HARRY J. DEAN

[William Kelly]

Looking closer at what Harry Dean and Lee Harvey Oswald were doing in their associations with such groups as the FPCC, JBS, CPUSA, SWP and DRE, I recalled something that E. Howard Hunt writes in his last book.

I think it is mentioned in the course of his recollections of being sent to Mexico City for the first time. He says that there are different types of agents - some remain quietly in place while others are activists and operators. Sun Tzu says there are five types of secret agents - native, inside, double and expendible are four I can think of. In any case, Oswald served as a number of different types of agents at different times in his career.

A.J. Weberman writes: ....The CIA penetrated the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. According to the Director of the Central Intelligence Agency, Richard Helms, to "monitor" a group was merely to attend its public meetings and hear what any citizen present would hear; to "infiltrate" a group was to join it as a member and appear to support its purposes in general; to "penetrate" a group was to gain a leadership position, and influence or direct its policies and actions. [RR fn p152].....

Link to Weberman quote: <A class=bbc_url title="External link" href="http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:8nqjEn_Rk-wJ:www.slideshare.net/AJWeberman/nodule-x17-dallas-march-1963-to-april-1963+Oswald+March+25+1963&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us" rel="nofollow external">http://webcache.goog...n&ct=clnk&gl=us

OSWALD SUBSCRIBES TO THE MILITANT

In October 1962 OSWALD wrote to the Trotskyist Socialist Workers Party in New York City. He attempted to join the Socialist Workers Party, but his application was not accepted because no chapter existed in the Dallas area. He wrote the Socialist Workers Party again, and offered his assistance in preparing posters. In October 1962 OSWALD wrote to a splinter group called the Socialist Labor Party and he requested literature. Prior to this, OSWALD had contacted the Soviet Embassy and the Daily World, the organ of the Communist Party. Now he was contacting the splinter groups of the left, who opposed the Communist Party. On October 17, 1962, the FBI SAC in New York sent a memorandum to the SAC in Dallas, Subject, Publishers New Press Inc. "Bureau letter to all offices, dated March 24, 1960, entitled, 'Security Investigations of Individuals' requested New York to obtain subscription lists of The Worker and to furnish the identities of subscribers to appropriate offices. (Deleted) Instructions to be followed by each office upon receipt of this information are set forth in referenced Bureau letter. (Name of Agents who initialed this document to file were deleted)." [FBI 100-8264-168 10.17.62 Subj: Pub. New Press Inc.]

OSWALD'S landlord on Mercedes Street, Chester Riggs, was contacted in July 1993:

I saw him weekly. He was an aloof, strange, different individual, very quiet, he read quite a bit. Not an aggressive person. He was relatively orderly. It was a low income area. The house was built during the war years for General Dynamics employees. I don't know how OSWALD found out the property was for let. OSWALD had his own entrance. The postman that came there also delivered to my commercial building where I had a business and told me that OSWALD was being investigated for receiving subversive literature.

On August 8, 1962, OSWALD and family moved into the Rotary Apartments. The telephone number "ED-5-0755," which turned out to the Rotary Apartments at 1501 7th Street in Dallas, was found on a slip of paper in OSWALD'S possessions. OSWALD and family lived there until November 1962. Click

to see color film of OSWALD at that time. S.A. John Fain was dissatisfied with the first interview and arranged to see OSWALD again on August 16, 1962. At the outset of this interview, OSWALD invited S.A. John Fain and his partner to question him in his home, but they declined in favor of their car. He was much friendlier, and assured them he would inform them if he were approached by the KGB. He doubted this would happen since, "his employment did not involve any sensitive information." When asked why he went to live in the Soviet Union, OSWALD told the Agents it was "nobody's business." He advised that no representative of the Soviet Union, the MVD or any intelligence agent of the Soviet Union ever attempted to elicit secret information concerning the United States or its defense, from him. OSWALD denied he ever told the Soviets at any time he would make available to them information concerning his U.S. Marine Corps specialty." According to the Warren Commission, S.A. John Fain - having concluded OSWALD was not a security risk, potentially dangerous or violent - had recommended that the case be placed in a closed status. A copy of S.A. John Fain's report was sent to the CIA. On August 30, 1962, the FBI closed the OSWALD case. From August 1962 to March 1963, OSWALD was free of active FBI investigation. S.A. John Fain retired from the Bureau in October 1962 and the closed LEE OSWALD case was not reassigned.

In August 1962 OSWALD sent for a subscription to The Worker; on September 28, 1962, "a source who has furnished reliable information in the past, made available photographs of the names and addresses of subscribers maintained by the Worker, an East Coast Communist newspaper." OSWALD'S name and address were noted. This information was sent to Dallas and initialed to file by S.A. Fain on October 22, 1962. The document contained this notation "1 verifax to Bur December 8, 1963 H." [FBI-100-10461-35] OSWALD was also in touch with the Soviet Embassy, Washington. He asked the Embassy to send him "any peridicals or bullitins which you may put out for the benefit of your citizens living, for a time, in the U.S.A." He inquired how he could subscribe to Pravda or Izvestia.

The Worker, known in the 1950's as The Daily Worker, was a Communist Party organ controlled by the Soviet Union. It received millions of dollars in illegal Soviet subsidies. Why was OSWALD still interested in Soviet-style Communism when he had expressed his disillusionment with the Soviet Union in his writing? OSWALD'S FBI case remained in a closed status despite specific orders to investigate subscribers to The Worker and despite his contact with the Soviet Embassy, Washington.

Edited July 16, 2010 by William Kelly

[Harry J.Dean]

Lazar, having read most of your posts, I ask where you fit in the following first

paragraph.

Here are some excerpts from the FOREWORD of my 1990 manuscript/book;

Resistance to this publication will be leveled mostly by my former fellow

members and associates in political, religious, Intelligence, and subversive

camps, also from their present-day allies and defenders...

As this presentation uncovers the victims, the damning intrigues, and secret

activities, rage and furious assaults will be felt that are designed to destroy

more than author credibility. From their "most effective weapons" irresistible

volleys will be aimed to blind the eye and mind of the reader to keep hidden the

'true identity" of the beast that they still serve.

When patriotism becomes their question, reference is made to my having answered

"the call" by serving low-level national security-intelligence. Working against

both foreign and domestic Communists, and the equally subversive "New Americanist"

scheme, as related in this writing.

hjay1211@gmail.com

[Ernie Lazar]

Harry -- your assertions about yourself and your purported association with the FBI or any other agency are subject to examination and critique. You do not get a "free pass" just because you think your statements about yourself should be mindlessly accepted and never challenged.

The second paragraph of your message below could easily be written by someone whose objective is diversion/suppression of critical inquiry or dissemination of disinformation. I could write an equivalent paragraph and then propose it should be applied to any criticism made about me by you or any of my critics in this forum. So what?

If you genuinely want people to believe your story -- then you should willingly answer (not evade) pertinent questions. Furthermore, you should sign a notarized affidavit to allow interested researchers to obtain access to any FBI documents or files concerning you.

As matters currently stand, we have an explicit statement by the FBI Assistant Director--Los Angeles field office that states categorically that you were never an FBI informant nor were you ever called upon to perform any service for the FBI.

Furthermore, there is no record in either the JBS headquarters or Los Angeles field file re: any information provided by any informant over the period of time that you claim that you provided such information about the JBS.

In addition, there is not even any reference in those files which reflects that the Bureau was seeking any specific information that could only be obtained through utilizing an informant. And there is no documentary evidence reflecting that the Los Angeles field office requested permission to use any informant inside the JBS nor any other evidence to support your statements.

Typically, (in my experience) when informants surfaced or revealed their status, the Bureau had no problem responding to inquiries about them by providing basic information about their informant status--even when informants were making controversial statements which the Bureau thought were absurd or statements which embarrassed the Bureau.

For example, I previously quoted the standard Bureau reply concerning Julia Brown, a 9-year FBI informant. Comparable statements were made regarding other informants such as Matt Cvetic, Karl Prussion, Lola Belle Holmes, Armand Penha, Gerald Kirk, and many other persons -- even though the Bureau thought their post-FBI activities were opportunistic or that they wrongly sought to capitalize upon their FBI association by attributing to themselves expertise which they did not actually possess.

So, in the absence of any verifiable factual evidence which corroborates your assertions regarding your alleged FBI "informant" status inside the JBS, there is no rational basis for believing them.

If I ever see anything factual which changes this situation, I will be the first person to acknowledge its existence. Lastly, just for clarity, I apply this same standard to ANYBODY who claims to have been an FBI informant. If there is no verifiable evidence to support such an assertion, then there is no reason to believe it.

Lazar, having read most of your posts, I ask where you fit in the following first

paragraph.

Here are some excerpts from the FOREWORD of my 1990 manuscript/book;

Resistance to this publication will be leveled mostly by my former fellow

members and associates in political, religious, Intelligence, and subversive

camps, also from their present-day allies and defenders...

As this presentation uncovers the victims, the damning intrigues, and secret

activities, rage and furious assaults will be felt that are designed to destroy

more than author credibility. From their "most effective weapons" irresistible

volleys will be aimed to blind the eye and mind of the reader to keep hidden the

'true identity" of the beast that they still serve.

When patriotism becomes their question, reference is made to my having answered

"the call" by serving low-level national security-intelligence. Working against

both foreign and domestic Communists, and the equally subversive "New Americanist"

scheme, as related in this writing.

hjay1211@gmail.com

Edited July 22, 2010 by Ernie Lazar

[William Kelly]

Harry -- your assertions about yourself and your purported association with the FBI or any other agency are subject to examination and critique. You do not get a "free pass" just because you think your statements about yourself should be mindlessly accepted and never challenged.

The second paragraph of your message below could easily be written by someone whose objective is diversion/suppression of critical inquiry or dissemination of disinformation. I could write an equivalent paragraph and then propose it should be applied to any criticism made about me by you or any of my critics in this forum. So what?

If you genuinely want people to believe your story -- then you should willingly answer (not evade) pertinent questions. Furthermore, you should sign a notarized affidavit to allow interested researchers to obtain access to any FBI documents or files concerning you.

HARRY, THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO YOU HAVE PREVIOUSLY AND WILLINGLY ANSWERED PERTINENT QUESTIONS FOR WHO BEIEVE YOU, AND HAVE READ THE HUNDREDS OF DOCUMENTS OF FBI AND CIA FILES THAT WERE RELEASED UNDER THE JFK ACT THAT YOU YOURSELF HAVEN'T EVEN READ. I DO THINK IT IS A GOOD IDEA HOWEVER, TO REQUEST YOUR FULL FILES FROM THE FBI, CIA AND ANY OTHER DOMESTIC INTELLIGENCE AGENCY YOU CAME INTO CONTACT WITH, SO WE CAN GET THE FULL STORY.

As matters currently stand, we have an explicit statement by the FBI Assistant Director--Los Angeles field office that states categorically that you were never an FBI informant nor were you ever called upon to perform any service for the FBI.

AND WE HAVE A VERY EXPLICIT SWORN AFFIDAVIT FROM J. EDGAR HOVER ATTESTING THAT THE ACCUSED ASSASSIN OF THE PRESIDENT WAS NEVER AN FBI INFORMATNT EITHER, USING ALMOST EXACTLY THE SAME WORDS THATTHE LA FIELD OFFICER USED TO DESCRIBE HARRY. AND HARRY, SINCE YOU WERE UNDER THE AUSPICIES OF THE CHICAGO FBI FOR AWHILE, DO YOU THINK THEY WOULD KNOW MORE ABOUT YOU THAN LA FBI?

Furthermore, there is no record in either the JBS headquarters or Los Angeles field file re: any information provided by any informant over the period of time that you claim that you provided such information about the JBS.

INDEED, THE FBI DIDN'T NEED AN INFORMANT IN THE JBS BECAUSE THEY CONTROLLED THE ORGANIZATION FROM THE TOP DOWN, SO THEY WENT OUT OF THEIR WAY NOT TO BOTHER TO RECRUIT INFORMANTS, AND HARRY WAS ONLY DOING HIS CIVIC DUTY WHEN HE DISCOVERED THAT THERE WERE ELEMENTS IN THE JBS WHO WERE PLANNING ON KILLING JFK IN MEXICO CITY IN 1962. GOD BLESS YOU HARRY.

In addition, there is not even any reference in those files which reflects that the Bureau was seeking any specific information that could only be obtained through utilizing an informant. And there is no documentary evidence reflecting that the Los Angeles field office requested permission to use any informant inside the JBS nor any other evidence to support your statements.

WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO BELIEVING HARRY OR WHAT YOU FIND IN THE FBI FILES, I BELIEVE HARRY. I ALREADY HAVE DOZENS OF EXAMPLES OF FBI FILES BEING WRONG AND HARRY'S ALWAYS BEEN SQUARE WITH ME.

Typically, (in my experience) when informants surfaced or revealed their status, the Bureau had no problem responding to inquiries about them by providing basic information about their informant status--even when informants were making controversial statements which the Bureau thought were absurd or statements which embarrassed the Bureau.

For example, I previously quoted the standard Bureau reply concerning Julia Brown, a 9-year FBI informant.

AH YES, THE BLACK CHICK WHOSE NAME I COULDN'T RECALL, JULIA BROWN, WHO FOR NINE YEARS WAS PAID BY THE FBI TO BE A COMMIE RAT, AND WHEN SHE CAME CLEAN WENT OUT ON THE LECTURE CIRCUIT TO BADMOUTH MARTIN LUTHER KING - WHO SHE CALLED A COMMUNIST! GIVE ME FREAKIN' BREAK. I NOW BELIEVE THAT THERE WERE MORE COMMIE FBI INFORMANTS LIKE PHILBRICK, WHO EXPRESSED FOREKNOWLEDGE OF THE ASSASSINATION OF JFK, THAN THERE WERE LEGITIMATE COMMIES. LIKE THE KKK, I WANT TO KNOW IF SEN. BYRD, WHO CARRIED A COPY OF THE CONSTITUTION IN HIS WALLET, WAS HE AN FBI INFORMANT ON THE KKK LIKE GERALD FORD WAS ON THE WC?

Comparable statements were made regarding other informants such as Matt Cvetic, Karl Prussion, Lola Belle Holmes, Armand Penha, Gerald Kirk, and many other persons --

AND EVERYONE OF THEM IS A SCUMB WHO YOU WOULDN'T TRUST TO SIT DOWN AT DINNER WITH YOUR FAMILY, WHILE HARRY YOU CAN TRUST IS A GOOD MAN WHO RECOGNIZED HIS MISTAKES AND CAME CLEAN, SO HARRY IS NOT AT ALL LIKE ANY OF THE OFFICAL FBI INFORMANTS WHO ARE, UNLIKE HARRY, CRIMINAL INFORMANTS WHO GOT OFF.

even though the Bureau thought their post-FBI activities were opportunistic or that they wrongly sought to capitalize upon their FBI association by attributing to themselves expertise which they did not actually possess.

THE ONLY EXPERTISE THAT HARRY HAS IS THAT HE ACTED VERY SIMILAR TO LEE HARVEY OSWALD IN THE SUMMER LEADING UP TO THE ASSASSINATION, AND THEIR FILES, AND THEIR ASSOCIATIONS WITH THE FPCC AND GOVERNMENT INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES, ESPECIALLY THE FBI, ARE ALMOST IDENTICAL, INCLUDING THE LANGUAGE USED TO DENY THEIR ASSOCIATION WITH THE FBI, EXCEPT WE HAVE HARRY AS A WILLING, LIVING AND HONEST WITNESS, WHILE OSWALD WAS MURDERED WHILE IN POLICE CUSTODY.

So, in the absence of any verifiable factual evidence which corroborates your assertions regarding your alleged FBI "informant" status inside the JBS, there is no rational basis for believing them.

THERE IS NO RATIONAL BASIS FOR YOU, WHO BELIEVES THE FBI DENIALS AND THE CRIMINAL INFORMANTS AND INSTIGATORS. BUT DON'T SPEAK FOR ME OR THOSE WHO DO BELIEVE HARRY INSTEAD OF THE CROSS DRESSING QUEERS WHO WERE BLACKMAILED BY THE MOB AND ABDICATED THEIR RESPONSIBLITY TO THE CONSTITUTION BY FRAMING AND KILLING THE ACCUSED ASSASSIN INSTEAD OF PROPERLY INVESTIGATING THE MURDER OF THE PRESIDENT AND ARRESTING AND CONVICTING THOSE ACTUALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS MURDER.

If I ever see anything factual which changes this situation, I will be the first person to acknowledge its existence. Lastly, just for clarity, I apply this same standard to ANYBODY who claims to have been an FBI informant. If there is no verifiable evidence to support such an assertion, then there is no reason to believe it.

WELL ERNIE, WILL YOU PLEASE CHECK OUT THOSE WHO DON'T CLAIM TO BE AN FBI INFORMANT BUT WHO WE SUSPECT THEM TO BE, LIKE OSWALD, GERALD FORD AND SEN. BYRD?

THANKS ERNIE,

MAYBE YOU CAN BE OF SERVICE

BILL KELLY

Lazar, having read most of your posts, I ask where you fit in the following first

paragraph.

Here are some excerpts from the FOREWORD of my 1990 manuscript/book;

Resistance to this publication will be leveled mostly by my former fellow

members and associates in political, religious, Intelligence, and subversive

camps, also from their present-day allies and defenders...

As this presentation uncovers the victims, the damning intrigues, and secret

activities, rage and furious assaults will be felt that are designed to destroy

more than author credibility. From their "most effective weapons" irresistible

volleys will be aimed to blind the eye and mind of the reader to keep hidden the

'true identity" of the beast that they still serve.

When patriotism becomes their question, reference is made to my having answered

"the call" by serving low-level national security-intelligence. Working against

both foreign and domestic Communists, and the equally subversive "New Americanist"

scheme, as related in this writing.

hjay1211@gmail.com

Edited July 22, 2010 by William Kelly

[Harry J.Dean]

Harry -- your assertions about yourself and your purported association with the FBI or any other agency are subject to examination and critique. You do not get a "free pass" just because you think your statements about yourself should be mindlessly accepted and never challenged.

The second paragraph of your message below could easily be written by someone whose objective is diversion/suppression of critical inquiry or dissemination of disinformation. I could write an equivalent paragraph and then propose it should be applied to any criticism made about me by you or any of my critics in this forum. So what?

If you genuinely want people to believe your story -- then you should willingly answer (not evade) pertinent questions. Furthermore, you should sign a notarized affidavit to allow interested researchers to obtain access to any FBI documents or files concerning you.

As matters currently stand, we have an explicit statement by the FBI Assistant Director--Los Angeles field office that states categorically that you were never an FBI informant nor were you ever called upon to perform any service for the FBI.

Furthermore, there is no record in either the JBS headquarters or Los Angeles field file re: any information provided by any informant over the period of time that you claim that you provided such information about the JBS.

In addition, there is not even any reference in those files which reflects that the Bureau was seeking any specific information that could only be obtained through utilizing an informant. And there is no documentary evidence reflecting that the Los Angeles field office requested permission to use any informant inside the JBS nor any other evidence to support your statements.

Typically, (in my experience) when informants surfaced or revealed their status, the Bureau had no problem responding to inquiries about them by providing basic information about their informant status--even when informants were making controversial statements which the Bureau thought were absurd or statements which embarrassed the Bureau.

For example, I previously quoted the standard Bureau reply concerning Julia Brown, a 9-year FBI informant. Comparable statements were made regarding other informants such as Matt Cvetic, Karl Prussion, Lola Belle Holmes, Armand Penha, Gerald Kirk, and many other persons -- even though the Bureau thought their post-FBI activities were opportunistic or that they wrongly sought to capitalize upon their FBI association by attributing to themselves expertise which they did not actually possess.

So, in the absence of any verifiable factual evidence which corroborates your assertions regarding your alleged FBI "informant" status inside the JBS, there is no rational basis for believing them.

If I ever see anything factual which changes this situation, I will be the first person to acknowledge its existence. Lastly, just for clarity, I apply this same standard to ANYBODY who claims to have been an FBI informant. If there is no verifiable evidence to support such an assertion, then there is no reason to believe it.

Lazar, having read most of your posts, I ask where you fit in the following first

paragraph.

Here are some excerpts from the FOREWORD of my 1990 manuscript/book;

Resistance to this publication will be leveled mostly by my former fellow

members and associates in political, religious, Intelligence, and subversive

camps, also from their present-day allies and defenders...

As this presentation uncovers the victims, the damning intrigues, and secret

activities, rage and furious assaults will be felt that are designed to destroy

more than author credibility. From their "most effective weapons" irresistible

volleys will be aimed to blind the eye and mind of the reader to keep hidden the

'true identity" of the beast that they still serve.

When patriotism becomes their question, reference is made to my having answered

"the call" by serving low-level national security-intelligence. Working against

both foreign and domestic Communists, and the equally subversive "New Americanist"

scheme, as related in this writing.

hjay1211@gmail.com

I have no desire to prove anything re; experiences as outlined in the

1990 manuscript/book. I continue to await the withheld documents covering my

associations with US. Intelligence, and Cuban connections & etc, all of which

soon-on became my eternal burden and since reached the point where I care not

at all about those life destroying events.

The main purpose of the ms/book was to leave a record for relatives, descendants,

as a record, and for others who may be interested.

So I leave it here, until the missing records are revealed.

hjay1211@gmail.com

[Ernie Lazar]

Harry -- your assertions about yourself and your purported association with the FBI or any other agency are subject to examination and critique. You do not get a "free pass" just because you think your statements about yourself should be mindlessly accepted and never challenged.

The second paragraph of your message below could easily be written by someone whose objective is diversion/suppression of critical inquiry or dissemination of disinformation. I could write an equivalent paragraph and then propose it should be applied to any criticism made about me by you or any of my critics in this forum. So what?

If you genuinely want people to believe your story -- then you should willingly answer (not evade) pertinent questions. Furthermore, you should sign a notarized affidavit to allow interested researchers to obtain access to any FBI documents or files concerning you.

HARRY, THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO YOU HAVE PREVIOUSLY AND WILLINGLY ANSWERED PERTINENT QUESTIONS FOR WHO BEIEVE YOU, AND HAVE READ THE HUNDREDS OF DOCUMENTS OF FBI AND CIA FILES THAT WERE RELEASED UNDER THE JFK ACT THAT YOU YOURSELF HAVEN'T EVEN READ. I DO THINK IT IS A GOOD IDEA HOWEVER, TO REQUEST YOUR FULL FILES FROM THE FBI, CIA AND ANY OTHER DOMESTIC INTELLIGENCE AGENCY YOU CAME INTO CONTACT WITH, SO WE CAN GET THE FULL STORY.

As matters currently stand, we have an explicit statement by the FBI Assistant Director--Los Angeles field office that states categorically that you were never an FBI informant nor were you ever called upon to perform any service for the FBI.

AND WE HAVE A VERY EXPLICIT SWORN AFFIDAVIT FROM J. EDGAR HOVER ATTESTING THAT THE ACCUSED ASSASSIN OF THE PRESIDENT WAS NEVER AN FBI INFORMATNT EITHER, USING ALMOST EXACTLY THE SAME WORDS THATTHE LA FIELD OFFICER USED TO DESCRIBE HARRY. AND HARRY, SINCE YOU WERE UNDER THE AUSPICIES OF THE CHICAGO FBI FOR AWHILE, DO YOU THINK THEY WOULD KNOW MORE ABOUT YOU THAN LA FBI?

Furthermore, there is no record in either the JBS headquarters or Los Angeles field file re: any information provided by any informant over the period of time that you claim that you provided such information about the JBS.

INDEED, THE FBI DIDN'T NEED AN INFORMANT IN THE JBS BECAUSE THEY CONTROLLED THE ORGANIZATION FROM THE TOP DOWN, SO THEY WENT OUT OF THEIR WAY NOT TO BOTHER TO RECRUIT INFORMANTS, AND HARRY WAS ONLY DOING HIS CIVIC DUTY WHEN HE DISCOVERED THAT THERE WERE ELEMENTS IN THE JBS WHO WERE PLANNING ON KILLING JFK IN MEXICO CITY IN 1962. GOD BLESS YOU HARRY.

BK -- This is entirely a FABRICATION of your imagination. You have set up a flawless self-sealing circular argument. A circular argument begins with an unproven predicate (such as the "FBI controlled the JBS from the top down" -- and then proceeds to make other statements/assertions which are based upon or flow from the original unproven predicate.

If, as you claim, the FBI controlled the JBS from the top down then why did it require ANY "informants" inside the JBS? If they "controlled" the JBS -- why did they publicly seek to discredit the JBS and its founder and the ideas the JBS circulated? And why did the FBI express, in internal memos, both amazement and disdain about the constant false assertions which they constantly confronted which originated from JBS officials, members, speakers, and writers? What data would convince you that your premise is entirely false?

In addition, there is not even any reference in those files which reflects that the Bureau was seeking any specific information that could only be obtained through utilizing an informant. And there is no documentary evidence reflecting that the Los Angeles field office requested permission to use any informant inside the JBS nor any other evidence to support your statements.

WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO BELIEVING HARRY OR WHAT YOU FIND IN THE FBI FILES, I BELIEVE HARRY. I ALREADY HAVE DOZENS OF EXAMPLES OF FBI FILES BEING WRONG AND HARRY'S ALWAYS BEEN SQUARE WITH ME.

Why would FBI files contain internal memos written by senior officials which reflect data that was designed to mislead itself?

Typically, (in my experience) when informants surfaced or revealed their status, the Bureau had no problem responding to inquiries about them by providing basic information about their informant status--even when informants were making controversial statements which the Bureau thought were absurd or statements which embarrassed the Bureau.

For example, I previously quoted the standard Bureau reply concerning Julia Brown, a 9-year FBI informant.

AH YES, THE BLACK CHICK WHOSE NAME I COULDN'T RECALL, JULIA BROWN, WHO FOR NINE YEARS WAS PAID BY THE FBI TO BE A COMMIE RAT, AND WHEN SHE CAME CLEAN WENT OUT ON THE LECTURE CIRCUIT TO BADMOUTH MARTIN LUTHER KING - WHO SHE CALLED A COMMUNIST! GIVE ME FREAKIN' BREAK. I NOW BELIEVE THAT THERE WERE MORE COMMIE FBI INFORMANTS LIKE PHILBRICK, WHO EXPRESSED FOREKNOWLEDGE OF THE ASSASSINATION OF JFK, THAN THERE WERE LEGITIMATE COMMIES. LIKE THE KKK, I WANT TO KNOW IF SEN. BYRD, WHO CARRIED A COPY OF THE CONSTITUTION IN HIS WALLET, WAS HE AN FBI INFORMANT ON THE KKK LIKE GERALD FORD WAS ON THE WC?

If, as you claim, the FBI controlled the JBS from the top down, why didn't it "control" Julia Brown and prevent her from making speeches which senior Bureau officials characterized as making absurd statements which flatly contradicted the results of FBI investigations? Why did senior Bureau officials refuse to even answer Julia's letters after she became associated with the JBS--because they thought she (like others) had been seduced by "right wing extremist" ideology?

Comparable statements were made regarding other informants such as Matt Cvetic, Karl Prussion, Lola Belle Holmes, Armand Penha, Gerald Kirk, and many other persons --

AND EVERYONE OF THEM IS A SCUMB WHO YOU WOULDN'T TRUST TO SIT DOWN AT DINNER WITH YOUR FAMILY, WHILE HARRY YOU CAN TRUST IS A GOOD MAN WHO RECOGNIZED HIS MISTAKES AND CAME CLEAN, SO HARRY IS NOT AT ALL LIKE ANY OF THE OFFICAL FBI INFORMANTS WHO ARE, UNLIKE HARRY, CRIMINAL INFORMANTS WHO GOT OFF.

"Criminal informants"? What "crimes" did Armand Penha, Lola Belle Holmes, Gerald Kirk, Karl Prussion, etc. commit?

even though the Bureau thought their post-FBI activities were opportunistic or that they wrongly sought to capitalize upon their FBI association by attributing to themselves expertise which they did not actually possess.

THE ONLY EXPERTISE THAT HARRY HAS IS THAT HE ACTED VERY SIMILAR TO LEE HARVEY OSWALD IN THE SUMMER LEADING UP TO THE ASSASSINATION, AND THEIR FILES, AND THEIR ASSOCIATIONS WITH THE FPCC AND GOVERNMENT INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES, ESPECIALLY THE FBI, ARE ALMOST IDENTICAL, INCLUDING THE LANGUAGE USED TO DENY THEIR ASSOCIATION WITH THE FBI, EXCEPT WE HAVE HARRY AS A WILLING, LIVING AND HONEST WITNESS, WHILE OSWALD WAS MURDERED WHILE IN POLICE CUSTODY.

So, what you are really proposing is that we should believe every word Harry writes or says. There is no conceivable possibility that he is mistaken about anything substantive? And anything in FBI files which would serve to discredit Harry is, by definition, non-credible. Another flawless circular argument which permanently precludes you from ever acknowledging error.

So, in the absence of any verifiable factual evidence which corroborates your assertions regarding your alleged FBI "informant" status inside the JBS, there is no rational basis for believing them.

THERE IS NO RATIONAL BASIS FOR YOU, WHO BELIEVES THE FBI DENIALS AND THE CRIMINAL INFORMANTS AND INSTIGATORS. BUT DON'T SPEAK FOR ME OR THOSE WHO DO BELIEVE HARRY INSTEAD OF THE CROSS DRESSING QUEERS WHO WERE BLACKMAILED BY THE MOB AND ABDICATED THEIR RESPONSIBLITY TO THE CONSTITUTION BY FRAMING AND KILLING THE ACCUSED ASSASSIN INSTEAD OF PROPERLY INVESTIGATING THE MURDER OF THE PRESIDENT AND ARRESTING AND CONVICTING THOSE ACTUALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS MURDER.

What "criminal informants and instigators" do I "believe"? My reports about these folks demolish their post-FBI claims. Instead of "believing" them, I discuss in exhaustive detail why they cannot be believed in their post-FBI speeches and writings or in some cases in their narratives about their own background. Another example of how you malign me for something I am not guilty of and then use straw man arguments.

If I ever see anything factual which changes this situation, I will be the first person to acknowledge its existence. Lastly, just for clarity, I apply this same standard to ANYBODY who claims to have been an FBI informant. If there is no verifiable evidence to support such an assertion, then there is no reason to believe it.

WELL ERNIE, WILL YOU PLEASE CHECK OUT THOSE WHO DON'T CLAIM TO BE AN FBI INFORMANT BUT WHO WE SUSPECT THEM TO BE, LIKE OSWALD, GERALD FORD AND SEN. BYRD?

THANKS ERNIE,

MAYBE YOU CAN BE OF SERVICE

BILL KELLY

Lazar, having read most of your posts, I ask where you fit in the following first

paragraph.

Here are some excerpts from the FOREWORD of my 1990 manuscript/book;

Resistance to this publication will be leveled mostly by my former fellow

members and associates in political, religious, Intelligence, and subversive

camps, also from their present-day allies and defenders...

As this presentation uncovers the victims, the damning intrigues, and secret

activities, rage and furious assaults will be felt that are designed to destroy

more than author credibility. From their "most effective weapons" irresistible

volleys will be aimed to blind the eye and mind of the reader to keep hidden the

'true identity" of the beast that they still serve.

When patriotism becomes their question, reference is made to my having answered

"the call" by serving low-level national security-intelligence. Working against

both foreign and domestic Communists, and the equally subversive "New Americanist"

scheme, as related in this writing.

hjay1211@gmail.com

Edited July 22, 2010 by Ernie Lazar

[Harry J.Dean]

Harry -- your assertions about yourself and your purported association with the FBI or any other agency are subject to examination and critique. You do not get a "free pass" just because you think your statements about yourself should be mindlessly accepted and never challenged.

The second paragraph of your message below could easily be written by someone whose objective is diversion/suppression of critical inquiry or dissemination of disinformation. I could write an equivalent paragraph and then propose it should be applied to any criticism made about me by you or any of my critics in this forum. So what?

If you genuinely want people to believe your story -- then you should willingly answer (not evade) pertinent questions. Furthermore, you should sign a notarized affidavit to allow interested researchers to obtain access to any FBI documents or files concerning you.

HARRY, THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO YOU HAVE PREVIOUSLY AND WILLINGLY ANSWERED PERTINENT QUESTIONS FOR WHO BEIEVE YOU, AND HAVE READ THE HUNDREDS OF DOCUMENTS OF FBI AND CIA FILES THAT WERE RELEASED UNDER THE JFK ACT THAT YOU YOURSELF HAVEN'T EVEN READ. I DO THINK IT IS A GOOD IDEA HOWEVER, TO REQUEST YOUR FULL FILES FROM THE FBI, CIA AND ANY OTHER DOMESTIC INTELLIGENCE AGENCY YOU CAME INTO CONTACT WITH, SO WE CAN GET THE FULL STORY.

As matters currently stand, we have an explicit statement by the FBI Assistant Director--Los Angeles field office that states categorically that you were never an FBI informant nor were you ever called upon to perform any service for the FBI.

AND WE HAVE A VERY EXPLICIT SWORN AFFIDAVIT FROM J. EDGAR HOVER ATTESTING THAT THE ACCUSED ASSASSIN OF THE PRESIDENT WAS NEVER AN FBI INFORMATNT EITHER, USING ALMOST EXACTLY THE SAME WORDS THATTHE LA FIELD OFFICER USED TO DESCRIBE HARRY. AND HARRY, SINCE YOU WERE UNDER THE AUSPICIES OF THE CHICAGO FBI FOR AWHILE, DO YOU THINK THEY WOULD KNOW MORE ABOUT YOU THAN LA FBI?

Furthermore, there is no record in either the JBS headquarters or Los Angeles field file re: any information provided by any informant over the period of time that you claim that you provided such information about the JBS.

INDEED, THE FBI DIDN'T NEED AN INFORMANT IN THE JBS BECAUSE THEY CONTROLLED THE ORGANIZATION FROM THE TOP DOWN, SO THEY WENT OUT OF THEIR WAY NOT TO BOTHER TO RECRUIT INFORMANTS, AND HARRY WAS ONLY DOING HIS CIVIC DUTY WHEN HE DISCOVERED THAT THERE WERE ELEMENTS IN THE JBS WHO WERE PLANNING ON KILLING JFK IN MEXICO CITY IN 1962. GOD BLESS YOU HARRY.

In addition, there is not even any reference in those files which reflects that the Bureau was seeking any specific information that could only be obtained through utilizing an informant. And there is no documentary evidence reflecting that the Los Angeles field office requested permission to use any informant inside the JBS nor any other evidence to support your statements.

WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO BELIEVING HARRY OR WHAT YOU FIND IN THE FBI FILES, I BELIEVE HARRY. I ALREADY HAVE DOZENS OF EXAMPLES OF FBI FILES BEING WRONG AND HARRY'S ALWAYS BEEN SQUARE WITH ME.

Typically, (in my experience) when informants surfaced or revealed their status, the Bureau had no problem responding to inquiries about them by providing basic information about their informant status--even when informants were making controversial statements which the Bureau thought were absurd or statements which embarrassed the Bureau.

For example, I previously quoted the standard Bureau reply concerning Julia Brown, a 9-year FBI informant.

AH YES, THE BLACK CHICK WHOSE NAME I COULDN'T RECALL, JULIA BROWN, WHO FOR NINE YEARS WAS PAID BY THE FBI TO BE A COMMIE RAT, AND WHEN SHE CAME CLEAN WENT OUT ON THE LECTURE CIRCUIT TO BADMOUTH MARTIN LUTHER KING - WHO SHE CALLED A COMMUNIST! GIVE ME FREAKIN' BREAK. I NOW BELIEVE THAT THERE WERE MORE COMMIE FBI INFORMANTS LIKE PHILBRICK, WHO EXPRESSED FOREKNOWLEDGE OF THE ASSASSINATION OF JFK, THAN THERE WERE LEGITIMATE COMMIES. LIKE THE KKK, I WANT TO KNOW IF SEN. BYRD, WHO CARRIED A COPY OF THE CONSTITUTION IN HIS WALLET, WAS HE AN FBI INFORMANT ON THE KKK LIKE GERALD FORD WAS ON THE WC?

Comparable statements were made regarding other informants such as Matt Cvetic, Karl Prussion, Lola Belle Holmes, Armand Penha, Gerald Kirk, and many other persons --

AND EVERYONE OF THEM IS A SCUMB WHO YOU WOULDN'T TRUST TO SIT DOWN AT DINNER WITH YOUR FAMILY, WHILE HARRY YOU CAN TRUST IS A GOOD MAN WHO RECOGNIZED HIS MISTAKES AND CAME CLEAN, SO HARRY IS NOT AT ALL LIKE ANY OF THE OFFICAL FBI INFORMANTS WHO ARE, UNLIKE HARRY, CRIMINAL INFORMANTS WHO GOT OFF.

even though the Bureau thought their post-FBI activities were opportunistic or that they wrongly sought to capitalize upon their FBI association by attributing to themselves expertise which they did not actually possess.

THE ONLY EXPERTISE THAT HARRY HAS IS THAT HE ACTED VERY SIMILAR TO LEE HARVEY OSWALD IN THE SUMMER LEADING UP TO THE ASSASSINATION, AND THEIR FILES, AND THEIR ASSOCIATIONS WITH THE FPCC AND GOVERNMENT INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES, ESPECIALLY THE FBI, ARE ALMOST IDENTICAL, INCLUDING THE LANGUAGE USED TO DENY THEIR ASSOCIATION WITH THE FBI, EXCEPT WE HAVE HARRY AS A WILLING, LIVING AND HONEST WITNESS, WHILE OSWALD WAS MURDERED WHILE IN POLICE CUSTODY.

So, in the absence of any verifiable factual evidence which corroborates your assertions regarding your alleged FBI "informant" status inside the JBS, there is no rational basis for believing them.

THERE IS NO RATIONAL BASIS FOR YOU, WHO BELIEVES THE FBI DENIALS AND THE CRIMINAL INFORMANTS AND INSTIGATORS. BUT DON'T SPEAK FOR ME OR THOSE WHO DO BELIEVE HARRY INSTEAD OF THE CROSS DRESSING QUEERS WHO WERE BLACKMAILED BY THE MOB AND ABDICATED THEIR RESPONSIBLITY TO THE CONSTITUTION BY FRAMING AND KILLING THE ACCUSED ASSASSIN INSTEAD OF PROPERLY INVESTIGATING THE MURDER OF THE PRESIDENT AND ARRESTING AND CONVICTING THOSE ACTUALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS MURDER.

If I ever see anything factual which changes this situation, I will be the first person to acknowledge its existence. Lastly, just for clarity, I apply this same standard to ANYBODY who claims to have been an FBI informant. If there is no verifiable evidence to support such an assertion, then there is no reason to believe it.

WELL ERNIE, WILL YOU PLEASE CHECK OUT THOSE WHO DON'T CLAIM TO BE AN FBI INFORMANT BUT WHO WE SUSPECT THEM TO BE, LIKE OSWALD, GERALD FORD AND SEN. BYRD?

THANKS ERNIE,

MAYBE YOU CAN BE OF SERVICE

BILL KELLY

Lazar, having read most of your posts, I ask where you fit in the following first

paragraph.

Here are some excerpts from the FOREWORD of my 1990 manuscript/book;

Resistance to this publication will be leveled mostly by my former fellow

members and associates in political, religious, Intelligence, and subversive

camps, also from their present-day allies and defenders...

As this presentation uncovers the victims, the damning intrigues, and secret

activities, rage and furious assaults will be felt that are designed to destroy

more than author credibility. From their "most effective weapons" irresistible

volleys will be aimed to blind the eye and mind of the reader to keep hidden the

'true identity" of the beast that they still serve.

When patriotism becomes their question, reference is made to my having answered

"the call" by serving low-level national security-intelligence. Working against

both foreign and domestic Communists, and the equally subversive "New Americanist"

scheme, as related in this writing.

hjay1211@gmail.com

Hey Bill

Re; withheld records:

Should we wonder if the agencies would release such seeing as they

did not do so, along with those they did make available, and could such request expect

results?

Even if I knew how to approach this it is almost certain I won't make the effort. However

I leave it to you if you choose this quest. Just let me know what info. is needed from

here?

Harry

[William Kelly]

Question for Ernie Lazar:

Ernie, what happened when the KKK hung a black guy from a tree and there were FBI informants among the murderers?

Thanks,

Bill Kelly

[Harry J.Dean]

Harry -- your assertions about yourself and your purported association with the FBI or any other agency are subject to examination and critique. You do not get a "free pass" just because you think your statements about yourself should be mindlessly accepted and never challenged.

The second paragraph of your message below could easily be written by someone whose objective is diversion/suppression of critical inquiry or dissemination of disinformation. I could write an equivalent paragraph and then propose it should be applied to any criticism made about me by you or any of my critics in this forum. So what?

If you genuinely want people to believe your story -- then you should willingly answer (not evade) pertinent questions. Furthermore, you should sign a notarized affidavit to allow interested researchers to obtain access to any FBI documents or files concerning you.

HARRY, THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO YOU HAVE PREVIOUSLY AND WILLINGLY ANSWERED PERTINENT QUESTIONS FOR WHO BEIEVE YOU, AND HAVE READ THE HUNDREDS OF DOCUMENTS OF FBI AND CIA FILES THAT WERE RELEASED UNDER THE JFK ACT THAT YOU YOURSELF HAVEN'T EVEN READ. I DO THINK IT IS A GOOD IDEA HOWEVER, TO REQUEST YOUR FULL FILES FROM THE FBI, CIA AND ANY OTHER DOMESTIC INTELLIGENCE AGENCY YOU CAME INTO CONTACT WITH, SO WE CAN GET THE FULL STORY.

As matters currently stand, we have an explicit statement by the FBI Assistant Director--Los Angeles field office that states categorically that you were never an FBI informant nor were you ever called upon to perform any service for the FBI.

AND WE HAVE A VERY EXPLICIT SWORN AFFIDAVIT FROM J. EDGAR HOVER ATTESTING THAT THE ACCUSED ASSASSIN OF THE PRESIDENT WAS NEVER AN FBI INFORMATNT EITHER, USING ALMOST EXACTLY THE SAME WORDS THATTHE LA FIELD OFFICER USED TO DESCRIBE HARRY. AND HARRY, SINCE YOU WERE UNDER THE AUSPICIES OF THE CHICAGO FBI FOR AWHILE, DO YOU THINK THEY WOULD KNOW MORE ABOUT YOU THAN LA FBI?

Furthermore, there is no record in either the JBS headquarters or Los Angeles field file re: any information provided by any informant over the period of time that you claim that you provided such information about the JBS.

INDEED, THE FBI DIDN'T NEED AN INFORMANT IN THE JBS BECAUSE THEY CONTROLLED THE ORGANIZATION FROM THE TOP DOWN, SO THEY WENT OUT OF THEIR WAY NOT TO BOTHER TO RECRUIT INFORMANTS, AND HARRY WAS ONLY DOING HIS CIVIC DUTY WHEN HE DISCOVERED THAT THERE WERE ELEMENTS IN THE JBS WHO WERE PLANNING ON KILLING JFK IN MEXICO CITY IN 1962. GOD BLESS YOU HARRY.

In addition, there is not even any reference in those files which reflects that the Bureau was seeking any specific information that could only be obtained through utilizing an informant. And there is no documentary evidence reflecting that the Los Angeles field office requested permission to use any informant inside the JBS nor any other evidence to support your statements.

WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO BELIEVING HARRY OR WHAT YOU FIND IN THE FBI FILES, I BELIEVE HARRY. I ALREADY HAVE DOZENS OF EXAMPLES OF FBI FILES BEING WRONG AND HARRY'S ALWAYS BEEN SQUARE WITH ME.

Typically, (in my experience) when informants surfaced or revealed their status, the Bureau had no problem responding to inquiries about them by providing basic information about their informant status--even when informants were making controversial statements which the Bureau thought were absurd or statements which embarrassed the Bureau.

For example, I previously quoted the standard Bureau reply concerning Julia Brown, a 9-year FBI informant.

AH YES, THE BLACK CHICK WHOSE NAME I COULDN'T RECALL, JULIA BROWN, WHO FOR NINE YEARS WAS PAID BY THE FBI TO BE A COMMIE RAT, AND WHEN SHE CAME CLEAN WENT OUT ON THE LECTURE CIRCUIT TO BADMOUTH MARTIN LUTHER KING - WHO SHE CALLED A COMMUNIST! GIVE ME FREAKIN' BREAK. I NOW BELIEVE THAT THERE WERE MORE COMMIE FBI INFORMANTS LIKE PHILBRICK, WHO EXPRESSED FOREKNOWLEDGE OF THE ASSASSINATION OF JFK, THAN THERE WERE LEGITIMATE COMMIES. LIKE THE KKK, I WANT TO KNOW IF SEN. BYRD, WHO CARRIED A COPY OF THE CONSTITUTION IN HIS WALLET, WAS HE AN FBI INFORMANT ON THE KKK LIKE GERALD FORD WAS ON THE WC?

Comparable statements were made regarding other informants such as Matt Cvetic, Karl Prussion, Lola Belle Holmes, Armand Penha, Gerald Kirk, and many other persons --

AND EVERYONE OF THEM IS A SCUMB WHO YOU WOULDN'T TRUST TO SIT DOWN AT DINNER WITH YOUR FAMILY, WHILE HARRY YOU CAN TRUST IS A GOOD MAN WHO RECOGNIZED HIS MISTAKES AND CAME CLEAN, SO HARRY IS NOT AT ALL LIKE ANY OF THE OFFICAL FBI INFORMANTS WHO ARE, UNLIKE HARRY, CRIMINAL INFORMANTS WHO GOT OFF.

even though the Bureau thought their post-FBI activities were opportunistic or that they wrongly sought to capitalize upon their FBI association by attributing to themselves expertise which they did not actually possess.

THE ONLY EXPERTISE THAT HARRY HAS IS THAT HE ACTED VERY SIMILAR TO LEE HARVEY OSWALD IN THE SUMMER LEADING UP TO THE ASSASSINATION, AND THEIR FILES, AND THEIR ASSOCIATIONS WITH THE FPCC AND GOVERNMENT INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES, ESPECIALLY THE FBI, ARE ALMOST IDENTICAL, INCLUDING THE LANGUAGE USED TO DENY THEIR ASSOCIATION WITH THE FBI, EXCEPT WE HAVE HARRY AS A WILLING, LIVING AND HONEST WITNESS, WHILE OSWALD WAS MURDERED WHILE IN POLICE CUSTODY.

So, in the absence of any verifiable factual evidence which corroborates your assertions regarding your alleged FBI "informant" status inside the JBS, there is no rational basis for believing them.

THERE IS NO RATIONAL BASIS FOR YOU, WHO BELIEVES THE FBI DENIALS AND THE CRIMINAL INFORMANTS AND INSTIGATORS. BUT DON'T SPEAK FOR ME OR THOSE WHO DO BELIEVE HARRY INSTEAD OF THE CROSS DRESSING QUEERS WHO WERE BLACKMAILED BY THE MOB AND ABDICATED THEIR RESPONSIBLITY TO THE CONSTITUTION BY FRAMING AND KILLING THE ACCUSED ASSASSIN INSTEAD OF PROPERLY INVESTIGATING THE MURDER OF THE PRESIDENT AND ARRESTING AND CONVICTING THOSE ACTUALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS MURDER.

If I ever see anything factual which changes this situation, I will be the first person to acknowledge its existence. Lastly, just for clarity, I apply this same standard to ANYBODY who claims to have been an FBI informant. If there is no verifiable evidence to support such an assertion, then there is no reason to believe it.

WELL ERNIE, WILL YOU PLEASE CHECK OUT THOSE WHO DON'T CLAIM TO BE AN FBI INFORMANT BUT WHO WE SUSPECT THEM TO BE, LIKE OSWALD, GERALD FORD AND SEN. BYRD?

THANKS ERNIE,

MAYBE YOU CAN BE OF SERVICE

BILL KELLY

Lazar, having read most of your posts, I ask where you fit in the following first

paragraph.

Here are some excerpts from the FOREWORD of my 1990 manuscript/book;

Resistance to this publication will be leveled mostly by my former fellow

members and associates in political, religious, Intelligence, and subversive

camps, also from their present-day allies and defenders...

As this presentation uncovers the victims, the damning intrigues, and secret

activities, rage and furious assaults will be felt that are designed to destroy

more than author credibility. From their "most effective weapons" irresistible

volleys will be aimed to blind the eye and mind of the reader to keep hidden the

'true identity" of the beast that they still serve.

When patriotism becomes their question, reference is made to my having answered

"the call" by serving low-level national security-intelligence. Working against

both foreign and domestic Communists, and the equally subversive "New Americanist"

scheme, as related in this writing.

hjay1211@gmail.com

Hey Bill

Re; withheld records:

Should we wonder if the agencies would release such seeing as they

did not do so, along with those they did make available, and could such request expect

results?

Even if I knew how to approach this it is almost certain I won't make the effort. However

I leave it to you if you choose this quest. Just let me know what info. is needed from

here?

Harry

Bill

What I refer to here/above is the case of Jefferson Morely

in his yet unsuccessful attempts to get hidden Joannides

and etc. documents from government agencies, even though

Morely has lit a fire under their feet.

[John Bevilaqua]

Ernie, you are absolutely correct that the FBI did not investigate groups like the JBS and White Citizen's Council (amazingly even when they had cause to).

Greg, you are wrong on two counts. The FBI did investigate the White Citizens Councils and, in fact, there is a SAC Letter (instructions to all Special Agents in Charge of field office) which explicitly instructs pertinent field offices how they should handle their investigations. I recently received the file on the Association of Citizens Councils of Mississippi (HQ 105-34237) which contains an 11-page memo that is devoted entirely to listing the investigative file numbers for every FBI file opened on a Citizens Council group -- alphabetically by state. So, obviously, your knowledge about this matter is not credible.

Second, every field office was required to adhere to specific protocols regarding use of informants. Those protocols were spelled out in mind-numbing detail in the FBI's Manual of Instructions. All of the files I have obtained of FBI informants make it very clear that field office SAC's (Special Agents in Charge) were aware of those protocols and followed them -- OR -- they received blistering letters from HQ Supervisors which addressed their shortcomings.

Ernie,

Curious if you have any info on Gordon Hall from Arlington, MA (now deceased) who donated about 250,000 docs to Brown Univ as part of the

Hall-Hoag Collection of Extremist Literature (or something close to that). Frank Donner exposed him in a couple of his books as an FBI undercover

informant. See: The Age of Surveillance. Gordon joined both COPA and many other orgs and really did not have the money to purchase all the

subscriptions which were part of his collection donated to Brown. When I first met Gordon he asked me why I was pursuing the JFK case and suggested

that I profile the Unabomber instead on the spot at Jimmy's Restaurant in Arlington, MA which I did. My profiling was spot on and I even told Gordon that each victim had some sort of common connection which turned out to be accurate. They all either lived on a street named after a tree, worked on a street named after a tree or worked with a company associated with a tree in the name. As I sensed that he worked for some sort of an

intel agency as the conversation continued I even told him that my profiling might be over 85% accurate but it was not enough to catch the thief and that he should encourage his friends to publish the manifesto on the grounds that someone would come forward after recognizing the writing style and statements made in the manifesto. And that was accurate as well. A few weeks later the manifesto was published and the jig was up. Hall debated

people like Robert Morris several times and conceded that the guy was powerful enough and connected enough to possibly be part of major murder plots like the JFK death but still insisted that Edwin A. Walker was a crackpot and a psycho and could not be trusted to keep his mouth shut. Later when Caller ID was just being installed in New England he freaked out whenever he called me at work and I answered the phone with his accent: "Why hello Gordon. How is it going?" He actually blustered and flubbered that he was going to report me to the authorities, right after Grace Hoag called me from his house and heard the same treatment. Imagine him reporting me to the FBI only to have them tell him that this new fangled Caller ID thingy

was perfectly legal? Funny as all get out. Even Billy James Hargis hated Gordon Hall for penetrating his organization. Both the Far Right and the Far Left hated him for being a devious little snitch and a talented xxxx. He was once nominated to be President of the American Nazi Party he was so good in his chameleon acts that he pulled off so well. Or maybe this time it was not an act either.

[John Bevilaqua]

After reading Harry Dean's summary of his suspects list which apparently includes the likes of Senator James O. Eastland of Mississippi, Julien Sourwine, Maj Gen Edwin A. Walker and Ezra Taft Benson I can state unequivocally that these conclusions demonstrate "true insider knowledge" of the actualy identity of the JFK murder perps and those who "created the Oswald legend" between 1960 and 1963 and then continued to smear and slander Oswald long after his death including Rev Gerald L K Smith, Billy James Hargis, Medford B. Evans of the JBS and Dr. Revilo Oliver a JBS founder.

Even Otto F. Otepka, head of the State Dept Passport Security office helped to build the Oswald legend using his defector file, and most likely told Prof. Spas T. Raikin what boat the Oswalds would be on and where and when to meet them on the docks of Hoboken, NJ. Ever think of that?

Congrats, Harry, on a nice little document and for having the courage to document for future generations the roles of your, now confirmed, usual suspects. Otepka knew that Oswald had been trained in both the Far East and in Minsk as a programmed assassin and that his inclusion as the perfect patsy would guarantee, using blackmail, an unwilling and unwitting cover-up on the part of every U.S. Gov Agency who ever touched Oswald.

Sourwine, Otepka, Morris and Raikin were as thick as thieves and talked with each other often. And who re-hired Otepka in 1968 after he had been canned by Dean Rusk and Dean Acheson over the Walt Rostow hearings involving leaking of confidential documents to SISS? Trick Dick Nixon is who.

Quite franky, I could not have designed the whole Oswald legend and patsy operation any better than that. Could you? Course not. Eastland even sent Oswald on the Klein's Sporting Goods Manlicher Carcano episode and the Clinton, LA Voter Registration drive ruse to set him up later as a Communist and a Negro civil rights and voting rights sympathizer. Boy, those guys were good.

[William Kelly]

I'd like to hear what Harry has to say about the two threads going on Larry Howard and Hall.

I know you used to pal around with those guys Harry,

BK

[John Bevilaqua]

Ernie, you are absolutely correct that the FBI did not investigate groups like the JBS and White Citizen's Council (amazingly even when they had cause to).

Greg, you are wrong on two counts. The FBI did investigate the White Citizens Councils and, in fact, there is a SAC Letter (instructions to all Special Agents in Charge of field office) which explicitly instructs pertinent field offices how they should handle their investigations. I recently received the file on the Association of Citizens Councils of Mississippi (HQ 105-34237) which contains an 11-page memo that is devoted entirely to listing the investigative file numbers for every FBI file opened on a Citizens Council group -- alphabetically by state. So, obviously, your knowledge about this matter is not credible.

Second, every field office was required to adhere to specific protocols regarding use of informants. Those protocols were spelled out in mind-numbing detail in the FBI's Manual of Instructions. All of the files I have obtained of FBI informants make it very clear that field office SAC's (Special Agents in Charge) were aware of those protocols and followed them -- OR -- they received blistering letters from HQ Supervisors which addressed their shortcomings.

Ernie,

Curious if you have any info on Gordon Hall from Arlington, MA (now deceased) who donated about 250,000 docs to Brown Univ as part of the

Hall-Hoag Collection of Extremist Literature (or something close to that). Frank Donner exposed him in a couple of his books as an FBI undercover

informant. See: The Age of Surveillance. Gordon joined both COPA and many other orgs and really did not have the money to purchase all the

subscriptions which were part of his collection donated to Brown. When I first met Gordon he asked me why I was pursuing the JFK case and suggested

that I profile the Unabomber instead on the spot at Jimmy's Restaurant in Arlington, MA which I did. My profiling was spot on and I even told Gordon that each victim had some sort of common connection which turned out to be accurate. They all either lived on a street named after a tree, worked on a street named after a tree or worked with a company associated with a tree in the name. As I sensed that he worked for some sort of an

intel agency as the conversation continued I even told him that my profiling might be over 85% accurate but it was not enough to catch the thief and that he should encourage his friends to publish the manifesto on the grounds that someone would come forward after recognizing the writing style and statements made in the manifesto. And that was accurate as well. A few weeks later the manifesto was published and the jig was up. Hall debated

people like Robert Morris several times and conceded that the guy was powerful enough and connected enough to possibly be part of major murder plots like the JFK death but still insisted that Edwin A. Walker was a crackpot and a psycho and could not be trusted to keep his mouth shut. Later when Caller ID was just being installed in New England he freaked out whenever he called me at work and I answered the phone with his accent: "Why hello Gordon. How is it going?" He actually blustered and flubbered that he was going to report me to the authorities, right after Grace Hoag called me from his house and heard the same treatment. Imagine him reporting me to the FBI only to have them tell him that this new fangled Caller ID thingy

was perfectly legal? Funny as all get out. Even Billy James Hargis hated Gordon Hall for penetrating his organization. Both the Far Right and the Far Left hated him for being a devious little snitch and a talented xxxx. He was once nominated to be President of the American Nazi Party he was so good in his chameleon acts that he pulled off so well. Or maybe this time it was not an act either.

And while we are on the topic of devious little snitches let us not forget that other COPA penetrator and ex-McCarthyite, Sarah McClendon, former White House correspondent from a little tumbleweed town in Texas. She curried favor with a beat writer from a liberal New York magazine and they both tried to get info from me about how I learned so much about Willoughby her associate from the Anti-Communist Liaison, Committee of Correspondence whose leadership was a Who's Who of the JFK conundrum. (Bonner Fellers, Edward Hunter, Charles Willoughby, Sarah McClendon and Alex Rorke, etc.) Talk about Spy vs. Spy! And how about that guy "Kenneth" Smith (GLK Smith's grandson) from the 1994 ASK Conference whose ARRB testimony was expunged for being so preposterous and audacious. John Newman and his associate interviewed him for 2 hours before they figured out what his game was and finally dismissed him as a fraud. And Gordon Hall tried the same thing on me as well. He focused mostly on convincing me that there was NO CONSPIRACY at all. Who did he use as a reference? That CIA author from Cambridge who got involved with Marina Oswald. Forgot her name. He wanted to hook me up with her since she knew so much more about the whole JFK thing. Imagine that nice little old ladies and old men too, would continue to carve out a space as professional snitches, back stabbers and liars, all under the guise of crime fighting? Turns my stomach. And several of them penetrated COPA and ASK just trying to figure out how close we were getting to the answers. Kram Diaz and Grodie Whineslow prominent among them in the current generation.

[John Bevilaqua]

After reading Harry Dean's summary of his suspects list which apparently includes the likes of Senator James O. Eastland of Mississippi, Julien Sourwine, Maj Gen Edwin A. Walker and Ezra Taft Benson I can state unequivocally that these conclusions demonstrate "true insider knowledge" of the actualy identity of the JFK murder perps and those who "created the Oswald legend" between 1960 and 1963 and then continued to smear and slander Oswald long after his death including Rev Gerald L K Smith, Billy James Hargis, Medford B. Evans of the JBS and Dr. Revilo Oliver a JBS founder.

Even Otto F. Otepka, head of the State Dept Passport Security office helped to build the Oswald legend using his defector file, and most likely told Prof. Spas T. Raikin what boat the Oswalds would be on and where and when to meet them on the docks of Hoboken, NJ. Ever think of that?

Congrats, Harry, on a nice little document and for having the courage to document for future generations the roles of your, now confirmed, usual suspects. Otepka knew that Oswald had been trained in both the Far East and in Minsk as a programmed assassin and that his inclusion as the perfect patsy would guarantee, using blackmail, an unwilling and unwitting cover-up on the part of every U.S. Gov Agency who ever touched Oswald.

Sourwine, Otepka, Morris and Raikin were as thick as thieves and talked with each other often. And who re-hired Otepka in 1968 after he had been canned by Dean Rusk and Dean Acheson over the Walt Rostow hearings involving leaking of confidential documents to SISS? Trick Dick Nixon is who.

Quite franky, I could not have designed the whole Oswald legend and patsy operation any better than that. Could you? Course not. Eastland even sent Oswald on the Klein's Sporting Goods Manlicher Carcano episode and the Clinton, LA Voter Registration drive ruse to set him up later as a Communist and a Negro civil rights and voting rights sympathizer. Boy, those guys were good.

Looks like Wickliffe Draper's cronies like Pedro del Valle and Charles Willoughby and their roles in decades of violence against humanity are getting further traction on the web.

And John Rousselot, the California Bircher and one of Harry J. Dean's suspects in the JFK conundrum are getting more press as well on Alex Constantine's site and even in the Korean

press. People like Sarah McClendon from COPA and her close associates there plus her supporters here, including some of the newer moderators, have managed to gloss over the roles of these people in the JFK murder for decades preferring instead to implicate their own list of McCarthyism's standard scapegoated targets. Once you understand the role of the Anti-Communist Liaison, Committee of Correspondence with its coterie of ex-McCarthyites, Draperites, Birchers and ex-MacArthurites you will finally understand who killed JFK and why. Until then you are still being brainwashed by the people who invented the term and the tactics: Edward Hunter, the Henry Regnery Press and the anti-Democratic forces of McCarthyism, MacArthurism and McClendonism.

Saturday, July 4, 2009

James von Brunn, Pedro del Valle and the Fraternity of Fascists who Murdered John Fitzgerald Kennedy

Edited by Alex Constantine

James Von Brunn & Pedro del Valle

By Jose de la Isla

Korea Times

June 18, 2009

Excerpt: Early Influences on James Von Brunn

... James Von Brunn, born in 1920, is said to have been associated with rightwing white supremacists. It's known that in 1964, former Marine Corps Lt. Gen. Pedro Del Valle gave Von Brunn a copy of The Iron Curtain over America, by John Beaty, of which Von Brunn said, "For the first time, I learned how Jews had destroyed Europe and were now destroying America."

The Iron Curtain over America (1951) was called by the Anti-Defamation League of B'Nai B'Rith one of the most anti-Semitic books ever written in the United States.

In it, Beaty claimed Eastern European Jews, such as Supreme Court Justice Felix Frankfurter and Samuel Rosenman, President Franklin Roosevelt's speechwriter, were part of that conspiracy. The book also gave intellectual currency to some of the anti-communist outrages that Sen. Joseph McCarthy was associated with.

Del Valle recommended Von Brunn to a position with rightwing book publisher Noontide Press, whose founder Willis Carto was a Holocaust denier, and who formed Liberty Lobby that aspired to have public policy influence.

American Nazi "Patriot" Lt. Gen. Pedro del Valle, an ITT vice president involved in the Chile coup and installation of Pinochet, also mentor to Holocaust Museum killer James von Brunn

Del Valle had a distinguished military career in both world wars and was the first Hispanic to reach the rank of lieutenant general. In 1946 he was considered by President Truman as a possible governor of Puerto Rico, when the post was an appointive one.

Del Valle retired from the military in 1948. In 1953, he and four other high-level former military officers formed the Defenders of the American Constitution, intent on purging the United States of supposed communist influences and they organized citizen-vigilantes to guard against sabotage and treason.

Del Valle ran for governor of Maryland in 1953 but was badly defeated in the Republican primary because of his controversial views. ...

********

Pedro Del Valle and the Men who Killed Kennedy

Of the "Anti-Communist Liaison" involved the assassination in Dallas on November 22, 1963, Charles Willoughby (the alias for German-born Kurt Weidenbach, MacArthur's chief of military intelligence) was the highest placed. Willoughby/Weidenbach did much of the planning, and moved personnel about with strategic military precision, leaving a number of false, self-incriminating trails for reporters and the FBI to follow after President Kennedy was dead, including Mafia figures and lower echelon intelligence assets, eg. Lee Oswald. James von Brunn's friend Pedro del Valle, a vice president at ITT, went on to be instrumental in the overthrow of Salvador Allende and the establishment of a military dictatorship in Chile. - AC

(1) Dick Russell, The Man Who Knew Too Much (1992)

... A White House memorandum prepared for JFK in mid-August 1963 estimated that the radical right spent as much as $25 million annually, supported by about 70 foundations, 113 corporations, 25 utility companies, and 250 identifiable individuals.

In the thick of it all, and much more, was Charles Willoughby. While his mentor, General MacArthur, passed into quiet retirement and was occasionally sought by Kennedy for advice, Willoughby approached his seventieth birthday with samurai swords placed strategically next to his desk. Willoughby's holy war against the "Red Menace" found him sitting on the boards of most of the major conservative groups, and reaching into Europe and Latin America to start his own International Committee for the Defense of Christian Culture...

Kurt Weidenbach, aka Charles Willoughby, chief of General MacArthur's military intelligence staff in Korea, and something of a chess master at political assassination strategies

Willoughby's publisher and friend Billy James Hargis was a short, portly, double-chinned fellow in his midthirties who gained much of his financial support from H. L. Hunt and other wealthy oilmen. Along with Willoughby, who was his Washington eyes and ears, another of Hargis's advisory committee members was retired lieutenant general Pedro del Valle, US Marine commander in the Pacific Theater during World War II. After the Korean War, del Valle had become vice president of ITT's Latin American operations.

In September 1961 Hargis announced that a secret fraternity to coordinate right-wing activities would soon be formed. Then, on March 21,1962, a carefully selected group was called together in Washington. No press representatives were allowed at the founding session of the Anti-Communist Liaison, which brought together about one hundred delegates representing some seventy-five right-wing groups at the Washington Hotel. Named as its chairman and operating head was Edward Hunter, a National Advisory Board member of Young Americans for Freedom.

John Rousselot - Spartacus Bio: "In 1975 Harry Dean claimed he had been an undercover agent for the Federal Bureau of Investigation. In 1962 he infiltrated the John Birch Society. He later reported that Rousselot and General Edwin Walker had hired two gunman, Eladio del Valle and Loran Hall, to kill President John F. Kennedy. However, Dean was unable to provide any evidence to back up his claim. After being defeated in 1982 Ronald Reagan appointed him President of the National Council of Savings Institutions (1985-88)."

The new group's insider was US representative John Rousselot, a John Birch Society spokesman and Christian Crusade board member from Los Angeles. It also had a Southern California "outsider," Colonel William P. Gale, yet another ex-MacArthur man. In 1962, as California state chairman of the Constitution Party, Colonel Gale announced his candidacy for the governorship on a platform calling for the abolition of all income taxes. He also organized, soon after the pivotal springtime meeting in Washington, a paramilitary outfit. ...

Posted by Alex Constantine at 6:53 PM

[William Kelly]

Question for Ernie Lazar:

Ernie, what happened when the KKK hung a black guy from a tree and there were FBI informants among the murderers?

Thanks,

Bill Kelly