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Something Oswald said during the Sunday Morning Interrogation:

"'Yes, I can eat lunch with you,' I told my co-worker, 'but I can't go right now. You go and take the elevator, but send the elevator back up.' ... After all this commotion started, I just went downstairs and started to see what happened. A police office and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told officers that I am one of the employees in the building." (Interrogation, Sun. morn.)

Quote compliments of Jerry Organ.

If Oswald was in the lunch room during the shooting, then what did he mean when he said "After all this commotion started, I just went downstairs and started to see what happened. A police office and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told officers that I am one of the employees in the building."

How could he be in the lunchroom, and yet, "go downstairs" after the "commotion"?

Clearly he is talking about the Truly Baker encounter, but this is after he went downstairs.

So if he was not in the lunch room during the shooting, as this seems to indicate, where was he?

Mike

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Something Oswald said during the Sunday Morning Interrogation:

"'Yes, I can eat lunch with you,' I told my co-worker, 'but I can't go right now. You go and take the elevator, but send the elevator back up.' ... After all this commotion started, I just went downstairs and started to see what happened. A police office and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told officers that I am one of the employees in the building." (Interrogation, Sun. morn.)

Quote compliments of Jerry Organ.

If Oswald was in the lunch room during the shooting, then what did he mean when he said "After all this commotion started, I just went downstairs and started to see what happened. A police office and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told officers that I am one of the employees in the building."

How could he be in the lunchroom, and yet, "go downstairs" after the "commotion"?

Clearly he is talking about the Truly Baker encounter, but this is after he went downstairs.

So if he was not in the lunch room during the shooting, as this seems to indicate, where was he?

Mike

Hey Mike,

I think that you can time the telling of the co-worker to send the elevator back up at around noon, or when they went on lunch break, as Oswald was certainly talking to someone, and that someone recalled the conversation and when it happened in official reports.

As far as going downstairs "after the commotion," I would think that the commotion was a cop pointing a gun at him on the 2nd floor and going down to the first floor afterwards. The sentences are just recounted backwards. At least that's one interpretation of it.

Of course there would be less confusion if the interrogations were recorded or a secretary took notes, but we must rely on the notes of those who were there and their later reports of what was said.

Who is Jerry Organ and what does he have to do with it again?

Thanks,

BK

Edited by William Kelly
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Something Oswald said during the Sunday Morning Interrogation:

"'Yes, I can eat lunch with you,' I told my co-worker, 'but I can't go right now. You go and take the elevator, but send the elevator back up.' ... After all this commotion started, I just went downstairs and started to see what happened. A police office and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told officers that I am one of the employees in the building." (Interrogation, Sun. morn.)

Quote compliments of Jerry Organ.

If Oswald was in the lunch room during the shooting, then what did he mean when he said "After all this commotion started, I just went downstairs and started to see what happened. A police office and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told officers that I am one of the employees in the building."

How could he be in the lunchroom, and yet, "go downstairs" after the "commotion"?

Clearly he is talking about the Truly Baker encounter, but this is after he went downstairs.

So if he was not in the lunch room during the shooting, as this seems to indicate, where was he?

Mike

Hey Mike,

I think that you can time the telling of the co-worker to send the elevator back up at around noon, or when they went on lunch break, as Oswald was certainly talking to someone, and that someone recalled the conversation and when it happened in official reports.

As far as going downstairs "after the commotion," I would think that the commotion was a cop pointing a gun at him on the 2nd floor and going down to the first floor afterwards. The sentences are just recounted backwards. At least that's one interpretation of it.

Of course there would be less confusion if the interrogations were recorded or a secretary took notes, but we must rely on the notes of those who were there and their later reports of what was said.

Who is Jerry Organ and what does he have to do with it again?

Thanks,

BK

Hey Bill,

Man its good to see you again!

Jerry Organ is a poster from another board, who posted this Oswald quote in a thread on Duncans forum.

To me it sounds like he is saying he met the Officer after coming down the stairs. He said he went down stairs after the commotion started, and then, he is saying once he started to see what happened (upon arriving downstairs) the officer "stepped up" and the super identified him.

If the Officer pointing a gun at him had been the cause of his commotion, I think he would have at least told us that the officer pointed a gun at him, and not just said "stepped up".

SO let me ask you Bill, are you in the group that believes he was in the lunch room at the time the shooting started? Im simply trying to get a handle on why some think this way.

Anyhow,

Good to see you again Bill, Hope you have been well!

Mike

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I'm having a bit more trouble with the quote than Bill, Mike....

The use of first person suggests a transcript.. there was none, only notes and after reports as bill mentions.

Then there's the little "..." that is obviously leaving something out.... "Jerry Organ" insisting this is what LHO said in an interrogation requires a bit more than his say so... I think that's fair. I've read some of the followup reports... Postal Inspector Holmes wrote one if I remember correctly. I don't seem to remember 1st person quotes as much as he said this or that in this or that way.

Let's find the record of that quote... k?

http://www.jfklancer.com/Fritzdocs.html

On the last page of Fritz's notes we see - 4th. 11-24 Insp Holmes - Sorrels - Kelley et al

http://www.jfklancer.com/pdf/haappanen-notes.pdf

Interesting article about the notes and lack thereof...

There is no record of Oswald saying these things.... same ole story Mike... conclusions and discussion based on incorrect information leads to ... ???

and finally on this subject... if anyone, after the fact and without a tape or steno, claims Oswald said this or that.... it's going to be very hard to believe.

http://www.jfklancer.com/Holmes.html and you will find this interesting as well...

On the other hand, I believe the Baker/Truly lunchroom scene never happened... or did not happen the way it was later testified to.... another thread another day...

Here are all Fritz's notes transcribed: If someone has a link to the after reports of the interrogation.. I know I've seen them

Transcription of Captain Fritz Notes From

Oswald Interrogations

Friday, November 22-24, 1963

Note: Prepared by Review Board staff to assist the

reader, but not an official transcription

1st 11-22

B.O. + James P. Hosty

Jame W Bookout

3:15 p.m.

Didn't own rifle saw one at Bldg

M. True + 2 others

home by bus changed britches

Ans Hosty adm going to Russia

adm wrighting [sic] Russian

Embassy + to Hosty

says lived Russia 3 yrs.

Does write over then now

school in Ft W. - to Marines

says got usual medals

claims no political belief

belongs Fair Pl

Hdqts NY off N.O.

says supports Castro Rev.

claims 2nd floor Coke when

off came in

to 1st floor had lunch

out with Bill Shelley in

front

lft wk opinion nothing he

done that day etc.

? punch clock

8-4:45 wre not

rigid abt time

wked reg 1st Fl

but all over

speaks Russian

?Why live O.H. Lee

says landlady did that

Terminate interview

with line up

4:15

4 man left to right as #2

Time of filing 11:26 pm Johnson Pres 22nd Precinct 2

F154

Received evidence 1st then filed

2nd Interview 23rd

Present 10:35-11:34

T.J. Kelly Robt Nash

Grant ??

B.O. + myself

Boyd + Hall

Says 11-22-63 rode bus

got trans same out of pocket

says 1 p.o. box denied bringing

package to wk. Denied telling Frazier

purpose of going to Irving - denied

curtain rods - got off bus after seeing

jam got cab etc .85 fare told you wrong before

at apt. Changed shirts + tr. Put in dirty clothes = long sleeve red sh

+ gray tr.

morning 23rd.

says 11-21-63 says two negr came in

one Jr. + short negro - ask ? for lunch says cheese

sandwiches + apple

says doesn't pay cash for wife staying with Mrs. Payne

denies owning rifle in garage or elsewhere admits other

things these

Came there 63 - N.O.

Says no visitors at apt. Claims never order

owns ???? for gun

denies belonging to Com party

says bgt gun 7 mo Ft W. didn't know what Place.

ams to grest ant questioning

Arv. July 62 from U.S.S.R. Int by F.B.I. Ft W

says Hard + Soft meth etc Buddy

says on interview of Payne by F.B.I. He thought she was intimidated

Desires to talk to Mr. Abt. I ask who

says Smith act att.

Says did live N.O. 4706 Magazine St. Frem Apt.

Wked Wm B. Riley Co 640

says nothing against Pres does not want to

talk further - No Pahy at time in past had

refused

Oswald A.C.L.U. member he says says [sic]

Mrs. Payne was too. I ask abt organization

he says to pay lawyer fees when needed

B.O. asks about Heidel selective s. Card - adm having

would not admit signature - wouldn't say

why he had it. Says add. Book has names of Russian

Emigrants he visits - denies shooting Pres says didn't know

Gov. shot

3rd 11-23 - 6:35

Shows photo of gun. Would not discuss photo

denies buying gun from Kleins.

Comp of wanting jacket for line up.

Says I made picture super imposed

arr 10-11:15

4th. 11-24 Insp Holmes - Sorrels - Kelley et al

Chief

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David,

Thanks.

This quote of Oswalds can be found in the Warren Report. Vol XI.

So basically you are contending that these are not admissible, as they are not tape recorded, nor transcribed, basically making them hearsay? In essence questioning the validity of the statements.

Mike

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David,

Thanks.

This quote of Oswalds can be found in the Warren Report. Vol XI.

So basically you are contending that these are not admissible, as they are not tape recorded, nor transcribed, basically making them hearsay? In essence questioning the validity of the statements.

Mike

Hey, I think its admissible if it can be substantiated as something he said as heard by someone in the room, and not Jerry, and I don't remember it. Mae Brussell compiled the best of the Last Words of LHO.

If he did say that he "came down" after the "commotion," I would think he meant he went down to the first floor from the second, after the "commotion" with the cop, even though he places the sequence of events backwards.

If you think he meant he went down to second floor after the "commotion" being him shooting the President - then I don't think he would have stopped for a coke after the "commotion" as that would be a very nonchalante thing to do in the middle of such a "commotion."

"The Last Words Of Lee Harvey Oswald", Compiled by Mae Brussell

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Something Oswald said during the Sunday Morning Interrogation:

"'Yes, I can eat lunch with you,' I told my co-worker, 'but I can't go right now. You go and take the elevator, but send the elevator back up.' ... After all this commotion started, I just went downstairs and started to see what happened. A police office and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told officers that I am one of the employees in the building." (Interrogation, Sun. morn.)

Quote compliments of Jerry Organ.

If Oswald was in the lunch room during the shooting, then what did he mean when he said "After all this commotion started, I just went downstairs and started to see what happened. A police office and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told officers that I am one of the employees in the building."

How could he be in the lunchroom, and yet, "go downstairs" after the "commotion"?

Clearly he is talking about the Truly Baker encounter, but this is after he went downstairs.

So if he was not in the lunch room during the shooting, as this seems to indicate, where was he?

Mike

Mike,

Jerry is playing games using a butchered version of Oswald's last interrogation. It is Homes' summarized to the nth degree with bits of Fritz and Bookhout stiched on.

Holmes is actually a hero for revealing a part of the truth.

From Holmes' interrogation report:

"When asked as to his whereabouts at the time of the shooting, he stated that when lunch time came, and he didn't say which floor he was on, he said one of the Negro employees invited him to eat lunch with him and he stated "You go on down and send the elevator back up and I will join you in a few minutes. Before he could finish whatever he was doing, he stated, the commotion surrounding the assassination took place and he went downstairs, a policeman questioned him as to his identification and his boss stated that, he is one of our employees" whereupon the policemen had him step aside momentarily. Following this, he simply walked out the front door of the building. I don't recall that anyone asked why he left or where or how he went. I presumed that this had been covered in an earlier questioning."

From Holmes' Warren Commission testimony:

Mr. BELIN. Did anyone say anything about Oswald saying anything about his leaving the Texas School Book Depository after the shooting?

Mr. HOLMES. He said, as I remember, actually, in answer to questions there, he mentioned that when lunchtime came, one of the Negro employees asked him if. he would like to sit and each lunch with him, and he said, "Yes, but I can't go right now." He said, "You go and take the elevator on down." No, he said, "You go ahead, but send the elevator back up."

He didn't say up where, and he didn't mention what floor he was on. Nobody seemed to ask him.

You see, I assumed that obvious questions like that had been asked in previous interrogation. So I didn't interrupt too much, but he said, "Send the elevator back up to me."

Then he said when all this commotion started, "I just went on downstairs." And he didn't say whether he took the elevator or not. He said, "I went down, and as I started to go out and see what it was all about, a police officer stopped me just before I got to the front door, and started to ask me some questions, and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told the officers that I am one of the employees of the building, so he told me to step aside for a little bit and we will get to you later. Then I just went on out in the crowd to see what it was all about."

And he wouldn't tell what happened then.

Mr. BELIN. Did he say where he was at the time of the shooting?

Mr. HOLMES. He just said he was still up in the building when the commotion-- he kind of----

Mr. BELIN. Did he gesture with his hands, do you remember?

Mr. HOLMES. He talked with his hands all the time. He was handcuffed, but he was quiet--well, he was not what you call a stoic phlegmatic person. He is very definite with his talk and his eyes and his head, and he goes like that, you see.

Mr. BELIN. Did Oswald say anything about seeing a man with a crewcut in front of the building as he was about to leave it? Do you remember anything about that?

Mr. HOLMES. No.

Mr. BELIN. You don't remember anything about that. Did he say anything about telling a man about going to a pay phone in the building?

Mr. HOLMES. Policeman rushed--I take it back---I don't know whether he said a policeman or not--a man came rushing by and said, "Where's your telephone?"

And the man showed him some kind of credential and I don't know that he identified the credential, so he might not have been a police officer, and said I am so and so, and shoved something at me which I didn't look at and said, "Where is the telephone?"

And I said, "Right there," and just pointed in to the phone, and I went on out.

Mr. BELIN. Did Oswald say why he left the building?

Mr. HOLMES. No; other than just said he talked about this commotion and went out to see what it was about.

Mr. BELIN. Did Oswald say how he got home, if he did get home?

Mr. HOLMES. They didn't--we didn't go into that. I just assumed that they had covered all that. Nobody asked him about from the minute he walked out the door as to what happened to him, except somebody asked him about the shooting of Tippit, and he said, "I don't know what you are talking about."

He said, "The only thing that I am in here for is because I popped a policeman in the nose in a theatre on Jefferson Avenue, which I readily admit I did, because I was protecting myself."

Mr. BELIN. Because he was what?

Mr. HOLMES. "Protecting myself."

and later; this:

Mr. BELIN. By the way, where did this policeman stop him when he was coming down the stairs at the Book Depository on the day of the shooting?

Mr. HOLMES. He said it was in the vestibule.

Mr. BELIN. He said he was in the vestibule?

Mr. HOLMES. Or approaching the door to the vestibule. He was just coming, apparently, and I have never been in there myself. Apparently there is two sets of doors, and he had come out to this front part.

Mr. BELIN. Did he state it was on what floor?

Mr. HOLMES. First floor. The front entrance to the first floor.

Mr. BELIN. Did he say anything about a Coca Cola or anything like that, if you remember?

Mr. HOLMES. Seems like he said he was drinking a Coca Cola, standing there by the Coca Cola machine drinking a Coca Cola.

Mr. BELIN. Anything else?

Mr. HOLMES. Nothing more than what I have already told you on it.

later still:

Mr. BELIN. Now, Mr. Holmes, I wonder if you could try and think if there is anything else that you remember Oswald saying about where he was during the period prior or shortly prior to, and then at the time of the assassination?

Mr. HOLMES. Nothing more than I have already said. If you want me to repeat that?

Mr. BELIN. Go ahead and repeat it.

Mr. HOLMES. See if I say it the same way?

Mr. BELIN. Yes.

Mr. HOLMES. He said when lunchtime came he was working in one of the upper floors with a Negro.

The Negro said, "Come on and let's eat lunch together."

Apparently both of them having a sack lunch. And he said, "You go ahead, send the elevator back up to me and I will come down just as soon as I am finished."

And he didn't say what he was doing. There was a commotion outside, which he later rushed downstairs to go out to see what was going on. He didn't say whether he took the stairs down. He didn't say whether he took the elevator down.

But he went downstairs, and as he went out the front, it seems as though he did have a coke with him, or he stopped at the coke machine, or somebody else was trying to get a coke, but there was a coke involved.

He mentioned something about a coke. But a police officer asked him who he was, and just as he started to identify himself, his superintendent came up and said, "He is one of our men." And the policeman said, "Well, you step aside for a little bit."

Which all fits right in with the earliest newspaper reports:

During the frantic search for the President's killer, police were

posted at exits to the warehouse.

Police said a man, whom they identified as Oswald, walked through the

door of the warehouse and was stopped by a policeman.

Oswald told the policeman that "I work here," and when another employee

confirmed that he did, the policeman let Oswald walk away, they said.

Sydney Morning Herald, Sunday, Nov 24, 1963 (Sydney time)

Oswald was a true genius. He not only knew that two Black workers were on the first floor at the time he was describing, he also knew what police had told reporters and repeated this back to his interrogators as his version of events. That he was psychic surely makes more sense than any of it being true, no?

He wasn't in the 2nd floor lunchroom, except to grab a coke and he was not seen on the second floor by Baker (sorry Bill). His cop encounter was EXACTLY as he told Holmes and as was reported by the Sydney Morning Herald (and no doubt other publications around the world). He was stopped at the entrance and had his details taken – just as everyone else did – except he was the first to go on that list and thus would end up first on Revill's list. This is the very reason Revill had such a memory lapse in naming the officer who gave him that (wrong address) on his list. If he identified the officer, it would make the whole case unravel because it doesn't get Oswald on that damn bus.

There is one part of Holme's version of Oswald's alibi that is in error – but it is ( a ) irrelevant to his exit and ( b ) explicable. It is however, important in it's own right and should be dealt with separately – that issue revolves around where Oswald was when he had the conversation with the Black employee and what floor they were on.

Say hello to Jerry for me.

Edited by Greg Parker
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Something Oswald said during the Sunday Morning Interrogation:

"'Yes, I can eat lunch with you,' I told my co-worker, 'but I can't go right now. You go and take the elevator, but send the elevator back up.' ... After all this commotion started, I just went downstairs and started to see what happened. A police office and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told officers that I am one of the employees in the building." (Interrogation, Sun. morn.)

Quote compliments of Jerry Organ.

If Oswald was in the lunch room during the shooting, then what did he mean when he said "After all this commotion started, I just went downstairs and started to see what happened. A police office and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told officers that I am one of the employees in the building."

How could he be in the lunchroom, and yet, "go downstairs" after the "commotion"?

Clearly he is talking about the Truly Baker encounter, but this is after he went downstairs.

So if he was not in the lunch room during the shooting, as this seems to indicate, where was he?

Mike

Mike,

Jerry is playing games using a butchered version of Oswald's last interrogation. It is Homes' summarized to the nth degree with bits of Fritz and Bookhout stiched on.

Holmes is actually a hero for revealing a part of the truth.

From Holmes' interrogation report:

"When asked as to his whereabouts at the time of the shooting, he stated that when lunch time came, and he didn't say which floor he was on, he said one of the Negro employees invited him to eat lunch with him and he stated "You go on down and send the elevator back up and I will join you in a few minutes. Before he could finish whatever he was doing, he stated, the commotion surrounding the assassination took place and he went downstairs, a policeman questioned him as to his identification and his boss stated that, he is one of our employees" whereupon the policemen had him step aside momentarily. Following this, he simply walked out the front door of the building. I don't recall that anyone asked why he left or where or how he went. I presumed that this had been covered in an earlier questioning."

Mr. BELIN. Did anyone say anything about Oswald saying anything about his leaving the Texas School Book Depository after the shooting?

Mr. HOLMES. He said, as I remember, actually, in answer to questions there, he mentioned that when lunchtime came, one of the Negro employees asked him if. he would like to sit and each lunch with him, and he said, "Yes, but I can't go right now." He said, "You go and take the elevator on down." No, he said, "You go ahead, but send the elevator back up."

He didn't say up where, and he didn't mention what floor he was on. Nobody seemed to ask him.

You see, I assumed that obvious questions like that had been asked in previous interrogation. So I didn't interrupt too much, but he said, "Send the elevator back up to me."

Then he said when all this commotion started, "I just went on downstairs." And he didn't say whether he took the elevator or not. He said, "I went down, and as I started to go out and see what it was all about, a police officer stopped me just before I got to the front door, and started to ask me some questions, and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told the officers that I am one of the employees of the building, so he told me to step aside for a little bit and we will get to you later. Then I just went on out in the crowd to see what it was all about."

And he wouldn't tell what happened then.

Mr. BELIN. Did he say where he was at the time of the shooting?

Mr. HOLMES. He just said he was still up in the building when the commotion-- he kind of----

Mr. BELIN. Did he gesture with his hands, do you remember?

Mr. HOLMES. He talked with his hands all the time. He was handcuffed, but he was quiet--well, he was not what you call a stoic phlegmatic person. He is very definite with his talk and his eyes and his head, and he goes like that, you see.

Mr. BELIN. Did Oswald say anything about seeing a man with a crewcut in front of the building as he was about to leave it? Do you remember anything about that?

Mr. HOLMES. No.

Mr. BELIN. You don't remember anything about that. Did he say anything about telling a man about going to a pay phone in the building?

Mr. HOLMES. Policeman rushed--I take it back---I don't know whether he said a policeman or not--a man came rushing by and said, "Where's your telephone?"

And the man showed him some kind of credential and I don't know that he identified the credential, so he might not have been a police officer, and said I am so and so, and shoved something at me which I didn't look at and said, "Where is the telephone?"

And I said, "Right there," and just pointed in to the phone, and I went on out.

Mr. BELIN. Did Oswald say why he left the building?

Mr. HOLMES. No; other than just said he talked about this commotion and went out to see what it was about.

Mr. BELIN. Did Oswald say how he got home, if he did get home?

Mr. HOLMES. They didn't--we didn't go into that. I just assumed that they had covered all that. Nobody asked him about from the minute he walked out the door as to what happened to him, except somebody asked him about the shooting of Tippit, and he said, "I don't know what you are talking about."

He said, "The only thing that I am in here for is because I popped a policeman in the nose in a theatre on Jefferson Avenue, which I readily admit I did, because I was protecting myself."

Mr. BELIN. Because he was what?

Mr. HOLMES. "Protecting myself."

and later; this:

Mr. BELIN. By the way, where did this policeman stop him when he was coming down the stairs at the Book Depository on the day of the shooting?

Mr. HOLMES. He said it was in the vestibule.

Mr. BELIN. He said he was in the vestibule?

Mr. HOLMES. Or approaching the door to the vestibule. He was just coming, apparently, and I have never been in there myself. Apparently there is two sets of doors, and he had come out to this front part.

Mr. BELIN. Did he state it was on what floor?

Mr. HOLMES. First floor. The front entrance to the first floor.

Mr. BELIN. Did he say anything about a Coca Cola or anything like that, if you remember?

Mr. HOLMES. Seems like he said he was drinking a Coca Cola, standing there by the Coca Cola machine drinking a Coca Cola.

Mr. BELIN. Anything else?

Mr. HOLMES. Nothing more than what I have already told you on it.

later still:

Mr. BELIN. Now, Mr. Holmes, I wonder if you could try and think if there is anything else that you remember Oswald saying about where he was during the period prior or shortly prior to, and then at the time of the assassination?

Mr. HOLMES. Nothing more than I have already said. If you want me to repeat that?

Mr. BELIN. Go ahead and repeat it.

Mr. HOLMES. See if I say it the same way?

Mr. BELIN. Yes.

Mr. HOLMES. He said when lunchtime came he was working in one of the upper floors with a Negro.

The Negro said, "Come on and let's eat lunch together."

Apparently both of them having a sack lunch. And he said, "You go ahead, send the elevator back up to me and I will come down just as soon as I am finished."

And he didn't say what he was doing. There was a commotion outside, which he later rushed downstairs to go out to see what was going on. He didn't say whether he took the stairs down. He didn't say whether he took the elevator down.

But he went downstairs, and as he went out the front, it seems as though he did have a coke with him, or he stopped at the coke machine, or somebody else was trying to get a coke, but there was a coke involved.

He mentioned something about a coke. But a police officer asked him who he was, and just as he started to identify himself, his superintendent came up and said, "He is one of our men." And the policeman said, "Well, you step aside for a little bit."

During the frantic search for the President's killer, police were

posted at exits to the warehouse.

Police said a man, whom they identified as Oswald, walked through the

door of the warehouse and was stopped by a policeman.

Oswald told the policeman that "I work here," and when another employee

confirmed that he did, the policeman let Oswald walk away, they said.

Sydney Morning Herald, Sunday, Nov 24, 1963 (Sydney time)

Oswald was a true genius. He not only knew that two Black workers were on the first floor at the time he was describing, he also knew what police had told reporters and repeated this back to his interrogators as his version of events. That he was psychic surely makes more sense than any of it being true, no?

He wasn't in the 2nd floor lunchroom, except to grab a coke and he was not seen on the second floor by Baker (sorry Bill). His cop encounter was EXACTLY as he told Holmes and as was reported by the Sydney Morning Herald (and no doubt other publications around the world). He was stopped at the entrance and had his details taken – just as everyone else did – except he was the first to go on that list and thus would end up first on Revill's list. This is the very reason Revill had such a memory lapse in naming the officer who gave him that (wrong address) on his list. If he identified the officer, it would make the whole case unravel because it doesn't get Oswald on that damn bus.

There is one part of Holme's version of Oswald's alibi that is in error – but it is ( a ) irrelevant to his exit and ( b ) explicable. It is however, important in it's own right and should be dealt with separately – that issue revolves around where Oswald was when he had the conversation with the Black employee and what floor they were on.

Say hello to Jerry for me.

Thanks for the input guys Ill read this all over.

Mike

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thanks Lee, Greg... knew these reports were out there....

and this even reinforces the thought that the Baker/Truly encounter actually happened between the 3rd and 4th floor as Baker writes and was NOT LHO...

One note... I have heard the the "Everybody will know who I am now" quote was more of a dejected, defeated statement than one of pride and ownership of the assassination or of Tippit's murder. I am sorry for not being able to provide a cource for this... any help out there?

DJ

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Guest Tom Scully

thanks Lee, Greg... knew these reports were out there....

and this even reinforces the thought that the Baker/Truly encounter actually happened between the 3rd and 4th floor as Baker writes and was NOT LHO...

One note... I have heard the the "Everybody will know who I am now" quote was more of a dejected, defeated statement than one of pride and ownership of the assassination or of Tippit's murder. I am sorry for not being able to provide a cource for this... any help out there?

DJ

It was Roger Craig that claimed Oswald said that with almost complete dejection, David.

When the other side vilify, ridicule and hate a man like Roger Craig whilst praising and lauding characters like Will Fritz, Henry Wade and Arlen Specter it certainly shows the paradigms that are at play here.

Why stop with just those names? Consider that, by 1963, Albert Jenner had at least ten years' practice explaining away the conspiracy to commit fraud engaged in by the same folks who pulled Sparky's strings, which was why Tom Clark and Earl Warren picked him for the WC investigation. RFK knew all about it and so did the press, but the details somehow never made it into the official, fairy tale.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=13908&view=findpost&p=187689

http://books.google.com/books?cd=2&q=darling%2C+m+frank+ae+jenner+dorfman%2C+stanford+clinton&btnG=Search+Books

Hearings‎ - Page 83

United States. Congress. House. Committee on Education - 1953

TESTIMONY OF M. FRANK DARLING, PRESIDENT AND BUSINESS MANAGER, LOCAL 1031,

INTERNATIONAL BROTHERHOOD 01 ELECTRICAL WORKERS, CHICAGO, ILL., ACCOMPANIED

BY HIS COUNSEL, ALBERT E. JENNER AND JAMES A. SPRAWL, CHICAGO, ILL.

...Mr. DARLING. Paul, I had already known for some time. I had seen him at federation meetings, Chicago Federation of Labor meetings, from time to time; Allen I had never met to that time. I believe it was in '49.

Mr. MCKENNA. Approximately when in 1949?

Mr. DARLING. That must have been in the early part of '49.

Mr. MCKENNA. The early part of '49?

Mr. DARLING. Yes, in the spring or before spring even.

Mr. MCKENNA. That was before, then, the Dorfmans were licensed as an insurance agency?

Mr. DARLING. I think it is. I'm trying to remember just how long we have had insurance. I think Zy2 years. Would that make it the early part of '49 ?

Mr. JENNER. Yes.

Mr. DARLING. The first company covered by the Union Casualty was in May.

Mr. MCKENNA. May of 1949? (There was no response.)

Mr. MCKENNA. I believe if I can refresh your recollection at all your policy is renewable in May, isn't it ?

Mr. DARLING. That is correct.

Mr. McKENNA. And so it is for annual periods ?

Mr. DARLING. That is correct.

Mr. MCKENNA. So in all probability this was in May of 1949?

Mr. DARLING. I believe it was.

Mr. MCKENNA. Well, now, do you know whether or not at that time the Dorfmans were a licensed insurance agency in Illinois? ....

...Mr. MCKENNA. What was the retention rate at that time of the insurance?

Mr. DARLING. They didn't tell me any retention rate. I wanted the lowest possible rate that I could guarantee to an employer that would not go up for at least a year.

Mr. MCKENNA. The retention rate at that time was 100 percent. is that correct?

Mr. Jenner. Excuse me, I don't think the witness understands the question. Mr. Darling. I don't know what you mean by the question....

....Mr. McKENNA. How do you explain then that in the Central States case a 17%-percent retention figure was granted by Union Casualty? Why did they discriminate against your union?

Mr. DARLING. Mr. McKenna, I couldn't answer that. I know nothing about the Central States.

Mr. MCKENNA. That is, why should they have a 100-percent retention rate in your case and 171/2 percent in Central States ?

Mr. DARIJNG. I couldn't answer that. I know nothing about Central States. I never talked to anybody from Central States.

Mr. MCKENNA. According to the witnesses today 17^2 percent was by far the highest bid in the Central States case, otner bids were around 8 percent. Mr. DARLING. I wouldn't be able to answer that question; I don't know.

Mr. MCKENNA. You can see why we want to get to the facts there. There is a 100-percent retention rate in your case and we are comparing that with what seems to be an extremely large one of 17^ percent in the Central States case against the customarily one of probably 7 percent. Can you explain that for us?

Mr. Darling. Frankly, I have never heard, never even thought about it. I could only hazard a guess, and I am sure you have already thought of that one.

Mr. MCKENNA. What is your guess? ...

http://books.google.com/books?lr=&cd=3&id=rsLeSkMhJRQC&dq=%22quarterbacking%2C+it+was+an+absolute+necessity+that%22&q=hoffa+commissions+dorfman#search_anchor

Investigation of welfare funds and racketeering ... Hearings ... on H.Res ...

By United States. Congress. House. Committee on education and labor 1953 - 502 pages

........Mr. MCKENNA.Is it not true, Mr. Hoffa, that shortly before these dependency benefits were reduced the Union Insurance Agency of Illinois commission was increased by 50 percent ?

Mr. Hoffa. I beg your pardon ?

Mr. MCKENNA. Is it true, Mr. Hoffa, that shortly before this re-duction in employee benefits was put into effect the commission of the of the Union Insurance Agency of Illinois was increased by 50 percent?

Mr. HOFFA. I have no knowledge as to the amount of money it was or was not — the Union Casualty was or was not paying to the Illinois insurance agency. I do not know and cannot answer it.

Mr. MCKENNA. You have never been told that shortly before these reduced benefits were put into effect that the Dorfman commission had been increased by 50 percent?

Mr. HOFFA. Right to this day I do not have full knowledge of even what they are receiving.

Mr. MCKENNA. Willyou answer that question ? Were you then

Mr. HOFFA. Nobody told me. I will answer it direct.

Mr. MCKENNA. Were you aware at that time that had been recently increased by 50 percent?...

...Mr. Hoffa. They do not receive 17% percent.

Mr. McKenna. All the commissions have to come out of the retention figure, do they not ?

Mr. HOFFA. All of the retention comes out of the premium rate that is paid in to the insurance company after claim losses.

Mr. McKenna. And all of the expenses, including all commissions paid by Union Casualty, have to come out of the retention figure; isn't, that correct?

Mr. HOFFA. Whatever is left, yes.

Mr. MCKENNA. And in that retention figure would be the commissions paid to the Dorf mans ? Isn't that correct ?

Mr. HOFFA. I would have no knowledge of that. I don't care to answer for Union Casualty.

Mr. McKENNA. There is no other source of it.

Mr. HOFFA. I don't know how their business operates.

Mr. MCKENNA. It is perfectly logical that is the case.

Mr. Hoffa. I don't believe it, and I want to say this to you, that they have only received one time, to my knowledge, 17% percent, and that is the mystery that is the mystery about this whole thing. Since we have had the dependency coverage with the members Union Casualty has not received in any one year, to the best of my knowledge....

Edited by Tom Scully
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