John Simkin Posted July 3, 2010 Share Posted July 3, 2010 Malcolm Blunt has sent me two recently declassified documents on the disposal of JFK's coffin. The first document is a transcript of a telephone conversation that took place on 3rd February, 1966, at 6.10 pm between Robert Kennedy and a man named Knott: Senator Robert Kennedy called: Kennedy: I talked over there about what we are going to do with the casket that President Kennedy came back in. I have talked to Secretary McNamara about getting rid of that so he has made some arrangements. He is not able to get release of the casket. Wanted to see if we can get that released. Knott: My concern, and I have not talked to the Secretary, but with his man Steadman, is the man who is at Dartmouth now (Manchester) and spent some time in National Archives and like so many of us, while writing the story, was quite outraged about this aspect and he had planned in the biography that he is writing, which I understand will be released in 1968, to include a chapter dealing with this particular subject. If this is so, I think it is going to raise loads of questions about the release of the casket. Kennedy: In what way? Knott: As to how it was disposed of. More than that, the Attorney General had a letter from Congress Cabell urging that it be disposed of and related it to an Act of Congress passed last year that dealt with the rifle, tagging it as Government property. Kennedy: I don't think it was pertinent at all to this case. Knott: The Attorney General has asked that we do nothing without clearing with him. I am held up by the Attorney General and until I could talk with you and you could explore the possibility in 1968. Kennedy: Hope that won't be published in 1968 - I don't know why we need this around at this time. _` Knott: I think it ought to be disposed of. I think I was one of the first to discuss the possibility of disposing of it. On the other hand, if, in 1968, someone is going to be publishing things that will raise the question Kennedy: What question? Knott: The question of authority to release and dispose of it. Kennedy: I think it belongs to the family and we can get rid of it in any way we want to. Knott: I don't want to appear negative - just want to be sure we are clear and that we do this when the timing is right. Kennedy: I have talked to Secretary McNamara. What I would like to have done is take it to sea. Could you call him and make the arrangements with Secretary McNamara? Knott: I am held up at this point in time for clearance from the Attorney General. Kennedy: Why don't we go ahead - I will have Katzenbach call you. I don't know what this has to do with this matter even if he has a chapter on it (Manchester). Knott: It is a disposal of Government property in one sense, although I took the position we were paying for services. Kennedy: I don't think anybody will be upset about the fact that we disposed of it - I will take the responsibility for that and I will call Mr. Katzenbach and have him call you. Knott: If there is no problem in your mind - Kennedy: Will you call Secretary McNamara after you hear from Katzenbach? Knott: Yes I will and we will make the arrangements from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Simkin Posted July 3, 2010 Author Share Posted July 3, 2010 The second document is signed by John M. Steadman and is dated 25th February, 1966: This memo is to advise concerning the disposition of the casket used to transport the body of President John F. Kennedy from Dallas, Texas to Washington, D. C. on the day of the assassination. As instructed, the casket was disposed of at sea in a quiet, sure and dignified manner by an air drop into approximately 1500 fathoms (9000 feet) of water at 38° 30' N. latitude and 72° 06' W, longitude at 10:00 a, m. Eastern Standard Time, Friday, February 18, 1966. A summary follows. Additional written statements are in the possession of the Archivist of the United States. The casket in question came into the possession of the United States by delivery from Joseph Gawler's Sons Inc., the funeral directors responsible for the burial preparations of President Kennedy. The casket was reddish brown in color with a brushed satin polish and plain in appearance. The single lid was curved both at the sides and the ends, and was closed with two bolt clasps. Long fluted handles about an inch and one-half in diameter ran along both sides, with one of the handles slightly damaged by being bent at one end. The casket was received from Gawler's at the National Archives Building, Pennsylvania Avenue and 8th Street, N. W. , on March 19, 1964, and stored at all times thereafter in a specially secure vault in the basement of the National Archives building. There the casket was accessible only to three top officials of the National Archives: the Archivist, the Assistant Archivist for Presidential Libraries, and the Administrative Officer of the National Archives. The casket was kept in a dull blue wooden box of one-inch pine covered with brown wrapping paper. The only outsider permitted access to the casket was William Manchester, the historian commissioned by the Kennedy family. This area where the casket was kept is where some of the other Kennedy memorabilia eventually destined for the Kennedy Library are also stored. By letter dated February 11, 1966, the Attorney General of the United States rendered his opinion that the reasons for disposing of the casket completely outweighed the reasons, if any, that might exist for preserving it. Careful consideration was given to various means of disposition which would be at one and the same time sure, quiet, dignified, respectful and appropriate, and it was concluded that these aims would best be met by an airdrop at sea. A major concern in the planning of the airdrop was that the casket would fail to sink, particularly if it should shatter apart upon impact, which was considered a serious likelihood. Commander Carlisle A. H. Trost, a submarine officer with special training in hydraulics, went to the National Archives to inspect the casket and advise on the preparations for the drop. Following his recommendations, the casket was opened and three eighty-pound bags of sand were placed inside. The casket was then shut and bound with metal banding tape and replaced in the pine box, which was in turn bound with metal banding tape. Numerous holes were drilled in both the casket and the box to insure that no air pockets would develop. The total weight was some 660 pounds and the dimensions were 7' 2 1/2" long, 31 1/2" wide and 27 1/2" high. Pickup was made at the National Archives building by Colonel Wm. A. Knowlton, USA, in an Air Force van with a closed back, driven by S/Sgt Ray R, Stilwell, AF 15436320, of the 93d Air Terminal Squadron. Delivery was received from Walter Robertson, Jr., Administrative Officer of the National Archives, and Lewis M. Robeson, Chief of the National Archives Handling Branch. The van proceeded directly to Andrews Air Force Base, and the load was placed aboard a waiting C-130E aircraft (No. 54960) from the 61st Troop Carrier Squadron. The aircraft was commanded by Major Leo W. Tubayr-USAF, FR 42561, and co-piloted by Captain Frederick E. Clark, USAF, FV 3066163. The senior loadmaster was S/Sgt Thomas E. Eagle, AF 13478093, who supervised the loading and the rigging of the load with two air¬drop parachutes. The parachutes were to break the shock of impact upon hitting the water from 500 feet, the scheduled altitude for the drop. The weather was clear, with excellent visibility, and the ocean calm. The selected point for the airdrop was as indicated on the first map attached hereto. This area was selected because it is away from regularly traveled air and shipping lines, is well out from the edge of the continental shelf with a depth of some 1500 fathoms, and would not be subject to trawling or other sea-bottom activity. Take off was at 8:38 a, m. Aboard in addition to the regular crew was Colonel B. R. Daughtrey, Executive Assistant to the Secretary of the Air Force, who had made arrangements for the aircraft, and the undersigned. The aircraft proceeded southeast and northeast along the route shown on the second map attached hereto to the drop point, where the aircraft made a thorough search to determine that no vessels were in sight. The aircraft then descended to 500 feet, opened the tail hatch and prepared for the drop. At 10:00 a, m. EST, the rigged load was pushed from the plane through the tail hatch, the parachutes opened shortly before impact, and the entire rigged load remained intact and sank sharply, clearly and immediately after the soft impact. Only one small plywood skipboard, on which the load rested during the ejection process, broke away. Included among the witnesses were Colonel Daughtrey, the two loadmasters (S /Sgt Eagle and AIC Michael E. Kelly, AF 13719923), and the undersigned. The aircraft circled the drop point for some 20 minutes at 500 feet altitude to ensure that nothing returned to the surface. The aircraft then proceeded directly back to Andrews Air Force Base, landing at 11:30 a.m. The undersigned promptly informed Dr. Robert H. Bahmer, the Archivist of the United States, and Harold F. Reis, Executive Assistant to the Attorney General, (the designated contact points in GSA and Justice respectively) of the accomplishment of the requested mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Howard Posted July 3, 2010 Share Posted July 3, 2010 The second document is signed by John M. Steadman and is dated 25th February, 1966: This memo is to advise concerning the disposition of the casket used to transport the body of President John F. Kennedy from Dallas, Texas to Washington, D. C. on the day of the assassination. As instructed, the casket was disposed of at sea in a quiet, sure and dignified manner by an air drop into approximately 1500 fathoms (9000 feet) of water at 38° 30' N. latitude and 72° 06' W, longitude at 10:00 a, m. Eastern Standard Time, Friday, February 18, 1966. A summary follows. Additional written statements are in the possession of the Archivist of the United States. The casket in question came into the possession of the United States by delivery from Joseph Gawler's Sons Inc., the funeral directors responsible for the burial preparations of President Kennedy. The casket was reddish brown in color with a brushed satin polish and plain in appearance. The single lid was curved both at the sides and the ends, and was closed with two bolt clasps. Long fluted handles about an inch and one-half in diameter ran along both sides, with one of the handles slightly damaged by being bent at one end. The casket was received from Gawler's at the National Archives Building, Pennsylvania Avenue and 8th Street, N. W. , on March 19, 1964, and stored at all times thereafter in a specially secure vault in the basement of the National Archives building. There the casket was accessible only to three top officials of the National Archives: the Archivist, the Assistant Archivist for Presidential Libraries, and the Administrative Officer of the National Archives. The casket was kept in a dull blue wooden box of one-inch pine covered with brown wrapping paper. The only outsider permitted access to the casket was William Manchester, the historian commissioned by the Kennedy family. This area where the casket was kept is where some of the other Kennedy memorabilia eventually destined for the Kennedy Library are also stored. By letter dated February 11, 1966, the Attorney General of the United States rendered his opinion that the reasons for disposing of the casket completely outweighed the reasons, if any, that might exist for preserving it. Careful consideration was given to various means of disposition which would be at one and the same time sure, quiet, dignified, respectful and appropriate, and it was concluded that these aims would best be met by an airdrop at sea. A major concern in the planning of the airdrop was that the casket would fail to sink, particularly if it should shatter apart upon impact, which was considered a serious likelihood. Commander Carlisle A. H. Trost, a submarine officer with special training in hydraulics, went to the National Archives to inspect the casket and advise on the preparations for the drop. Following his recommendations, the casket was opened and three eighty-pound bags of sand were placed inside. The casket was then shut and bound with metal banding tape and replaced in the pine box, which was in turn bound with metal banding tape. Numerous holes were drilled in both the casket and the box to insure that no air pockets would develop. The total weight was some 660 pounds and the dimensions were 7' 2 1/2" long, 31 1/2" wide and 27 1/2" high. Pickup was made at the National Archives building by Colonel Wm. A. Knowlton, USA, in an Air Force van with a closed back, driven by S/Sgt Ray R, Stilwell, AF 15436320, of the 93d Air Terminal Squadron. Delivery was received from Walter Robertson, Jr., Administrative Officer of the National Archives, and Lewis M. Robeson, Chief of the National Archives Handling Branch. The van proceeded directly to Andrews Air Force Base, and the load was placed aboard a waiting C-130E aircraft (No. 54960) from the 61st Troop Carrier Squadron. The aircraft was commanded by Major Leo W. Tubayr-USAF, FR 42561, and co-piloted by Captain Frederick E. Clark, USAF, FV 3066163. The senior loadmaster was S/Sgt Thomas E. Eagle, AF 13478093, who supervised the loading and the rigging of the load with two air¬drop parachutes. The parachutes were to break the shock of impact upon hitting the water from 500 feet, the scheduled altitude for the drop. The weather was clear, with excellent visibility, and the ocean calm. The selected point for the airdrop was as indicated on the first map attached hereto. This area was selected because it is away from regularly traveled air and shipping lines, is well out from the edge of the continental shelf with a depth of some 1500 fathoms, and would not be subject to trawling or other sea-bottom activity. Take off was at 8:38 a, m. Aboard in addition to the regular crew was Colonel B. R. Daughtrey, Executive Assistant to the Secretary of the Air Force, who had made arrangements for the aircraft, and the undersigned. The aircraft proceeded southeast and northeast along the route shown on the second map attached hereto to the drop point, where the aircraft made a thorough search to determine that no vessels were in sight. The aircraft then descended to 500 feet, opened the tail hatch and prepared for the drop. At 10:00 a, m. EST, the rigged load was pushed from the plane through the tail hatch, the parachutes opened shortly before impact, and the entire rigged load remained intact and sank sharply, clearly and immediately after the soft impact. Only one small plywood skipboard, on which the load rested during the ejection process, broke away. Included among the witnesses were Colonel Daughtrey, the two loadmasters (S /Sgt Eagle and AIC Michael E. Kelly, AF 13719923), and the undersigned. The aircraft circled the drop point for some 20 minutes at 500 feet altitude to ensure that nothing returned to the surface. The aircraft then proceeded directly back to Andrews Air Force Base, landing at 11:30 a.m. The undersigned promptly informed Dr. Robert H. Bahmer, the Archivist of the United States, and Harold F. Reis, Executive Assistant to the Attorney General, (the designated contact points in GSA and Justice respectively) of the accomplishment of the requested mission. John, you may want to read my most recent post on the Operation Valkyrie thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Simkin Posted July 4, 2010 Author Share Posted July 4, 2010 Mark Allen has suggested this might have been the way that the Kennedy family disposed of the missing autopsy materials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B. A. Copeland Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Why would they want to dispose of those materials? I've often tried to wonder about that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 (edited) BY JOE BACKES.. http://www.jfklancer.com/backes/horne/Backes2b.html Edited July 7, 2010 by Bernice Moore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 JFK's Coffin -- at Bottom of the Sea Tuesday, July 6, 2010 9:23 PM http://www.mail-archive.com/ctrl@listserv.aol.com/msg14235.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 (edited) LINKS ARTICLES RE THE DALLAS COFFIN... http://www.jfklancer.com/LNE/coffin.html Edited July 7, 2010 by Bernice Moore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 That is the gray metal shipping casket! Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 (edited) That is the gray metal shipping casket! Jack HI JACK, YES IT IS.... TAKE CARE BEST B http://pages.prodigy.net/whiskey99/hearnoevil.htm Edited July 7, 2010 by Bernice Moore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/med_testimony/Lipsey_1-18-78/HSCA-Lipsey.htm Dr. DONALD THOMAS during his NID-2001 presentation, "Hear No Evil": The x-ray of the President's head taken at the autopsy revealed a metal fragment on the outside of the cranium located 10 cm dorsad of the occipital protuberance. The scalp wound in apposition to this piece of metal was described in the autopsy facing sheet (7 HSCA 253) as "ragged, slanting" with an arrow indicating an upward trajectory. Dr. RUSSELL FISHER, the chairman of the forensic pathology panel appointed by Attorney General RAMSEY CLARK to review the autopsy materials concluded that the piece of metal was, "...most likely a richochet fragment" (interview in Menninger pp. 64-66). I am not a forensic pathologist, but Dr. FISHER's expert diagnosis meshes well with the filmed evidence of the President's reaction, the accounts of the eyewitnesses, and explains the ragged nature of the scalp wound. Or, we may choose to rely on the HSCA Forensic Pathology panel's expertise on how this piece of metal came to be lodged on the outside of the President's skull. The Warren Commission's doctors elected not to report this piece of metal in their autopsy protocol. The forensic pathology panel met with the Chief Prosector, JAMES HUMES, and asked him about the fragment and scalp lesion. Transcripts of the panel's discussion elicited the following opinion from Dr. GEORGE LOQUVAM: COE: "The reason we are so interested in this, Dr. Humes, is because other pathologists have interpreted the..." LOQUVAM: "I don't think this belongs in the damn record." HUMES: "Well, it probably doesn't." LOQUVAM: "You guys are nuts. You guys are nuts writing this stuff. It doesn't belong in the damn record." (7HSCA255) **************************************************************** On July 25, 1964 former Carousel stripper Nancy Powell, aka Tammie True testified before the WC. She spoke of seeing a black hearse carrying the President leave Parkland Hospital. She wasn't alone on this Friday afternoon trip. She had a guy named Pete with her. 15H418 Mrs. POWELL. We didn't remain very long. We just stopped by there for a minute, and we left there and came downtown. No; we went to Parkland Hospital. We were there long enough, because we found he was in Parkland Hospital. And Pete and I went over to Parkland Hospital.... 15H420 Mrs. POWELL. What I thought was his body. I mean, I didn't see in there, but I know it was a black hearse and the curtains were drawn, and they had a motorcade, so I know it must have been him. Mr. GRIFFIN. Then what did you do? Mrs. POWELL Then I left. Mr. GRIFFIN. Where did you go? Mrs. POWELL. I went back to Fort Worth, because my grandmother was very, very fond of the President, and she was pretty old, and I knew she would be very upset. Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you take your friend back with you? Mrs. POWELL. Yes. Mr. GRIFFIN. What was his name? Mrs. POWELL. Pete. Mr. GRIFFIN. What was his last name? Mrs. POWELL. If you hadn't asked me, I could have of told you. Devoire, D-e-v-o-i-r-e . Mr. GRIFFIN. You said he was from Tulsa? Mrs. POWELL. Yes. Mr. GRIFFIN. What does he do for a living? Mrs. POWELL. He is a bartender. Mr. GRIFFIN. What club was he working in? Mrs. POWELL. Well, he was working in Enid whenever he went to Mexico, and I don't know the name of it. *************************************************************** Dennis David has said many times. Navy Ambulance brings metal shipping casket! *********************************************************** THE BLACK HEARSE The black hearse is exactly what Bob Doran heard the reporter announcing on the radio as it pulled up to the opposite side the JFK casket would be loaded on. I am growing more positive that this is the casket that O'Connor saw after Dennis David and his crew brought it into the morgue well before Jackie Kennedy arrived. Here is some of what Bob has said in past correspondences ... " The "visual" image that I had developed in my brain of this radio report of the "Dead Secret Service Man," for some twenty-five years was exactly as I describe in this early posting. I had not even thought of this event, until about the late 1980s, when for the first time I saw a TV documentary on the Assassination. There, for the first time in twenty-five years, I saw the film coverage of the funeral home casket loading at Love Field. What I was seeing did not match the mental image that I had stored in my brain from hearing that original radio broadcast in Philadelphia at 3:15 PM, Nov. 22! I was preparing my box lunch to take to a local high school retraining program. I was twenty-six at the time, and I was enrolled in a Job Service (Federally funded) retraining program at a Technical School, in Fairless Hills, PA. I had to be there by 4:00 PM. When I first saw the historic film coverage, I couldn't accept what I was seeing. Everything was the wrong orientation! When I found that there was never a "Dead Secrete Service Man" event, I had become convince that the "lost" reporter was actually describing the loading of JFK's casket! But, it was on the wrong side of the aircraft! In my mind, I thought that the official JFK loading was on the right front of the aircraft, where the forward galley is located! I was shocked to see, for the first time, that it occurred at the aft galley door! I was very familiar with the Boeing 707 as I had worked with the original configuration aircraft, the Air Force version of the KC-135 aerial refueling tanker! Another anomaly, was the large number of vehicles and people around the JFK loading! In my "radio" mind. I could still see only one funeral hearse and four to six men dressed in black! That was when I decided that something was rotten in Denmark! Why would a local "radio reporter" make up such a broadcast that was put out on a national radio broadcasting network, as a breaking news event? But, there it is, a back hearse and a small number of men "struggling" with a "pink" colored "shipping casket" up a rollaway stairwell, at the right forward galley door! (Quotations are the exact wording that the reporter used.) He described that he was at Parkland Hospital when suddenly the LBJ caravan took off. He had gotten behind and became "lost" when he couldn't find the entrance to the tarmac at Love Field. He finally Air Force One, and he was "outside the fence" as he described what he saw. With 1960s technolgy, he would have had a "sound Man" with him, to patch his radio transmisson to the local station. They would have been using a radio phone set up, and someone had to handle this bulky operation, along with the reporter. Is it possible that the local radio reporter arrived before the Curry/LBJ group? He had been left behind at Parkland, but since he didn't enter the airport, he may have by accident, discovered the new location of Air Force One before the others? He may have actually seen the second casket being loaded before the JFK funeral caravan arrived? The Curry/LBJ people had a hard time in locating where the three Presidential aircraft had been moved to at Love Field. They weren't parked in the same place when JFK had landed at Love, earlier that morning. Soon after the Assassination, I dismissed the TV reports of a dead Secret Service agent, when it was revealed that none had been killed. I put the Dallas radio report out of my mind! It was another twenty-five plus years before I started my investigation into the Assassination. It was then that this radio report came back to haunt me! My "visual" memory of what I had stored in my brain, didn't fit the JFK casket loading! It was on the wrong side for one thing. It was another ten years before I posted my first recollection of the report on the then "new" JFKLancer forum! That's why this 2002 posting of mine is important. You may be absolutely correct about the TV report of a "Dead Secret Service Man" as being cover for the local radio report that accidentally went out on the national radio networks, as a "breaking news report" live from Dallas. The very last thing that the reporter said was, "Apparently, a Secret Service agent had been killed also," as to explain the anomaly that was describing live at 2:15 PM, Dallas time. This in itself wouldn't have started the TV report of a "Dead Secret Service Man," being report continuously for nearly the next three hours! A second report from this radio reporter, of the JFK funeral casket loading wouldn't have gone out on the air, as it was already being handled by those with the Curry/LBJ party. In 1993, at the thirty year anniversary, there was a release of all of the wire services new reports! I had a friend of mine, who worked for a major newspaper, check the AP wire services release, and he verified that at exactly 2:15 PM, the very first report of the "Dead Secret Service Man" report went on the wire service. Apparently, it came from the local Dallas radio reporters broadcast! I have never been able to verify this AP compilation release for the 30th Anniversary, in 1993. Perhaps someone on the forum may be able to find a copy of it. My newspaper friend said that it was many pages long, and apparently was never made available to the public! I do not believe that David Lifton knows or understands about this local live radio report, as he is thinking of the TV report! He probably doesn't know of origins of the TV release, which was probably orchestrated at a very high level of intelligence operation to cover this "accidental" sighting of the second casket loading. Bottom line, it was orchestrated right from the very beginning that they would steal the body from Dallas and perform a controlled autopsy at Walter Reed Hospital, in Washington. After all, John Edgar Hoover decreed it!" (end) Nancy Powell, witness at Parkland Hospital, WC testimony Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you see President Johnson come out of the hospital? Mrs. POWELL. No; I didn't. I don't think he was seen, was he? Did they put him in a car with the curtains drawn? I know they kind of worried about him. Mr. GRIFFIN. Was the entrance that you were standing by, the entrance that President Kennedy's body was taken into? Mrs. POWELL. No. See, I wasn't there when they took him in or anything, but I was standing here on this side. Now, this would be Harry Hines running north and south; right? Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes. Mrs. POWELL. I was standing on the south side of the building, and I think the emergency is around here. There wasn't any way I could get close to the emergency, because it was just full of cars and people, so I came down here to Hines and pulled up over a curb and got upon the grass and parked down here. They brought the President from somewhere around here, because this is a curb and a street all through here like the front of this. Mr. GRIFFIN. I am going to have to stop you a minute, Nancy, because I want to make what you have been saying clear to the people that read the record. Mrs. POWELL. Okay. Mr. GRIFFIN. Let me ask you at this point where you think the entrance was that you were looking at, the entrance that you were near? Mrs. POWELL. Right here. Mr. GRIFFIN. That is on the south side of the building? Mrs. POWELL. Yes, it is on the south side. Mr. GRIFFIN. Also, you have drawn a line of some sort out of the north side of the building? Mrs. POWELL. Well, you told me to show you where I thought they brought him out. Mr. GRIFFIN. That is right. Now, would you make an arrow on that and then along the arrow that you have drawn, indicate the place from which you think President Kennedy's body was taken? Would you write something to the effect, "Place from which President Kennedy's body was taken"? Mrs. POWELL. But I didn't see it. Mr. GRIFFIN. But you have some idea. I am trying to get some idea in case you are not clear really on what entrance this is. Mrs. POWELL. I am clear on the entrance. I know it is the entrance on the south side, and I know that is where a lot of reporters and people were going in there. Mr. GRIFFIN. I see. While you were standing there, at any time did you see Jack Ruby around? Mrs. POWELL. No. Do you want me to do this now? This is a curb. Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. I think it is good enough to leave it the way it is, and I won't ask you to mark President Kennedy's route. Mrs. POWELL. I know where he came from, and it apparently must have been from here. Mr. GRIFFIN. The north side is what you are pointing to? Mrs. POWELL. I was standing here, and when they came out, they had him in a hearse. Mr. GRIFFIN. You saw the hearse come by? Mrs. POWELL. Yes. It came from around the end of the building like this, and they came down this way through here and down Harry Hines. Mr. GRIFFIN. Mark some arrows on that line so that we know it is the route of the President. Mrs. POWELL. This is Harry Hines, and they went down this way. Mr. GRIFFIN. Let me mark it for you so I will show you what I want. I am putting arrows along the route to indicate where it was, and I am going to mark this, "Route of President Kennedy's hearse." I am going to mark this piece of paper that we have been working with here as "Nancy Powell Deposition, July 25, 1964, Exhibit No. 1." How long did you remain out at Parkland Hospital? Mrs. POWELL. Till they brought his body by. Mr. GRIFFIN. Then what did you do? Mrs. POWELL. What I thought was his body. I mean, I didn't see in there, but I know it was a black hearse and the curtains were drawn, and they had a motorcade, so I know it must have been him. Mr. GRIFFIN. Then what did you do? Mrs. POWELL Then I left. THE SECRET SERVICE AGENT AT LOVE FIELD The Secret Service agent who was guarding Air Force One at Love Field(Roger Warner) was pulled off his assignment there to go off and investigate a "suspect" who the Dallas Police were questioning. Why in the world would a Secret Service agent be pulled off his post at Love Field to get involved in a Dallas Police interrogation of an individual? And, it was at approximately the same time that Bob heard the radio report of the casket being loaded on to Air Force One. The Secret Service agent had to be out of the area while the shipping casket was being loaded on to Air Force One. How did they do it? They sent him on a wild goose chase by getting him involved with the questioning of Donald Wayne House. R.J.Smith ****************************************************************** The shipping casket was taken aboard AF1 on the right front side of the aircraft. This is not that photo but shows, the site from that side..... ********************************************************************* A SECRET SERVICEMAN AND A DALLAS POLICEMAN WERE SHOT TODAY SOME DISTANCE FROM WHERE PRESIDENT KENNEDY WAS ASSASSINATED. The first Reuter newsflash to mention the dead Secret Service agent. This newsflash is timed at 2021 (that's 8.21pm GMT - 2.21pm CST). ********************************************************************* David Lifton did deal to some extent in this work with the possibility that the body could have been brought back to Washington in another plane, but seemed to discount that possibility ******************************************************************* As with its arrival at Bethesda in a black hearse, in a shipping casket, well prior to the arrival of the motorcade from Andrews supposedly carrying the body, with the body in a body bag, and in what appeared to be, at least in the case of the head and throat wounds, a totally different condition than when it was viewed at Parkland. ********************************************************************** Air Force One bears tailfin no. 26000 and Air Force Two has 86970.... AF1 has blue trim, AF2 has red trim. ******************************************************************* ***************************************************************** There were two WH photographers in Dallas that day, Cecil Stoughton and Tom Atkins… *************************************************************** Dear Mr. Morissette, Your question regarding a photograph was forwarded to my attention in the Audiovisual Archives of the John Fitzgerald Kennedy Library. I have not before seen the image that you attached from Corbis - it is not a part of the holdings here, as best as I can determine. It may be a part of the holdings of the Johnson Library, and you may wish to query them about this. There are images made from the front of Air Force One by Capt. Stoughton that document the President's body being borne on to Air Force One, and then Mrs. Kennedy and the rest of the group following. There are eleven b/w images in that series. That series is followed by the series of images that Capt. Stoughton made aboard Air Force One to document President Johnson swearing the Oath of Office. If I may be of other service, please do not hesitate to contact me. Sincerely, James B. Hill Audiovisual Archives John Fitzgerald Kennedy Library Columbia Point Boston, MA 02125-3398 *************************************************************** The shipping casket would just as likely be seen being put aboard AF1 as aboard AF2. (According to Doran, that's just what happened, it was seen being put aboard AF1.) Likewise, it had to be taken off AF1 and therefore just as likely to be seen by someone. I believe Lifton wrote that a helicopter came alongside AF1 upon its arrival inDC and whisked away the body. The same thing could have been done with AF2, with the advantage that there wouldn't have been a bunch of people and TV cameras around when AF2 arrived, had it arrived earlier with the body. I don't know when AF2 in fact arrived, but it seems to me that's how it would have been planned. There also would have been no passengers to worry about on AF2. *************************************************************** In the NBC News "As it Happened" video, the reporters consistently referred to the body being helicoptered. They said it prior to and after AF1 landed at Andrews. A helicopter did land and taxied to the rear of AF1, where LBJ and and party got aboard after he made his "this is a sad time for all people" statement. The reporters, however, continued to say there was a helicopter at the other end of the airfield. If I recall, they also continued to say, even after the casket was put into the hearse, that a helicopter was going to transport the body... ***************************************************************** According to Lifton AF2 passed AF1 in flight back to DC. ***************************************************************** Wouldn't someone on AF2, such as the pilot, have known if the body or at least a shipping casket was on board? And in fact Col. Joe Sofet of AF2 told Lifton that the idea something was surreptitiously put on board was "bull." But what would one expect him to say? I might note that Joe Ayres, the chief steward of AF1, was "accidentally" shot to death a few years later. ************************************************************** Dr. Jenkins: "the wound with the exploded area of the scalp, as I interpreted it being exploded, I would interpret it being a wound of exit" (VI H p 151) "I really think part of the cerebellum, as I recognized it, was herniated from the wound." (VI H p 48) Dr. Baxter: "the right temporal and occipital bones were missing and the brain was lying on the table." (VI H p. 41) Dr. Perry: " I noted a large avulsive wound of the right parietal occipital area, in which both scalp and portions of skull were absent." (III H p. 372) Dr. McClelland also told JAMA on May 27, 1992 that, "the wound I observed did appear consistent with a shot from the front." (JAMA, May 27, 1992,v.267:2807 cited in "Trauma Room One by Cyril Wecht, Gary Aguilar, et al 2001, p 198) *************************************************************** 26 doctors and nurses at Parkland and at least 5 people at Bethesda all placed the wound they observed in the same location... *************************************************************** From the ARRB depositions, this exchange (pp.26-30): Mr. Guinn: Dr. McClelland, where were you standing, first of all? Dr. McClelland: I was standing at the head of --Dr. Perry, as he said...So I was standing where I was looking down intently in the wound and really had nothing to do but that because I--it didn't take much attention to pull the retractor. And so I could clearly see what the wound looked like over a good period of time... And as I said in my testimony that this wound looked pretty much like everybody else has described it here. It was a very large wound and I would agree that it was at least seven or eight centimeters in diameter and was mostly really in the occipital part of the skull. And as I was looking at it, a fairly large portion of the cerebellum fell out of the skull...I mean, there was no doubt about it, and I was that far from it (indicating)...twelve to eighteen inches. Mr. Guinn: How long were you at the head of the table? Dr. McClelland: Oh, till they finished the tracheostomy. I don't know exactly how long that would be, but I guess, you know, it had to be a minimum of 5 minutes and probably somewhere between 5 and 10, but that's just a rough guess. But it was more than just a transient view of it. It was a concentrated view. *********************************************************** Aubrey Rike who assisted in placing JFK into the casket in Dallas said that when he placed his hand under JFK's head - there was nothing there. He said it was like holding a wet sponge - no skull bone was present for support. **************************************************************** Audrey Bell and Aubrey Rike in Harrison Livingstone's book, "High Treason 2." Nurse Bell did see the gaping hole in the back of JFK's head when a doctor showed it to her on page 317. Rike felt the emptiness of a hole in the back of JFK's head, when he placed his hand there. page 297. ***************************************************************** In the MWKK series " Aubrey Rike describes the back of JFK's head when he placed his hand under it to help lift the body. ***************************************************************** Audrey Bell's ARRB testimony. While at the table in trauma room one, she asked, "where's the wound?" DR. PERRY turned the President's head to the President's anatomical left so she could see a right rear posterior head wound, which she described as occipital in both her oral remarks, and in her drawings. (Audrey Bell ARRB Testimony, March 20, 1997 to Jeremy Gunn).. ******************************************************************* Jenkins points out, back of the head wound to Perry, who in turn points it out to nurse Bell, Rike who felt it with his hand. The meticulous description of McClelland, who was at the head of the table and in a good position to view the wound.One more interesting witness. On p. 110 of JFK Conspiracy of Silence, Dr. Crenshaw, says at the time Kennedy's body was to be put into the casket: "Before I directed the body be moved, I turned down the sheet and took one long, last look at President Kennedy's head wound. I was the last doctor at Parkland to see it." Crenshaw was emphatic that the wound was occipital-parietal,and his drawing of location follows McClelland's closely. *************************************************************** Secret Service Agent Clint Hill, who jumped on the rear of the limousine, and got a close up look of the wound on the ride all the way to Parkland. Hill testified before the WC: Specter: "What did you observe as to President Kennedy's condition on arrival at the hospital?" Hill: "The right rear portion of his head was missing." (WCH II p 141) Nurse Diana Bowron was one of the first emergency room personnel to arrive at the limo. She testified before the WC: Specter: "You saw the condition of his what?" Bowron: "The back of his head." Specter: "And what was that condition?" Bowron: "Well, it was very bad---you know." Specter: "How many holes did you see?" Bowron: "I just saw one large hole." (WCH VI p. 36) All consistent, from Dealey Plaza, to the parking lot of Parkland, to the trauma room of Parkland , to Bethesda, all of these medical personnel,and a secret service agent who had an observation of the wound that would be considered as very close, spread over thousands of miles,couldn't all be wrong...... **************************************************************** Most if not all of the original testimony of those that saw the body of JFK before it left Parkland hospital is correct with respect to the size, location, and condition of the wound/wounds and the part of the brain that was exposed through the wound in the back, occipital-parietal regions to JFK's head and that those that saw the body when it first arrived at Bethesda merely saw a much larger wound that encompassed the one that was seen at Parkland. Therefore some of the extant autopsy photos and x-rays are either taken of a reconstruction of the head sometime during the autopys or embalming procedures OR were faked and farbicated after the fact or a combination of both. It matters little which is the case because both mean complicity of persons in the murder of JFK far beyond Oswald alone or Oswald and someone else working together in a simple conspiracy. ************************************************************** From Clint Hill, to the last, Robinson the mortician, both agreed the right-rear of Kennedy's head was blown off. What happened in the time between these sightings would appear to be the greatest crime, next to the assassination itself. **************************************************************** The WC deleted and classified Mrs. Kennedy's observance of the President's head wound from her WC testimony of June 5, 1964. (WCH vol V p 180). In 1972 in FOIA suit, her testimony was released, and what the WC didn't want the American public to read about JFk's head wound came to light. Mrs. Kennedy's WC testimony about her husband's head wound stated: Mrs. Kennedy: "I was trying to hold his hair on. But from the front there was nothing. I suppose there must have been, but from the back you could see, you know, you were trying to hold his hair on, and his skull on." ("The Killing Of A President," Robert Groden, p. 38) She was trying to hold the back of his head on..from the witness ( his wife) in the limo, sitting next to her husband,she was trying to put the rear of his head back together......trajedy.. *************************************************************** Preparation of JFK for burial was done by Tom Robinson, who was an assistant for Gawler's Funeral Home,he had the task of preparing JFK for his casket. In an interview with Harrison Livingstone, he said the following: "A lot of scalp in the back was gone. We used a piece of rubber there, in the back." Livingstone: "Did you cover the missing area of scalp wilth a hairpiece?" Robinson: "No. We didn't have to. No one could see the hole on the pillow. No, no hairpiece was used. We didn't have to, because the part of the back of the head where scalp was missing was placed on the pillow, and no one could see it. There was a big hole in the pillow to take care of leakage, and that covered up the missing area." ("High Treason 2," Harrison Livingstone, p. 580).. **************************************************************** The break in the chain of evidence concerning the description of the rear head wound comes from the final autopsy draft:... after Humes has burned part of his original notes... Then follows by photographs and Xrays taken by those whom claim the existing images are not accurate and have been altered... To hide a large wound seen on 11/22/63, then the description of the rear head wound reverses back to the Dallas version when the body reaches J.F.K's mortician. ***************************************************************** Humes writes that the large wound in the head was devoid of scalp and skull and extended somewhat into the occiptial region. When a descripition of the head wound is made that states the absense of scalp and skull, and also extends into the occiptial region, then certain autopsy photos and x-rays are negated that show the back of the head.. ***************************************************************** ************************************************************** When the body bag was unzipped - O'Conner said there was nothing but an empty cavity. His job was to remove the brain, he knew what to expect. Siebert had said there was obvious surgery at the top of the skull... Perry was a genuius with the blade and this 3.5" gash was not the work of Dr. Perry.( Dr.Crenshaw to Dan Rather)..The trachea tube is inserted to fit snugly to prevent air from escaping. Perry said ... "I made an incision through the wound" to insert a tube and have the slit fit tightly back over the tube...So......there was a body switch and someone did remove the brain after the body left Parkland and before O'Conner opened the grey metal shipping casket long before Jacqueline showed up at Bethesda with the Bronze coffin....... ***************************************************************** The Directive...... Simply to destroy the scalp and skull in such a way as to eliminate any substantative evidence of a bullet entering from either the front or rear, and they succeeded. ****************************************************************** The tears and fragments along with the disappearance of the Harper fragment it is reasoned that the tears represent the cutting of the scalp to gain access to the skull, similar to a regular autopsy procedure. The destruction of the skull on the top and right hand side of the head probably was made by the use of a hammer.....fitting Paul OConnor's description......to gain access to the cranial vault .....this is David Lifton's theory).... The pieces of skull that were brought to the autopsy room had been removed during the alteration and were an attempt to get Humes, Boswell, and Finck to agree on where the bullet entered and exited...Humes did state that it was only after these peices were brought to the autopsy room that they were able to finally determine the point of exit and entry. One was used to complete the entry wound in the occipital region of the skull. That is why the Harper fragment disappeared, because it had been determined by a competent pathologist that it was from the occiptial region. He being the only qualified person to ever see it.......There were 2 peices of skull from the occipital region and this of course was not acceptable. **************************************************************** Dennis David's statement that he and Bill Pitzer looking at the autopsy photos in Pitzer's office said they could only reach one conclusion , that the large hole in the rear of the head was an exit wound. *************************************************************** Bob Doran was listening to the radio when he heard a reporter describe a shipping casket being taken aboard of AF1. There was a period before leaving Parkland that this switch could and for all practical purposes did take place. That would certainly explain why not allowing Earl Rose to have the Bronze casket was of such importance. There was no need to take a spare shipping casket aboard AF1 either, unless it actually now contained the body that was going to end up at Bethesda 30 - 40 mintes before Jackie arrived with what she thought was her husbands casket. ***************************************************************** The Third Decade," Vol. 6 # 3, 1990, titled, "The Body Switch: A Parkland Scenario," by Jerry Rose. There is a description of how hospital administrator J.C. Price showed Secret Service agents a back exit to PARKLAND HOSPITAL..... (WCH 21 p.259) Price states that on two occasions, he showed this "tunnel exit" to agents. In the First, an unspecified agent asked if there were "another way that the President and Mrs. Kennedy could be taken out of the building." (WCH 21 p.259) Price showed the exit and, shortly thereafter, another agent asked for an alternate exit, this time for the departure of the Johnsons. (WCH 21 p 260) Secret Service agent Johns verified that he had contacted Price at the request of agent Youngblood. (WCH 18 p 775) After being shown this exit, Johns was surprised to find the Johnsons already gone when he returned. Jerry goes on to say that the "tunnel exit" was not used by President and Mrs. Kennedy (or at least Mrs. Kennedy), and that the "tunnel exit" may have been used to remove JFK's body for a clandestine trip to D.C. Could the tunnel,have been the exit taken by the shipping casket that Bob Doran heard on the radio, that was being loaded on to AF 1 on the afternoon of the 22nd...? ***************************************************************** A brain could have been brought to the morgue after the body arrived......( Tippits ?)....see Doug Horne's work.. ****************************************************************** Where were the skull fragments found before they were brought to the morgue and exactly how did they get there. From the limo ?and returned from Dallas?. The limo, as with the body, was almost immedately removed from Dallas by the Federal government therefore any scenario of their discovery and transport to the autopsy room can be questioned. ************************************************************** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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