Life Magazine Article

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Pat,

The SS didn't have to believe any of this. They knew a shot was fired after 313.

Same as the newspaper article states (frame 324 approx). Same as the previous gif shows.

Viewing a version quite superior to what we see, they knew.

chris

So did the FBI during their assassination re-enactment and survey of 2/7/64. In fact, the third/last/final shot impact (down directly in front of James Altgens position, is surveyed and plotted/platted at exactly the same location on the SS Survey Plat of 12/5/63, as it is on the FBI Survey plat of 2/7/64.

And, one can not "compare" apples and oranges in regards to elevations utilized in the SS/FBI works and those elevations as demonstrated on CE884 & the WC work.

Unless of course they have Mr. West's survey notes. (which of course many are aware are in my posession).

The SS/FBI works were associated with elevations and angles to the position on the street directly below the point at which JFK would have been.

The WC, for those who recall, gave us the "adjusted position" in which the actual aiming point was in fact some 10-inches higher than was JFK's head at the time of the true assassination.

Mr. West compensated for this "height" difference in his angles, etc, and extracted out the 10-inch difference.

Nevertheless, the distances and elevations are to a point of impact to a location which would have been JFK's head, which was slightly less than 4-feet above the street level.

Hell, it all confuses me and I know as well as understand what they did to confuse everyone else.

Tom

P.S. All of the Time/Life survey work is extremely inaccurate due to a combination of reasons.

Mostly that elevations to the rifle/window ledge are incorrect along with measurements not having been carried to the 0.1 of a foot and horizontal and vertical angles not having been computed past the point of degrees & minutes.

(not carried to seconds).

Nevertheless, the Time/Life work plots/plats the first shot impact in the Z204/206 area, which measurements can be carried over onto the more accurate SS/FBI Survey Plat, and then even better, carried to the larger scale (1-inch = 10 feet) of the WC Survey Plat.

This pretty well confirms where Time/Life located the first shot impact.

The "reason" for the SS & FBI having chosen the approximately Z210 position* is also fully understood as they had a photograph which showed JFK definitively reacting at this point.

*If one will recall, the Z208/210 controversy was long ago discussed in that Mr. West did no survey work for Z210.

He surveyed in Z208 as directed to do so by the WC, and they thereafter altered the survey data (CE884) to now make this position Z210.

So! These guys are good! And, they would have totally gotten away with their little scam were it not for one who has attended Survey School and recognized the importance of the survey notes and survey plats.

And, since Mr. West has now been deceased for a long, long time and no record of that information in his possession has surfaced, the possibility now exists that what is in my possession is "one of a kind".

Tom

Edited December 14, 2010 by Thomas H. Purvis

[Thomas H. Purvis]

In continuation of the confusion between the Time/Life Survey works and later works:

1. The Time/Life work is extremely inaccurate for a variety of reasons, which include:

a. Incorrect elevation from street/sidewalk to the window ledge of the sixth floor window.

This inaccurate elevation creates a distance which is factually shorter (rifle to target) than was the true distance, as the elevation of the window ledge (above the concrete). was computed as having been less than it actually was.

b. The "rifle to target" distance was initially calculated in regards to an impact point on Elm St. which was in fact directly below the point at which JFK would have been located.

Later, Mr. West "corrected" for the error in distance to JFK's head, however this correction still had the inherent error of computation for the height of the window ledge above the street and target.

Nevertheless, the Time/Life survey plat (& survey notes) provide critical measurements when these measurements are thereafter carried over onto the SS/FBI Survey Plat.

And, provide even greater accuracy when carried over to the much larger scale WC Survey plat.

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Referring back to the previous article, this would be the entry for the first shot described.

chris

TIME/LIFE

1. The initial rifle to target distance, as incorrectly computed, was 170 feet.

This included an incorrect elevation of the window ledge (60-feet above the sidewalk as opposed to the correct

distance of 60.7 feet) as well as a distance to the point on Elm St. directly below where JFK would have been.

2. Mr. West went back and made corrections to these slightly inaccurate survey calculations and this correction

resulted in a "rifle to target" distance of approximately 174.54 feet.

3. Time/Life did not indicate that the Second Shot struck JFK. Factually, the second point surveyed in was a point

on Elm St. at which they claimed a second shot struck the pavement.

In my personal conversations with Dallas County Surveyor Mr. Robert West (at his home), Mr. West clearly stated

that absolutely no indication of "impact damage" could be found on Elm St. at this second survey point, and in

fact the street as well as all other concrete curbs, etc; were searched and there existed absolutely no

indications of a bullet strike anywhere other than the "Tague" hit area which was not found and surveyed in

until much later.

4. The impact point for the first shot to the head of JFK is marked "K1" on the survey plat.

5. The purported impact point of the second shot impact on Elm St. is marked "P" on the survey plat.

(187 feet slant distance from window to pavement)

6. The impact point of the approximately Z313 impact location is marked "K2" on the survey plat.

And, although the Time/Life Survey Plat (& survey notes) are slightly inaccurate in regards to "rifle-to-target" distances, portions of the survey information are absolutely essential in determination of where the first shot fired struck JFK, as well as the true/original location of the road sign which stood between Zapruder's position and JFK at the time of the first shot.

Tom

P.S. In event one noticed, the Time/Life work also listed a Z313 impact (rifle to target) distance of 260 feet.

The Warren Commission work, which is in many ways the truly most accurate, demonstrates a slope/shooting distance of 265.3 feet.

Therefore, one just may wish to truly question the following:

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0449a.htm

Since the U.S. Secret Service (during their December 1963 survey & re-enactment) as well as the FBI (during their 2/7/64 survey & re-enactment) determined that the third/last/final shot impact to strike JFK was down at survey stationing 4+95 (what was actually surveyed in as well as plotted on both survey plats), and since Mr. West utilized the exact same 0+00 begin stationing point for the SS/FBI survey work as he utilized for the Warren Commission survey work, then one just may want to look farther down Elm St. (as in directly in front of James Altgens location--as he testified to), should they wish to locate the third shot impact point as well as the one and only true "Magic"* bullet.

*The one that created wounds in JFK as well as JBC, and then pulled a "disappearing act".

All of which may not serve to fully illuminate the survey errors of the Time/Life survey plat, but will nevertheless tell everyone exactly where JFK was located at the time that the third/last/final shot struck him in the back of the head.

http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh7/html/WC_Vol7_0285a.htm

Mr. Hudson: "Yes; So right about even with those steps, pretty close to even with this here, the last shot was fired"

(Certainly glad that I never assumed that I was either smarter or more qualified than was the US Secret Service and/or the FBI, to resolve the simple facts of the assassination.)

[Chris Davidson]

Thanks Tom,

Keep it coming!!!

5. The purported impact point of the second shot impact on Elm St. is marked "P" on the survey plat.

(187 feet slant distance from window to pavement)

This would place a shot at approx Zframe 220. Throat shot.

Referring back to the article, 74+48 =122 frames after the throat shot = a shot hits the president's head.

220+122=frame342.

(4+65)=frame313

1 frame per foot=12.25mph

(4+95)=30 ft farther down the road= approx 30 frames

frame 313+30 frames=frame343

The shot near Altgen's? Approx Frame342/343.

chris

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Thanks Tom,

Keep it coming!!!

5. The purported impact point of the second shot impact on Elm St. is marked "P" on the survey plat.

(187 feet slant distance from window to pavement)

This would place a shot at approx Zframe 220. Throat shot.

Referring back to the article, 74+48 =122 frames after the throat shot = a shot hits the president's head.

220+122=frame342.

(4+65)=frame313

1 frame per foot=12.25mph

(4+95)=30 ft farther down the road= approx 30 frames

frame 313+30 frames=frame343

The shot near Altgen's? Approx Frame342/343.

chris

Yes but!

You are attempting to extrapolate Z-frame numbers based on an "assumed" vehicle speed that is in fact inaccurate.

The Presidential Limo most assuredly began to slow down, and especially so just prior to and after the headshot at Z313.

The surveyed in impact location for "K2" on the Time/Life Survey plat is the impact for the Z313 impact location, which of course is completely obvious in the frames of the Zapruder film.

Rifle to target (slant) distance for "K2" on the Time/Life survey was 260 feet, and if you will check the WC then you will find that they have it at 265.3 feet, which is definitively the most accurate.

In fact:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/simmons.htm

Mr. SIMMONS. The marksmen were instructed to take as much time as they desired at the first target, and then to fire--at the first target, being at 175 feet--to then fire at the target emplaced at 240 feet, and then at the one at 265 feet.

Mr. EISENBERG. Can you state where you derived these distances?

Mr. SIMMONS. These distances were the values given on the survey map which were given to us.

Mr. EISENBERG. Are you sure they were not the values I gave to you myself?

Mr. SIMMONS. I stand corrected. These are values--we were informed that the numbers on the survey map were possibly in error. The distances are very close, however.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The "265 feet" given here is from the SS Survey Plat of 12/63., as the actual FBI Survey Plat of 2/7/64 (which now supposedly represents the SS plat of 12/63 (CE585) does not have a slant distance of 265 feet on it.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=14163

Ronald Simmons was given the 265-foot distance as the last shot fired, when in fact the SS Survey Plat as well as the FBI Survey Plat (CE585) demonstrate a slant/slope distance of 294 feet for the last shot fired.

Which by the way happens to be to survey stationing 4+95, which also happens to be directly in front of James Altgens location. Just as he stated.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/altgens.htm

There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing,

I had prefocused in that area, and I had my camera almost to my eye when it happened and that's as far as I got with my camera.

Mr. LIEBELER - You also testified that you were standing perhaps no more than 15 feet away when the President was hit in the head and that you are absolutely certain that there were no shots fired after the President was hit in the head?

Mr. ALTGENS - Yes, sir; that's correct.

Now, you have previously indicated that you were right beside the President's car when he was hit in the head.

Mr. ALTGENS - Well, I was about 15 feet from it.

Mr. LIEBELER - But it was almost directly in front of you as it went down the street; isn't that right?

Mr. ALTGENS - Yes.

(NOTE: Elm St. was 40-feet wide, therefore each lane was slightly in excess of 13-feet wide. JFK was located slightly to the right of center (direction of travel) of the center lane.

Mr. LIEBELER - So, it is clear from your testimony that the third shot--the last shot, rather--hit the President?

Mr. ALTGENS - Well, off and on we have been referring to the third shot and the fourth shot; but actually, it was the last shot, the shot did strike the President and there was no other sound like a shot that was made after that. I was just going to make a conclusion here, but that's not my place to do that, so I'll just forget it--what I was going to say.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Might I now recommend that all of the "Doubting Thomas's" go back and find all of those witnesses who ultimately have stated that the head shot at Z313 was the SECOND SHOT fired.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

This is soooooooooo difficult to figure out!

[Chris Davidson]

Yes but!

You are attempting to extrapolate Z-frame numbers based on an "assumed" vehicle speed that is in fact inaccurate.

The Presidential Limo most assuredly began to slow down, and especially so just prior to and after the headshot at Z313.

Tom,

I Understand.

I tried to create a baseline difference between fact and fiction, pertaining to the newspaper article.

Your exact numbers are a big help.

For instance:

The article says 170ft in the throat.

It's changed to a more exact 175ft.

175ft=frame207 according to the WC.

The purported impact point of the second shot impact on Elm St. is marked "P" on the survey plat. (187 feet slant distance from window to pavement)=frame220 approx according to the WC.

Throat shot =187ft=frame220 refer back to chart.

Difference between newspaper article description and WC version =approx 220-207=13 frames.

Tom, I believe you arrived at frame 354 for the Altgen's shot.

I used a frame per foot formula initially, which is 12.25mph.

This put the final shot at Zfilm 342/343

You apply the limo slow down calculation, as I apply the 13 frame difference.

220+122+13=Frame 355

chris

P.S.

I wonder what confused the reporter?

The Stemmon's sign rears it's ugly head.

Once again, something tells me the reporter was viewing an original.

Edited December 23, 2010 by Chris Davidson

[Kathleen Collins]

In the GIF sequence of Nix, I can clearly see a man shooting Kennedy with a rifle from the grassy knoll. He's above that white thing no one knows what it is. Just as Kennedy was right before him. He doesn't disappear after the head shot. Arrogance! I can also see a figure in the Pergola and by the pycanthia bush. I see a number of figures in the grassy knoll. As for the guy in the front behind that thing, you can see him focus and shoot John Kennedy. I wonder if someone can zoom in on that man.

In the Rickerby photo there is no Stemmons Freeway sign that blocked the shot from the front. In the Bond photo you can see it. These photos were taken at about the same time after the shooting. What happened to the sign?

Kathy C

[Ian Kingsbury]

In the GIF sequence of Nix, I can clearly see a man shooting Kennedy with a rifle from the grassy knoll. He's above that white thing no one knows what it is. Just as Kennedy was right before him. He doesn't disappear after the head shot. Arrogance! I can also see a figure in the Pergola and by the pycanthia bush. I see a number of figures in the grassy knoll. As for the guy in the front behind that thing, you can see him focus and shoot John Kennedy. I wonder if someone can zoom in on that man.

In the Rickerby photo there is no Stemmons Freeway sign that blocked the shot from the front. In the Bond photo you can see it. These photos were taken at about the same time after the shooting. What happened to the sign?

Kathy C

Kathy

I am trying to make sense of this and it appears that Brehm was aware of a shot after the (313) head shot,

BREHM said when the President was hit by the second shot, he could notice the President's hair fly up, and then roll over to his side, as Mrs. KENNEDY was apparently pulling him in that direction.

Altgens seems to fluff his lines when giving his description as well these were probably the closest to the shooting apart from Umbrella man and DCM .

As for your man behind the fence have you seen this great piece of work by Rick Needham

http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,414.0.html

Ian

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Yes but!

You are attempting to extrapolate Z-frame numbers based on an "assumed" vehicle speed that is in fact inaccurate.

The Presidential Limo most assuredly began to slow down, and especially so just prior to and after the headshot at Z313.

Tom,

I Understand.

I tried to create a baseline difference between fact and fiction, pertaining to the newspaper article.

Your exact numbers are a big help.

For instance:

The article says 170ft in the throat.

It's changed to a more exact 175ft.

175ft=frame207 according to the WC.

The purported impact point of the second shot impact on Elm St. is marked "P" on the survey plat. (187 feet slant distance from window to pavement)=frame220 approx according to the WC.

Throat shot =187ft=frame220 refer back to chart.

Difference between newspaper article description and WC version =approx 220-207=13 frames.

Tom, I believe you arrived at frame 354 for the Altgen's shot.

I used a frame per foot formula initially, which is 12.25mph.

This put the final shot at Zfilm 342/343

You apply the limo slow down calculation, as I apply the 13 frame difference.

220+122+13=Frame 355

chris

P.S.

I wonder what confused the reporter?

The Stemmon's sign rears it's ugly head.

Once again, something tells me the reporter was viewing an original.

You now have "A" & "B"

Perhaps you may come to realize their connection to: "C" & "D".

http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z270.jpg

http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=641&fullsize=1

There is most certainly some "common ground" here.