LBJ definitely on the 1964 ticket

[David Josephs]

Excuse me if this was already posted... all I've read here is about the dumping of LBJ and no mention of these statements from Schlesinger.

In Robert Kennedy and His Times, chapter 26 pages 631-632

When the campaign group met, without LBJ, to discuss strategy, the press seems to have jumped to conclusions...

On Oct 22, 1963, the President said to Ben Bradlee that the idea of dumping Johnson was "proposterous on the face ot ir. We've got to carry TX in '64, and maybe Georgia."

'When George Smathers mentioned it: "George, you must be the dumbest man in the world. If I drop Lyndon, it will make it look as if we have a really bad and serious scandal on our hands in the Bobby Baker case, which we haven't and that will reflect on me." The footnote refers to O'Donnel and Powers. "Johnny, We Hardly Knew Ya" 5.

With regards to the Lincoln comments... Arthur alerted RFK from an advance copy of the book, while RFK was skiing... He said again there was never any intention to drop Johnson, addin, "Can you imagine the President ever havin a talk with Evelyn about a subject lilke this?"*

*Author's journal, Feb 10, 1968. The nonexistence of any dump-Johnson plan is fully and emphatically confirmed by Stephen Smith. (Smith was in charge of the campaign)

Seems to me then that the press perpetrated this rumor... and we all know who was running most of the press at that time....

DJ

Edited February 10, 2011 by David Josephs

[Guest Robert Morrow]

Nice post, David Joseph, and I do not mean that sarcastically. It is a good example of the Kennedy people willing to cover up truth in the JFK assassination.

Arthur Schlesinger, Jr. was a member of the heavily Rockefeller-influenced Council on Foreign Relations, which was a club devoted to murdering John Kennedy and covering up the JFK assassination. I am only *half* kidding when I say that. Close to 100% of the members of the CFR who make public statements support the FANTASY of the lone nutter theory.

Schlesinger mentions an October 22, 1962 meeting. The cover of the Nov. 8th issue of LIFE was all about the Bobby Baker scandal (printed and mailed out on Friday Nov. 1st).

http://www.2neatmagazines.com/life/1963cover.html

Robert Kennedy was feeding both LIFE magazine and the Senate Committee investigating the Bobby Baker scandal damaging information on Lyndon Johnson. The Kennedys in November, 1963 were well into the process of politically executing Lyndon Johnson, no matter what that CFR mouthpiece Arthur Schesinger says.

I don't see why JFK would not be talking with Evelyn Lincoln about dropping Lyndon Johnson from the 1964 ticket. Powerful men talk with their secretaries and mistresses on just about everything. Btw at the TOP of Evelyn Lincoln's list of suspects on 11/22/63 as she flew back to Washington, DC was: Lyndon.

http://auctions.alexautographs.com/asp/fullCatalogue.asp?salelot=43+++++++240+&refno=+++68450

The December 6th issue of LIFE was going to be the one that was going to crucify Lyndon Johnson (printed and mailed on Nov. 29th). So LBJ's political health on 11/22/63 was hanging by a thread of a thread and Robert Kennedy had the scissors out ready to slice it. RFK was using the media and the Senate committee investigating Bobby Baker to achieve Lyndon Johnson's political death.

When it comes to JFK truth, you just can't trust Arthur Schlesinger, Jr. (CFR), Ted Sorenson (CFR), Nicholas Katzenbach (CFR) ... those being some Kennedy men in it ... And you can't trust Jack Valenti (CFR) or Bill Moyers (CFR).. Johnson men.

The CFR players reveal JFK truth by mistake, not on purpose. They do bear close watching but what comes out of their mouths should be taken with a pillar of salt; you can learn from them, but it is stuff they do not intentionally know they are revealing.

Not to mention folks like Allen Dulles (CFR), John J. McCloy (CFR), Gerald Ford (CFR), or Nelson Rockefeller (CFR).

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKwagenvoord.htm

According to James Wagenvoord, the magazine was working on an article that would have revealed Johnson's corrupt activities. "Beginning in later summer 1963 the magazine, based upon information fed from Bobby Kennedy and the Justice Department, had been developing a major news break piece concerning Johnson and Bobby Baker. On publication Johnson would have been finished and off the 1964 ticket (reason the material was fed to us) and would probably have been facing prison time. At the time LIFE magazine was arguably the most important general news source in the US. The top management of Time Inc. was closely allied with the USA's various intelligence agencies and we were used after by the Kennedy Justice Department as a conduit to the public."

When it comes to JFK truth, I will take Evelyn Lincoln over CFR James Schlesinger, Jr. any day of the week.

[John Simkin]

With regards to the Lincoln comments... Arthur alerted RFK from an advance copy of the book, while RFK was skiing... He said again there was mever amu intention to drop Johnson, addin, "Can you imagine the President ever havin a talk with Evelyn about a subject lilke this?"

It is true that JFK did not talk politics with most women. (There is that funny story told by Katharine Graham about JFK and his relationship with women that I will post later.) However, this is not true of his relationship with Evelyn Lincoln. Like her husband, she was a committed political activist and was a shrewd political adviser. JFK often talked to her about politics and used this as an opportunity to try out his ideas on her.

[David Lifton]

Excuse me if this was already posted... all I've read here is about the dumping of LBJ and no mention of these statements from Schlesinger.

In Robert Kennedy and His Times, chapter 26 pages 631-632

When the campaign group met, without LBJ, to discuss strategy, the press seems to have jumped to conclusions...

On Oct 22, 1963, the President said to Ben Bradlee that the idea of dumping Johnson was "proposterous on the face ot ir. We've got to carry TX in '64, and maybe Georgia."

'When George Smathers mentioned it: "George, you must be the dumbest man in the world. If I drop Lyndon, it will make it look as if we have a really bad and serious scandal on our hands in the Bobby Baker case, which we haven't and that will reflect on me." The footnote refers to O'Donnel and Powers. "Johnny, We Hardly Knew Ya" 5.

With regards to the Lincoln comments... Arthur alerted RFK from an advance copy of the book, while RFK was skiing... He said again there was mever amu intention to drop Johnson, addin, "Can you imagine the President ever havin a talk with Evelyn about a subject lilke this?"*

*Author's journal, Feb 10, 1968. The nonexistence of any dump-Johnson plan is fully and emphatically confirmed by Stephen Smith. (Smith was in charge of the campaign)

Seems to me then that the press perpetrated this rumor... and we all know who was running most of the press at that time....

DJ

David:

Aside from what the other posters have said, the quote you're citing fails to take into account certain critical context. Specifically: RFK, after much tormented soul searching, jumped into the race and challenged LBJ on March 16, 1968.

Evelyn Lincoln's book, "Kennedy and Johnson," was published on March 4, just 12 days before.

So here we have a situation in which Robert Kennedy--quite tormented, and going through much "will I or won't I?" finally makes the decision and takes the plunge. And then, just as he is deciding to do so, Evelyn Lincoln's book is published, with a number of "inconvenient truths."

So Bobby had to deny it; otherwise, he would appear spiteful and small-minded. He repeatedly made clear, when he entered the race, that he was not running against "the man" but against "the policies," and his speech, within a day or so, at the University of Kansas, is a testament to that.

FYI: Evelyn Lincoln's book ("Kennedy and Johnson") was published on March 4 (1968) by Holt Rhinehart; and the NY Times story about its publication (along with Robert Kennedy's denial) appeared on February 19, 1968 (under the headline: "Secretary Says John Kennedy Talked of Replacing Johnson."

DSL

2/10/11; 4:20 AM PST

Los Angeles, CA

[David Josephs]

Thank you all for your input...

Robert,

I am in agreement with you about the CFR and its influence... yet you don't mention Nixon. During the Ike years what was his relation to the CFR? It seems to me that Nixon was much more involved in the assassination "planning", maybe even moreso than LBJ because of all he was involved in setting up during those years... just my opinion though

It is disappointing to understand that Arthur may not be considered a "reliable" source of information...

so what about his 2 volume book on RFK?

Thanks John,

my problem with the whole Lincoln thing is if indeed JFK did confide in her and was his secretary, a political activist, etc... why does she write such a book at all? I thought people of that time and in those circles had a bit more respect and consideration for the affairs of state. Was it just the money? Her desire to set the record straight?

David L,

Maybe I am not following correctly....

The conversations I am quoting occur in October of 1963 and are directly (supposedly) from JFK and from Stephen Smith. RFK's comments in 1968, denying what EL wrote has little to do with what he is quoted as saying in 1963 as well as the other supporting evidence....

Is Arthur really making this stuff up? O'Donnell? Powers?

I guess I need to cross reference these sentiments with what these other men may have said.. any help there?

Did Bradlee, Smith and Smathers confirm this info?

It does make some sense that JFK would look pretty foolish for not knowing what his VP was doing, or that his administration was by proxy so corrupt... He had fired a number of other people close to him who were doing things behind his back... he took responsibility but dropping the VP would only raise more questions than quiet them - no?

So between what EL writes and what Arthur writes... who do we trust?

I guess it's possible JFK "kept his enemy closer" by spreading rumors he would NOT be dropped to certain people shile those like Evelyn heard the truth???

Back to the books...

DJ

[John Simkin]

In an interview with John Bartlow Martin for the Kennedy Oral History Project on 1st March 1964, Robert Kennedy claims that "the only people who were involved in the discussions (about who should join JFK on the ticket) were Jack and myself. Nobody else was involved in it". "We thought either (Scoop) Jackson or (Stuart) Symington". Robert goes on to say they eventually settled on Symington. Unfortunately, he does not explain why LBJ became the final choice.

[William Kelly]

In an interview with John Bartlow Martin for the Kennedy Oral History Project on 1st March 1964, Robert Kennedy claims that "the only people who were involved in the discussions (about who should join JFK on the ticket) were Jack and myself. Nobody else was involved in it". "We thought either (Scoop) Jackson or (Stuart) Symington". Robert goes on to say they eventually settled on Symington. Unfortunately, he does not explain why LBJ became the final choice.

Bobby was pretty pigheaded. JFK and RFK were the only people involved in the discussion over who should be VP on the ticket when JFK was only talking to Bobby. I'm pretty sure he talked about it with a lot of other people, including his father, Clark Clifford and the Irish Mafia inner-circle, but it is apparent that they went into the convention without a plan and unprepared to deal with that question until it was too late.