

As we all know, I was describing what happened that did not get on paper. On paper, decisions were announced as we knew they would be..It takes months to find, finance, and buy a house in Sweden, Mr. Viklund. My son had to open a bank account and get a person number and move part of his business to Sweden to help me.

Why would he do such a thing if it is safe for me to return to the US?

You again repeat the claim that I have a mental disease.

I am not calling you names, but you continue to say bad things about me. Anything I said about you was in describing you in your own words. You advertised yourself as available for hire to get information on others, with results kept confidential, on the Internet, in a New York advertisement. That was to Americans.

McAdams is an American, last I looked. You said you had been lurking for years. Perhaps you have been doing lots of work for Dr. McAdams.

You have lived for years in Armenia--hardly a hotbed of information about the Kennedy assassination.

What got you interested, being a Swede living in Armenia who advertised himself for hire to obtain internet information on people--for a price!--all kept confidential?

Of course I expect you will reveal an occupation.

My Swedish friends are anxious to travel to your place of occupation and meet you in person. They were witnesses to the special negotiations that took place that you are telling the people on this forum are just wild stories.

Everyone in politics knows that what happens behind closed doors does not always make it into formal records. Nor will you have any officials telling you anything but what they want you to repeat to the public. You were never present in the meetings with my various handlers. I described to my friends what happened behind the scenes.

Official records do not describe what happens behind closed doors, as any reporter who attends even an American city council meeting well knows.

You are not a mere shoe salesman, Mr. Viklund.

You have made disparaging statements about me, and then you demand me to reply to a list of questions when you have yet to answer ONE of mine: WHO ARE YOU?

I have a right to ask. .

Imagine if all persons seeking political asylum had their records available to the public.

They are filled with names, places, incidents, events. their enemies can then direct retribution against those left behind.

People in their home countries can DIE if such things are revealed.

Mr. Viklund says my files are available to the public.

The files CAN be looked at by OFFICIALS.

Officials leak information. They can be bribed. They can be friends.

Oops...We're talking about things that happen 'off the record.' This is not looney thinking, Mr. Viklund. This is the real world where people can get information if they try hard enough.

You still haven't replied as to who you are.

Please reply.

My Swedish friends are anxious to meet you.

They are eager to meet you.

JVB

NOTE: Judyth has proven coordination between Viklund, Junkkarinen, and McAdams,

who appear to be collaborating in a systematic effort to discredit her,. In my opinion.

Under the circumstances, I believe she is entitled to the answer to her simple question:

   

                                    

Day 2

And on the one hand things are advancing rapidly.

Since the initial 24 hours, where I was described as an ”embarassment”, ”a dubious source” and a ”spy”, things have taken off with a blast.

Over the past 24 hours my career has now gone into overdrive. From ”$$$$ Mercenary for hire”, to ”Professional translator with inside access to asylum cases”, to ”Government agent - an insider”, among other things. Not only that, I've also taken part in a cover up. No, no, not that Cover Up, I was already part of that one, of course! But the cover up of some postings of mine in McAdams mod forum. Executed by even more postings from me in McAdams mod forum. And being on some sort of black list, or maybe I'm running the blacklist myself, it's a bit fuzzy...

Ya follow?? Hehehe, me neither...

I must say, I can't wait for the next 24 hours.

By then, I've now become reasonably well convinced, the shadowy figure of some dubious Swede named ”Vickland” or something similar, will be known to have been seen in very close proximity to the grassy knoll at Dealey Plaza in Dallas, on November 22, 1963.

In the fantasy world of Judyth Vary Baker anything is possible. But nonetheless I have to admit that there's a certain charm to be the central figure in her world of never ending conspiracies.

Moving back to reality for moment, none of the above surprise me at all, as far as Judyth Baker. This is what she does, her bread and butter. Anyone who dares challenge any of her fantasies will be subjected to this kind of activities. We've all seen it before, no need to go into that in detail. That there still seems to be even one person left who believes anything this woman says, is a complete mystery, in my view. The activities that she's been engaged in over the past decade should have ruled that out, years ago.

And I have to quote another email I just received:

”When Judyth Baker claims the earth is flat, we all know

what will happen to anyone claiming she is in error.”

Which indeed sums it up quite nicely.

Jack White, earlier in this thread, is probably spot on: ”Judyth suffers from Factitious Disorder”. There's no way you can behave the way she does, without having at least a couple of your horses not back in the stable. Of this, I have no doubts. But never mind all this hooopla from Judyth, there's something else here that I find deeply disappointing and disturbing, quite frankly bizarre.

Professor Fetzer is allowed to have any opinion he chooses about Judyth, no issue with that. According to himself earlier in this thread, he does believe her story, but have an open mind: ”Should I become convinced I am wrong about Judyth, I will certainly acknowledge it.”. Fair enough, a reasonable approach, it seems to me.

Now, when Judyth engages in all these attempts to discredit and slandering me, what does professor Fetzer do? Well, not only do you not throw all this nonsense in the garbage. Instead, without hesitation, you promptly promotes the stuff, by – against all rules of this forum, btw – immediately bring it forward to the forum.

Let me ask you, professor Fetzer, what is your purpose with doing this? If, by all means, I've missed something important as to how this will help you form an educated opionion on Judyth, then please, help me fill this void. Or, should I have missed how this might clarify anything about her stay in Sweden, well, you will have to help me out there as well.

Professor Fetzer, I decided to participate in the debate about Judyth, in dec of 08 and this time around, only because I recognized that her description of how this entire asylum issue had transpired, was so infested with untruthful statements and misrepresentations, that it was simply impossible not to contribute to straighten things out. And of this position I'm willing to debate with anyone who's interested in doing so. So, professor Fetzer, is it of any interest to you, that she systematically is avoiding to answer a few questions?

So what I'm trying to achieve, Mr Fetzer, is very simple: to get Judyth to answer a few questions about her stay in Sweden, that's all. If she is telling the truth then this is an excellent opportunity for her to show that. In which case I'll have to walk out of here in shame. If she can step up to the plate with satisfactory answers to these questions, she will not hear from me again, and that's a promise.

And let me ask you this, professor Fetzer: considering your open mind about Judyth, if it turns out that she has not been telling the truth about the asylum issue, would you then agree that this could potentially have serious implications as far as her credibility, more generally speaking?

Once again, these are my questions, to start with (all of them btw, derived from statements of hers that I consider not truthful):

1. Who; what authority, has decided that you are to travel in secrecy, ”for your protection”?

2. Why did your friends present – as I showed by quotation – a summon to a meeting, as a grant of asylum?

3. Why are you giving the impression that you received special treatment, when your case, in every possible respect, was a standard asylum seekers case?

4. Why are you saying that you could have stayed another ”year or two”, when, in fact, you by every possible means available to you, had exhausted your options to stay in Sweden?

5. Why are you suggesting that the two Swedish Court who decided in your case, disregarded the evidence and used a ”standard reply” to motivate their findings?

6. What is the name of the official who told you that the two Court decisions would be kept confidential?

In my view, these areas have a certain degree of importance, as far as her stay in Sweden. She has given all kinds of explanations and none of them can be corroborated with what is shown in the decisions from the Swedish Courts. Therefore, this is a good opportunity for her to straighten these things out, once and for all.

I have others as well, but as I stated yesterday, these would be a good start.

So, Mr Fetzer, will you assist in making these issues clarified?

[John Dolva]

Check out the current Armenia Sweden story as it unfolds.

edit add:Google it, there are continual updates and much material to absorb.

Edited March 12, 2010 by John Dolva

[Barb Junkkarinen]

Let's keep in mind also that Barb's axiom is a refusal to ask questions about the evidence. As a result, her posts tend to block any leads to conspiracy, save a few rabbit trails, which she apparently thinks will suffice. So while Barb is proclaiming that she wants to keep history 'pure' she is in fact making demands that we all walk back into the fold of the WCR.

Barb has managed to make herself, in fact, a great warrior for the protection of Marina's WC testimony from the challenges placed on every sentence by the statements of Judyth. It seems that the entire structure of the WC and the subsequent Ongoing Coverup are threatened by Judyth. Ironic that Madeleine Brown did not receive the Full Barb Offensive, just a bit of nipping at the heels over the Murchison party the night before the assassination. Perhaps the difference is that what Madeline had to say did not threaten the WCR?

What pure and utter ... not to mention made up ... bunk. LOL

Madeline actually knew the people, was involved with the people she claimed to be involved with and was well known in Dallas society. There is no equating between Madeline and Judyth. For that matter, there's no real relation between Judyth and anything to do with the assassination that has been documented. Perhaps you can chirp something up --- save for your usual line that Judyth is a "documented witness to LHO in New Orleans the summer of 1963."

What exactly do you have that *documents* Judyth even *knew* LHO that summer?

Nothing.

Lots of words, always. Any actual evidence. Almost never. Just commentary on other posters. Incessantly.

[Barb Junkkarinen]

If part of this beta testing proofreading book promotion is decided on semantics, fair 'nuff. Tusen Tak is correctly written tusen takk* in norwegian. Tak, from memory, means roof.

re: thinking in a language: I can only speak from experience. It took me a long time before I stopped slowly to think in swedish and then translate that to english when wanting to write or speak english. I still write in a kind of ''yoda speak'' at times. Swedish grammar is in parts very different from english. After I have had a conversation in swedish, at times, (and it happens to other memebers of the family too), I have difficulty in smoothly shifting to english, (which can be rather amusing at times and confusing to the english speaker I say something to).

edit:typos

edit add:*phonetically, roughly, ''tuck'', ie...

My husband is Finnish, when his family moved to the US he was just 5-1/2. No one spoke a word of English. My mother-in-law was able to become essentially like a native speaker and did think in English, for the most part, after many years. My father-in-law, not so much. You could almost watch him translating from Finnish to English in his head sometimes, and sentences came out kinda cute on occasion as he would do a direct translation out of the words. My husband still speaks Finnish with basic fluency but has done his thinking in English since early on as he was so young. His Finnish reading and writing abilities are very poor ... don't ever let that man read off a menu for you when in Finland, and if you want him to write a note in Finnish on the bottom of a Christmas card to relatives there that know no English .... start in September.<g>

I marvel at people who are fluent in several languages, like Doug Weldon's girlfriend!

Bests,

Barb :-)

[John Dolva]

Yup, it's got a lot to do with at what age one started learning the new language. There are certain ages where you are bordering into the territory of you can't teach an old dog new tricks. Well you can, but it doesn't happen much.

[Barb Junkkarinen]

My question: Why would ANYONE speak to a total stranger (?) in a FOREIGN LANGUAGE?

Forget an exact translation. I would consider such a person weird.

Jack,

That was one of the questions Mary Ferrell asked Judyth too. Mary thought it extremely bizarre ... especially for a young girl in a strange city...

Barb :-)

Mary took a course in Russian so she could translate Russian documents. She learned to read

Russian well...but COULD NEVER LEARN TO UNDERSTAND NOR SPEAK the language. As a result

of her study, she said it was absurd that LHO learned to speak Russian BY READING BOOKS as

the WC alleged. Mary's IQ far exceeded either LHO or JVB. Mary had a photographic memory,

and was able to reconstruct what any document said merely by reading it.

Agreed, Jack. Mary did not believe Judyth could think in Russian ... here is the passage from her e-mail about Judyth in Dec 2001 where she comments on her own training in Russian, Judyth telling her she was thinking in Russian, and the comment about why Judyth would speak to a strange man too ... all in the same paragraph:

From Mary Ferrell e-mail, December 12, 2001:

I asked her why she would use the Russian language to a man

she didn't know standing in a line at the post office in Louisiana.

She claimed that Dr. Oschner and his colleagues had insisted that she

study Russian and become fluent in the language. She never gave a

coherent answer about why she was instructed to learn Russian. She

did ramble off several portions of sentences that did not make sense.

She said, in effect, that she was "thinking" in Russian. (I studied

three years of High School Latin, four years of High School Spanish

and, following the assassination, I used every available text book,

audio aide and visual aides to intensively study Russian for one year.

I was only able to think in English at the end of that year.)

Bests,

Barb :-)

Thanks for the quotes from Mary. Sounds exactly what she told me

except not in the context of MVB, but LHO.

Did Mary say more about JVB that you have saved?

Yes, Jack, she did ... and I will post something for you here. In December 2001, Mary had had enough of Judyth. And she wrote and sent an email with an attachment to several people. There was a hue and cry from Judyth and her team that Mary had not written it, that someone had intercepted what Mary really wrote and switched it out for something else, or that someone else had commandeered her computer ... the long rambles we've seen here pale in comparison to what went on. Ultimately, Paul Seaton, undertook looking at the whole magilla back in 2008 and with the help of some screen shots from Debra Conway's computer, and most importantly, with the document and being able to get down into what all data had been recorded in the bowels of the file as Mary had worked on it, he was able to show, without a doubt, that Mary wrote this document, worked on it for several hours, he could even tell how many times it had been save along the way, and that it was then sent out from her computer.

And I have all of that information should Judyth decide to try the same excuses and allegations again. I hope she will spare us, as there is no doubt this came from Mary, and there are those of us who heard Mary make comments about Judyth in person after this. It was all very upsetting to Mary and she didn't want to even hear the name anymore.

John McA was one of the original recipients Mary sent it to ... he asked Mary if she wanted/if he could post this. He has posted that email in the past ... in which Mary tells him, yes, post it.

Subject: Mary Ferrell on Judyth

From: john.mcad...@marquette.edu (John McAdams)

Date: 12/12/01 10:18 PM Eastern Standard Time

Message-id: <3c181cef.33104434@news.newsguy.com>

The following was sent as an e-mail attachment from Mary Ferrell to me

and a few other people this afternoon. It is posted here with her

explicit permission.

Wednesday, December 12, 2001

The last thing I would ever want to do is harm another person

by my careless words or deeds. I have tried to refrain from talking

about Judyth Vary Baker and her alleged association with Lee Harvey

Oswald for more than a year now - afraid that I might say or do

something that would hurt her or her family. I have been uncertain as

to her motives and preferred to believe that she was delusional and,

although I believed she had actually known and probably worked for a

short time with Lee Harvey Oswald, her "affair" with Lee Oswald was

all something she dreamed up.

Judyth came to my home more than a year ago, late in the

afternoon in November 2000. A charming young woman named Debbee

Reynolds accompanied Judyth. Debbee was and is an employee of

American Airlines. Debbee had managed to obtain free transportation

on American Airlines for Judyth to come from Layfayette, Louisiana, to

visit her sister, Mrs. Tony (Lynda) Bauer, in Dallas.

One of the first things Judyth did when entering my home was

look at a set of the 26 volumes in shelves adjacent to my front door.

Judyth said, "Oh, is that what they look like? I've seen pictures of

them but I've never actually seen them before. I've never read

anything. I just know everything that happened because I knew Lee."

She seated herself on the floor close to my feet and started

telling all about her wonderful love affair with Lee Harvey Oswald.

She told how she met him in April of 1963 in a New Orleans or

Metairie, Louisiana, post office, while standing at the General

Delivery window. She said she and her soon-to-be husband, Robert

Baker, had chosen to write to each other through General Delivery

using code names. One of the names used was similar to Rorke and

either she or Lee misunderstood and thought the name being used was

Alexander Rorke. Judyth said it had been planned that Alexander Rorke

would pick up Lee Oswald in a plane in some part of the Yucatan,

Mexico. She was so startled that she dropped a rolled-up newspaper

that was under her arm and Lee Oswald stooped and retrieved it. When

he handed it to her, she thanked him in Russian.

I asked her why she would use the Russian language to a man

she didn't know standing in a line at the post office in Louisiana.

She claimed that Dr. Oschner and his colleagues had insisted that she

study Russian and become fluent in the language. She never gave a

coherent answer about why she was instructed to learn Russian. She

did ramble off several portions of sentences that did not make sense.

She said, in effect, that she was "thinking" in Russian. (I studied

three years of High School Latin, four years of High School Spanish

and, following the assassination, I used every available text book,

audio aide and visual aides to intensively study Russian for one year.

I was only able to think in English at the end of that year.)

When talking about Alexander Rorke, she said she was to meet

Lee and Rorke in Cancun, Mexico, following the assassination. She had

a book that she claimed David Ferrie had given to her to use as her

pass into Eglin Air Force Base in Florida where she was to be put

aboard a plane and flown to Mexico to meet with Lee. "Eglin Air Force

Base" was stamped on the spine of the book.

I questioned Judyth about her first meeting with Oswald and

the exact date it occurred. She claimed it was within a day or two of

his arrival in New Orleans in April 1963. She also claimed she

accompanied him to visit his father's grave but never gave an exact

location of the grave. (According to the Warren Commission's

investigation, Lee visited his aunt, Mrs. Arthur A. P. Alice Barre, on

St. Charles Avenue in New Orleans, to learn where his father was

buried. Judyth did not answer me when I asked if she was with him

when he visited his aunt.)

At one point, Judyth said, "I can tell you where Lee was on

the two occasions when you don't know where he was." I asked her how

she knew that there were two periods when I didn't know where he was.

She stuttered a bit and finally said that Martin Shakleford had

questioned her from my chronologies. However, she never gave any

explanation of when those two periods were nor where she knew that Lee

was during the two periods.

She said 60 Minutes had intended to film her story but some

unnamed persons had stopped 60 Minutes. She seemed to blame David

Lifton because she said Lifton's book would not be published if her

book were published. She seemed to think Debra Conway had some part

in her dismissal from 60 Minutes because Debra would no longer have

Lancers if Judyth's book were published.

Judyth said the most ironic thing about the whole thing was

that CBS made the decision not to use her in a film on Lee's birthday,

October 18th, a month before her visit to me.

She begged me to help her get her book published. I told her

I would have to read the book first but finally agreed to write a note

to a friend of mine in New York, Frank Weimann of the Literary Group.

On November 27th, I wrote a short note to Frank Weimann on a scrap of

paper. I have since learned that Judyth has circulated Xerox copies

of that note as proof that I endorse her story.

My note read: "Nov. 27, 2000 Dear Frank, I think you

should take a look at this woman's story. I believe she is credible

and I believe her story will sell. Best regards, Mary Ferrell" I

later learned that she placed a small photo of herself in a pose that

looked very much like an early photo of Marina on the note before she

sent it to Frank. I later asked Frank to make a copy of Judyth's

book for me since she refused to let me look at the book. I have

never seen any portion of the book and I now have no desire to see it.

She and Howard Platzman immediately started sending notes to

Frank Weimann wanting to know when he was going to sell the book,

apparently wanting advances. Frank finally sent the whole book back

to them and refused to work with them. Frank apologized to me and I

told him I was surprised that he had tolerated them as long as he had.

Frank told me that the book would have sold but needed rewriting,

which they refused to do.

Until now, I have discussed this matter with only four

people: Robert Chapman, David Lifton, Debra Conway and Louis Girdler.

They have all kept my disclosures in confidence because I begged them

not to do anything that might cause Judyth to harm herself.

It has now reached the point where I believe Howard Platzman

and Judyth are using what they think is a form of blackmail to prod me

into endorsing Judyth and her entire story. Howard wrote a long email

message to me indicating that I must go on camera or write a message

saying that I believed Judyth's story or I would be branded a demented

old woman. Judyth came to visit me, unannounced, Monday night and she

said almost the same words that Howard had used. Then she brought up

a name from my past - the name of a woman I had not even thought of in

almost 50 years. I asked her where she got that name and she said,

"Carol Anne told me." I immediately said to my son, "Judyth is

leaving. Will you see her to the door." Jimmy escorted her to the

door. I called Carol Anne and told her what had happened. Carol Anne

became almost hysterical and said, "Mother, you know I never said

that." I explained that I had not believed she had said it. Carol

Anne said, "Mother, those people act like they are crazy." My son

Jimmy later said he thinks they act like they might be dangerous.

I want to make it clear that I have never believed Judyth's

"story." I have believed that she knew Lee Harvey Oswald, either as a

co-worker or as an employee she remembered after the assassination. I

have NEVER believed the story of the mad, passionate love affair. I

can account for almost every minute of Lee's life from the time he

joined the Marine Corps until the day of his death. There was

absolutely no time for nights of passionate love and Russian poetry

reading. I do not believe that they had sex in the back of trucks in

Adrian Alba's garage. At the very most, Judyth knew Lee a total of

less than five months. She claims that she talked to Lee just two

days before the assassination by way of a Mafia wire-service phone

line. I do not believe this.

Judyth claims that Lee introduced her to David Ferrie. She

claims that Ferrie introduced her to "Sparky" Rubenstein. She claims

that Lee told her that Carlos Marcello called Jack Ruby when Lee was a

child in Fort Worth and asked Ruby to keep an eye on Lee. She claims

that she last saw Ruby in New Orleans in June 1963.

She claims that as soon as she arrived in New Orleans, in

April 1963, Dr. Oschner got her an apartment where prostitutes were

living and the place was immediately raided and everyone taken to jail

except Judyth. She says Lee got her another apartment. They then

lived close to each other and would ride the bus from Reily out to the

end of the line and ride back so they could sit together.

Her first job, after arriving in New Orleans, was as a

waitress in a hamburgher restaurant in Metairie near Carlos Marcello's

Town and Country Motel. She speaks very familiarly of Carlos Marcello

and says that Lee acted as a courier for Carlos and Lee's uncle, Dutz

Murret.

Her story of Lee's reading to her from the small gray book,

The Queen of Spaces, did startle me because I had seen either this

book or a replica of it in Ruth Paine's living room two or three years

following the assassination. Judyth claimed that the library in

Lafayette, Louisiana, did not have the 26 volumes of the Warren

Commission's work and did not have a copy of The Queen of Spades.

When I asked her if she had tried the university library where she

worked, she said they had nothing. Louis Girdler called the

university library and talked to a woman named Sandy who worked there

and they had everything on the assassination and also had a copy of

Pushkin's play, The Queen of Spades.

Judyth tells a fantastic story about the man who wrote

Andersonville - MacKinlay Kantor. She claims that she would walk with

him through a garden, holding a tape recorder and Kantor would dictate

into the recorder. She says that Kantor "fell in love" with her. She

claims she was still a teenager when this happened.

She claims she wrote to Bertrand Russell about her reluctance

to have sex with Lee because she and he were both married at the time.

She says that Russell wrote to her that she must not let anything hold

her back if they were in love. They must have sex. Joan Mellen was

married to Ralph Schoenman for a number of years. Schoenman was the

top aide to Bertrand Russell during the last years of Russell's life.

Schoenman told Joan that during the period Judyth claims this happened

Russell was not even able to read his own mail and he NEVER wrote such

a letter.

I could go on and on for pages about her truly incredible

stories. I just want to emphasize that I have never told her I

believed she and Lee had a romantic relationship. I have assured her

that I do believe she knew him. I can't explain her knowledge about

the book I saw in Ruth Paine's house between Christmas and New Year's

of 1967. I believe the little book was unique and I know that Judyth

described it perfectly. With few exceptions, Judyth's accounts of her

relationship with Lee could have been concocted from things that have

been published. She has repeatedly said that she loves me because I

want to clear Lee's name and reputation. I have only said that I do

not believe that Lee planned, executed and covered up the

assassination alone. I am not at all certain that Lee's name and

reputation can be "cleared."

There is more ... regarding an incident that happened in April 2002.

Bests,

Barb :-)

[Barb Junkkarinen]

I just received this in e-mail ... Judyth's new book has been delayed again.

From Trine Day's website:

"Howdy One & All,

What can I say but, sorry. TrineDay has to delay the release of the much-awaited book, Me & Lee, by Judyth Vary Baker. The project has proven itself to be daunting; the amount of documentation has been overwhelming. We are a small company working with limited funds and apologize to our readers and folks that have been expecting this book since last November.

The book has been expanded and we are endeavoring to bring out the best book we can. Any orders that have been placed with us, our author or through the book distribution system will be filled.

A concern is that people may have moved, so please keep in touch with your seller and apprise them of any address changes. Anybody that has ordered through TrineDay.com and would like a refund, or a problem with any bookseller over this book, please contact me.

I have been looking over the shoulder of the talented team that’s working on the Me & Lee, and it is going to be a very exciting, revelatory and amazing book. One that changes history, as we know it, plus a story that you will never forget.

Peace,

Kris Millegan

TrineDay

1.800.556.2012

541.744.0090

publisher@trineday.net

www.trineday.com"

Deja vu'.

I also received a note saying:

Could you please tell Fetzer and Judyth at the Ed Forum that they should stop posting old crap and concentrate so Judyth can help Trine Day finish HER book ...

I agree.

Barb :-)

[Barb Junkkarinen]

Yup, it's got a lot to do with at what age one started learning the new language. There are certain ages where you are bordering into the territory of you can't teach an old dog new tricks. Well you can, but it doesn't happen much.

John,

Can you read and translate Swedish?

Bests,

Barb :-)