New Marguerite Oswald photos up on internet (1907-1981)

[Guest Robert Morrow]

Web link: http://oswald-photos.blogspot.com/2012/09/marguerite-claverie-oswald-1907-1981.html

[David Josephs]

Robert... thanks for this... great pix

Question... MO is supposedly 5'2", according to her pasport... the photos of her at 21 in 1928 with her sister shows she is a good 4 inches taller...

Is/was Lillian Murret 4'10" ??

And how about Eckdahl... Do you know his height? Cuase the woman who married him was 5'7"

And when along the way did she become a nurse? Seems to me it was AFTER 1958.

I could not afford to buy a bed for my grandchild, because I have worked prior to this for nothing. The job that I had quit I was making $25 a week, gentlemen-a 24-hour live-in job. The jobs prior to this I worked for $10 a week, 7 days a week, a live-in job.

Because of Lee's so-called defection, and my accident, the way I was treated, left destitute, without any medical or compensation, I decided to devote my life to humanity, and I became a practical nurse. And I have worked for $5 a week, living in the place.

Now, when they lived in the home on Mercedes Street that he rented, I was employed as an OB, a nurse, in Fort Worth, Tex., at an OB's salary. And that salary, gentlemen, will astonish you. I worked, lived in, for $9 a day, 24 hours duty.

On an OB case I am very busy with the baby all day long because people are coming in and out, giving presents and so on. I have a 10 o'clock feeding for the baby. And it is approximately 11 o'clock before I am through and in bed. The baby is up again at 2 o'clock. It is approximately 3:30 before I am through again with the baby. The baby is up again at 5:30. And it is approximately--then my day starts. I am stressing the point that 1 worked for $9 a day during all that, a $9 a day job. So that is 7 days a week, $63.

Now, this is the first time I have had a nurse's salary, I want you to understand.

As you see, the way I am properly dressed--I don't say I mean to be the height of fashion, but I have before becoming a nurse I was in the business world,

From H&L p101

In the fall of 1947 Georgia's neighbor,

Lucille Hubbard, drove the short, dumpy, heavy-set Marguerite to a house to pick up

some clothes after she got a job as a nurse

Seven years later, in the fall of 1954,

Harvey Oswald lived

in the rear apartment at 2220 Thomas Place and attended Stripling, while his short,

dumpy, heavy-set "caretaker/mother" worked as a nurse. Nine years later, on November

22, 1963, the same woman, the short, dumpy, heavy-set "Marguerite Oswald" im

poster occupied the same rear apartment and still worked as a practical nurse.

Edited May 23, 2017 by David Josephs

[Greg Parker]

Robert... thanks for this... great pix

Question... MO is supposedly 5'2", according to her pasport... the photos of her at 21 in 1928 with her sister shows she is a good 4 inches taller...

Is/was Lillian Murret 4'10" ??

And how about Eckdahl... Do you know his height? Cuase the woman who married him was 5'7"

And when along the way did she become a nurse? Seems to me it was AFTER 1958.

I could not afford to buy a bed for my grandchild, because I have worked prior to this for nothing. The job that I had quit I was making $25 a week, gentlemen-a 24-hour live-in job. The jobs prior to this I worked for $10 a week, 7 days a week, a live-in job.

Because of Lee's so-called defection, and my accident, the way I was treated, left destitute, without any medical or compensation, I decided to devote my life to humanity, and I became a practical nurse. And I have worked for $5 a week, living in the place.

Now, when they lived in the home on Mercedes Street that he rented, I was employed as an OB, a nurse, in Fort Worth, Tex., at an OB's salary. And that salary, gentlemen, will astonish you. I worked, lived in, for $9 a day, 24 hours duty.

On an OB case I am very busy with the baby all day long because people are coming in and out, giving presents and so on. I have a 10 o'clock feeding for the baby. And it is approximately 11 o'clock before I am through and in bed. The baby is up again at 2 o'clock. It is approximately 3:30 before I am through again with the baby. The baby is up again at 5:30. And it is approximately--then my day starts. I am stressing the point that 1 worked for $9 a day during all that, a $9 a day job. So that is 7 days a week, $63.

Now, this is the first time I have had a nurse's salary, I want you to understand.

As you see, the way I am properly dressed--I don't say I mean to be the height of fashion, but I have before becoming a nurse I was in the business world,

From H&L p101

In the fall of 1947 Georgia's neighbor,

Lucille Hubbard, drove the short, dumpy, heavy-set Marguerite to a house to pick up

some clothes after she got a job as a nurse

Seven years later, in the fall of 1954,

Harvey Oswald lived

in the rear apartment at 2220 Thomas Place and attended Stripling, while his short,

dumpy, heavy-set "caretaker/mother" worked as a nurse. Nine years later, on November

22, 1963, the same woman, the short, dumpy, heavy-set "Marguerite Oswald" im

poster occupied the same rear apartment and still worked as a practical nurse.

David, Marguerite is in high heels - her sister is in flats.

Additionally...

Q. Do people really shrink with age? If so, what can be done about it?

Victoria Roberts

RelatedHealth Guide: Aging Changes in the Bones - Muscles - JointsMore Q & A Columns

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• Get Science News From The New York Times »
  

A. People do shrink with age, said Dr. Roger Härtl, chief of spinal surgery atNewYork-Presbyterian Hospital/Weill Cornell Medical Center, but they actually shrink and regain height on a daily basis, as much as three-quarters of an inch. Degeneration with age interferes with the normal process of regaining height, and by 60 a loss of two inches is not uncommon.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/12/science/12qna.html?_r=1

And yes, Jim... people can and do go downhill after a certain age. Genes, health, "letting oneself go", stress can all play a part in that. Additionally, someone may make themselves look younger or older in photos by coloring their hair, wearing making up etc - OR NOT doing those things.

You think Ekdahl was 6' 1"? Okay. Let's say he was... what does that prove? He looks about 6" taller than Marguerite in that photo. That brings her back to 5' 7". Take off another 3" for heels and we're back to 5' 4". That means she shrank one and a half inches by the time her passport (which lists her as 5" 2 and half inches) was issued at age 58 - well within the expected shrinkage due to age.

Lastly, why would "Harvey's" mother call her "son" an agent of the US and refer to the "alleged" defection? Couldn't they have found someone more capable of keeping the cat inside the bag?

This theory never ceases to amaze with how silly it is willing to look.

[Greg Parker]

Finally, if she was so low income, why did she use a housekeeper in NYC for a small apartment?

That is a question that has occurred to me, and I believe I have an answer -- but you're going to have to wait for it...

[Chris Newton]

Jim,

Many years ago (7+), I posted stuff for awhile on the jfklancer site and I had come across a Texas Drivers License for Marguerite O. on ebay. I didn't buy it and I'm now regretting that (it was probably less than $10). I'm not sure if I posted a jpg or a link but there may have been a height listed. I'll try to hunt it down in their forum archives.

[Greg Parker]

I said I thought he was 6' 1", am not sure. He could be taller since I am basing that on Pic's testimony of him being over six feet.

But if he was taller I am sure Greg that you would make the heels taller also.

If he was 6' 4", then were they 7 inch high heels?

The point is we do not know right now his exact height and we do not know how high the heels were.

But I agree that Marguerite sure looks a lot taller than her sister.

And yes people do wither over time, but it is a matter of degree. IF you took a photo of me from say 4 or 6 years ago, I would be different, but not nearly that much.

FInally, by 1963 if you look at the photos of Marguerite next to Marina in the DPD jail, Marina actually looks a bit taller. And since I have stood next to Marina in a casual situation, where she did not have high heels on, I can assure you Marina is probably no more than 5' 2".

Jim, you're projecting by predicting I will do exactly what you have just done - change the goal posts. I estimated her heels to be 3". Your response? He could be 6' 4".

All John Pic said was "I think he was over 6 feet." So in fact, he could have been 5' 11" just as easily as 6' 1". What I strongly doubt is that he was 6' 4" because that is tall enough to be POSITIVE he was over 6'. Funny how 6' 1" fits with common sense and science (i.e. heels and later shrinkage)...

As for Marina and Marguerite standing side by side and Marguerite looking up to Marina... it is simply absurd to say that this proves that Marina was taller. Marguerite appears to be leaning forward and that is exacerbated by the camera angle

Here is another photo of them which better shows their relative height.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Greg Parker

[Greg Parker]

But I agree that Marguerite sure looks a lot taller than her sister.

How did I miss this?

Of course you agree with David, Jim.

But I'll continue to agree with reality. Since you seemed to have missed my reply to David, do yourself a favor and look a bit more closely at the photo. Marguerite is in high heels and her sister is in flats. Let me know if this is not what you see.

Marguerite in high heels and Lilian in flats

[Greg Parker]

Do I have this right?

Armstrong's theory has it that the "fake" Marguerite was under 5' 1" in 1963 (5' 1" being the height given for Marina in most of the internet chat about this photo), but then grew to be 5' 2 1/2" by 1965 when her passport was issued.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Greg Parker

[Roger Fong]

Marguerite had six siblings, 3 sons, 3 daughters-in-law, and about 10 grandchildren. That's a lot of people who have to keep a secret. If there were two versions of my sister, my mother, or my grandmother, I think it's very likely that I would know about it.

LHO is a different story. He was away from the U.S. for many years and he was very conveniently murdered on November 24, 1963. He may very well be the patsy he claimed to be, and perhaps more. And James Douglass makes a very convincing case for this.

[David Josephs]

Do I have this right?

Armstrong's theory has it that the "fake" Marguerite was under 5' 1" in 1963 (5' 1" being the height given for Marina in most of the internet chat about this photo), but then grew to be 5' 2 1/2" by 1965 when her passport was issued.

No Greg, you don't.

Armstrong and others are saying the 5'7" woman who was LEE's mother is not the same as the 5'2" caretaken of HARVEY.

There are other photos of the sisters together and sorry, those are not flats that Lillian is wearing... the bend in the ankle would be straight, not angled down for say 1-2" heals versus the2-3 heels MO is wearing....

Basically the retail sales lady who was never a nurse a day in her life becomes a nurse

just like LEE who never studied a day of Russian in his life, suddenly is not only fluent, but extremely fluent in reading, writing, speaking and understadning one of the toughest languages in the world.

Let me ask you a question Robert asked me today... who in the world keeps W-2 forms (from 7-8 years ago from the age of 15/16) with him as he moves around the country, goes into the marines, halfway around the world and back... yet when needed to prove he worked at Pfiester in 55... his W-2's are "found" to be among his possessions although not listed on a single inventory of items taken from him from any location?

and the FACT that when over laid, the address is in the identical location on differently laid out forms...

DJ

Edited October 5, 2012 by David Josephs

[Greg Parker]

Do I have this right?

Armstrong's theory has it that the "fake" Marguerite was under 5' 1" in 1963 (5' 1" being the height given for Marina in most of the internet chat about this photo), but then grew to be 5' 2 1/2" by 1965 when her passport was issued.

No Greg, you don't.

Armstrong and others are saying the 5'7" woman who was LEE's mother is not the same as the 5'2" caretaken of HARVEY.

There are other photos of the sisters together and sorry, those are not flats that Lillian is wearing... the bend in the ankle would be straight, not angled down for say 1-2" heals versus the2-3 heels MO is wearing....

Basically the retail sales lady who was never a nurse a day in her life becomes a nurse

just like LEE who never studied a day of Russian in his life, suddenly is not only fluent, but extremely fluent in reading, writing, speaking and understadning one of the toughest languages in the world.

Let me ask you a question Robert asked me today... who in the world keeps W-2 forms (from 7-8 years ago from the age of 15/16) with him as he moves around the country, goes into the marines, halfway around the world and back... yet when needed to prove he worked at Pfiester in 55... his W-2's are "found" to be among his possessions although not listed on a single inventory of items taken from him from any location?

and the FACT that when over laid, the address is in the identical location on differently laid out forms...

DJ

David,

Given that In Armstrong's world, all measurements ever taken of the Oswalds are true and correct, let's, for the sake of argument, ignore the fact that I dispute some of those measurements, and count how many Marguerites there must have been.

1. You have your 5' 7" model Marguerite circa '45 in photo with Ekdahl (pre middle-age spread).

2. You have your 5' 4" model Marguerite circa '53 per Armstrong enlisted witnesses.

3. You have your less than 5" 1" model Marguerite per Nov 22, 1963 DPD photo.

4. You have your 5' 2 1/2" model per Marguerite's 1965 passport.

-------------------------

But back to reality. My wife agrees with you about Lilian's heels - she called them "quart shoes" which do have a heel, but smaller than Marguerite's. The problem is, either way, it's meaningless without knowing how tall Lilian is supposed to be and either way, the heel size does make a difference.

There are a number of places on the web where Jim's DPD photo of Marguerite and Marina has been put forward as evidence that Marguerite circa '63 was way too short (under Marina's 5' 1") to be the Marguerite seen in the 1945 photo. Why has no one ever produced the photo I posted? I do not believe that it was not known about. The whole things smacks of a deliberate falsity being peddled to support this dog's breakfast of a theory.

What those same people have been genuinely ignorant of (as was I) was the passport information from 1965 showing her as 5' 21/2". The real Marguerite was NEVER 5' 7". She was 5' 4" and shrunk 1 1/2 inches with age.

And maybe you can tell me, since no one else wants to answer - why they used a fake Marguerite who couldn't keep her mouth shut about her son "the government agent"? Presumably whoever hired her, was quietly and quickly disposed of for this monumental cockup...

Who is "Robert"?

[Greg Parker]

Do I have this right?

Armstrong's theory has it that the "fake" Marguerite was under 5' 1" in 1963 (5' 1" being the height given for Marina in most of the internet chat about this photo), but then grew to be 5' 2 1/2" by 1965 when her passport was issued.

No Greg, you don't.

Armstrong and others are saying the 5'7" woman who was LEE's mother is not the same as the 5'2" caretaken of HARVEY.

She wasn't 5' 7" David. That is based on two assumptions - one incorrect and one unknown. The incorrect one is that she is not wearing heels. The unknown one is the real height for Ekdahl.

There are other photos of the sisters together and sorry, those are not flats that Lillian is wearing... the bend in the ankle would be straight, not angled down for say 1-2" heals versus the2-3 heels MO is wearing....

See my previous post.

Why the lack of interest in the DPD Marguerite and Marina photo... you know... the one that "proved" Marguerite was shorter than the 5' 1" Marina?

Basically the retail sales lady who was never a nurse a day in her life becomes a nurse

No, David. She became a PRACTICAL nurse. Big Difference. Mostly employed as carers for the elderly and infirm. You may not be aware, but Earlene Roberts described what she did as "practical nursing":

Mrs. ROBERTS. Well, until he passed away---I didn't work for I didn't have to. He made me a good living, but since that time I have been---well, just, I guess you would call it practical nursing or housekeeping and now I am with an elderly couple---he has cancer---the same kind that Sam Rayburn had and he's taken with leukemia.

The only issue here worthy of any consideration is whether or not she received any training and whether she was licensed.

Some history on the profession http://www.lpntraining.org/the-history-of-practical-nursing.html

just like LEE who never studied a day of Russian in his life, suddenly is not only fluent, but extremely fluent in reading, writing, speaking and understadning one of the toughest languages in the world.

People with Asperger's talking about learning other languages

I'm an aspie who loves learning foreign languages and I pick them up very quickly, both written and verbal. In the past I've had foreign languages as obsessive special interests.

---------------------

i didnt have a problem with learning a second language (or the third and fourth, for that matter), and i am able to swithc seamlessly between my primary and secondary language, it actually feels more like a double primary to me.

----------------------

I pick up grammar and syntax very, very quickly. Expanding upon the vocabulary takes some time, but is not difficult. I know 4 currently, and enough of another half dozen to communicate basic ideas. Reading is always easiest, and my reading comprehension is decent even in languages I have not studied extensively.

----------------------

I picked up French, German and Italian very quickly.

I was top of my class in French and German (also Maths) and almost bottom of my class in English!

- I learned Italian during a 3 week vacation to Italy, aged 19.

- I noticed the grammar structure was almost identical to French and much of the vocabulary

- There was also an Italian girl involved

My oh so sympathetic teachers described me as having a comprehension of nil (although it was a reasonably factual statement)

- But no one seemed to notice the imbalance of being exceptional in foreign languages and very weak in my native language, except me!

- It was the 60s, aka the Jurassic Period!

---------------------

I learned Spanish as a second language and I was a toddler. So there's nothing special about it.

I'm better at writing and reading......Listening is good, speaking is fluent.....nothing to complain about.

Now, English as a third language. I learned it pretty fast and better than most of my peers. I was called the human lexicon since I knew so much words. I am good at reading, I understand nearly everything unless it's highly technical language. I also understand people talking English just as well although very casual speaking or people with some kind of strong accent make it harder for me to understand. Writing is ....well...good...I guess. And talking is okay....

I also learned Latin. Again much faster than most and my reading comprehension was at such levels that my teachers thought I was gifted or something. But it was Latin...it's almost like Spanish and some words sound like German or English,too.....I guess, I'm good at connecting dots when it comes to languages.

Italian.....almost the same but not quiet. I understand it fairly well but I understand texts much much better than people talking. My reading comprehension is far above my speech and listening comprehension skills. The same goes for French and Portuguese. I couldn't express myself well ...or let's say barely....(no matter if it's writing or talking) but I can understand texts most of the time. Listening...well it's okay but it could be way better.

Japanese....mhmm...that's a tough one. I find its grammar to be understandable and words are not that hard to remember. But....writing and reading......I can write and read hiragana and katakana but only around 200 Kanjis. That's almost nothing. Listening....well, it's okay for my level. But unlike with the other languages I can't pick it up quickly. Although I'm mostly one of the best when it comes to exams and homework, it's not enough for my liking compared to other languages. Then again, the first levels of Japanese I've taught myself autodidactically.

Polish.....I'm just beginning to learn Polish but it's going well. I can read and understand it okay. Much much better than listening to someone talking or talking myself. But I'll wait till I've learned more to judge it correctly.

--------------------

I think it depends on the person. Aspies and NTs both have the potential to be good or bad at something. You can't generalise and say "all Aspies are good at languages" or "all NTs are bad at maths."

However, what you can say is that if an Aspie takes an interest in learning a language, they will probably obsess about it and learn it to an extremely high standard. I did, and so did quite a few others on here, I believe.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt196606.html

People with Asperger's talking about the acquisition of an accent:

I have Asperger's Syndrome (AS). I also have this odd accent on my voice that no one who hears it can identify it. Does anyone else on here with Aspergers, or another form of High functioning Autism, get told they have an accent that is seemingly unidentifiable while their parents have none?

Just wondering if this is a side effect of AS or if Im just special.

----------------------

Well I have a friend (online, never met in real life, but I've heard him speak) who has AS and he has a very distinctive voice. I'm not sure if I'd call it an accent. He enunciates very strongly/clearly, more so than most people, and his voice is very monotonous, but if I had to describe his accent I'd say it's a very mild southern US accent. I have no idea what his parents' accents are like.

-----------------------

I have AS and I do the same thing. I seem to pick up bits and pieces of accents from people I meet. The mixture comes out kind of strange. I get asked all the time where I'm from, and I live in the same town I was born in.

----------------------

I'm an Australian, but because of the way Aspergers makes me speak, people always mistake me for an American! For you Americans reading and unaware of your accent (one tank once said Americans don't have accents!) you, typically - you yourselves know how it varies state to state - speak in a slow drawl, overly enunciating words. That's pretty much a common way to speak as an Asperger. Australians, unlike what you've seen in the movies, speak fast, abbreviate, half-pronounce and constantly use verbal shortcuts.

I hate it when I'm asked what part of America I am from!

----------------------

When you said tank, did you mean yank? I guess the people that have boston accents can claim that others that pronounce their Rs, etc... have accents, etc..., or non Americans could say our pronounciation of SCH is an accent.

I have sometimes said things in a way that it sounds like I have another accent, but certainly not consistantly. There are, supposedly, syndromes, or whatever, that cause people to consistantly do so. [GP: yes there are including one called "Foreign Accent Syndrome". These types of syndromes can form part of a "main" syndrome such as Asperger's]

-----------------------

As a child, people told me that I spoke too fast. I speak at a normal rate, if you ask me.

My accent is always changing and coming out in weird ways on random words. I'm English but someone once asked me if I was from Canada. I've never been there. I didn't even know what the Canadian accent sounded like at the time. I find it easy to fall into accents if I spend enough time around it, but I can't put on accents when I'm purposely trying to.

------------------------

No accent here... but I'm Canadian and I know a guy, likely AS/HFA, who's lived here all his life and he tends to talk with a southern-US accent - much like what you'd hear on something like the Andy Griffith show.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt75603.html

It is a real syndrome which affects real people. Most people recognize Oswald had a condition of some sort and Asperger's explains his foreign language ability and his occasional "funny" accent. It explains why, as a 15 year old, he memorized the Marine Manual. It explains why he had trouble looking people in the eye; his curious half smile, his sometimes awkward posture. It even explains his stance on social issues, his poor handwriting, his tendency toward occasional solitude and so many other things.

http://www.tonyattwood.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=62&Itemid=176

Let me ask you a question Robert asked me today... who in the world keeps W-2 forms (from 7-8 years ago from the age of 15/16) with him as he moves around the country, goes into the marines, halfway around the world and back... yet when needed to prove he worked at Pfiester in 55... his W-2's are "found" to be among his possessions although not listed on a single inventory of items taken from him from any location?

This is what you are reduced to. Sorry David. It's not good enough to prop up a theory.

and the FACT that when over laid, the address is in the identical location on differently laid out forms...

Sorry again, but until I see it, I don't believe it. Not when it comes to anything pertaining to "Harvey and Lee"

DJ

[Steven Gaal]

It is a real syndrome which affects real people. Most people recognize Oswald had a condition of some sort and Asperger's explains his foreign language ability and his occasional "funny" accent. It explains why, as a 15 year old, he memorized the Marine Manual. It explains why he had trouble looking people in the eye; his curious half smile, his sometimes awkward posture. It even explains his stance on social issues, his poor handwriting, his tendency toward occasional solitude and so many other things.

http://www.tonyattwo...d=62&Itemid=176

######################################

Oh, he isnt a Intell Asset.Hes the LONE ASPERGER GUNMAN......

ASPERGER'S DISORDER: A POSSIBLE EXPLANATION FOR BEHAVIOR

OF SUBGROUP OF SERIAL KILLERS?

A series of papers by J. Arturo Silva and colleagues suggests that some serial killers—including Jeffrey Dahmer and Theodore Kaczynski (the "Unabomber")—exhibit evidence of Asperger's disorder (AD), a variant of autism.

Autism is a neurological disorder that severely affects communication, social skills, behavior, and learning. Individuals with AD are far less impaired mentally and socially than other autistic individuals, and often are highly intelligent. Unlike people with autism, individuals with AD exhibit normal language development, although their speech tends to be somewhat eccentric. While very few people with AD are violent, studies do suggest that the prevalence of AD may be elevated in violent criminal populations.

Silva et al. say that Dahmer, convicted of serially killing and cannibalizing young boys, exhibited signs of AD from his earliest years. As a child, he exhibited poor eye contact, displayed facial expressions "devoid of emotional glow," had a rigid body posture and gait, and was isolated, socially inept, and "emotionally disconnected." He also strongly disliked change and was highly ritualistic and obsessive (with his obsessions including the collection of bones and dead animal bodies). All of these traits can be signs of AD.

Silver et al. argue that Dahmer's creation, collection, and utilization of cadavers can be viewed as "a sexualized form of the repetitive behavioral patterns typically encountered in AD." Dahmer's treatment of his victims, they say, is consistent with the fact that individuals with AD have trouble both in "theory of mind" (the understanding that other people have thoughts and feelings) and in distinguishing between people and objects.

Similar patterns, Silva and colleagues say, appear in the history of Kaczynski, who killed three people and wounded dozens by sending them mail bombs. Silva et al. note that Kaczynski was aloof and could not understand the feelings of others. He also exhibited an aversion to being touched and experienced extreme distress when exposed to noise, both common reactions in children with autism. A neighbor described the young Kaczynski as "a child who was an old man before his time," consistent with Hans Asperger's description of his young patients with AD as "little professors," and as an adult, Kaczynski was extremely impaired in social relationships. Kaczynski's preoccupations with bomb-making and the perceived evils of technology, the authors say, can be viewed as typical of the obsessive interests of a person with AD.

Silva et al. say their characterization of a subset of serial killers as having high-functioning autism could lead to a greater understanding of the etiology of both serial homicide and autism. "Psychological phenomena of central importance to understanding serial killers such as deficits in empathy have frequently been explained as originating from a psychopathic core," they say, "thereby missing the possibility that deficits in empathy may also be due to autistic psychopathology."

-----

"A neuropsychiatric developmental model of serial homicidal behavior," J. Arturo Silva, Gregory B. Leong, and Michelle M. Ferrari, Behavioral Sciences and the Law, Vol. 22, 2004, 787-99; and "The case of Jeffrey Dahmer: Sexual serial homicide from a neuropsychiatric developmental perspective," J. Arturo Silva, Michelle M. Ferrari, and Gregory B. Leong, Journal of Forensic Sciences, Vol. 47, No. 6, 2002, 1-13; and "Asperger's disorder and the origins of the Unabomber," J. Arturo Silva, Michelle M. Ferrari, and Gregory B. Leong, American Journal of Forensic Psychiatry, Vol. 24, No. 2, 2003, 5-43. Address for all: J. Arturo Silva, P.O. Box 20928, San Jose, CA 95160, silvapsychcorp@earthlink.net.

[David Josephs]

Let me ask you a question Robert asked me today... who in the world keeps W-2 forms (from 7-8 years ago from the age of 15/16) with him as he moves around the country, goes into the marines, halfway around the world and back... yet when needed to prove he worked at Pfiester in 55... his W-2's are "found" to be among his possessions although not listed on a single inventory of items taken from him from any location?

This is what you are reduced to. Sorry David. It's not good enough to prop up a theory.

So sorry you feel that way Greg... did you happen to find where they listed finding his W-2's in the DPD inventories from 11/22 or 23?

(note: I am going thru the Dallas Archives to retrieve every piece of evidence related to the collection of Oswald's possessions... from John's work we find that the W-2s came back from the FBI... just not sure if they were ever sent to them)

I have another point though... we are both aware that the FBI took a couple hundred items that night... and that these items ALL had DPD intitials on them....

Yet when returned for the "official" taking of the evidence on the 26th, there was over twice as much with all those NOT taken from Dallas WITHOUT DPD initials....

Even if the FBI only really took half the items - the remaining would have been inventoried and initialed in Dallas... Except maybe they DID take all the items??

Mr. EISENBERG. Do you know why Exhibit No. 820 was not reprocessed or desilvered?

(DULLES CROSSES OUT ACTUAL TESTIMONY AND REPLACES IT WITH HIS OWN ANSWER)

Mr. CADIGAN. No, this is a latent fingerprint matter.

Do we understand that ALLEN DULLES SIMPLY WROTE IN CADIGAN'S RESPONSE and THAT'S HOW IT WAS PRINTED IN THE REPORT?

Can you tell us Greg, how many other bits of testimony were summariuly changed to suit the Commissioner's purposes... wasn't Dulles at more WC sessions than anyone else?

There was insuffieienct time, with the resources of the FBI in DC, to fingerprint and de-silver the LARGE VOLUME of evidence... does that sound like a couple hundred or almost 500?

Any reason you can think of for Dulles not to want to publish that the FBI had the evidence, ALL THE EVIDENCE, that weekend?

Back to Oswald's W-2s

The ONLY initials on the W-2's are "168RF"... Robert Frazier and those are on the BACK of the COPIES of the W-2s.

You'll be able to show us a Chain of Custody for these W-2's - right?

You know like all the other COC's that are so reliable like CE399 and those shells POE marked that disappeared.

I'm terribly sorry that a little critical thinking is outside the box for your Greg... I simply asked a question....

Does it sound logical to you that a 16-19 year old who then travels the world would YEARS LATER still have the W-2's from part time jobs from which he already - supposedly - filed returns for?

And if you are convinced this is possible and likely... prove they were found in Oswlad's possessions..

Thanks

DJ

Edited March 8, 2017 by David Josephs

[Greg Parker]

It is a real syndrome which affects real people. Most people recognize Oswald had a condition of some sort and Asperger's explains his foreign language ability and his occasional "funny" accent. It explains why, as a 15 year old, he memorized the Marine Manual. It explains why he had trouble looking people in the eye; his curious half smile, his sometimes awkward posture. It even explains his stance on social issues, his poor handwriting, his tendency toward occasional solitude and so many other things.

http://www.tonyattwo...d=62&Itemid=176

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Oh, he isnt a Intell Asset.Hes the LONE ASPERGER GUNMAN......

ASPERGER'S DISORDER: A POSSIBLE EXPLANATION FOR BEHAVIOR

OF SUBGROUP OF SERIAL KILLERS?

A series of papers by J. Arturo Silva and colleagues suggests that some serial killers—including Jeffrey Dahmer and Theodore Kaczynski (the "Unabomber")—exhibit evidence of Asperger's disorder (AD), a variant of autism.

Autism is a neurological disorder that severely affects communication, social skills, behavior, and learning. Individuals with AD are far less impaired mentally and socially than other autistic individuals, and often are highly intelligent. Unlike people with autism, individuals with AD exhibit normal language development, although their speech tends to be somewhat eccentric. While very few people with AD are violent, studies do suggest that the prevalence of AD may be elevated in violent criminal populations.

Silva et al. say that Dahmer, convicted of serially killing and cannibalizing young boys, exhibited signs of AD from his earliest years. As a child, he exhibited poor eye contact, displayed facial expressions "devoid of emotional glow," had a rigid body posture and gait, and was isolated, socially inept, and "emotionally disconnected." He also strongly disliked change and was highly ritualistic and obsessive (with his obsessions including the collection of bones and dead animal bodies). All of these traits can be signs of AD.

Silver et al. argue that Dahmer's creation, collection, and utilization of cadavers can be viewed as "a sexualized form of the repetitive behavioral patterns typically encountered in AD." Dahmer's treatment of his victims, they say, is consistent with the fact that individuals with AD have trouble both in "theory of mind" (the understanding that other people have thoughts and feelings) and in distinguishing between people and objects.

Similar patterns, Silva and colleagues say, appear in the history of Kaczynski, who killed three people and wounded dozens by sending them mail bombs. Silva et al. note that Kaczynski was aloof and could not understand the feelings of others. He also exhibited an aversion to being touched and experienced extreme distress when exposed to noise, both common reactions in children with autism. A neighbor described the young Kaczynski as "a child who was an old man before his time," consistent with Hans Asperger's description of his young patients with AD as "little professors," and as an adult, Kaczynski was extremely impaired in social relationships. Kaczynski's preoccupations with bomb-making and the perceived evils of technology, the authors say, can be viewed as typical of the obsessive interests of a person with AD.

Silva et al. say their characterization of a subset of serial killers as having high-functioning autism could lead to a greater understanding of the etiology of both serial homicide and autism. "Psychological phenomena of central importance to understanding serial killers such as deficits in empathy have frequently been explained as originating from a psychopathic core," they say, "thereby missing the possibility that deficits in empathy may also be due to autistic psychopathology."

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"A neuropsychiatric developmental model of serial homicidal behavior," J. Arturo Silva, Gregory B. Leong, and Michelle M. Ferrari, Behavioral Sciences and the Law, Vol. 22, 2004, 787-99; and "The case of Jeffrey Dahmer: Sexual serial homicide from a neuropsychiatric developmental perspective," J. Arturo Silva, Michelle M. Ferrari, and Gregory B. Leong, Journal of Forensic Sciences, Vol. 47, No. 6, 2002, 1-13; and "Asperger's disorder and the origins of the Unabomber," J. Arturo Silva, Michelle M. Ferrari, and Gregory B. Leong, American Journal of Forensic Psychiatry, Vol. 24, No. 2, 2003, 5-43. Address for all: J. Arturo Silva, P.O. Box 20928, San Jose, CA 95160, silvapsychcorp@earthlink.net.

Neither Dahmer nor Kaczynski were diagnosed with any spectrum disorder despite extensive psychological testing after arrest. Moreover, there is a fundamental difference in ability to empathize between ASD and psychopathy. In the latter, the ability to empathize is totally absent - in the former, it is not - it's just difficult to identify and interpret. Sorry if the difference is too subtle... but there it is. I would also point out that even if these two killers did have Asperger's... so what? That would only point to Asperger's being very much under-represented among the serial killer population.

And then there is also the theory that Kaczynski was MKUltra.

Which segues into wondering why you seem to think Asperger's rules out use as an agent... especially when it could not be diagnosed in the 1950s because it was not recognized in the US?

I would say someone who can quickly learn languages, is extremely focused on areas of interest, who can be relatively deadpan in facial and verbal expression giving nothing away, has phenomenal memory (say for example, the ability to memorize the entire Marine Manual and certain facets of law - military and civilian) would make a great agent in certain situations especially when they also tend to be "immune" to hypnosis, so someone with Asperger's could not be "turned" by those clever Ruskies using this method. Lastly, the social awkwardness and other quirks would make the Ruskies discount such a person as a possible agent.

Specific to LHO - think about this too; his sole civilian occupation was as "courier/messenger". How does that match up with radar operator? It doesn't. But if he was destined for a trip to Russia...

Edited October 6, 2012 by Greg Parker