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Review of Judyth Vary Baker Thread


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The link below connects to a YouTube video of an interview with Jim Fetzer and me. I give my impressions of the debate that has consumed over 2,000 posts about Judyth Vary Baker.

I consider the hypothesis that Jim put forward, the sources he used to support it, the response of critics and whether crucial questions about the topic were answered.

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Well, I'm glad the two of you had a cozy little chat, I'm sure that was nice.

I'm a little surprised, though, by what you discussed related to the asylum issue. First, I brought this up as I think it is relevant to the credibility of Judyth. She was far from truthful about this experience in 2008, and even less so now. This is shown in the thread.

Furthermore, Fetzer does not know what he is talking about when saying that I somehow was revealing confidential information. Once again he is obviously taking Judyth's sayso for granted, and once again, he is wrong. The information is in the public domain. It really is quite remarkable that this simple fact has not sunk in yet with Fetzer or Judyth.

Well, I've done my best to explain this..

Edited by Glenn Viklund
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One thing I hypothesise is that the court transcripts and deliberations are not in the public domain (the rulings and formalities are), but Judyth should have copies.

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One thing I hypothesise is that the court transcripts and deliberations are not in the public domain (the rulings and formalities are), but Judyth should have copies.

John,

As you've seen as well, there's more than enough in those documents that are public.

Dean,

I forgot, thank you very much for always being so responsive, that's appreciated.

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Here are some questions, many of which I asked without reply on the main thread, of Judyth Vary Baker's (JVB) critics:

Do we agree that JVB went to New Orleans during the time Lee Harvey Oswald is known to have been there?

If not, please explain the work time card mentioned on the main thread and shown on previously named web sites.

Do we agree that JVB met Lee Harvey Oswald?

If not, explain Anna Lewis' statements on a previously mentioned video. She states that she and her husband David double-dated with JVB and Lee.

Do we agree that JVB and Lee Harvey Oswald had an affair?

If not, explain comments made by Anna Lewis on this topic on the video.

Do we agree that JVB worked on a lab on a project to collect cancer cells to use to kill Fidel Castro?

If not, explain a better reason for her to go to New Orleans.

Explain the newspaper clippings shown on the thread that demonstrate her excellence as a science student.

Explain her admission of participating in an experiment on a prisoner (if you only believe this one statement by her, explain why it is the only one.)

Do you want better evidence? Explain what kind of evidence you wanted. Tell me what "independent corroborating evidence" is and what "bona fide witnesses" are.

Did you disbelieve JVB from the start? Explain why you participated at all.

Edited by Dean Hartwell
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Here are some questions, many of which I asked without reply on the main thread, of Judyth Vary Baker's (JVB) critics:

Do we agree that JVB went to New Orleans during the time Lee Harvey Oswald is known to have been there?

If not, please explain the work time card mentioned on the main thread and shown on previously named web sites.

Do we agree that JVB met Lee Harvey Oswald?

If not, explain Anna Lewis' statements on a previously mentioned video. She states that she and her husband David double-dated with JVB and Lee.

Do we agree that JVB and Lee Harvey Oswald had an affair?

If not, explain comments made by Anna Lewis on this topic on the video.

Do we agree that JVB worked on a lab on a project to collect cancer cells to use to kill Fidel Castro?

If not, explain a better reason for her to go to New Orleans.

Explain the newspaper clippings shown on the thread that demonstrate her excellence as a science student.

Explain her admission of participating in an experiment on a prisoner (if you only believe this one statement by her, explain why it is the only one.)

Do you want better evidence? Explain what kind of evidence you wanted. Tell me what "independent corroborating evidence" is and what "bona fide witnesses" are.

Did you disbelieve JVB from the start? Explain why you participated at all.

Has nothing to do with "evidence"... it appears (at least to me) the above questions are irrelevant. What does Lee Harvey Oswald or Harvey Lee(sic) Oswald boffing Judyth Baker have to do with JFK being assassinated? Why should I (or a Judge) care who he was sleeping with? Unless of course it was J. Edna Hoover.

Edited by David G. Healy
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Here it goes Dean

Q. Do we agree that JVB went to New Orleans during the time Lee Harvey Oswald is known to have been there?

A. Yes

Q. Do we agree that JVB met Lee Harvey Oswald?

A. No

Q.If not, explain Anna Lewis' statements on a previously mentioned video. She states that she and her husband David double-dated with JVB and Lee

A. Dont believe Anna Lewis for even one second

Q.Do we agree that JVB and Lee Harvey Oswald had an affair?

A. No

Q. If not, explain comments made by Anna Lewis on this topic on the video.

A. I do not believe Anna Lewis for even 1/10th of a second

Q.Do we agree that JVB worked on a lab on a project to collect cancer cells to use to kill Fidel Castro?

A. No way in hell

Q. If not, explain a better reason for her to go to New Orleans

A. Change of pace? Wanted to go to Tulane instead of Florida? Road Trip?

Q.Explain the newspaper clippings shown on the thread that demonstrate her excellence as a science student.

A. Explain what? She was a good science student? Ok I believe that Judyth was a good science student

Q.Explain her admission of participating in an experiment on a prisoner (if you only believe this one statement by her, explain why it is the only one.)

A. I dont believe Judyth ever touched a prisoner let alone did an experiment on one

Q. Do you want better evidence? Explain what kind of evidence you wanted. Tell me what "independent corroborating evidence" is and what "bona fide witnesses"

A. A picture or film of Judyth and Lee together

Q. Did you disbelieve JVB from the start?

A. No, I believed Judyth until about 5 minutes into her segment on TMWKK then I didnt believe her

Q. Explain why you participated at all

A. Because I didnt want to see what happened to Martin Shackleford happen to Jim, a researcher I respect more then he will ever know

Judyth is telling a fairy tale

I hope this helps you understand my position Dean

Dean

Edited by Dean Hagerman
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name='Dean Hartwell' date='May 10 2010, 04:45 AM' post='192233']

Here are some questions, many of which I asked without reply on the main thread, of Judyth Vary Baker's (JVB) critics:

Do we agree that JVB went to New Orleans during the time Lee Harvey Oswald is known to have been there?.....YES

Do we agree that JVB met Lee Harvey Oswald? .....VERY LIKELY

Do we agree that JVB and Lee Harvey Oswald had an affair?.....NO

Do we agree that JVB worked on a lab on a project to collect cancer cells to use to kill Fidel Castro?.....NO

Explain the newspaper clippings shown on the thread that demonstrate her excellence as a science student......SHE WAS A GOOD STUDENT.

Tell me what "independent corroborating evidence" is.....IT IS EVIDENCE BY A SECOND SOURCE WHO HAS NO STAKE IN THE INCIDENT.

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Do we agree that JVB met Lee Harvey Oswald?

If not, explain Anna Lewis' statements on a previously mentioned video. She states that she and her husband David double-dated with JVB and Lee.

First, we don't know much about Anna Lewis. Is this the Anna Lewis who was married to David Lewis? Under what circumstances was the interview taped? Did anybody discuss evidenciary matters with her prior to the interview? Why has Anna Lewis not been interviewed in any other venue (testimony, TMWKK, etc.)?

Second, what are we to make of that fact that David Lewis had a great deal of contact with NODA Jim Garrison's probe in its first few months, but described his alleged contacts with Oswald in way that did not include double-dating with Oswald and Baker? What are we to make of Garrison himself dropping Lewis as a witness after apparently falsely reporting that he was shot at by exile Carlos Quiroga?

Third, it is not unheard of for peripheral witnesses to be influenced by the comments of other claimed witnesses. I have seen a transcript of Baker's interview with Edwin Lea McGehee, wherein she tells him right off the top (of the transcript, at least) that she was the woman in the car near his barbershop in 1963, and makes a few other statements I consider inappropriate for a formal interview. This causes me to have less than full confidence in the Lewis interview.

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Guest James H. Fetzer

David, I have addressed this question many times during the thread. (1) It humanizes Oswald and makes very implausible that he was a "lone, demented assassin"; (2) it exposes the covert project to develop a bio-weapon to kill people and make it look "natural"; moreover, (3) it leads back to the mandated inoculation of some 100,000,000 Americans with a polio virus that was contaminated with a cancer-causing virus. All three are important: (1) to understandinging the flimsy character of what the American people have been told about Oswald; (2) to understanding what appears to have been the #1 "family jewel" the CIA is still unwilling to reveal; (3) to understanding the epidemic of soft tissue cancers that is taking place today. George Noory has even described (3) as perhaps "the greatest scandal in the history of the United States". Are these not sufficient reasons that go beyond the scope of "bofffing"?

Here are some questions, many of which I asked without reply on the main thread, of Judyth Vary Baker's (JVB) critics:

Do we agree that JVB went to New Orleans during the time Lee Harvey Oswald is known to have been there?

If not, please explain the work time card mentioned on the main thread and shown on previously named web sites.

Do we agree that JVB met Lee Harvey Oswald?

If not, explain Anna Lewis' statements on a previously mentioned video. She states that she and her husband David double-dated with JVB and Lee.

Do we agree that JVB and Lee Harvey Oswald had an affair?

If not, explain comments made by Anna Lewis on this topic on the video.

Do we agree that JVB worked on a lab on a project to collect cancer cells to use to kill Fidel Castro?

If not, explain a better reason for her to go to New Orleans.

Explain the newspaper clippings shown on the thread that demonstrate her excellence as a science student.

Explain her admission of participating in an experiment on a prisoner (if you only believe this one statement by her, explain why it is the only one.)

Do you want better evidence? Explain what kind of evidence you wanted. Tell me what "independent corroborating evidence" is and what "bona fide witnesses" are.

Did you disbelieve JVB from the start? Explain why you participated at all.

Has nothing to do with "evidence"... it appears (at least to me) the above questions are irrelevant. What does Lee Harvey Oswald or Harvey Lee(sic) Oswald boffing Judyth Baker have to do with JFK being assassinated? Why should I (or a Judge) care who he was sleeping with? Unless of course it was J. Edna Hoover.

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Guest James H. Fetzer

You must have stunning powers to be able to tell so much based upon so little. I think the principle that motivates your answers is simple: if it undermines Judyth's story, accept it; if not, reject it. This is a very sad commentary on your intellectual resources, Dean. You need to have GOOD REASONS both for accept and for rejecting. I am sorry, but you have offered no GOOD REASONS for rejecting Anna Lewis, for denying that she knew Oswald, for doubting that they had an affair, or for any of your other claims. You would even reject a photograph of them together on the grounds that it MIGHT HAVE BEEN faked. I am astounded that you would expect anyone to take you seriously when you claim you could tell that she is a fake FIVE MINUTES into "The Love Affair"! You are operating beyond the bounds of reason, alas, where discounting logic and evidence is the opposite of what I stand for in relation to JFK research.

Here it goes Dean

Q. Do we agree that JVB went to New Orleans during the time Lee Harvey Oswald is known to have been there?

A. Yes

Q. Do we agree that JVB met Lee Harvey Oswald?

A. No

Q.If not, explain Anna Lewis' statements on a previously mentioned video. She states that she and her husband David double-dated with JVB and Lee

A. Dont believe Anna Lewis for even one second

Q.Do we agree that JVB and Lee Harvey Oswald had an affair?

A. No

Q. If not, explain comments made by Anna Lewis on this topic on the video.

A. I do not believe Anna Lewis for even 1/10th of a second

Q.Do we agree that JVB worked on a lab on a project to collect cancer cells to use to kill Fidel Castro?

A. No way in hell

Q. If not, explain a better reason for her to go to New Orleans

A. Change of pace? Wanted to go to Tulane instead of Florida? Road Trip?

Q.Explain the newspaper clippings shown on the thread that demonstrate her excellence as a science student.

A. Explain what? She was a good science student? Ok I believe that Judyth was a good science student

Q.Explain her admission of participating in an experiment on a prisoner (if you only believe this one statement by her, explain why it is the only one.)

A. I dont believe Judyth ever touched a prisoner let alone did an experiment on one

Q. Do you want better evidence? Explain what kind of evidence you wanted. Tell me what "independent corroborating evidence" is and what "bona fide witnesses"

A. A picture or film of Judyth and Lee together

Q. Did you disbelieve JVB from the start?

A. No, I believed Judyth until about 5 minutes into her segment on TMWKK then I didnt believe her

Q. Explain why you participated at all

A. Because I didnt want to see what happened to Martin Shackleford happen to Jim, a researcher I respect more then he will ever know

Judyth is telling a fairy tale

I hope this helps you understand my position Dean

Dean

Edited by James H. Fetzer
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Jim

Ask me a series of questions about alteration, the films, the photos, the double head shot, Betzner, Altgens, Zapruder or any area of the assassination that I find important and have studied and I promise I will give you long detailed answers that will show you my "intellectual resources"

Like Jack said Judyth is not important even if she is telling the truth

I have read tons of Judyths posts and emails back in the day Jim

I have felt this way for a long time

Dean

You must have stunning powers to be able to tell so much based upon so little. I think the principle that motivates your answers is simple: if it undermines Judyth's story, accept it; if not, reject it. This is a very sad commentary on your intellectual resources, Dean. You need to have GOOD REASONS both for accept and for rejecting. I am sorry, but you have offered no GOOD REASONS for rejecting Anna Lewis, for denying that she knew Oswald, for doubting that they had an affair, or for any of your other claims. You would even reject a photograph of them together on the grounds that it MIGHT HAVE BEEN faked. I am astounded that you would expect anyone to take you seriously when you claim you could tell that she is a fake FIVE MINUTES into "The Love Affair"! You are operating beyond the bounds of reason, alas, where discounting logic and evidence is the opposite of what I stand for in relation to JFK research.
Here it goes Dean

Q. Do we agree that JVB went to New Orleans during the time Lee Harvey Oswald is known to have been there?

A. Yes

Q. Do we agree that JVB met Lee Harvey Oswald?

A. No

Q.If not, explain Anna Lewis' statements on a previously mentioned video. She states that she and her husband David double-dated with JVB and Lee

A. Dont believe Anna Lewis for even one second

Q.Do we agree that JVB and Lee Harvey Oswald had an affair?

A. No

Q. If not, explain comments made by Anna Lewis on this topic on the video.

A. I do not believe Anna Lewis for even 1/10th of a second

Q.Do we agree that JVB worked on a lab on a project to collect cancer cells to use to kill Fidel Castro?

A. No way in hell

Q. If not, explain a better reason for her to go to New Orleans

A. Change of pace? Wanted to go to Tulane instead of Florida? Road Trip?

Q.Explain the newspaper clippings shown on the thread that demonstrate her excellence as a science student.

A. Explain what? She was a good science student? Ok I believe that Judyth was a good science student

Q.Explain her admission of participating in an experiment on a prisoner (if you only believe this one statement by her, explain why it is the only one.)

A. I dont believe Judyth ever touched a prisoner let alone did an experiment on one

Q. Do you want better evidence? Explain what kind of evidence you wanted. Tell me what "independent corroborating evidence" is and what "bona fide witnesses"

A. A picture or film of Judyth and Lee together

Q. Did you disbelieve JVB from the start?

A. No, I believed Judyth until about 5 minutes into her segment on TMWKK then I didnt believe her

Q. Explain why you participated at all

A. Because I didnt want to see what happened to Martin Shackleford happen to Jim, a researcher I respect more then he will ever know

Judyth is telling a fairy tale

I hope this helps you understand my position Dean

Dean

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Hi Stephen, my replies are in CAPS:

Do we agree that JVB met Lee Harvey Oswald?

If not, explain Anna Lewis' statements on a previously mentioned video. She states that she and her husband David double-dated with JVB and Lee.

First, we don't know much about Anna Lewis. Is this the Anna Lewis who was married to David Lewis? Under what circumstances was the interview taped? Did anybody discuss evidenciary matters with her prior to the interview? Why has Anna Lewis not been interviewed in any other venue (testimony, TMWKK, etc.)?

THE VIDEO INTERVIEW LETS US LEARN MORE ABOUT ANNA LEWIS, WHO WAS MARRIED TO THE LATE DAVID LEWIS. IT WAS TAPED IN 2003 AND BROUGHT TO THE INTERNET BY WIM DANKBAAR. ACCORDING TO DANKBAAR IN A 2007 POST http://jfkmurdersolved.com/phpBB3/viewtopi...bff5af704433b39 DEBRA CONWAY INTERVIEWED LEWIS.

I DO NOT KNOW IF ANYONE DISCUSSED EVIDENTIARY MATTERS WITH LEWIS FIRST. THAT WOULD BE A GOOD QUESTION FOR ANY WITNESS. ANNA LEWIS, TO MY KNOWLEDGE, HAS NOT BEEN INTERVIEWED IN ANOTHER VENUE. SHE DID NOT TELL GARRISON THE TRUTH ABOUT KNOWING JVB. SHE SAID DAVID HAD TOLD HER TO KEEP HER MOUTH SHUT.

Second, what are we to make of that fact that David Lewis had a great deal of contact with NODA Jim Garrison's probe in its first few months, but described his alleged contacts with Oswald in way that did not include double-dating with Oswald and Baker? What are we to make of Garrison himself dropping Lewis as a witness after apparently falsely reporting that he was shot at by exile Carlos Quiroga?

I DO NOT KNOW WHY DAVID LEWIS DID NOT MENTION THE DOUBLE-DATING OR HIS STATEMENTS ABOUT QUIROGA. HE DOES NOT APPEAR ON THIS TAPE.

Third, it is not unheard of for peripheral witnesses to be influenced by the comments of other claimed witnesses. I have seen a transcript of Baker's interview with Edwin Lea McGehee, wherein she tells him right off the top (of the transcript, at least) that she was the woman in the car near his barbershop in 1963, and makes a few other statements I consider inappropriate for a formal interview. This causes me to have less than full confidence in the Lewis interview.

YOU MENTION JVB'S STATEMENTS AS A WAY TO EXPLAIN WHY YOU DO NOT HAVE FULL CONFIDENCE IN THE LEWIS INTERVIEW. I AM NOT SURE WHY YOU SAY THIS.

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Hi Jack,

By "stake in the incident," what do you mean? Financial stake, a friendship, a familial relationship?

The reason I ask is because I am trying to determine what evidence would conceivably work for you. If she, a married woman, was having an affair with a married man, it does not seem likely she would tell anyone outside her close friends or family.

If we rule out friends and family, we do not hear from Anna Lewis or JVB's sister.

If we are looking for a photograph to confirm the JVB-Oswald relationship, we are not likely to find it. I do not believe people having affairs would want their picture taken together.

The same problem arises as to the cancer project. If it was a secret project, then it would be no surprise that the participants would not tell others or document it.

Given these limitations, how likely would it be that we could find someone truly independent of any relationship with JVB who could document her affair with Oswald and/or the project?

Dean

Tell me what "independent corroborating evidence" is.....IT IS EVIDENCE BY A SECOND SOURCE WHO HAS NO STAKE IN THE INCIDENT.
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