Was President Kennedy secretly an ASSASSIN?

[J. Raymond Carroll]

Senator Frank Church Of Idaho was a GREAT AMERICAN with lofty ideals and ambitions. Were it not for his untimely death, Frank Church might well have been elected president and --given his outstanding qualities as a moral leader -- possibly a GREAT one.

Frank Church will remain a hero to discerning Americans long after I, and everyone reading these words is/am dead and gone, because Frank Church was A FEARLESS CHAMPION OF TRUTH and Justice, which is the by-product of Truth.

When news of CIA assassination plots became widely known in the mid nineteen-seventies, Frank Church investigated.

Frank Church's investigation bore NO RESEMBLANCE to the CHARADE orchestrated by Lyndon Johnson and Earl Warren. Church turned over every document, every report, and every living witness in his search for truth, with no hidden agenda.

THE Church Committee report is available at maryferrell.org and it is A MONUMENT TO TRUTH & JUSTICE. It shows us the ugliest bottom of human nature in the person of RICHARD HELMS, yet somehow Frank Church's achievement is ALMOST enough to restore faith in the HUMAN RACE.

HERE IS THE LINK:

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?absPageId=147865

In another thread, I said I was surprised and disappointed to read a post by David Lifton accusing JFK of being a murderer. Not only does the charge reflect on JFK's morality as a Christian gentleman, it reflects on his intelligence.

As the Church report reveals, several evaluations by the JFK administration predicted that the death of Castro, even by natural causes, would not help the US interest in keeping communism out of the Carribean. In fact the death of Castro might lead to greater communist control. Moreover, the evaluations predicted, if Castro were to die from other than natural causes the US would immediately be blamed, and the image of the US would be tarnished.

It is CRYSTAL CLEAR from the Church report that John F. Kennedy NEVER authorized assassination.

The key figure throughout is RICHARD HELMS. Helms could not claim that JFK authorized assassination, because there were too many living people around who could prove otherwise. Instead, Helms admitted that he never told his boss JOHN McCONE, or anyone outside CIA. Helms claimed that he believed that he needed no authorization. Richard Helms told the Church Committee, as anyone can see from the link I posted -- that he believed he did not need authorization to order an assassination. He thought it came with his JOB DESCRIPTION!

So when I see the esteemed author of BEST EVIDENCE acting as an apologist for RICHARD HELMS, then I can only hope it is a BAD BAD DREAM!

Edited May 9, 2011 by J. Raymond Carroll

[Guest Robert Morrow]

My current thinking is that Robert Kennedy was ordering the CIA to assassinate Fidel Castro. RFK was probably saying things like get rid of Castro and I don't care how you do it.

Robert Kennedy would have been doing these things at the behest of President John F. Kennedy.

So yes I do think John Kennedy was indirectly authorizing assassinations, with *plausible deniablity* (hated that wretched phrase) on Castro.

Again, that is my current thinking always subject to change. Also, it is not mutually exclusive that at the same time Kennedy was sending out peace feelers to Castro.

The Kennedys could very well have been pursuing a 2-track policy with Cuba: 1) get the CIA to assassinate Castro (with *plausible deniability) and 2) send out peace feelers to Castro in case option one does not succeed.

So, yes, I do think Morton Halperin and Alexander Haig might have a lot of truth to shed on this matter.

There is no doubt the CIA was chafing under Robert Kennedy's management style and to varying degrees did not respect and even hated him.

Edited May 9, 2011 by Robert Morrow

[J. Raymond Carroll]

My current thinking is that Robert Kennedy was ordering the CIA to assassinate Fidel Castro. RFK was probably saying things like get rid of Castro and I don't care how you do it.

You call that THINKING?

I don't think you know the MEANING of the word, from everything I have seen you post on this forum.

Robert Kennedy would have been doing these things at the behest of President John F. Kennedy.

SO SEZ CREEPY Robert Morrow!

S

o yes I do think John Kennedy was indirectly authorizing assassinations, with *plausible deniablity* (hated that wretched phrase) on Castro.

One of the bitter lessons JFK learned at the Bay of Pigs is that PLAUSIBLE DENIABILITY is just a CIA euphemism for LET THE PRESIDENT TAKE THE RESPONSIBILITY!

If you ever learn how to think (which means studying the evidence before you spout your opinions) young fellow, please check in again.

[Guest Robert Morrow]

Really Raymond? So what are the most blatantly incorrect things I have said on the Education Forum? Could you make a list of them and please post them?

I think it would give folks a great insight into who you are.

I am just saying that I agree with David Lifton that at some point in the Kennedy brothers were probably ordering assassinations of Fidel Castro.

Aren't you the one who thinks that CIA general Edward Lansdale was not photographed at TSBD despite the positive identifications of Col. Prouty and Gen. Victor Krulak, two men who worked intimately with Lansdale. And aren't you the one who does not believe that Oswald was U.S. intelligence?

And aren't you the one posting love notes to David von Pein saying he is basically more right than most folks on this board?

One more thing - don't you think you need to improve your posting manners on this forum, perhaps get away from all the continual insults?

Edited May 9, 2011 by Robert Morrow

[J. Raymond Carroll]

I am just saying that I agree with David Lifton that at some point in the Kennedy brothers were probably ordering assassinations of Fidel Castro.

So your opinion is not based on YOUR OWN THINKING but on the thinking of someone else.

OK, I'll buy that, and it does not surprise me.

Aren't you the one who thinks that CIA general Edward Lansdale was not photographed at TSBD despite the positive identifications of Col. Prouty and Gen. Victor Krulak, two men who worked intimately with Lansdale. And aren't you the one who does not believe that Oswald was U.S. intelligence?

You are mixed-up, as usual.

I see Lansdale in a tramp photo, though not the one that Prouty identifies.

And aren't you the one posting love notes to David von Pein saying he is basically more right than most folks on this board?

Bingo! You finally got one right. Yes I believe Von Pein is correct in claiming that Lee Oswald acted alone. Von Pein's problem is that he goes on to make a reasoning error. He MISTAKENLY DEDUCES that Lee Oswald shot JFK and J.D. Tippit.

One more thing - don't you think you need to improve your posting manners on this forum, perhaps get away from all the continual insults?

I have been a member here for more than five years, and have generally tried to behave myself. I was recently severely chastised by the moderators for making insulting remarks towards a certain member named Mr. Blank. Mr. Blank posted a vitriolic diatribe against the family of Lee Oswald, to which I took great exception, since I am a FRIEND OF THE FAMILY.

Apart from that, and possibly similar instances such as your own insults to JFK (I am a friend of that family also), I think you will find that I never insult anyone who does not insult me first.

[Guest Robert Morrow]

Guess what, Mr. Carroll: Lee Harvey Oswald and John Kennedy are not posting members of Education Forum. Therefore they are legitimate "targets" of relevant commentary relating to the JFK assassination. The matters of John Kennedy's over-the-top sexual addiction and Oswald's deep relationship with U.S. intelligence and not just relevant but critical to understanding the 1963 Coup d'Etat.

And aren't you the one suggesting books on logic for people to read and saying they can't think? Most folks can tell the difference between an historical figure and a member of Education Forum.

And aren't YOU the one making nasty attacks on Richard Helms? Richly deserved attacks and frankly you ought step that up a notch. I guess you are not *family friends* with the Helms family, huh?

Edited May 9, 2011 by Robert Morrow

[J. Raymond Carroll]

And aren't YOU the one making nasty attacks on Richard Helms? Richly deserved attacks and frankly you ought step that up a notch. I guess you are not *family friends* with the Helms family, huh?

Bingo, Congratulations young Morrow. You got another one right.

My family does not associate with such characters.

[Michael Hogan]

Yes I believe Von Pein is correct in claiming that Lee Oswald acted alone.

Carroll also told DVP that he "is closer to the truth than most members."

Combine the two above claims into one sentence and you get what Carroll wrote directly to Von Pein. It was not a post.

I doubt that Carroll ever thought what he wrote would see the light of day.

When it did, Carroll began defending and qualifying what he wrote. It's been entertaining watching him do so.

[J. Raymond Carroll]

Carroll also told DVP that he "is closer to the truth than most members."

Combine the two above claims into one sentence and you get what Carroll wrote directly to Von Pein. It was not a post.

I doubt that Carroll ever thought what he wrote would see the light of day.

When it did, Carroll beg

Yes I believe Von Pein is correct in claiming that Lee Oswald acted alone.

an defending and qualifying what he wrote. It's been entertaining watching him do so.

I am not sure what this has to do with the subject of this thread, namely whether JFK was secretly an assassin.

But maybe there is some relevance since Michael Hogan is a WANNABE CHARACTER ASSASSIN.

Like Jim Di Eugenio, Michael Hogan would like to challenge my reputation for honesty and integrity, and pretend that the views I express here are not sincere. I believe Lee Oswald acted alone, just as I did. He didn't kill anyone, and neither did I.

BUt I don't think Mr. Hogan is malicious. He just has trouble understanding. Bill Kelly and other members here HAVE NO SUCH PROBLEM!

[Michael Hogan]

Carroll also told DVP that he "is closer to the truth than most members."

Combine the two above claims into one sentence and you get what Carroll wrote directly to Von Pein. It was not a post.

I doubt that Carroll ever thought what he wrote would see the light of day.

When it did, Carroll beg

Yes I believe Von Pein is correct in claiming that Lee Oswald acted alone.

an defending and qualifying what he wrote. It's been entertaining watching him do so.

I am not sure what this has to do with the subject of this thread, namely whether JFK was secretly an assassin.

But maybe there is some relevance since Michael Hogan is a WANNABE CHARACTER ASSASSIN.

Like Jim Di Eugenio, Michael Hogan would like to challenge my reputation for honesty and integrity, and pretend that the views I express here are not sincere. I believe Lee Oswald acted alone, just as I did. He didn't kill anyone, and neither did I.

BUt I don't think Mr. Hogan is malicious. He just has trouble understanding. Bill Kelly and other members here HAVE NO SUCH PROBLEM!

I don't have any trouble understanding. I just report accurately what Carroll wrote, something he has had trouble doing himself.

I've never put my own interpretation on those words, they speak for themselves.

I can add Carroll's unsupported charge that I am a WANNABE CHARACTER ASSASSIN to the list of labels.

It was Carroll that has called various members a dope-addled ignoramus, a pot-smoker, xxxx, sexual pervert, a JERK, and many other similar

things. One of Carroll's defenses is that other people initiate it, not him.

His other defense in that he is a FRIEND OF THE FAMILY when it comes to the Oswalds and the Kennedys, as if this gives Carroll the right to

vigorously insult those voicing views on these two topics. And on this forum, that's a wide swath.

I don't challenge Carroll's reputation; he has done a good job on his own of establishing one here, as so many other members and moderators have noted.

I report accurately and completely what Carroll has written in the past. He doesn't like it. Any character assassination on Raymond Carroll is SELF-INFLICTED.

I put the last term in CAPS for Carroll's benefit. Maybe it will aid in his comprehension.

[J. Raymond Carroll]

I don't have any trouble understanding. I just report accurately what Carroll wrote, something he has had trouble doing himself.

Ha Ha Michael. I am a more articulate writer than you will ever be, and that's not even boasting! Intelligent members of the forum, like Bill Kelly, have no problem catching my meaning. From reading your posts here, It doesn't bother me that my meaning is BEYOND YOUR KEN!

[J. Raymond Carroll]

I don't have any trouble understanding. I just report accurately what Carroll wrote, something he has had trouble doing himself.

And moderators please note: Mr. Hogan has HIGHJACKED this thread on the character assassination of JFK to continue his own attempts at CHARACTER ASSASSINATION aimed at me!

[David Andrews]

President Kennedy was secretly a NINJA !!! He and brother Bobby - only their blazing eyes visible through their slitted black masks - cut a bloody swath through the Congo under Eisenhower. And every so often during their own White House years - pretending they were off seeing Goldfinger together, or something - they rubber-rafted into Cuba on moonless nights. With Howard Hunt waiting at the tiller, the fearless pair slit the throats of cane-field guards, decapitated harbormasters... That bad-back dodge was the most closely guarded national security secret.

Edited May 15, 2011 by David Andrews

[J. Raymond Carroll]

President Kennedy was secretly a NINJA !!!

[/Quote]

Welcome back Mr. Andrews. This forum badly needs your sense of humor!