Ralph Geb

[Kathleen Collins]

On a hunch I went searching for Donald O. Norton on the Internet. I believe someday everything will be on the Internet. This was some years back. Five years ago. Norton was living 2 hours away from me. When people heard he had a fly-fishing store, it became a tourist trap; everyone trying to catch a glimpse of the real LHO. One researcher even emailed Norton to ask him about his identity. Another researcher and I had planned to go to Norton's store, but everyone went there and we never did.

Published on Rich's forum were photos of 2 teenage redheads (b&w) and some photos of Donald O Norton, including a yearbook picture. I started looking at fly-fishing shops and charter boats, and found someone who is a match for Donald O Norton, from Florida and seems like a very happy man. There was another redheaded fisherman with his own store, up near Canada who looked just like him. I believe that these 2 redheads are the adult images of the 2 redheaded boys found on Rich's forum. Rich told me people over the years have posted a lot of wild stuff, etc. on his forum. He didn't know who they were and that I didn't understand about Norton. And that was the extent of that.

Anyway, looking through these photo albums online, I saw a photo of a man who looked like the yearbook picture of D.O.N. As his photo came downwards a name was beneath it: Ralph Geb. Mostly as an afterthought, I later typed his name into my browser -- and discovered he supposedly posed as LHO before the assassination. Oh boy, I thought. I was on to something...

John Armstrong knows a lot about Donald O. Norton, but won't give up any info. And this frustrates me to no end. Awhile later, I decided to write to that website and ask who that particular man was as he looked familiar to me. A week letter I got an email back and it said the man (Ralph Geb) is Bill Dietz from N. Carolina.

I will try to upload his picture.

Kathy C

[Kathleen Collins]

Here is the Yearbook picture of Donald O Norton

Kathy C

[Bernice Moore]

hi kathy this is the photo of donald greb that james richard posted a few years back i believe it was.that long ago .....b

Edited April 27, 2010 by Bernice Moore

[Kathleen Collins]

hi kathy this is the photo of donald greb that james richard posted a few years back i believe it was.that long ago .....b

Yes, I have that one too. What I posted was the picture that as it downloaded said Ralph Geb under it. I never heard of Ralph Geb, so was surprised to find that he was connected to the Kennedy Assassination. There's a picture of Donald O. Norton in among the links for these charter boats on the "East coast."

Kathy C

[Kathleen Collins]

This is a picture of Norton in his Florida store.

Kathy C

[Greg Burnham]

Hi Kathy,

Thanks for posting this. Very interesting, in a way. The funny thing is...I don't know exctly how or why Geb was ever suspected of being an Oswald impersonator?

At the time of the assassination in 1963 he was 44 years old! Oswald was 20 years younger. It seems hard to believe that anyone would think that he could pass for the same guy or that anyone would have mistaken him for Oswald.

Geb's Social Security Number is 457-26-0371

He was born in Wisconsin in 1919. He died in 1989 at age 70. He retired as a Colonel in the US Air Force in 1965 after duty as a Strategic Air Command Pilot. He also was a WWII veteran.

The only points of interest that I found are these and they are "thin at best" regarding Dallas:

Both Ralph and his brother, Fred Geb, who was also a Colonel in the USAF, attended Woodrow Wilson High School in Dallas, as did Represntative Collins. (I'm uncertain as to which Collins this is--but I believe it is James M Collins).

Also in attendance at Woodrow Wilson High School (I think) were two individuals who would later become FBI Special Agents:

FBI Special Agent Davey O'Brien and Special Agent I. B. Hale. They definitely attended TCU together.

These two were partners for 11 years. Special Agent O'Brien later became the Security Chief for H. L. Hunt and Special Agent I. B. Hale became the Security Director for General Dynamics of Fort Worth Texas.

I. B. Hale's father, Bobby, eloped with and married Governor John Connally's daughter, Kathleen. She later committed suicide (or she was "suicided") by a shotgun blast behind her right ear.

Anyway there's more. Seymour Hersh wrote about more stuff that allegedly took place involving Exener. However, I could never really find where this Ralph Geb supposedly fit in...

Edited April 27, 2010 by Greg Burnham

[Dixie Dea]

I thought that Ralph Geb was a classmate and friend to Malcalm Wallace. ...who was LBJs hitman.

Dixie

[William Kelly]

Hi Kathy,

Thanks for posting this. Very interesting, in a way. The funny thing is...I don't know exctly how or why Geb was ever suspected of being an Oswald impersonator?

At the time of the assassination in 1963 he was 44 years old! Oswald was 20 years younger. It seems hard to believe that anyone would think that he could pass for the same guy or that anyone would have mistaken him for Oswald.

Geb's Social Security Number is 457-26-0371

He was born in Wisconsin in 1919. He died in 1989 at age 70. He retired as a Colonel in the US Air Force in 1965 after duty as a Strategic Air Command Pilot. He also was a WWII veteran.

The only points of interest that I found are these and they are "thin at best" regarding Dallas:

Both Ralph and his brother, Fred Geb, who was also a Colonel in the USAF, attended Woodrow Wilson High School in Dallas, as did Represntative Collins. (I'm uncertain as to which Collins this is--but I believe it is James M Collins).

Also in attendance at Woodrow Wilson High School (I think) were two individuals who would later become FBI Special Agents:

FBI Special Agent Davey O'Brien and Special Agent I. B. Hale. They definitely attended TCU together.

These two were partners for 11 years. Special Agent O'Brien later became the Security Chief for H. L. Hunt and Special Agent I. B. Hale became the Security Director for General Dynamics of Fort Worth Texas.

I. B. Hale's father, Bobby, eloped with and married Governor John Connally's daughter, Kathleen. She later committed suicide (or she was "suicided") by a shotgun blast behind her right ear.

Anyway there's more. Seymour Hersh wrote about more stuff that allegedly took place involving Exener. However, I could never really find where this Ralph Geb supposedly fit in...

According to Glen Sample (sp?) in the book The Man in the Sixth Floor Window, the Man in the Mexico City photographs misidentified as Oswald is Ralph Geb, who played football in high school with Mac Wallace.

I don't know if anyone has confirmed or refuted this, but I believe that's where it come fro.

And I believe Monk means that I.B. Hale's son, not his father, was engaged to John Connally's daughter and pulled the trigger that killed her.

BK

[Greg Burnham]

According to Glen Sample (sp?) in the book The Man in the Sixth Floor Window, the Man in the Mexico City photographs misidentified as Oswald is Ralph Geb, who played football in high school with Mac Wallace.

I don\'t know if anyone has confirmed or refuted this, but I believe that\'s where it come fro.

And I believe Monk means that I.B. Hale\'s son, not his father, was engaged to John Connally\'s daughter and pulled the trigger that killed her.

BK

Thanks Bill & Dixie,

It's been a long time since I was studying this stuff and I'm not as sharp about it anymore. I think you're correct about it being the son, Bill. It got to be too late last night while I was posting this--and I literally started dozing off at the keyboard! I just kinda stopped writing...and went to bed.

Edited April 27, 2010 by Greg Burnham

[Bernice Moore]

http://coverthistory.blogspot.com/2006/06/...his-on-jfk.html

the men on the sixth floor http://www.acorn.net/jfkplace/03/MS/6th-men.html

http://home.earthlink.net/~sixthfloor/

video

b

Edited April 27, 2010 by Bernice Moore

[Greg Burnham]

Thanks, b

[Kathleen Collins]

I don't know where "my" Ralph Geb fits in. The Ralph Geb described would be quite old or dead by now. The only one who knows is John Armstrong. I leave it in his hands.

Kathy C

[Greg Burnham]

Yes, the Ralph Geb I researched died in 1989 at the age of 70. The reason I think that its the same guy is because J Harrison asked me to look him up as he thought Geb still lived in San Diego. This Geb did live in San Diego--but he was long dead before I even knew about him.

I don't know where "my" Ralph Geb fits in. The Ralph Geb described would be quite old or dead by now. The only one who knows is John Armstrong. I leave it in his hands.

Kathy C

[Guest Tom Scully]

Greg,

I.B. Hale's wife Virginia, of Fortune Road, sent Oswald to Leslie Welding to interview for a job. I can find no family background on Virginia Hale. All I know is that the she worked for the Texas State Employment Commission in 1963, that she was an accomplished bridge player, that she and IB Hale attended the April, 1959 inquest in Florida in the matter of Connally's daughter's death and that IB Hale openly wept during that proceeding.

I know that the Corvette license plate traced to IB Hale in the 1962 Exner apartment break in Los Angeles, described a different street address than Fortune Road, and that ID Hale's May 14, 1971 death record shows his marital status as "single". IB Hale died that friday night of a heart attack while attending a country club dance, he was 55.

Well, there's the taped conversation between him and Hoover in which they clearly talk about JFK being shot from the front, with Connally getting in the way of one bullet. Then they turn around and talk about the good case against Oswald. I wouldn't call this discussion a slip, it's too brazen for that. I would call it simply talking about nailing an obvious patsy.

IMO, that speaks more to LBJ's assent to the investigation (or, if you prefer, the cover-up) rather than to his assent to the murder, which is what the previous post suggested ("He had two motives, one being his ruthless lust for power, the other being the urgent need to stay out of prison. And he would be the man in position as president to assure the crime was covered up. I would say he either initiated the plot (as E. Howard Hunt alleged), or gave the green light for it"). There is nothing other than warranted or unwarranted suspicion that LBJ had any motive for the murder of his predecessor in the conversation you're referring to.

As far as motive to assent to a "cover-up," it is Hoover telling Johnson what "the case" was, not the other way around, and not Johnson suggeting to Hoover what Hoover might adopt as a position for the cover-up to succeed. The notion of qui bono is not a basis for determining someone guilty, but merely to consider them a suspect or "person of interest," that is, because a wife gets a murdered husband's insurance settlement is a reason to look at her more closely, but her getting the insurance money is not ipso facto an indicator that she did have him killed.

LBJ falls in the same category as the wife listening to what the investigator is telling her as opposed to being the wife who's suggesting to the cops what to look for and find.

Duke, I think you are underemphasizing LBJ's motives, opportunities, and obvious orchestration of the cover up, with the goal of guaranteeing, to the degree it was possible to do it, with complete complicity of Hoover at FBI, that serious minded volk would readily accept Oswald and Ruby as "LNs".....

The two men who openly benefited the most from JFK's death, confirmed by the sudden suspension of the McClellan TFX contract hearings by December 15, 1963, were LBJ from the political power angle, and Henry Crown from the business stake angle. LBJ was more like the wife who was sleeping with the district attorney at the time of her husband's murder and then used her charms and/or the threat of blackmail to make the DA's investigation of her husband's murder a short, superficial affair before swiftly closing the case....

....Hoover had a duty obligation to disclose the IB Hale related surveillance reports to the WC counsel. We can safely assume he withheld it from the WC.

Hoover could have easily found out, to the point that we can assume he knew that Henry Crown's son, John J. Crown, had been a member of Albert Jenner's law firm since 1959, and not only was Jenner the personal attorney of the Crown family but he also represented this division of General Dynamics just weeks before his appointment to the WC:

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?um=1&...nge=1970%2C2009

Stern v. Material Service Corp.,Stern v. Material Service Corp., 194...

Subscription - Appellate Court of Illinois, First... - Fastcase - Oct 23, 1963

Albert E. Jenner, Jr., Benjamin Z. Gould, Kenneth J. Burns, Jr., Chicago, ... [44 Ill.App.2d 200] The plaintiff, Dora Greiver Stern, filed a complaint ...

Hoover knew that because of the McClellan Senate investigation of the TFX contract award to General Dynamics and the Bobby Baker connection, the related forced resignation of Navy Secretary Fred Korth on November 1, 1963, and because of the intelligence gathered by the FBI related to General Dynamics Forth Worth, TX, secuirty chief, IB Hale and his twin sons, intelligence details sent directly to Hoover:

....that, not only was it an outrageous conflict to appoint Jenner as assistant counsel, it boggles the mind that Jenner was assigned to examine sworn WC witnesses employed by General Dynamics:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/conway.htm

Mr. JENNER - Would you mind rising and being sworn. Do you in the testimony you are about to give swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Mr. CONWAY - I do....

...Mr. JENNER - And your business, occupation, or profession is what?

Mr. CONWAY - Tool inspector for General Dynamics.

Mr. JENNER - The General Dynamics Corp.?........

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/uploads/post-6258-1237241702.jpg

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/uploads/post-6258-1237241674.jpg

It's a shame how many trees had to die to put the conclusions.of Posner and "the Bug" to print, so conveniently in lockstep with those in the WC Report.

As I presented in my prior post on this thread, partially reposted above, and in posts on other threads, there is a pattern pf cover up, omission, and "tweaking" of the make up of the staff of the Warren Commission by government officials like J. Edgar Hoover and Earl Warren, in complicity with "folks" associated with General Dynamics that seems blatant to me.

In addition to the examples quoted above, excerpted from an earlier post on this thread, Hoover and his FBI conveniently omitted other information, which seems by it's omission to magnify the suspicion of a conspiracy, involving the FBI's former SA IB Hale, employed by General Dynamics in a role of chief of it's industrial security in 1963.

Observe how the details in this article posted by Bill Kelly on the "Patrick Hoy" thread mesh with a name and street address displayed in this document which the DOJ, the FBI, and the WC left unqualified as one of the WC Report's exhibits, even more troubling because it was related to how Oswald was said to have been introduced to Max Clark, yet another General Dynamics security person, and to his White Russian wife.:

...Born Insall Bailey Hale, September 9, 1916, in Elmont, Texas, IB Hale devoted his life to the professionalism of the industry through his activities in ASIS, his career with the FBI, and in his capacity as Manager of Industrial Security with General Dynamics, Forth Worth Division...

http://www.religionnewsblog.com/20076/robert-hale-2

Robert “Bobby” Hale, the Scripture-quoting “Papa Pilgrim” who used the Bible to pound subservience into his 15 children, went before a judge in Alaska last month, looking old and frail beyond his 66 years as he learned his punishment — 14 years behind bars — for sexually assaulting one of his daughters.

Prison time is only the latest chapter in the bizarre life of Hale, the son of a legendary TCU football player. He grew up in the west Fort Worth neighborhood of Ridglea Hills, attended Arlington Heights High School and, at age 18, eloped with the 16-year-old daughter of one of the most powerful and famous politicians in Texas history....

...Young wife’s death

Hale was a senior at Arlington Heights High when he eloped with his girlfriend, Kathleen Connally, a junior. They married in Ardmore, Okla., moved into a modest apartment in Tallahassee, Fla., and began a marriage of young hope.

It would last just over a month.

Kathleen Connally Hale died April 28, 1959, from a shotgun blast behind her right ear. She was pregnant. Her husband spent the next night in jail, a Star-Telegram report said at the time. But the death was later ruled an accident, caused when the gun discharged as Hale tried to take it from his wife.

Described as incoherent in the hours after his wife’s death, Hale was said to have later passed a lie-detector test, and his fingerprints were not found on the gun, despite the report that he had grabbed for it. So, authorities determined, Kathleen died during “a little squabble like kids will have.”

It meant an end to Hale’s brief role as son-in-law to John Connally, then a confidant to Sen. Lyndon Baines Johnson and an attorney for Fort Worth millionaires Sid Richardson and Perry Bass. John Connally later became governor of Texas and was wounded in the assassination of President Kennedy.

Connally, who died in 1993, wrote in his autobiography that he had been told that there may have been a suicide pact between his firstborn child and her new husband, and that “Bobby backed out.”

“I could not shake my doubts that Kathleen would never have taken her own life if her young husband had been … kind and considerate to her in the dark moments she must have experienced,” Connally wrote. As he searched for answers, he said he was troubled by what his daughter’s landlady in Tallahassee told him: “She said she thought Kathleen was afraid — of what, she did not know.”

She would not be the last 16-year-old Hale would take as a companion. His future wife and the mother of the 15 children on Hillbilly Heaven ranch was reportedly the same age when Hale courted her in the 1970s.

All-American’s family

More than 3,500 miles and a world of difference separate the primitive ranch in Alaska — where Papa Pilgrim held court over his flock — and the home on tree-lined Fortune Road in west Fort Worth where Bobby Hale grew up with his twin brother, Billy, and younger brother, Tommy.

Their mother, Virginia, was an accomplished bridge player. Their father, I.B. Hale, was an All-American lineman for the Texas Christian University Horned Frogs football team and its captain during the team’s undefeated national championship season in 1938. He was a good friend and college roommate of another famous TCU player, Davey O’Brien....

http://www.asisphoenix.org/id29.html

On the library shelf, next to Larry Hancock's book titled "Someone Would Have Talked" should be another book titled, "Uncorrupted WC Investigators Would Have Been Curious Investigators."

[PDF]Warren Commission, Volume XXII: CE 1389 - FBI report dated May 19 ...

File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View

On May 13, 1964, Mrs. VIRGINIA 13ALS, 6475 Fortune Road, ... Mrs . HALE stated she did not give the names of MAX CLARK or PETER GREGORY ...

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...H22_CE_1389.pdf