Review of Judyth Vary Baker Thread

[Jack White]

Just an FYI: This could easily get lost in a morass of detail. There is a LOT of stuff about Baker out there, some of it from her.

Good points, Stephen. I will employ my skills at conciseness. The key will be evidence that relates to the four main assertions.

Only FOUR assertions? There are hundreds!

[Dean Hagerman]

Just an FYI: This could easily get lost in a morass of detail. There is a LOT of stuff about Baker out there, some of it from her.

Good points, Stephen. I will employ my skills at conciseness. The key will be evidence that relates to the four main assertions.

Only FOUR assertions? There are hundreds!

Spot on again Jack. Dean only plays by his pro-Judyth rules. He looks more and more silly as this thread moves forward. The funny part is that I answered his question about what proof I would need and said a picture of Judyth and Lee together would do it for me. Barb has shown Dean the passage in Judyths book that claims a picture of Judyth and Lee and now he seems to be ready to dismiss this claim instead of follow up with Barb. What more do I have to do Dean? Are you going to keep ignoring my answer of a picture proving Judyths story to me?

[Dean Hartwell]

Then I take it you, as judge, will not allow questions from doubters.

For instance JVB claims she was one of the women in this photo. Then she said she was not.

Then she said she was there, but not in the photo. I think some here would like to cross-examine

her about this. Overruled?

Jack

Jack,

There are no judges. I have already allowed evidence from doubters under "cross-examination." Serious questions, like yours, are welcome. Please tell me where JVB made her claim(s). I need a source. An independent source.

Her claims are in this thread. You find them.

Jack,

I am not clear what you mean. Are you saying that JVB claimed somewhere in this thread that she was in the picture?

[Dean Hartwell]

Just an FYI: This could easily get lost in a morass of detail. There is a LOT of stuff about Baker out there, some of it from her.

Good points, Stephen. I will employ my skills at conciseness. The key will be evidence that relates to the four main assertions.

Only FOUR assertions? There are hundreds!

Jack,

I have presented four assertions that form the basis of her story. Evidence should fit under one of these assertions. If not, as I have said, you may bring up evidence outside the subject of these assertions at a later time.

[John Dolva]

JVB EVIDENCE AND CROSS-EXAMINATION

I have decided to take the comments I am getting on this thread and put it into a new form. We could assign JVB the "plaintiff" status and say that her case is that she is telling the truth about her time in New Orleans in 1963. Her specific assertions and evidence offered for each can be shown, as can "cross-examination" or counter-arguments offered by critics. This is a work in progress and, of course, is subject to my own bias as to what is relevant or debatable evidence.

(1) JVB went to New Orleans during the time Lee Harvey Oswald is known to have been there.

Evidence: the work time card mentioned on the main thread and shown on previously named web sites.

Cross-examination: None

(2) JVB met Lee Harvey Oswald.

Evidence: Anna Lewis' statements on a previously mentioned video. She states that she and her husband David double-dated with JVB and Lee.

Cross-examination: Stephen says it would help to know more about what, if anything, anyone encouraged Anna to say before she talked on the video. She should also clarify why she gave a different story to Garrison than her husband regarding how she knew LHO, which may or may not be a problem. Barb states that she is trying to confirm a comment made Debra Conway as to whether Anna Lewis originally recalled JVB. Barb also claims that JVB sent around a "transcript" of an interview with one witness to another witness.

(3) JVB and Lee Harvey Oswald had an affair.

Evidence: Comments made by Anna Lewis on this topic on the same video.

Cross-examination: See above. Jack adds that he believes several agencies and other parties watched LHO very closely in New Orleans and that none of the agencies has produced any report mentioning JVB.

(4) JVB worked on a lab on a project to collect cancer cells to use to kill Fidel Castro.

Evidence: Newspaper clippings posted show her interest in work in a science-related field and her excellence as science student.

Cross-examination: See above.

Sources in dispute: LHO: The True Story...

JVB has said that it is unauthorized due to a contract dispute.

Cross-examination: Barb states that the status does not negate everything in it.

Specific assertion: Barb asserts that on page 171 JVB says that Kerry Thornley took a picture of her and LHO together.

Further discussion could turn up picture or refute JVB statement or clarify what part(s) of book are not reliable for reason of contract dispute, etc. This ties in to JVB assertions #2 and #3.

Evidence rule: Independent corroborating evidence is best. Jack says it is a second source with no stake in the matter (paraphrase). Further questioning made it clear that he believes self-serving interest rules out a witness; I say it should be a factor for finder-of-fact (you) to consider.

Where it goes next: All members are free to respond with ideas on evidence. Remember we are now only working on JVB's assertions (I will get to other possible evidence later). I need any evidence that works for or against any of these assertions (#1-#4). You do not have to prove it but you must give reason to believe what you are suggesting.

Dean, my very small brain whispers to me that this is about the most brilliant posts in the history of this forum. I'm not kidding, well maybe about the whispering bit, In a way you have formulated a template for discussion which actually fits neatly with some of the hopes of this vastly underutilised (so sadly so) Education Forum. Now, we can not only jabber but actually do so in a format which might actually mean something. Me hats off to yer, guv. No kidding.

I'd like to add a fifth question: Judyth, when you went to spend some time in Sweden and go through the process of applying for asylum, part of your claim is that you are a socialist. Could you please take time to outline the argument you have for this, as well as state why you consider this a point of relevance. Further, how do you reconcile that with the proposed murder of the head of state of the sovereign nation of Cuba and performing this task with the Central Intelligence Agency of the sovereign nation the United States of America. Please.

Thank you.

Edited May 12, 2010 by John Dolva

[Dean Hartwell]

Dean, my very small brain whispers to me that this is about the most brilliant posts in the history of this forum. I'm not kidding, well maybe about the whispering bit, In a way you have formulated a template for discussion which actually fits neatly with some of the hopes of this vastly underutilised (so sadly so) Education Forum. Now, we can not only jabber but actually do so in a format which might actually mean something. Me hats off to yer, guv. No kidding.

I'd like to add a fifth question: Judyth, when you went to spend some time in Sweden and go through the process of applying for asylum, part of your claim is that you are a socialist. Could you please take time to outline the argument you have for this, as well as state why you consider this a point of relevance. Further, how do you reconcile that with the proposed murder of the head of state of the sovereign nation of Cuba and performing this task with the Central Intelligence Agency of the sovereign nation the United States of America. Please.

Thank you.

Thank you, John! I am going to incorporate your fifth question in my next update. My ears are still buzzing!

Dean

[Dean Hartwell]

JVB EVIDENCE AND CROSS-EXAMINATION

This is a work in progress where I am collecting evidence about JVB's story. My focus is on her four basic assertions:

(1) JVB went to New Orleans during the time Lee Harvey Oswald is known to have been there.

Evidence: the work time card mentioned on the main thread and shown on previously named web sites.

Cross-examination: None to date

(2) JVB met Lee Harvey Oswald.

Evidence: Anna Lewis' statements on a previously mentioned video. She states that she and her husband David double-dated with JVB and Lee.

Cross-examination: Stephen says it would help to know more about what, if anything, anyone encouraged Anna to say before she talked on the video. She should also clarify why she gave a different story to Garrison than her husband regarding how she knew LHO, which may or may not be a problem. Barb adds that she believes JVB may have encouraged Anna before she made statements. Barb also states that she is trying to confirm a comment made Debra Conway as to whether Anna Lewis originally recalled JVB. Barb also claims that JVB sent around a "transcript" of an interview with one witness to another witness.

(3) JVB and Lee Harvey Oswald had an affair.

Evidence: Comments made by Anna Lewis on this topic on the same video.

Cross-examination: See above. Jack adds that he believes several agencies and other parties watched LHO very closely in New Orleans and that none of the agencies has produced any report mentioning JVB.

(4) JVB worked on a lab on a project to collect cancer cells to use to kill Fidel Castro.

Evidence: Newspaper clippings posted show her interest in work in a science-related field and her excellence as science student.

Cross-examination: See above.

Sources in dispute: LHO: The True Story...

JVB has said that it is unauthorized due to a contract dispute. She says she submitted corrections that were not made in the publishing of the book.

Cross-examination: Barb states that the status does not negate everything in it. Barb asserts that on page 171 JVB says that Kerry Thornley took a picture of her and LHO together. Further discussion could turn up picture or clarify what part(s) of book are not reliable for reason of contract dispute, etc. This ties in to JVB assertions #2 and #3.

Evidence rule: Independent corroborating evidence is best. Jack says it is a second source with no stake in the matter (paraphrase). Further questioning made it clear that he believes self-serving interest rules out a witness; I say it should be a factor for finder-of-fact (you) to consider.

Comments on credibility (to get listed, you need to show some basis of what you are saying in one of the four assertions):

John Dolver asks: "Judyth, when you went to spend some time in Sweden and go through the process of applying for asylum, part of your claim is that you are a socialist. Could you please take time to outline the argument you have for this, as well as state why you consider this a point of relevance. Further, how do you reconcile that with the proposed murder of the head of state of the sovereign nation of Cuba and performing this task with the Central Intelligence Agency of the sovereign nation the United States of America. Please."

Where it goes next: All members are free to respond with ideas on evidence. I need any evidence that works for or against any of these assertions (#1-#4). You do not have to prove it but you must give reason to believe what you are suggesting.

[Dean Hagerman]

All members are free to respond with ideas on evidence.

What a freaking joke

[Dean Hartwell]

JVB EVIDENCE AND CROSS-EXAMINATION: AN UPDATE

JVB's story is broken down into four basic assertions and cross-examined:

(1) JVB went to New Orleans during the time Lee Harvey Oswald is known to have been there.

On direct: the work time card mentioned on the main thread and shown on previously named web sites.

Cross-examination: None to date

(2) JVB met Lee Harvey Oswald.

On Direct: Anna Lewis makes statements on a previously mentioned video on Google. She says, among other things, that she and her husband David double-dated with JVB and Lee.

Cross-examination: Stephen says it would help to know more about what, if anything, anyone encouraged Anna to say before she talked on the video. He says she should also clarify why she gave a different story to Garrison than her husband regarding how she knew LHO, which may or may not be a problem. Barb adds that she believes JVB may have encouraged Anna before she made statements. Barb also states that she is trying to confirm a comment made Debra Conway as to whether Anna Lewis originally recalled JVB. Barb also claims that JVB sent around a "transcript" of an interview with one witness to another witness.

Re-direct: JVB argues the following: Debra Conway unexpectedly asked Lewis to discuss matters on videotape and evidentiary matters were not discussed with her prior to the taping. Lewis agreed to taping on grounds it would be her only taping. Lewis told a representative of Garrison to leave her alone as she was about to have a baby and feared a miscarriage from stress. Husband David was willing to acknowledge contacts with Oswald but did not identify JVB as he did not know where she was.

(3) JVB and Lee Harvey Oswald had an affair.

On direct: Anna Lewis made comments on this topic on the same video.

Cross-examination: See above. Jack adds that he believes several agencies and other parties watched LHO very closely in New Orleans and that none of the agencies has produced any report mentioning JVB.

Re-direct: JVB argues the following: A Department of Defense agent told her that he had looked in files of LHO and JVB and had seen pictures of JVB labeled “Marina Oswald.” The agent had seen a caption in both files noting that Marina was reportedly in Texas when the picture was taken of her in New Orleans.

(4) JVB worked on a lab on a project to collect cancer cells to use to kill Fidel Castro.

On direct: Newspaper clippings posted show her interest in work in a science-related field and her excellence as science student.

Cross-examination: See above.

Sources in dispute: LHO: The True Story...

On direct: JVB argues the following: The book is unauthorized due to a contract dispute and because she submitted corrections that were not made in the publishing of the book.

Cross-examination: Barb argues the following: The book’s status does not negate everything in it. On page 171 JVB says that Kerry Thornley took a picture of her and LHO together.

Re-direct: JVB argues the following: Livingstone did not allow her to see his editing or final edit. Her statement that she was in a picture with LHO at the Trade Mart was given as speculation by JVB to Livingstone because she did not have good enough photos to make a determination.

Evidence rule: Independent corroborating evidence is best. Jack says it is a second source with no stake in the matter (paraphrase). Further questioning made it clear that he believes self-serving interest rules out a witness; I say it should be a factor for finder-of-fact (you) to consider.

Comments on credibility (to get listed, you need to show some basis of what you are saying in one of the four assertions):

John Dolver asks: "Judyth, when you went to spend some time in Sweden and go through the process of applying for asylum, part of your claim is that you are a socialist. Could you please take time to outline the argument you have for this, as well as state why you consider this a point of relevance. Further, how do you reconcile that with the proposed murder of the head of state of the sovereign nation of Cuba and performing this task with the Central Intelligence Agency of the sovereign nation the United States of America. Please."

Where it goes next: All members are free to respond with ideas on evidence that works for or against any of these assertions (#1-#4). You must give reason to believe what you are suggesting.

Edited May 14, 2010 by Dean Hartwell

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

A REVIEW OF DR. MARY'S MONKEY

Where the author (humorously, I presume) calls it "part conspiracy and part factual", as though the conspiracy elements were not factual:

http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/tor/rnr/1739686632.html

I recommend this book for your summer reading list. Part conspiracy and part factual, Dr Mary's Monkey is real page turner that will inform and scare you.

While researching the mysterious death of Dr Mary Sherman, author Ed Haslam discovered that polio vaccines created in the 1950s had been tainted with a cancer-causing virus. This contamination was detected after half the doses, a staggering 100 million vaccines, had been administered to an unwitting public. Allegedly, the creators of the vaccine were afraid to admit the error and subsequently distributed the remaining half. Haslam studied data on cancer diagnoses and discovered that a massive epidemic of soft tissue cancers erupted in the years following the polio vaccines. To make matters worse, the cancer causing virus could be transmitted sexually and has even appeared in grandchildren of people who received the compromised vaccine.

Realizing their grave mistake, those "in the know" about the widespread inoculation tried to develop a vaccine against it by mutating the virus using a particle accelerator. It was during this process that they discovered that the radiation caused the virus to become even more aggressive. Then the project shifted over to weaponizing the cancer causing virus and eventually the weaponized virus was so powerful that it would kill a person in 28 days. This number was derived from a clandestine test of the virus on inmates from a Louisiana prison. The end result was a potent weapon that was virtually untraceable.

Making the story even more bizarre, many of the players in the cancer-causing virus story have connections to the JFK assassination. For instance, one of the researchers in the weaponization project had Lee Harvey Oswald as her bodyguard and handler. Additionally, one of the basis of operation for these studies was the home of longtime Kennedy assassination suspect David Ferrie. And bringing the tale back to where it all started, on the very day that the Warren Commission began their investigation of the JFK assassination, Dr Mary Sherman was murdered.

[Jack White]

I am partway through DR MARY'S MONKEY and find the review sorta on target, partially. Much of Haslam's

early part about the tainted polio vaccine and related research is interesting, and though largely speculative

it may be credible. The fact that his father was involved gives this part added credibility.

There is no doubt that Haslam is a good writer and has constructed a compelling story.

However, much of his tale is put in the form of QUESTIONS which he then theorizes answers for, and later

states his speculative theories as facts.

And very early he lost me when he implied that the Nigel Turner Episode "The Love Story" was withdrawn

to conceal the Judyth story. Well, excuse me! All of the episodes were withdrawn because Lady Bird and

Valenti VEHEMENTLY OBJECTED TO THE EPISODE, "THE GUILTY MEN". Haslam either did not know this or

he knew it and withheld if from his readers. I find the latter irresponsible.

Jack

A REVIEW OF DR. MARY'S MONKEY

Where the author (humorously, I presume) calls it "part conspiracy and part factual", as though the conspiracy elements were not factual:

http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/tor/rnr/1739686632.html

I recommend this book for your summer reading list. Part conspiracy and part factual, Dr Mary's Monkey is real page turner that will inform and scare you.

While researching the mysterious death of Dr Mary Sherman, author Ed Haslam discovered that polio vaccines created in the 1950s had been tainted with a cancer-causing virus. This contamination was detected after half the doses, a staggering 100 million vaccines, had been administered to an unwitting public. Allegedly, the creators of the vaccine were afraid to admit the error and subsequently distributed the remaining half. Haslam studied data on cancer diagnoses and discovered that a massive epidemic of soft tissue cancers erupted in the years following the polio vaccines. To make matters worse, the cancer causing virus could be transmitted sexually and has even appeared in grandchildren of people who received the compromised vaccine.

Realizing their grave mistake, those "in the know" about the widespread inoculation tried to develop a vaccine against it by mutating the virus using a particle accelerator. It was during this process that they discovered that the radiation caused the virus to become even more aggressive. Then the project shifted over to weaponizing the cancer causing virus and eventually the weaponized virus was so powerful that it would kill a person in 28 days. This number was derived from a clandestine test of the virus on inmates from a Louisiana prison. The end result was a potent weapon that was virtually untraceable.

Making the story even more bizarre, many of the players in the cancer-causing virus story have connections to the JFK assassination. For instance, one of the researchers in the weaponization project had Lee Harvey Oswald as her bodyguard and handler. Additionally, one of the basis of operation for these studies was the home of longtime Kennedy assassination suspect David Ferrie. And bringing the tale back to where it all started, on the very day that the Warren Commission began their investigation of the JFK assassination, Dr Mary Sherman was murdered.

[Michael Hogan]

......And very early he lost me when he implied that the Nigel Turner Episode "The Love Story" was withdrawn

to conceal the Judyth story. Well, excuse me! All of the episodes were withdrawn because Lady Bird and

Valenti VEHEMENTLY OBJECTED TO THE EPISODE, "THE GUILTY MEN". Haslam either did not know this or

he knew it and withheld if from his readers. I find the latter irresponsible.

Jack

Agreed.

Michael...this is one of the most calm, polite and well-reasoned postings in this interminable thread.

There is so much more you could have covered, but confined yourself to a single topic.

Jack

......In the prologue of DMM, Haslam writes about the History Channel's decision to withdraw from

circulation the episode that dealt with Judyth Vary Baker. His failure to mention that the entire three

episodes were withdrawn (due to pressure from LBJ's supporters) and leave the reader with the belief

that Baker's story was the only episode that was withdrawn is misleading, to say the least.

[Dean Hartwell]

JVB EVIDENCE AND CROSS-EXAMINATION

UPDATED

This is a work in progress where I am collecting evidence about JVB's story. My focus is on her four basic assertions:

(1) JVB went to New Orleans during the time Lee Harvey Oswald is known to have been there.

On direct: the work time card mentioned on the main thread and shown on previously named web sites.

Cross-examination: None to date

(2) JVB met Lee Harvey Oswald.

On Direct: Anna Lewis' statements on a previously mentioned video on Google. She states that she and her husband David double-dated with JVB and Lee.

Cross-examination: Stephen says it would help to know more about what, if anything, anyone encouraged Anna to say before she talked on the video. He says she should also clarify why she gave a different story to Garrison than her husband regarding how she knew LHO, which may or may not be a problem. Barb adds that she believes JVB may have encouraged Anna before she made statements. Barb also states that she is trying to confirm a comment made Debra Conway as to whether Anna Lewis originally recalled JVB. Barb also claims that JVB sent around a "transcript" of an interview with one witness to another witness.

Re-direct: JVB states the following:

Debra Conway unexpectedly asked Lewis to discuss matters on videotape and that evidentiary matters were not discussed with her prior to the taping. Lewis agreed to taping on grounds it would be her only taping and that she told a representative of Garrison to leave her alone as she was about to have a baby and feared a miscarriage from stress. Husband David was willing to acknowledge contacts with Oswald but did not identify JVB as he did not know where she was.

Anna Lewis was not the only witness to verify that Baker and Oswald were intimate friends. William "Mac" McCullough is acknowledged to have been in New Orleans and working as a musician (and later, in other ways) for Carlos Marcello-owned restaurants and lounges. He is on audiotape as having seen Baker and Oswald together, but is consistently ignored. He decided to go on record despite warning Baker against speaking out at all because he had a heart condition.

Also ignored is the Charles Thomas family that has verified that their father/grandfather/uncle worked in clandestine matters and was engaged in activities that Baker described to them, proving she had been with Oswald and Thomas in New Orleans. Baker presented the family with irrefutable proof of having known Charles Thomas. The family lives in a private, hard-to-find location in Louisiana. Charles Thomas' granddaughter assisted Dr. John DeLane Williams in obtaining data on New Orleans for his statistical analysis of Baker and Oswald's activities.

The particulars Baker described were unique regarding Charles Thomas: his work in the 1950's as the Customs agent at the US-Canadian border in Buffalo, New York, at the time Oswald crossed the border there, his moving to Miami and working with Cubans and anti-Castro factions and with the Mafia there, his secrets of which he had been proud, the tattoos on his fingers, his German accent and silvery hair, and, of particular importance, his marriage to a Chitimacha native American Indian, and the fact that Thomas used the name "Arthur Young" in New Orleans --with which information Baker was eventually able to locate the Thomas family.

Thus, there are two living witnesses and the attestations of the Charles Thomas family supporting the fact of Baker's having known Oswald.

(3) JVB and Lee Harvey Oswald had an affair.

On direct: Comments made by Anna Lewis on this topic on the same video.

Cross-examination: See above. Jack adds that he believes several agencies and other parties watched LHO very closely in New Orleans and that none of the agencies has produced any report mentioning JVB.

Re-direct: JVB states the following:

A Department of Defense agent told her that he had looked in files of LHO and JVB and had seen pictures of JVB labeled “Marina Oswald.” The agent had seen a caption in both files noting that Marina was reportedly in Texas when the picture was taken of her in New Orleans.

In addition, Baker POSED as marina Oswald successfully because Marina and Baker had the same hair color and style, eye color, height and many facial resemblances. Marina Oswald was largely sequestered in a small part of New Orleans. The only time Marina Oswald visited the French Quarter in New Orleans, Oswald stayed home--she went, instead, with Ruth Paine, without Oswald.

Baker says Oswald refused to go because someone might have asked where "Marina" was in the presence of Marina. The incident of Oswald failing to accompany Marina and Ruth Paine to the French Quarter in September is described in the anti-Oswald book Marina and Lee.

Oswald only once did not tell marina Oswald the truth about where he worked---this sole time was when he worked with Baker at Reilly’s. Instead, he told Marina that he worked at a different coffee company (Leon Israel Coffee Company)--which McMillan, who wrote Marina and lee, called a "pointless lie." It was not: Oswald did not want Marina to see Baker.

Further, after he was fired from Reilly, Oswald still "went to work" every day and Marina was unaware, for weeks, that Oswald was no longer employed, which can be verified through a letter she wrote to Ruth Paine. There are many more such events which are ignored by the 'research community' indicating Oswald's and Baker's relationship existed. Of course, the statistical analysis indicates that there was a better than 98% chance that Baker and Oswald knew each other 'well' and a 1 in a million chance that their parallel work there was not deliberately pre-planned and arranged.

(4) JVB worked on a lab on a project to collect cancer cells and assess their potency to use to kill Fidel Castro.

On direct: Newspaper clippings posted show her interest in work in a science-related field and her excellence as science student.

Cross-examination: See above.

Re-direct: In addition, her ongoing work after high school is indicated as well (for example, an abstract exists showing she was working with deadly melanoma cancer at St. Francis College after high school.)

Former University of Florida students such as Dr. Kathy Santi and two of her former high school classmates have verified Baker's presence in pre-med courses and in the radiation section of the engineering labs a UF even though her official records do not mention such activities or courses.

Baker was also documented working in a highly advanced chemical research lab in 1963, despite having no degree in chemistry and an official "D" in chemistry on her UF college record

Sources in dispute: LHO: The True Story...

On direct: JVB states the following: The book is unauthorized due to a contract dispute. She submitted corrections that were not made in the publishing of the book. Livingstone did not allow her to see his editing or final edit.

Cross-examination: Barb states the following: The book’s status does not negate everything in it. On page 171 JVB says that Kerry Thornley took a picture of her and LHO together.

Re-direct: JVB states the following:

Regarding the Thornley picture, Oswald never gave the photo to Baker. The photo was made only to assuage suspicions Thornley had that Baker and Oswald were having an affair.

The statement that she was in a picture with LHO at the Trade Mart was given as speculation by JVB to Livingstone because she did not have good enough photos to make a determination. Researcher Martin Shackelford and Baker thought that she might be in the Rush film. These speculations were given to the editor, Mr. Livingstone, who published them without permission

Evidence rule: Independent corroborating evidence is best. Jack says it is a second source with no stake in the matter (paraphrase). Further questioning made it clear that he believes self-serving interest rules out a witness; I say it should be a factor for finder-of-fact (you) to consider.

Comments on credibility (based on one of the four assertions):

John Dolver asks: "Judyth, when you went to spend some time in Sweden and go through the process of applying for asylum, part of your claim is that you are a socialist. Could you please take time to outline the argument you have for this, as well as state why you consider this a point of relevance. Further, how do you reconcile that with the proposed murder of the head of state of the sovereign nation of Cuba and performing this task with the Central Intelligence Agency of the sovereign nation the United States of America. Please."

JVB replies:

SHOW US THE QUOTATION. This was supposed to be private, personal information. Only the verdict, with some explanatory statements, was supposed to be released to the public. I insist on seeing a copy of the document. Scan it, please.

The events of 1963 involved missiles capable of delivering nuclear warheads to my country, compliments of Castro. I was a 19-year-old American, in 1963, who had written President Kennedy and offered my services to my country."

Where it goes next: All members are free to respond with ideas on evidence that works for or against any of these assertions.

Edited May 15, 2010 by Dean Hartwell

[Stephen Roy]

Why is Baker the plaintiff (complainant), while those who have questions about her are the defendant(s)?

In the post above, why is the plaintiff quoted at length (while asserting facts not in the record) while the defendant(s) are quoted to a far lesser extent?

Edited May 15, 2010 by Stephen Roy

[Dean Hartwell]

Why is Baker the plaintiff (complainant), while those who have questions about her are the defendant(s)?

In the post above, why is the plaintiff quoted at length (while asserting facts not in the record) while the defendant(s) are quoted to a far lesser extent?

Stephen,

I made Baker the plaintiff because the plaintiff introduces the case. Here, her case is to assert she is telling the truth about her time in New Orleans.

I have quoted both the plaintiff (aka "direct") and the defendants ("cross") to the extent that they have provided evidence. Both sides may quesion anything the other side has said.

If by "record" you mean other posts on this thread, I initiated putting evidence on "direct examination." Since then, she has responded to what the defendants have said on "cross" to me by email as she does not access this forum.

If defendants want to send me information by PM or email, they may do so. I will then put it on the thread on an update post and if anyone does not agree I paraphrased or quoted them directly, they may say so.

Dean