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Greg Parker
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Oswald's alleged use of Germanic names:

Let's look at each:

"DF Drittal" vouched for the good character of "AJ Hidell" on the order form for the pistol.

"Drittal" is likely a slight variation on the German, word "drittel" meaning "third". DF could be a reference to David Ferrie. In this context, it would mean to indicate David Ferrie is a "third party". However, my guess is that the "DF" stands for "deinst fur". Thus, the full "message" would be "deinst fur drittel" which translates as "on behalf of a third person/party".

I have looked all over the web, and in every phone book I can find. I have yet to find anyone with the name Drittal. If Oswald, or indeed anyone, was to make up a name to use for a character reference, surely it would be RECOGNISABLE as a name... eg Smith, Jones, Williams, Johnson, Goldblum, Schweitzer, Schwarzenegger... not a name that noone in the entire world has. Under these circumstances, the similarity to the German word "drittel" and its meaning cannot be ignored as mere coincidence.

"Gut Schieffer" was the signature on Oswald's draft card. It translates as "good mariner".

"Good Hoffen" was a signature on a Hidell draft card. "Hoffen" = luck.

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Oswald's alleged use of Germanic names:

Let's look at each:

"DF Drittal" vouched for the good character of "AJ Hidell" on the order form for the pistol.

"Drittal" is likely a slight variation on the German, word "drittel" meaning "third". DF could be a reference to David Ferrie. In this context, it would mean to indicate David Ferrie is a "third party". However, my guess is that the "DF" stands for "deinst fur". Thus, the full "message" would be "deinst fur drittel" which translates as "on behalf of a third person/party".

I have looked all over the web, and in every phone book I can find. I have yet to find anyone with the name Drittal. If Oswald, or indeed anyone, was to make up a name to use for a character reference, surely it would be RECOGNISABLE as a name... eg Smith, Jones, Williams, Johnson, Goldblum, Schweitzer, Schwarzenegger... not a name that noone in the entire world has. Under these circumstances, the similarity to the German word "drittel" and its meaning cannot be ignored as mere coincidence.

"Gut Schieffer" was the signature on Oswald's draft card. It translates as "good mariner".

"Good Hoffen" was a signature on a Hidell draft card. "Hoffen" = luck.

Greg, maybe "Gut Schieffer" actually was meant to be "Gut Schiesser" = roughly good shot. Grammattically it should have been Guter Schiesser. Sometimes the letter f and the letter s can be mixed up...

Just a thought.

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Oswald's alleged use of Germanic names:

Greg, maybe "Gut Schieffer" actually was meant to be "Gut Schiesser" = roughly good shot. Grammattically it should have been Guter Schiesser. Sometimes the letter f and the letter s can be mixed up...

Just a thought.

Thanks, Antti.

You may be right... but I think the further you get away from the actual spelling, the more speculative it becomes...

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  • 3 years later...
Oswald's alleged use of Germanic names:

Let's look at each:

"DF Drittal" vouched for the good character of "AJ Hidell" on the order form for the pistol.

"Drittal" is likely a slight variation on the German, word "drittel" meaning "third". DF could be a reference to David Ferrie. In this context, it would mean to indicate David Ferrie is a "third party". However, my guess is that the "DF" stands for "deinst fur". Thus, the full "message" would be "deinst fur drittel" which translates as "on behalf of a third person/party".

I have looked all over the web, and in every phone book I can find. I have yet to find anyone with the name Drittal. If Oswald, or indeed anyone, was to make up a name to use for a character reference, surely it would be RECOGNISABLE as a name... eg Smith, Jones, Williams, Johnson, Goldblum, Schweitzer, Schwarzenegger... not a name that noone in the entire world has. Under these circumstances, the similarity to the German word "drittel" and its meaning cannot be ignored as mere coincidence.

"Gut Schieffer" was the signature on Oswald's draft card. It translates as "good mariner".

"Good Hoffen" was a signature on a Hidell draft card. "Hoffen" = luck.

Greg,

I just happened to pick up Mark Fuhrman's A Simple Act of Murder, looking for anything new, and came across the reference to "DJ Drittal," (Sic DF Drittal) as a "fictious" person (p. 69), which LHO is said to have used as the name of a witness to his citizenship and lack of felony conviction on the form used to purchase the pistol used to kill J D Tippit.

I too was struck by the Drittal name, and its apparent Germanic origins.

Oswald had used the name Hidell, and there was a Hidell in his USMC unit who did live in New Orleans at the time, and Lt. J. Evans on a fake draft card, which was also said to have been a "fictious" person, when in fact Oswald did know a Julian Evans, both before and after he went to USSR. Julian's wife Myrtle helped Oswald find the Magazine Street apartment.

In any case, I was wondering, if there really was a Hidell and an Evans, there might be a Drittal too, though you say you looked pretty hard and couldn't find any?

There must be more to it.

BK

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Oswald's alleged use of Germanic names:

Let's look at each:

"DF Drittal" vouched for the good character of "AJ Hidell" on the order form for the pistol.

"Drittal" is likely a slight variation on the German, word "drittel" meaning "third". DF could be a reference to David Ferrie. In this context, it would mean to indicate David Ferrie is a "third party". However, my guess is that the "DF" stands for "deinst fur". Thus, the full "message" would be "deinst fur drittel" which translates as "on behalf of a third person/party".

I have looked all over the web, and in every phone book I can find. I have yet to find anyone with the name Drittal. If Oswald, or indeed anyone, was to make up a name to use for a character reference, surely it would be RECOGNISABLE as a name... eg Smith, Jones, Williams, Johnson, Goldblum, Schweitzer, Schwarzenegger... not a name that noone in the entire world has. Under these circumstances, the similarity to the German word "drittel" and its meaning cannot be ignored as mere coincidence.

"Gut Schieffer" was the signature on Oswald's draft card. It translates as "good mariner".

"Good Hoffen" was a signature on a Hidell draft card. "Hoffen" = luck.

Greg,

I just happened to pick up Mark Fuhrman's A Simple Act of Murder, looking for anything new, and came across the reference to "DJ Drittal," (Sic DF Drittal) as a "fictious" person (p. 69), which LHO is said to have used as the name of a witness to his citizenship and lack of felony conviction on the form used to purchase the pistol used to kill J D Tippit.

I too was struck by the Drittal name, and its apparent Germanic origins.

Oswald had used the name Hidell, and there was a Hidell in his USMC unit who did live in New Orleans at the time, and Lt. J. Evans on a fake draft card, which was also said to have been a "fictious" person, when in fact Oswald did know a Julian Evans, both before and after he went to USSR. Julian's wife Myrtle helped Oswald find the Magazine Street apartment.

In any case, I was wondering, if there really was a Hidell and an Evans, there might be a Drittal too, though you say you looked pretty hard and couldn't find any?

There must be more to it.

BK

_____________________________________

Reminds me of Bob Dylan's character's name in the film Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid. ("Alias")

_____________________________________

Edited by Thomas Graves
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Oswald's alleged use of Germanic names:

Let's look at each:

"DF Drittal" vouched for the good character of "AJ Hidell" on the order form for the pistol.

"Drittal" is likely a slight variation on the German, word "drittel" meaning "third". DF could be a reference to David Ferrie. In this context, it would mean to indicate David Ferrie is a "third party". However, my guess is that the "DF" stands for "deinst fur". Thus, the full "message" would be "deinst fur drittel" which translates as "on behalf of a third person/party".

I have looked all over the web, and in every phone book I can find. I have yet to find anyone with the name Drittal. If Oswald, or indeed anyone, was to make up a name to use for a character reference, surely it would be RECOGNISABLE as a name... eg Smith, Jones, Williams, Johnson, Goldblum, Schweitzer, Schwarzenegger... not a name that noone in the entire world has. Under these circumstances, the similarity to the German word "drittel" and its meaning cannot be ignored as mere coincidence.

"Gut Schieffer" was the signature on Oswald's draft card. It translates as "good mariner".

"Good Hoffen" was a signature on a Hidell draft card. "Hoffen" = luck.

Greg,

I just happened to pick up Mark Fuhrman's A Simple Act of Murder, looking for anything new, and came across the reference to "DJ Drittal," (Sic DF Drittal) as a "fictious" person (p. 69), which LHO is said to have used as the name of a witness to his citizenship and lack of felony conviction on the form used to purchase the pistol used to kill J D Tippit.

I too was struck by the Drittal name, and its apparent Germanic origins.

Oswald had used the name Hidell, and there was a Hidell in his USMC unit who did live in New Orleans at the time, and Lt. J. Evans on a fake draft card, which was also said to have been a "fictious" person, when in fact Oswald did know a Julian Evans, both before and after he went to USSR. Julian's wife Myrtle helped Oswald find the Magazine Street apartment.

In any case, I was wondering, if there really was a Hidell and an Evans, there might be a Drittal too, though you say you looked pretty hard and couldn't find any?

There must be more to it.

BK

Bill, the USMC had a John Rene Heindel not a Alec James Hidell (though supposedly JRH's nickname was Hidell).

You can check any white pages book you want. I checked a number of them in 3 or 4 countries and could not find a single person with the name "Drittal". What are the odds then that he made the name up out of whole cloth not realizing it is one letter off being the German word for "a third"? What are the odds that the initials he chose just happen to be the first letters of the German words "dienst fur" and that when these words combine with Dritte or Drittel, it translates as "on behalf of a third party"?

Needless to say, I think you're right to be struck by the apparent German origin.

I do however, acknowledge that there are those who are skeptical of this interpretation.

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Greg,

Needless to say, I think you're right to be struck by the apparent German origin.

I once questioned whether Oswald knew German too.

Did Oswald know German too?"

Or was he trying to learn German?In the Dallas Police Archives, Box 9, Folder# 5, Item# 20, http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box9.htmthere is a property clerk's invoice for property seized from 1026 N. Beckley on November 23rd. In gif# 1, there is a listing for a package of Russian flash cards. Underneath that is a listing for 1 package of German phrase - sentence flash cards.Pretty smart person I would think - to learn two foreign languages.Steve Thomas

From the affidavit of Billy Joe Lord, Oswald's cabinmate on the trip aboard the S.S. Marion Lykes

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/lord.htm

10. Oswald spent a great deal of his time during the trip on the deck. I do not recall him doing any reading. I do recall, however, that there was a radio speaker which received programs from Europe and that Oswald and Colonel Church seemed to understand a little bit of the foreign language that came over on the speaker. I thought it was German, but I am not sure.

Col. Church was a retired U.S. Army Colonel. He and his wife were the other two passengers aboard the Marion Lykes.

Anyone know Col. Church's background?

From the WC testimony of Nelson Delgado, who was stationed with LHO in Santa Ana:

Mr. DELGADO - Well, like I say, he tried to teach me Russian, but then another time I had some thought that what he was speaking to me was German; but according to the agent, he messed me all up, and I couldn't figure whether it was Hebrew or German. I tried to tell him that some of the words he had mentioned to me at the time I didn't recognize them, but when I came back from Germany some of those words I do remember, you know.

Mr. LIEBELER - It seemed to you like it was German?

Mr. DELGADO - Like German; yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - But you only came to that conclusion after you had been to Germany?

Mr. DELGADO - Right. At the time it could have been Yiddish or German, you know.

Mr. LIEBELER - Could it have been Russian?

Mr. DELGADO - No; different gutteral sounds altogether.

Mr. LIEBELER - But you did not know whether Oswald spoke this other language to any extent; he just used a few words?

Mr. DELGADO - No; I just remember his particular language, which I am in doubt about, had a "ch" gutteral sound to it , you know; and I could only assume it was Jewish or German, and later on when I was in Germany, I think, I am pretty sure it was German that he was speaking.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did he speak it well or did he just use a few words?

Mr. DELGADO - He speaks it like I speak it now, you know, like, just phrases, you know. Where he picked them up, I don't know.

From Gary Buell’s blog July, 2005

http://coverthistory.blogspot.com/2005_07_...ry_archive.html

"Such was not the case however, in the affidavit supplied by Dennis Call who had been stationed at Santa Ana with Oswald. Call related in his statement how, "On one occasion, Oswald remarked to me that he had been awarded a scholarship to Albert Schweitzer University and that he planned to attend, remarking that they taught English [Call likely meant 'German'] at Schweitzer." Was this perhaps, Lee's way of saying he had assistance of a type which couldn't be openly stated?

Another of his Santa Ana Marine acquaintances, Henry Rousell Jr, recalled that prior to studying Russian, Oswald had studied German. Although Germany was on his itinerary, the main language of Switzerland is also German. Proof Rousell's memory was accurate is found among Oswald's notes which show a clear, though perhaps rudimentary, effort to teach himself this language."

Steve Thomas

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