Robert Harris's Broken 3rd Floor Daltex Window Theory Blown Out Of The Water

[Bill Miller]

Please stop evading my very simple question. I'll try again:

OK Bill, so you think she was examining JFK at 228-229 through some kind of peripheral vision - right?

Nellie said she saw JFK's hands come up to his face .... peripheral vision was one option ... another was her just looking at him with her eyes which I have said could be done without turning her head. She went on to say that she must have been looking at John because when she heard the second shot that she saw John buckle over and recoil to his right.

You can read it until your eyes fall out and it won't change .. nor will the other details she gave in the order that she remembered them. If you do not like what Nellie said ... get a Medium and see if you can talk to her from the grave and see if she'll change it for you.

I have laid the photographic record out in order as she described it and all those things she said she witnessed - Sorry!

Bill Miller

[Robert Harris]

Please stop evading my very simple question. I'll try again:

OK Bill, so you think she was examining JFK at 228-229 through some kind of peripheral vision - right?

Nellie said she saw JFK's hands come up to his face .... peripheral vision was one option ... another was her just looking at him with her eyes which I have said could be done without turning her head. She went on to say that she must have been looking at John because when she heard the second shot that she saw John buckle over and recoil to his right.

You can read it until your eyes fall out and it won't change .. nor will the other details she gave in the order that she remembered them. If you do not like what Nellie said ... get a Medium and see if you can talk to her from the grave and see if she'll change it for you.

I have laid the photographic record out in order as she described it and all those things she said she witnessed - Sorry!

Bill Miller

According to Robin, you and Duncan had some nasty fights before you came around to mending fences.

I suggest we do the same Bill, well perhaps not to such an extreme degree but at least to the point where instead of attacking each other, we attack the mystery of when Mrs. Connally heard that shot that she believed wounded her husband.

I'm thinking that since we know these shots were loud as hell, it was not something she would just imagine. I think she really did hear that shot, don't you?

I'm also thinking that we have three major clues to work with. First, we know this happened sometime after she looked back and saw JFK in distress, whether that happened at 229 or 258.

And second, she said that when she heard that shot, she turned back to her husband and pulled him back to her.

Also, since we know that shot was "earshattering", and many times louder than required to startle folks, that it was bound to affect the others in the limo as well. Don't you agree?

My thinking is that we might be able to spot those things in the Zapruder film. Don't you agree Bill?

Do you see reactions like that in the film??

[Bill Miller]

OK Bill, so you think she was examining JFK at 228-229 through some kind of peripheral vision - right?

According to Robin, you and Duncan had some nasty fights before you came around to mending fences.

I suggest we do the same Bill, well perhaps not to such an extreme degree but at least to the point where instead of attacking each other, we attack the mystery of when Mrs. Connally heard that shot that she believed wounded her husband.

Duncan and I have had disagreements that led to long debates. I have always used illustrations and information, not excluding eventual sarcasm to make a point, but it was Duncan's position that I went after. As Duncan has said ... he learned from those experiences and later decided that some of his claims were erred. This so far is what separates Duncan from you.

I'm thinking that since we know these shots were loud as hell, it was not something she would just imagine. I think she really did hear that shot, don't you?

I'm thinking that some witnesses didn't recognize some shots as being shots and that is why some witnesses described hearing only two while others as many as six. I have explained that some witnesses depending on their location to the shots would not have heard them all and I explained how that came to be known. Nellie had said she heard a noise, but didn't know that it was a shot at first because she was use to hearing the noise from the cycles. Nellie has said that she heard the first shot (noise) and the second shot (noise) and was looking at her husband when it hit him. She adds that she saw her husband buckle over from being hit and she said he recoiled to his right.

I'm also thinking that we have three major clues to work with. First, we know this happened sometime after she looked back and saw JFK in distress, whether that happened at 229 or 258.

As was demonstrated with good enlargements - Nellie was looking in the direction of her husband when the first shot was fired as JFK was waving and smiling at Woodward and the women next to her. It has been offered as proof that Nellie offered more detail in another interview whereas she saw the President raise his hands to his face. Because Nellie was looking in the direction of her husband, and having rode in her seat in the replica car so to test her view for myself, I cannot dispute her having been able to see the President bringing his hands up to his face. That event in already in motion as JFK is coming out from behind the road sign at Z223/Z224.

And second, she said that when she heard that shot, she turned back to her husband and pulled him back to her.

Again you are not breaking it down as she said it. She said that upon hearing the second shot she must have been looking at her husband. She said she saw Connally buckle - then recoil to his right. These things took time to do and she has made it clear that she witnessed it. Then she pulled John back towards her and that is when your theory says she heard the shot and I totally disagree with your assessment based on the facts that I have previously stated.

Also, since we know that shot was "earshattering", and many times louder than required to startle folks, that it was bound to affect the others in the limo as well. Don't you agree?

One would be a fool to think they could assume how different people should react ... too many factors. Jackie appeared to be puzzled as to what was wrong with her husband. JFK was in no position to do anything other than react to be hit in the throat. Connally never even heard the shot that hit him, which is a reasonable statement considering the bullet travels faster than sound. Nellie seemed to be in shock as she watched the initial stages of the event unfold, which is also normal, especially when she wasn't sure at first what those noises were. This leaves Greer and Kellerman who in Altgens #6 they do not seem to be aware of what's happening either. It appears from the Zapruder film that Greer heard Connally raising hell and looked back twice to see what was going on. All these things Nellie said she saw unfold happened over several seconds before the head shot. Your faulty interpretation of this overlooks these things in my view.

My thinking is that we might be able to spot those things in the Zapruder film. Don't you agree Bill?

Do you see reactions like that in the film??

I believe that the things Nellie said she witnessed can be observed on the Zapruder film and I have detailed them. By Z286+ ... Nellie is already at the point in time where she pulled her husband back towards her. Below is more of a stabilized view of this ...

Bill Miller

[Bill Miller]

Connally's head turn demonstrated for the Commission press cameras in real time ....

Bill Miller

Another Connally demonstration as just turns his head to his right ....

and another (see 4:20)

Bill Miller

Edited November 22, 2010 by Bill Miller

[Chris Davidson]

Robert,

Take a look at Greer's reaction after the governor gets hit.

Greer is reacting to that shot.

He hits the brakes, braces at least his right arm against the steering wheel, which propels his torso up and backwards toward his seat.

Which means the car should slow down tremendously or stop.

chris

[Bill Miller]

Chris is right ... Connally is seen just after buckling over and he has started his recoil to the right. Then Connally started calling out they were all going to be killed - Jackie turns her attention to the Governor - and Greer appears to be reacting to the sudden disturbance. When taken as a whole it is very supportive of the Witnesses statements.

Below Nellie pulls her husband towards her and gets right up to his ear and tells him it will be alright ... then the kill shot to JFK. Considering the circumstances, I think the witnesses did well for the most part in sequencing the event. (click image to start animation)

Bill

Edited November 22, 2010 by Bill Miller

[Robert Harris]

NWR

Edited November 22, 2010 by Robert Harris

[Robert Harris]

I really can't believe that you guys would have posted such ludicrous statements about the attack if I had done a better job of explaining this stuff to you.

So, I think I need to put together another video presentation that walks us through those events one frame at a time and makes it crystal clear, what happened. I'm probably overdue for something like that anyway.

I do thank you for the wakeup call and the motivation I obviously needed, to get off my butt and get to work

[Bill Miller]

Another video presenting the same falsehoods will not change the fact that you are wrong.

Wasn't it Joseph Goebbels who said 'If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, or just make another video, people will eventually come to believe it'

No truer words were ever spoken, Duncan. Harris reminds me of someone who cannot understand why 4 + 4 does not equal 44. He appears to just come up with a claim first and then looks for ways of selling it.

Has anyone looked to see if he has removed any videos that claimed that JFK made a fist because he was hit in the head with asphalt as he rode through the intersection of Houston and Elm or never smiled again after that turn? Would you be surprised that he hadn't ... I wouldn't be.

Bill Miller

Edited November 22, 2010 by Bill Miller

[Craig Lamson]

Which means the car should slow down tremendously or stop.

chris

What are you going to use to gauge the slowdown Chris? The only thing you have to compare the speed to is the blurred background. Thats not a very good chioce however, because the amount of blurring of the background is directly related to the speed of the camera pan. And since the speed of the camera pan INCREASES the closer the limo get to Zapruder, what we have is the background blur increasing at the same time the limo should be slowing down.

Thats why the limo seems ot have a steady pace rather than slowing and speeding up...the camera pan rate speeds inthe areas the limo should be slowing and slows where the limo should be speeding up.

[Robert Harris]

Robert,

Take a look at Greer's reaction after the governor gets hit.

Greer is reacting to that shot.

He hits the brakes, braces at least his right arm against the steering wheel, which propels his torso up and backwards toward his seat.

Which means the car should slow down tremendously or stop.

chris

Greer's reaction began at Zapruder frame 291-292 and the slowdown began at about 294, as confirmed by Dr. Alvarez. But involuntary startle reactions must begin within 1/3rd of a second following the stimulus, or 6-7 Zapruder frames. That fact was confirmed by Alvarez in his paper to the American Journal of Physics and by numerous other experts.

HSCA experts proved that Oswald's rifle generated sound levels 16 times louder than is required to provoke involuntary startle reactions. Most other high powered rifles are even louder. Therefore, we can be certain that Greer's reactions were involuntary, as were those of others in the limousine.

Of course you are correct that he reacted to a gunshot, but that shot could not have been fired more than 1/3rd of a second before he reacted. It could not have been earlier than 285.

[Chris Davidson]

Which means the car should slow down tremendously or stop.

chris

What are you going to use to gauge the slowdown Chris? The only thing you have to compare the speed to is the blurred background. Thats not a very good chioce however, because the amount of blurring of the background is directly related to the speed of the camera pan. And since the speed of the camera pan INCREASES the closer the limo get to Zapruder, what we have is the background blur increasing at the same time the limo should be slowing down.

Thats why the limo seems ot have a steady pace rather than slowing and speeding up...the camera pan rate speeds inthe areas the limo should be slowing and slows where the limo should be speeding up.

Craig,

I'm not basing my observation on the quality (blurring) of the frames, but on the braking force applied by Greer.

I agreed with you in regards to the camera pan rate speeds, as an object moves closer to the camera.

The motorcycle study awhile ago, proved that out.

I base it on someone driving approx 10-12 mph. Greer appears to have (at the least) his right hand at somewhere around 5 oclock on the steering wheel.

This quickly turns into approx 2 oclock.

He is not maneuvering into a sharp turn, but rather a gradual bend.

His hand position prior to his corrective action seems to indicate a state of ease.

I'm pretty sure it's been proven that a driver's first response to a hazard is to hit the brakes.

Greer is no different.

At some point, he hears the shot that hits Connally, braces and brakes.

As you have suggested many times before, anyone can test this.

I would expect to see a perceivable slowing of the limo, due to Greer's action's, regardless of the panning affects normally attributed to moving objects.

chris

[Robin Unger]

Which means the car should slow down tremendously or stop.

chris

What are you going to use to gauge the slowdown Chris? The only thing you have to compare the speed to is the blurred background. Thats not a very good chioce however, because the amount of blurring of the background is directly related to the speed of the camera pan. And since the speed of the camera pan INCREASES the closer the limo get to Zapruder, what we have is the background blur increasing at the same time the limo should be slowing down.

Thats why the limo seems ot have a steady pace rather than slowing and speeding up...the camera pan rate speeds inthe areas the limo should be slowing and slows where the limo should be speeding up.

Craig,

I'm not basing my observation on the quality (blurring) of the frames, but on the braking force applied by Greer.

I agreed with you in regards to the camera pan rate speeds, as an object moves closer to the camera.

The motorcycle study awhile ago, proved that out.

I base it on someone driving approx 10-12 mph. Greer appears to have (at the least) his right hand at somewhere around 5 oclock on the steering wheel.

This quickly turns into approx 2 oclock.

He is not maneuvering into a sharp turn, but rather a gradual bend.

His hand position prior to his corrective action seems to indicate a state of ease.

I'm pretty sure it's been proven that a driver's first response to a hazard is to hit the brakes.

Greer is no different.

At some point, he hears the shot that hits Connally, braces and brakes.

As you have suggested many times before, anyone can test this.

I would expect to see a perceivable slowing of the limo, due to Greer's action's, regardless of the panning affects normally attributed to moving objects.

chris

Chris.

using your stabilized frames:

It looks to me as though Greer might be bracing himself with his right hand on the steering wheel, braces himself back into the seat or as he turns to look over his left shoulder. ? ( Not sure )

Note the white hankerchief in his left pocket is no longer visible after the hand comes up.

Either he has moved his hand up higher on the steering wheel.

or

He has suddenly jerked the steering wheel to the left.

Click on the thumbnail to view GIF

Edited November 23, 2010 by Robin Unger

[Robin Unger]

Actually Chris.

Looking at this frame, and his body position, i think you may be right.

In your GIF Greer does look like he is pushing his body back into the seat, in a similar way as you would if your leg were extended pushing on the brake pedal. ?

This is as close as i can get to the "hand on the steering wheel" frames.

[Craig Lamson]

Craig,

I'm not basing my observation on the quality (blurring) of the frames, but on the braking force applied by Greer.

I agreed with you in regards to the camera pan rate speeds, as an object moves closer to the camera.

The motorcycle study awhile ago, proved that out.

I base it on someone driving approx 10-12 mph. Greer appears to have (at the least) his right hand at somewhere around 5 oclock on the steering wheel.

This quickly turns into approx 2 oclock.

He is not maneuvering into a sharp turn, but rather a gradual bend.

His hand position prior to his corrective action seems to indicate a state of ease.

I'm pretty sure it's been proven that a driver's first response to a hazard is to hit the brakes.

Greer is no different.

At some point, he hears the shot that hits Connally, braces and brakes.

As you have suggested many times before, anyone can test this.

I would expect to see a perceivable slowing of the limo, due to Greer's action's, regardless of the panning affects normally attributed to moving objects.

chris

I'm not getting into what might or might not be happening with Greer, but rather will stick to the speed issue. Somehow, one must make a value judgement about the speed of the limo, or more importantly, is is slowing down? To do that it must be compared to something. All there is to compare is the background and thats not a good indicator for the reasons mentioned. And of course thats my point, what do we campare to the moving limo to see a change in speed? If its slowing, how do we know? If its NOT slowing, how do we know?