Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile

[Jack White]

Lee and Harvey had skulls that were different shapes. Adult skulls do not change shape.

Jack

[Jack White]

All,

Taking a modest break, I must say that I am astounded at Judyth's resilience under this barrage, which has been going on in relation to her since 2004! I doubt that anyone who is challenging her could do anywhere near matching her performance in dealing with these issues, which date back to 1963 and often involve minutia. I would not be able to do anything remotely as thorough and as detailed as has Judyth over this extraordinary interval of time. I would point out, moreover, that her information about cancer research and bioweapons is almost certainly the real reason for her ongoing harassment and the controversy that swirls around her, as my psy ops expert has observed. I would ask Jack to bear in mind that this may well be the real reason for all of this blizzard of attacks and attempts to discredit her. As far as I am concerned, she is more competent and capable at conducting research than 95% of the members of this forum, many of whom fall short by comparison. Therefore, I want to emphasize that she has already advanced many leads and new identifications by role for familiar and unfamiliar names alike. Jack is asking about her identification of those in various photographs, which is closely related to John Armstrong's research on "the two Oswalds". Before we hear from Judyth on this subject, I want to remind everyone of Jack's photographic portfolio, which includes these images, and to thank Kathy Beckett for an excellent link to an introduction of Armstrong's work, which I recommend that everyone who is interested in this thread should read in the next few days.

Jim

Dr. Fetzer,

For a fairly quick read on Armstrong's work, this is perfect.

http://web.archive.org/web/20071130023401/...m/harveyandlee/

Kathy

Thanks, Kathy. Jim Hargrove's summaries are excellent. They mostly predate the book

and are based on speeches given by John before the book was written.

Jack

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

I don't know, Jack. You of all people know how often photos in this case have been faked.

How do you know which of these is real and which is Memorex? I worry about this. Are we

going to have to go through chain-of-custody studies about some of these? I wish that you

had put this off, at least until we had heard from Judyth. But we shall see what we shall see.

Lee and Harvey had skulls that were different shapes. Adult skulls do not change shape.

Jack

[Jack White]

All,

Taking a modest break, I must say that I am astounded at Judyth's resilience under this barrage, which has been going on in relation to her since 2004! I doubt that anyone who is challenging her could do anywhere near matching her performance in dealing with these issues, which date back to 1963 and often involve minutia. I would not be able to do anything remotely as thorough and as detailed as has Judyth over this extraordinary interval of time. I would point out, moreover, that her information about cancer research and bioweapons is almost certainly the real reason for her ongoing harassment and the controversy that swirls around her, as my psy ops expert has observed. I would ask Jack to bear in mind that this may well be the real reason for all of this blizzard of attacks and attempts to discredit her. As far as I am concerned, she is more competent and capable at conducting research than 95% of the members of this forum, many of whom fall short by comparison. Therefore, I want to emphasize that she has already advanced many leads and new identifications by role for familiar and unfamiliar names alike. Jack is asking about her identification of those in various photographs, which is closely related to John Armstrong's research on "the two Oswalds". Before we hear from Judyth on this subject, I want to remind everyone of Jack's photographic portfolio, which includes these images, and to thank Kathy Beckett for an excellent link to an introduction of Armstrong's work, which I recommend that everyone who is interested in this thread should read in the next few days.

Jim

Dr. Fetzer,

For a fairly quick read on Armstrong's work, this is perfect.

http://web.archive.org/web/20071130023401/...m/harveyandlee/

Kathy

Jim...I do NOT challenge JVB. I simply ask questions for which she ought to have answers.

If she really knew Lee as well as claimed, surely she can identify him from photos. Surely

she knows whether she was present at the Trade Mart during the leafleting episode, regardless

of whether she was in a photo. Surely she would recognize of photo of Lee taken on a day that

she had been with him.

I am not even asking tough questions. Bill Kelly would probably want to know not only

which Bond movie she saw, at what theater, during work or in the evening, how did they

get to the theater, what was the day and date, and did he buy her popcorn.

[Jack White]

I don't know, Jack. You of all people know how often photos in this case have been faked.

How do you know which of these is real and which is Memorex? I worry about this. Are we

going to have to go through chain-of-custody studies about some of these? I wish that you

had put this off, at least until we had heard from Judyth. But we shall see what we shall see.

Lee and Harvey had skulls that were different shapes. Adult skulls do not change shape.

Jack

Jim...my Oswald research has been around for at least 30 years. What I have been posting

are very old studies. I tried to present my LHO research to the HSCA but was told I WOULD

BE HELD IN CONTEMPT OF CONGRESS IF I MENTIONED MY OSWALD RESEARCH.

My studies are well known. I produced two videos about the multiple Oswalds and faked

photos. The provenance of the photos is well known. The faked photos are well known.

I am disappointed that you are not familiar with my work.

My videos are available free online at:

http://www.jfkstudies.org/studies3.html

Jack

Edited March 8, 2010 by Jack White

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

Oswald had many imposters and your work on his identity has been vastly greater than mine. Your questions are very good ones, where my only thought is that, by drawing your conclusion before Judyth has answered them, you are rushing the cadence just the least bit. She is principally a witness, not an investigator, where asking her to identify the various photographs that most closely resemble the man she knew in New Orleans is obviously a crucial question. I have asked her to do that and will be glad to pursue any other questions that you would like me to pose You are the expert on Oswald, far more so than am I. Whether or not we are destined to agree about everything that Judyth has to say, your opinions about her are extremely important to me and to everyone else who studies the case. I still have a great deal to learn from you and from Judyth and from other sources about these things, where I am hopeful this process will enable us to disentangle conflicting elements and do greater justice to Judyth and to history.

I don't know, Jack. You of all people know how often photos in this case have been faked.

How do you know which of these is real and which is Memorex? I worry about this. Are we

going to have to go through chain-of-custody studies about some of these? I wish that you

had put this off, at least until we had heard from Judyth. But we shall see what we shall see.

Lee and Harvey had skulls that were different shapes. Adult skulls do not change shape.

Jack

Jim...my Oswald research has been around for at least 30 years. What I have been posting

are very old studies. I tried to present my LHO research to the HSCA but was told I WOULD

BE HELD IN CONTEMPT OF CONGRESS IF I MENTIONED MY OSWALD RESEARCH.

My studies are well known. I produced two videos about the multiple Oswalds and faked

photos. The provenance of the photos is well known. The faked photos are well known.

I am disappointed that you are not familiar with my work.

My videos are available free online at:

http://www.jfkstudies.org/studies3.html

Jack

Edited March 8, 2010 by James H. Fetzer

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

Here are more replies from Judyth about the Mexico City trip:

NO NEW EVIDENCE THAT CAN HELP RESEARCHERS DETERMINE IF LEE WENT TO MEXICO CITY OR NOT?

THINK BIOWEAPON....THINK OCHSNER...THEN READ....

The divorce 'rumor'...Lee crossed the border by car, not by bus. He rented or was given a car to use on the Mexican side of Nuevo Laredo. He did several things at that time, including visiting the USPHS station, telling someone there where he left the bioweapon when it wasn't handed off as planned. I have to find those documents but they exist in W.C. files.

Nobody has been able to account for Lee’s reported stop at the US Public Health Service station at the border, and in fact, the information was later quashed. The visit of course occurred.

There he reported leaving the bioweapon, due to its dangerous contents, and revealed its location at the souvenir shop, to an unknown authority. There is some evidence for this below (The Affidavit of William Kline denies this, but read both affidavits):

The following affidavit was executed by William Kline on July 31, 1964.

PRESIDENT’S COMMISSION ON THE ASSASSINATION OF AFFIDAVIT

PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY STATE OF TEXAS, County of Webb, as:

William Kline, being duly sworn, deposes and says that:

4. With respect to Lee Harvey Oswald, I have no personal knowledge

whatsoever of any check made on him by the United States Public Health

Service, Laredo, Texas, either upon his entry into or exit from Mexico in 1963.

Signed this 31st day of July 1964.

( S ) William Kline, WILLIAM KLINE.

Affidavit of Oran Pugh

The following affidavit was executed by Oran Pugh on August 26, 1964.

PRESIDENT’S COMMISSION ON THE ASSASSINATION OF AFFIDAVIT

PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY STATE OF TEXAS, County of Webb, as:

Oran Pugh, being duly sworn, deposes and says that:

1. I am Agent in Charge, United States Customs, Laredo, Texas.

2. Subsequent to the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, I received

many telephone inquiries from news reporters from various parts of the United States.

. . .

4. In any event, all information supplied by me to news reporters was not based

upon my personal knowledge; rather, all such information was supplied to me by my

assistant, William Kline…

. . .

( b ) Lee Harvey Oswald checked into the United States Public Health Service,

International Bridge, Laredo, Texas, upon his re-entry into the United States in October 1963.

( c ) The Immigration and Naturalization Service does not presently have, nor has it ever

maintained a file containing information concerning Oswald’s trip to Mexico in 1963.

Signed this 26th day of August 1964.

(S) Oran Pugh, ORAN PUGH J. E. Curry

QUOTE FROM MY MANUSCRPT:

Lee also told me he had learned, while in Mexico, how we could easily obtain quickie divorces just across the border. After the assassination, The Warren Commission could not ignore reports (called “rumors” by the FBI) that Lee had asked about their divorce laws at some border towns. The FBI announced that “rumors” at one town had to refer to a man called Harvey Larry Rudcon, divorced three years earlier, in 1960. Bad roads stopped the FBI from looking into “rumors” in another border town.

REF: Commission Exhibit 2123

0/03/63: According to an FBI report located at the National Archives by Mr. [John] Armstrong in May 1999, the FBI had tracked Oswald's return trip to the U.S. from Mexico City, indicating that Oswald took a La Frontera bus from Mexico City… arriving at the border town on Nuevo Laredo on the morning of 10/3/63.

Of interest: Attached photo is view from Reily's that I photographed...The dark building not very far down the street is Eli Lily's. Lee only had to go there to pick up chemicals for us. He also dropped off materials there. Talk about convenient! Somebody at Eli Lilly's was involved in supplying the project with untraceable chemicals.

You have Banister's right around the corner.

You have HUAC--Willis' office--right across the street.

You have Crescent City garage next door, where CIA and FBI and other agency vehicles park every day and get maintenance. They are actually renting space there, out of the sun.

You have Federal Building offices...All the intelligence community...

And you have Lee H. Oswald, 'defector' working for the anti-communist Reily Coffee Company--they are charter members of Ochsner's INCA organization.

How involved was the busy Ochsner with Lee Oswald?

Attached see Ochsner's photo on the back of the record PORTRAIT IN RED--where Lee's "debate' with Bringuier takes place.

At one point the voice of Alton Ochsner is heard on the recording.

What was the busy doctor doing at an obscure WDSU recording, later turned into a INCA recording?

What it meant is that Ochsner was perhaps the only person who knew Lee was a returned defector.

FACT: Ochsner had met and knew Lee Oswald BEFORE the recording was made.

NEW EVIDENCE? THE LINKS BETWEEN ALL OF THIS WERE PREVIOUSLY UNKNOWN UNTIL I SHOWED THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN OCHSNER, OSWALD, AND THE PROJECT...MOST OF THE SUPPORTING INFORMATION WAS RARELY, IF EVER, MENTIONED. NOBODY COULD TIE IT TOGETHER BEFORE NOW. BUT YOU ARE STARTING TO GET THE BIGGER PICTURE.

BARB WILL TRY TO BRING UP SOME SILLY SIDE ISSUE, SUCH AS THE SIZE SOCKS I SAID I WORE AT ONE TIME IS INACCURATE...OR LIKE THE INDIANA BIOLOGICAL ASSOCIATION--A LOOSELY-KNIT ORGANIZATION I MET AT THE UNIVERSITY OF NOTRE DAME--SHE COULD NOT FIND THEM REGISTERED, SO SHE SAID THEY DID NOT EXIST AND THAT I LIED... ETC, ETC...ANYTHING TO DIVERT FROM THE BIG PICTURE...

JVB

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

More from Judyth about McAdams' disinformation and Dr. Mary Sherman:

Attached: WALL STREET JOURNAL FRONT PAGE STORY ON DR. MARY SHERMAN'S MURDER AND

CALLING HER A CANCER RESEARCHER. COLLECTED FOR JVB BY RESEARCHER TOM ROZOFF.

HERE IS WHAT MCADAMS POSTED:

From: John McAdams (john.mcadams@marquette.edu)

> Subject: What's wrong with Judyth's account?

> View: Complete Thread (96 articles)

> Original Format

> Newsgroups: alt.assassination.jfk

> Date: 2003-07-09 21:19:07 PST

>

>

> I'm posting this as the beginning of critique of the "Judyth" account.

> It's intended to be a list of the problems with her story.

>

> Please, anybody feel free to jump in and add items, or contest any.

>

> ...snip....

>

> IMPLAUSIBLE ELEMENTS IN HER STORY

>

> 1. The CIA hiring a girl right out of high school to be a cancer

> researcher.

>

> 2. David Ferrie as a cancer researcher.

>

> 3. Mary Sherman as a cancer researcher.

> (Sherman was a well-known orthopedic surgeon.)

==LIES SUCH AS THIS WERE USED TO DISCREDIT ME AND WERE SPREAD

THROUGHOUT THE RESEARCH COMMUNITY SO THAT GOOD MEN SUCH AS

JACK WHITE--AND OTHERS--MADE DECISIONS BASED ON WHAT WAS SPREAD

FROM PERSON TO PERSON....

THERE WERE MANY OTHER OUTRIGHT LIES AND DISTORTIONS.

NOTE: Articles proving Dr. Mary Sherrman was more than a mere orthopaedic

surgeon, as McAdams has claimed for years; maybe he changed it, but doubt it.

DR. MARY SHERMAN WAS MY FRIEND AND I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW SHE WAS

MURDERED THE DAY THE WARREN COMMISSION CAME TO GET TESTIMONIES

BECAUSE SHE WAS A GREAT RISK TO BLOWING THE CASE WIDE OPEN.

NOTE: LEE'S UNCLE KNEW THROUGH MARCELLO WHAT LEE WAS DOING WITH

DAVID FERRIE BUT COULD NOT SPEAK OF IT TO THE W.C. HE DIED OF SUDDEN

CANCER IN OCT. 1964. WE NOW KNOW THAT HE WAS HEALTHY IN JULY 1963,

DRIVING LEE AND FAMILY AND COUSINS TO SPRING HILL SEMINARY.

WE KNOW HE WAS HEALTHY WHEN HE WAS EXAMINED IN NEW ORLEANS BY THE

WARREN COMMISSION IN JULY, 1964.

HE GAVE A LENGTHY TESTIMONY AND INDICATED NO ILLNESS. LESS THAN TWO

AND A HALF MONTHS LATER, HE WAS DEAD.

--------------------------

This is what we are up against.

1) There is one truth.

2) Those who say I said something else can create all sorts of varying statements

they can claim I made. They will not have documentation...for the only documentation

they have is from, for example, McAdams, who uses corrupted sources (such as Barb,

\who will report a portion of her 'research' but only that portion she wants out there.)

Their work will be for nothing if they erase it or pretend an objection hasn't been answered.

Thank you with all my heart for what you are doing.

THIS IS FOR NOT ME, THIS IS FOR LEE OSWALD, ALL THE WITNESSES WHO HAVE SUFFERED

AND DIED ALREADY.

THIS IS FOR LEE'S FAMILY. THIS IS FOR THE TRUTH.

Jack White made a telling statement. He told Jim to ignore me so everybody can go back to

'research.'

This is not a business.

The reputation of Jack is at stake because he came against me.

Their egos are on the line.

This is why Lifton decided to do what he did--his book was no good anymore.

Note Lifton did not publish.

He became angry at me for its being cancelled--the publishers had seen my book.

You will hear that my first book was 'junk’--and it was. I was not about to have the book stolen.

I had already experienced having a false story circulated by my own agent.

That agent also tried to force '60 Minutes' to use his friend, Mr. Rosmarin, who had produced

for '60 Minutes' in the past. '60 Minutes' had assigned somebody else.

My agent insisted on a lot of money for Rosmarin instead or 'no deal.'

This--and writing 'Cancun' and removing all evidence from my original manuscript and padding

it with junk--was the last straw.

Oh, he also wanted 22 1/2% commission and eternal rights to my life story!

He was fired.

Then he sent around nasty emails to people saying I wanted money and that he no longer believed me!

That started the pain.

'Cancun' has followed ever since.

Note that the Mayaland hotel and Kanj-Kun village was explained to Barb several times before.

She chooses to cite 'Cancun' as an anachronism anyway.

-------------------------------

RE COLOR-CODED MICE, accused in 2007 in a newspaper article that a batch of released mice

--about 200 of them, actually, had been set loose in the science building (true)--and that therefore

I could not tell my mice apart....

But I had color-coded them 'just in case' anything happened, as a portion of the attached article

makes clear. It shows my mice were COLOR CODED for the various lung cancer and steroid and

hypothermia experiments. This Barb will not mention--just that the mice got loose and how could

my experiments be valid, etc...

This was just one batch--99--sent from the bank--doctors donated more batches after this article

came out. I attach part of that article...I don't have the other part, which also mentions that I was

tested at reading 1,600 words a minute...McAdams & Co. called this article a 'blurb' and a 'puff piece.'

But the reporter was thorough and quoted me and my teachers correctly.

Edited March 8, 2010 by James H. Fetzer

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

Some further preliminary reflections from Judtyh about "Harvey & Lee"

Title: The 'Harvey' question...Note the 'H' on the 'Catholic' Mexican Tourist isa application

Note that I told you Lee hated his middle name 'Harvey" which Armstrong does not want to hear,

not one little bit.

Note that I told you that Lee avoided writing out "Harvey" whenever he could and just put down

an "H" and that if a letter that wasn't 'official'--such as that UT letter--had "Harvey' in the signature,

it was probably a fake.

This document, which you have already posted, shows Lee wrote only an "H" and then was required

to fill in his full middle name.

Would a guy always using the name "Harvey" do that?

I am sorry that I have information that goes against the idea of a Harvey and Lee as presented by

the Harvey and Lee book. I can account for a lot of it. If I had his book, I could account for more,

but it doesn't matter. Lee joked about his middle name when I first met him and told me he didn't

like the name "Harvey." That was enough for me to years later be able to report the fact that

Harvey and Lee, per se, is not the true situation.

I only ask that you look at his documents, and also realize the linguistics matter of "Lee" in Russian.

They avoid saying 'Lee.' That does not mean that Lee loved the name 'Harvey' and WAS "Harvey"

whenh some mean fellow was "Lee." However it is true Lee was impersonated and even welcomed it,

because it helped hide his own activities.

----------------------

This was the reason Jack White and DellaRosa kicked me off their forum and erased all the files I wrote

that pretty well prove there were impersonations, especially at the end, and even while Lee was in the

USSR--but Lee said those impersonations were so he could lead a 'normal life when he returned...

He had documents they have apparently destroyed that 'proved' Lee was in the States...This was to be

used to help him present as if he had not been in the Soviet Union upon his return.

I think same of them were income tax returns and we will never see them, I believe they will try to fake

anything along that line.

Because I can explain many so-called dual records--and Dr. John Williams has some of those details--plus,

as I said, Lee said his mother had a thyroid problem that was ageing her before her time...Anyway, it would

be great to compile files and evidence and statements proving Lee had cover built up for his return--if he

returned alive--from the USSR.

There was a shift in administration and Lee had to use a code word HEMINGWAY to get help to get home.

People think Hemingway killed himself, but the see-aye-eh did it...Hemingway lived in Cuba and was an

informant...I learned about Hemingway when Lee and I spent an afternoon at Hotel Montleone, where

many famous writers worked, such as Wm. Faulkner, and at that time he brought up Hemingway.

The problem is organizing the information. It has come out in dribs and drabs depending on what somebody

was interested in.

Please remember, Lee was impersonated, and near the end, to his great disadvantage. But most of the time,

it was for other reasons. For example, to hide his presence in New Orleans, somebody was paid to pose as

him in Texas while he was in Mexico City. this was for Lee's plausible denial of ever being in Mexico City if

something went wrong. He also had to purchase krebiozin (laetrile) which is illegal in the US to have a

plausible excuse for being in Mexico at all.

A lot of operatives had excuses or covers set up. They act as if Lee had none when they know better

(I mean, that the INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES know better)....

[Pamela Brown]

Judyth responds to more questions from Jack White and from Barbara Junkkarinen:

Barb is also misrepresenting the matter in Sweden. She avoids the fact that she and others accused me of being an illegal alien. Pamela and Shackleford did not trot the information out to create trouble, but in my behalf.

I am a witness to the appalling treatment of Judyth while she was in asylum. I was aware of the process that was actually taking place, and of the contrast with the dehumanizing dismissal of her need for asylum along with attempts to actually track her down while in asylum. This time respresents one of the worst abuses of 'research' process that I have ever seen, even surpassing the sandbagging of Anna Lewis. It is evident that that Judyth's finding asylum generated fury in the Ongoing Coverup.

I see that "Glenn Vicklund", one of the players in that situation, has popped up again on aaj:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassi...e70075393fc8af#

[Barb Junkkarinen]

Judyth responds to more questions from Jack White and from Barbara Junkkarinen:

Barb is also misrepresenting the matter in Sweden. She avoids the fact that she and others accused me of being an illegal alien. Pamela and Shackleford did not trot the information out to create trouble, but in my behalf.

I am a witness to the appalling treatment of Judyth while she was in asylum. I was aware of the process that was actually taking place, and of the contrast with the dehumanizing dismissal of her need for asylum along with attempts to actually track her down while in asylum. This time respresents one of the worst abuses of 'research' process that I have ever seen, even surpassing the sandbagging of Anna Lewis. It is evident that that Judyth's finding asylum generated fury in the Ongoing Coverup.

I see that "Glenn Vicklund", one of the players in that situation, has popped up again on aaj:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassi...e70075393fc8af#

Barb hasn't misrepresented anything. And the only process you were "aware of" that was "actually taking place" was what Judyth told you. One would think that by now, you, as a proclaimed trained historian, would know better.... or having been burned at every turn, would at least have learned long before now. I suppose that having given Judyth money makes you a tad biased though.

[Jack White]

I had ZERO to do with JVB being removed from the DellaRosa forum. Rich removed

her for two reasons I remember...telling him lies which he discovered and for

abusive attacks on other members. I did nothing EXCEPT ASK QUESTIONS about

some of the strange claims.

I had done extensive studies about the biomedical weapons manufactured by CIA

scientists at Ft. Detrick, Md. Therefore I found it extremely strange that the CIA would

need help CREATING A CANCER VIRUS TO KILL CASTRO from a high school girl, a

disgraced and strange former airline pilot with Mafia ties, a respected surgeon

like Mary Sherman...and a CIA asset who was currently being set up to be the patsy

in an CIA assassination plot (who had become expendable because his usefulness as

a CIA false defector had expired).

That has never passed the "swallow" test. For those who can swallow it, fine. I can't.

Jack

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

More from Judyth in response to some of Jack's earlier posts:

Jim...years ago on the DellaRosa Forum, JVB declined to answer any personal

questions about LHO...such as info about:

==I ATTEST THAT I NEVER DECLINED TO ANSWER ANYTHING. I WAS BEING

TREATED ABUSIVELY AND THEY WERE SNEERING WHEN THEY ASKED THESE

QUESTIONS. AFTER LENGTHY REPLIES, DELLA ROSA ERASED EVERY SINGLE

ANSWER.

ANYONE WHO HAS EVER CORRESPONDED WITH ME KNOWS I WORK HARD TO

REPLY TO EVERY QUESTION AND AVOID NONE OF THEM.

I DID RECEIVE A SERIES OF PHOTOS AND WAS ASKED 'WHICH ONE WAS LEE

AND WHICH ONE WAS HARVEY?' I REFUSED TO ANSWER TO ALL PHOTOS

BECAUSE THIS FALLACY WOULD 'FORCE' ME TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT A TRUE

'LEE AND HARVEY' ISSUE EXISTED. I DID NOT WISH TO PARTICIPATE IN THAT

WHEN I SAW THAT SOME PHOTOS HAD BEEN ALTERED THAT HAD ACTUALLY

BEEN LEE, AND WERE NOW BEING CALLED 'LEE' WHILE THE LEE I KNEW WAS

BEING CALLED 'HARVEY.'

JACK WHITE HAS INVESTED YEARS, BY HIS OWN ADMISSION, IN

ARMSTRONG'S BOOK, AND I FINALLY UNDERSTAND WHY HE IS SO UPSET.

WHEN RESEARCHERS PLACE THEIR INVESTMENT IN A BOOK AHEAD OF DESIRING

THE TRUTH, JUST BECAUSE THEY SPENT A LOT OF TIME ON IT, I MUST POINT THAT

OUT AS A FOUNT OF POSSIBLE PREJUDICE, AND VERY UNDERSTANDABLE.

ASK JACK WHITE WHERE ARE THE MANY, MANY REPLIES I WROTE TO THAT FORUM.

IT WAS BECAUSE OF VERBAL AND EMOTIONAL ABUSE THAT I LEFT THAT FORUM

AND ASKED JOHN SIMKIN IF HE WOULD CONSIDER STARTING A JFK FORUM AFTER

WE BEGAN DISCUSSING HAVING SOME PLACE TO DISCUSS SUCH QUESTIONS WITHOUT

BEING ABUSED.

EVENTUALLY I WAS ALSO ABUSED ON THE EDUCATION FORUM AND LEFT BECAUSE I

WAS NOT PROTECTED, AS I HAD BEEN PROMISED, FROM INSULTS. I DID SAVE

INSULTING POSTS FROM BOTH FORUMS.

BY THE WAY, I HAVE WRITTEN EXTENSIVELY AND ALSO TESTIFIED ON FILM AS TO THE

ROLES PLAYED BY EACH PERSON MENTIONED BELOW.

Marina

Robert

Marguerite

John Pic

Fort Worth

Dallas

Russia

How he learned to speak Russian

zigers

Schooling

LHO time in service and where

His daughter

Whether he had a missing tooth

Whether he was circumcised..

I have explained that this was a trick question that involved Debra Conway

and my attempt to protect her reputation...This tells me clearly that Jack

White was prepped by Conway to ask this question, as nobody ever asked

it except Robert Chapman, who I thought at the time was trying to harm

Conway. I was trying to protect Conway and later gave a full answer to this

matter, explaining the circumstances.

However, it was a trap set by Conway.

I now know that Jack White was influenced by Debra Conway at that time,

whose many lies about me, and her blocking witness films, etc. in fact are

well known to my long-time research associates.

Whether she knew Marina was pregnant

Perhaps Lee was reluctant to discuss personal matters with her.

===I REPEAT: I DID ANSWER MANY OF THESE QUESTIONS. THEY WERE

ERASED BY DELLAROSA. THEN I LEFT THE FORUM. YEARS LATER, I WROTE TO

THE FORUM AND SAID I HAD LEARNED MORE ABOUT THE 'LEE AND HARVEY'

QUESTION AND PERHAPS THERE HAD BEEN A MODICUM OF MISUNDERSTANDING.

AT THAT TIME MR. DELLAROSA AGAIN CONDEMNED ME, AND JACK WHITE DID,

TOO. THAT IS WHEN SOMEBODY THERE SENT THAT PRIVATE LETTER TO MCADAMS,

WHO POSTED IT, EVEN THOUGH THE FORUM IS SUPPOSED TO BE PROTECTED FROM

SUCH STEALINGS. DR. FETZER SAW WHAT HAPPENED AND SENT HIS APOLOGIES.

THAT IS HOW WE BEGAN CORRESPONDING.===

Jack

I had ZERO to do with JVB being removed from the DellaRosa forum. Rich removed

her for two reasons I remember...telling him lies which he discovered and for

abusive attacks on other members. I did nothing EXCEPT ASK QUESTIONS about

some of the strange claims.

I had done extensive studies about the biomedical weapons manufactured by CIA

scientists at Ft. Detrick, Md. Therefore I found it extremely strange that the CIA would

need help CREATING A CANCER VIRUS TO KILL CASTRO from a high school girl, a

disgraced and strange former airline pilot with Mafia ties, a respected surgeon

like Mary Sherman...and a CIA asset who was currently being set up to be the patsy

in an CIA assassination plot (who had become expendable because his usefulness as

a CIA false defector had expired).

That has never passed the "swallow" test. For those who can swallow it, fine. I can't.

Jack

Edited March 8, 2010 by James H. Fetzer

[Barb Junkkarinen]

More from Judyth ... :

This--and writing 'Cancun' and removing all evidence from my original manuscript and padding

it with junk--was the last straw.

Oh, he also wanted 22 1/2% commission and eternal rights to my life story!

He was fired.

Then he sent around nasty emails to people saying I wanted money and that he no longer believed me!

That started the pain.

'Cancun' has followed ever since.

Note that the Mayaland hotel and Kanj-Kun village was explained to Barb several times before.

She chooses to cite 'Cancun' as an anachronism anyway.

Judyth in her own words ... and excerpt (link to whole page given at end):

Before the Silence Came: Lee’s Last Telephone Calls

Last section

=====================================================================

note slight change in first sentence here, and a little further down, please add where there are

caps!

.......

==============the next section will deal with the last two telephone calls====thanks.j

Last Phone Call, November 20th, 1963

“It’s me again,” he said.

“Oh, Lee!”

I couldn’t act the part I wanted to play of the light-hearted and encouraging lover. We were

both very down. A weight had settled upon us. I very well knew i might never hear his voice

directed to me again, nor would he hear my words of love. I felt like I was choking. It was a cool

afternoon, and he had called me back right away. It was either this date, or on the 18th, that I had

to call Lee, because he missed the call to me i had expected on the 19th, and Dave had called to

tell me that Lee had to set up a new call schedule for me: it was getting very close to impossible

for him to call me again.

I was able to place a person-to-person call through the operator, but Dave’s operator was not

yet in place, and the lady who took the call made me tell her Lee’s exact name, or she would not

put through the call. I was quite spoiled with our special operator, and angry that this operator

had taken the call, but there was no help for it: I had already asked to be put through to the Texas

State Book depository, to cue in Lee that I could take his call whenever he was ready, and this

lady demanded his name before she would put the call through. Okay, I thought to myself, this is

not our operator, so i will be very brief, in case she listens in! I certainly would not wait for Lee

to answer the phone, as I had originally planned. . At least he knew that I had been reached by

Dave. After a minute, and some trouble as it seemed to me, a lady answered the phone, and I

used my most official-sounding adult voice, clearly and slowly asking her if Lee Oswald worked

there. It seemed to me that she was not sure, and then I told her that he was a janitor. “Janitor”

was the code word that meant “J.A.” (My first two initials) was calling. We felt that lee could

possibly be described as a janitor without anybody catching on, if I had to contact him. I asked

the lady to pass the message on to the “janitor” that somebody had called for him, and hung up.

The exchange at Covington must have been put into order again pretty quickly, or else Lee

took a chance, because I waited less than an hour at PenChem’s phone (I often worked overtime,

and Robert would only pick me up when i called him, so I had time to wait for this call). My

paycheck stubs from this time period show i was working an extra hour a day--mostly because i

was working on Dave’s chemical projects — and also because I could get phone calls with

nobody around at the payphone there, if Lee said not to use the payphone station set-up.

Because time was so short now, Lee told me there wouldn’t be another call from him unless he

reached Laredo.

“Lee,” I said slowly, “you didn’t say until. You said “unless.’”

“I apologize,” he answered. I heard him suck up his breath. We were both very close to tears.

Outside, it was sunset.

“You’ll go to Cancun,” Lee said. “You’ll stay in a fine hotel. I’ll be there — if they---”

We were both speechless.

“You know,” he said then, “if I don’t make it out— you have to go on with everything.”

“Oh, sure!” i said, bitterly. I told him that I would never allow anyone to replace him in my

heart.

“But promise me,” he said. “That you’ll have babies.”

“I don’t want to have babies with anyone but you.”

“Oh yes you will,” he answered. “You take home baby birds and feed them. So you have to

have babies. So promise me.”

I promised.

Only Cancun here. And a "fine hotel." When it was pointed out that there was no Cancun with any hotels .... fine or not ... in 1963, and the history of Cancun was posted, what an amazing twist and turn resulted. The conversation, as she related it, speaks for itself. No Mayaland which is hours away, and she learned about Mayaland when a poster named Deb noted she had stayed there while visiting Chichen Itza. The Cancun thing became a real riot of excuses and changes .... instead of Cancun it became Merida, and Chichen Itza (Mayaland) and a few other places ... Cozumel, even the Cayman Islands. That was all after it having been the bad agent didn't fly as there are pages, like this one, clearly written by Judyth, and even one she sent with an email for people to see the latest she had worked on, including this phone call, where she noted she just couldn't bear to work on it anymore after doing the conversation. The bad agent she says was fired for changing words? She never names him anymore because, as I understand it, he had threatened to sue over her making such a claim about him.

The whole page can be seen at: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/endofline.pdf There are others on this subject. And when her book came out in 2006, there is a whole different "last phone call." And Cancun is mentioned nowhere. :-)

The thing speaks for itself.

Hint to Judyth: Want me to quit posting these little tidbits ... then quit taking my name in vain. :-)

Barb :-)

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

Judyth already rebutted this drivel about "Cancun", Barb. Don't you have anything better than to recycle?

I almost hate to say it, but your are giving Judyth's critics a bad name. Maybe you need to reread the thread.

More from Judyth ... :

This--and writing 'Cancun' and removing all evidence from my original manuscript and padding

it with junk--was the last straw.

Oh, he also wanted 22 1/2% commission and eternal rights to my life story!

He was fired.

Then he sent around nasty emails to people saying I wanted money and that he no longer believed me!

That started the pain.

'Cancun' has followed ever since.

Note that the Mayaland hotel and Kanj-Kun village was explained to Barb several times before.

She chooses to cite 'Cancun' as an anachronism anyway.

Judyth in her own words ... and excerpt (link to whole page given at end):

Before the Silence Came: Lee’s Last Telephone Calls

Last section

=====================================================================

note slight change in first sentence here, and a little further down, please add where there are

caps!

.......

==============the next section will deal with the last two telephone calls====thanks.j

Last Phone Call, November 20th, 1963

“It’s me again,” he said.

“Oh, Lee!”

I couldn’t act the part I wanted to play of the light-hearted and encouraging lover. We were

both very down. A weight had settled upon us. I very well knew i might never hear his voice

directed to me again, nor would he hear my words of love. I felt like I was choking. It was a cool

afternoon, and he had called me back right away. It was either this date, or on the 18th, that I had

to call Lee, because he missed the call to me i had expected on the 19th, and Dave had called to

tell me that Lee had to set up a new call schedule for me: it was getting very close to impossible

for him to call me again.

I was able to place a person-to-person call through the operator, but Dave’s operator was not

yet in place, and the lady who took the call made me tell her Lee’s exact name, or she would not

put through the call. I was quite spoiled with our special operator, and angry that this operator

had taken the call, but there was no help for it: I had already asked to be put through to the Texas

State Book depository, to cue in Lee that I could take his call whenever he was ready, and this

lady demanded his name before she would put the call through. Okay, I thought to myself, this is

not our operator, so i will be very brief, in case she listens in! I certainly would not wait for Lee

to answer the phone, as I had originally planned. . At least he knew that I had been reached by

Dave. After a minute, and some trouble as it seemed to me, a lady answered the phone, and I

used my most official-sounding adult voice, clearly and slowly asking her if Lee Oswald worked

there. It seemed to me that she was not sure, and then I told her that he was a janitor. “Janitor”

was the code word that meant “J.A.” (My first two initials) was calling. We felt that lee could

possibly be described as a janitor without anybody catching on, if I had to contact him. I asked

the lady to pass the message on to the “janitor” that somebody had called for him, and hung up.

The exchange at Covington must have been put into order again pretty quickly, or else Lee

took a chance, because I waited less than an hour at PenChem’s phone (I often worked overtime,

and Robert would only pick me up when i called him, so I had time to wait for this call). My

paycheck stubs from this time period show i was working an extra hour a day--mostly because i

was working on Dave’s chemical projects — and also because I could get phone calls with

nobody around at the payphone there, if Lee said not to use the payphone station set-up.

Because time was so short now, Lee told me there wouldn’t be another call from him unless he

reached Laredo.

“Lee,” I said slowly, “you didn’t say until. You said “unless.’”

“I apologize,” he answered. I heard him suck up his breath. We were both very close to tears.

Outside, it was sunset.

“You’ll go to Cancun,” Lee said. “You’ll stay in a fine hotel. I’ll be there — if they---”

We were both speechless.

“You know,” he said then, “if I don’t make it out— you have to go on with everything.”

“Oh, sure!” i said, bitterly. I told him that I would never allow anyone to replace him in my

heart.

“But promise me,” he said. “That you’ll have babies.”

“I don’t want to have babies with anyone but you.”

“Oh yes you will,” he answered. “You take home baby birds and feed them. So you have to

have babies. So promise me.”

I promised.

Only Cancun here. And a "fine hotel." When it was pointed out that there was no Cancun with any hotels .... fine or not ... in 1963, and the history of Cancun was posted, what an amazing twist and turn resulted. The conversation, as she related it, speaks for itself. No Mayaland which is hours away, and she learned about Mayaland when a poster named Deb noted she had stayed there while visiting Chichen Itza. The Cancun thing became a real riot of excuses and changes .... instead of Cancun it became Merida, and Chichen Itza (Mayaland) and a few other places ... Cozumel, even the Cayman Islands. That was all after it having been the bad agent didn't fly as there are pages, like this one, clearly written by Judyth, and even one she sent with an email for people to see the latest she had worked on, including this phone call, where she noted she just couldn't bear to work on it anymore after doing the conversation. The bad agent she says was fired for changing words? She never names him anymore because, as I understand it, he had threatened to sue over her making such a claim about him.

The whole page can be seen at: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/endofline.pdf There are others on this subject. And when her book came out in 2006, there is a whole different "last phone call." And Cancun is mentioned nowhere. :-)

The thing speaks for itself.

Hint to Judyth: Want me to quit posting these little tidbits ... then quit taking my name in vain. :-)

Barb :-)

Edited March 8, 2010 by James H. Fetzer