Newseum displays "Oswald's shirt": Proof that he was Doorman!

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

There are a lot of garbage posts from Lamson and Graves, which ignore the entire article,

which demonstrates the similarities between the Oswald shirt, the Newseum shirt and the

Doorman shirt. They are remarkably similar. Lamson loves to make sweeping denials that

that he cannot support. He counts on readers who are careless to be taken in. His m.o.

Graves has become the new shill on the block. OF COURSE, the FACES are ambiguous.

That was the reason why Cinque's suggestion that the SHIRTS are the key was such an

important--even revolutionary--observation. We know what Billy did. We know he was

wearing a short sleeved shirt. We know Checkered Shirt Man's was buttoned to the top.

Someone like Burnham STILL REFUSES TO ANSWER MY SIMPLE QUESTIONS:

(1) Is Doorman wearing a short-sleeved shirt?

(2) Is Doorman's shirt buttoned up to the top?

And the reason is obvious. If Doorman was not wearing a short-sleeved shirt

and it it was not buttoned up to the top, then the only alternative candidates

have been excluded and the only candidate for Doorman is Oswald. But he

would be embarrassed to admit he was wrong and I am right. So he would

rather remain silent than confirm a discovery that blows the cover-up in the

assassination of JFK completely out of the water. And that is a disgrace!

Edited March 4, 2013 by James H. Fetzer

[Len Colby]

Someone like Burnham STILL REFUSES TO ANSWER MY SIMPLE QUESTIONS:

(1) Is Doorman wearing a short-sleeved shirt?

(2) Is Doorman's shirt buttoned up to the top?

And the reason is obvious. If Doorman was not wearing a short-sleeved shirt

and it it was not buttoned up to the top, then the only alternative candidates

have been excluded and the only candidate for Doorman is Oswald.

BS Fetzer these stupid questions have been answered repeatedly and do really think that of the millions of men with in a short drive of DP "doorman" only could have been Lovelady or Ozzie?

[Greg Burnham]

You can't bring yourself to answer simple questions. This is beyond belief!

But then, I know, you are doing the best that you can. It is dumbfounding.

The degree of disregard for logic and evidence on this forum staggers the

mind. So few are willing to even acknowledge the most elementary proof:

(1) Doorman's was wearing a long sleeved shirt with distinctive features.

Oswald was wearing a long sleeved shirt with distinctive features.

Therefore, Oswald's shirt makes him a strong candidate for Doorman.

(2) Doorman was not wearing a short-sleeved shirt.

Lovelady was wearing a short-sleeved shirt.

Therefore, Lovelady was not Doorman.

(3) Doorman had a shirt that was splayed open.

Checkered Shirt Man was not splayed open.

Therefore, Checkered Shirt Man is not Doorman.

(4) Doorman was Oswald or Lovelady or Checkered Shirt Man.

But Doorman was not Lovelady or Checkered Shirt Man.

Therefore, Doorman was Oswald.

Why are so many here AFRAID OF THE TRUTH? Logic and evidence

establish that Oswald was Doorman, that he was out with Bill Shelley

in front, just as he told Will Fritz, and that desperate measures were

taken to conceal that fact, which blows the cover-up out of the water.

---OR---

5. Doorman was none of the above (logically)

---------->

But, a few steps further are in order...

6. Oswald was not wearing the same shirt during the assassination because he changed it before questioning by the police (as he told Captain Fritz) and was later photographed in it

7. The shirt doorman is wearing is not the same shirt Oswald was wearing after his arrest

8. Therefore, Oswald is not doorman

Signs of life. Even the Warren Commission concluded that Oswald had not changed his shirt.

And if you want to believe what Lee told Fritz, then it is certainly more reasonable to accept

his statement that he was "out with Bill Shelley in front". Plus what is the probability that, had

he changed his shirt, it would correspond in so many respects with Doorman's shirt? ZERO.

Now you said that you would answer my two simple questions after I had answered yours.

I have answered yours. So I would appreciate (less speculative) answers to these of mine:

(1) Is Doorman wearing a short-sleeved shirt?

(2) Is Doorman's shirt buttoned up to the top?

They are very simple questions and the answers are obvious. So what are your answers?

I already answered in post #110.

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

Well, no one has proposed any alternative candidates, as you know (or should know).

Lee told Fritz he was "out with Bill Shelley in front", which was an important answer

to the most important question Fritz had to ask him. The shirt on Doorman is VERY

DISTINCTIVE and looks like Oswald's shirt, as the article above has explained. The

shirt Lovelady was wearing does not look like Doorman's shirt--even remotely. And

Checkered Shirt Man's shirt was buttoned up to the top, while Doorman's shirt was

splayed open. Plus Checkered Shirt Man does not look remotely like Lovelady. We

have no other candidates for Doorman, which means that the argument covers the

bases that need to be covered. Random fantasizing does make an argument, where

you, as usual, have no evidence to support the notion it was someone else entirely.

Someone like Burnham STILL REFUSES TO ANSWER MY SIMPLE QUESTIONS:

(1) Is Doorman wearing a short-sleeved shirt?

(2) Is Doorman's shirt buttoned up to the top?

And the reason is obvious. If Doorman was not wearing a short-sleeved shirt

and it it was not buttoned up to the top, then the only alternative candidates

have been excluded and the only candidate for Doorman is Oswald.

BS Fetzer these stupid questions have been answered repeatedly and do really think that of the millions of men with in a short drive of DP "doorman" only could have been Lovelady or Ozzie?

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

Greg,

You are right! That was my oversight. My apologies for persisting. Thank you.

Since you agree that Doorman is not wearing a short-sleeved shirt, do you also

agree that Billy Lovelady, who was, cannot have been Doorman? And, since

Checkered Shirt Man had his shirt buttoned up to the top, while Doorman does

not, that if the alternatives are Oswald or Lovelady or Checkered Shirt Man, the

evidence we have just reviewed means that Doorman has to have been Oswald?

I will answer first, but then I expect a straight answer from you to my question asked above.

Is Doorman wearing a red-and-white short-sleeved shirt? YES or NO -- No, it is not short sleeved. However, it is a black & white photo so I don't know what color the shirt is. It is too grainy for me to tell the pattern.

Is the shirt Doorman is wearing buttoned up to the top? YES or NO -- No

[Robin Unger]

Hooke's deception.

His agenda

Post a thumbnail size image full of made up crap, knowing that there is no real way of verifying any of it

because the image is just too small to make out any of the details in it.

Cinque did exactly the same thing with his Altgens6 re-enactment photo.

despite telling me that he had a VERY LARGE version of it

all he would post on the forums was a tiny thumbnail version of it, thus avoiding any real scrutiny of the image.

Of course he didn't want us seeing his original LARGE VERSION

because he stuffed up the placements of his stand in's in the doorway.

some were standing in the wrong place, others had there hands in the wrong position, also the photo was not taken from Altgens correct LOS

No wonder he didn't want it studied in fine detail.

Edited March 4, 2013 by Robin Unger

[Thomas Graves]

Elbow man

side on right profile, arm up in a salute, elbow facing directly towards altgens camera

Nice work, Robin.

Could "Elbow Man" have been William Shelley? Lovelady testified to the Warren Commission that he was standing on the steps with Shelley and Sarah Stanton. Have Stanton and/or Shelley ever been identified on the steps? We know what William Shelley was wearing that day. What about Sarah Stanton?

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

From John Simkin's Spartacus Educational website article about Billy Lovelady:

" [THERE ARE TWO] PRIMARY SOURCES [FOR THE ARTICLE]:

(1) WARREN COMMISSION (1964)

Joseph Ball: You ate your lunch on the steps?

Billy Lovelady: Yes, sir.

Joseph Ball: Who was with you?

Billy Lovelady: Bill Shelley and Sarah Stanton....

Joseph Ball: Were you there when the President's motorcade went by?

Billy Lovelady: Right.

Joseph Ball: Did you hear anything?

Billy Lovelady: Yes, sir: sure did.

Joseph Ball: What did you hear?

Billy Lovelady: I thought it was firecrackers or somebody celebrating the arrival of the President. It didn't occur to me at first what had happened until this Gloria came running up to us and told us the President had been shot.

Joseph Ball: Who was this girl?

Billy Lovelady: Gloria Calvary...

Joseph Ball: Where was the direction of the sound?

Billy Lovelady: Right there around that concrete little deal on that knoll.

Joseph Ball: That's where it sounded to you?

Billy Lovelady: Yes, sir; to my right. I was standing as you are going down the steps, I was standing on the right, sounded like it was in that area.

Joseph Ball: From the underpass area?

Billy Lovelady: Between the underpass and the building right on the knoll.

(2) HOUSE SELECT COMMITTEE ON ASSASSINATIONS (1979)

A widely publicized photograph taken by Associated Press photographer James W. Altgens within a few seconds after President Kennedy was first shot shows a spectator who bears a strong physical resemblance to Lee Harvey Oswald standing at the west end of the Texas School Book Depository entrance way. Altgens has stated that he took the picture of the presidential limousine, with the Texas School Book Depository entrance way in the background, just after he heard a noise "which sounded like the popping of a firecracker."

In evaluating the evidence that Oswald was in the sixth floor, southeast corner window of the Texas School Book Depository at the time of the shooting, the Warren Commission considered the allegation that the man shown in the doorway in the Altgens photograph was Oswald. The Commission concluded that the spectator was not Oswald, but rather another Texas School Book Depository employee, Billy Nolan Lovelady. This conclusion was based upon Lovelady's identification of himself in the Altgens photograph and upon statements of other persons who were present in the Texas School Book Depository entranceway at the same time.

Warren Commission critics have charged that there was insufficient basis for this conclusion, and have faulted the Commission for presenting " no supporting visual evidence by which one can appraise the resemblance between Lovelady and the man in the doorway, or Lovelady and Oswald, although nothing less hangs on the accurate identification of the doorway man than Oswald's possible total innocence of the assassination".

This issue has also persisted because of reported discrepancies in connection with the clothing worn by the Altgens figure and Billy Lovelady on November 22, 1963. In media prints of the Altgens photograph, the man appears to be wearing a long-sleeved shirt similar to the one in which Oswald was arrested.

According to a memo written by FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover to the Warren Commission after Lovelady had been interviewed and photographed in 1964 by FBI agents, Lovelady was reported [by the mistaken FBI agents who assumed that Lovelady had worn the same shirt on 11/22/63 that he was wearing when they interviewed and photographed him. --T.Graves] to have been wearing a short-sleeved red and white, vertically striped shirt. Lovelady later explained that when he was interviewed and photographed by the FBI, he had not been told to wear the same shirt he had worn on the day of the assassination and that, in fact, he had been wearing a long-sleeved, plaid shirt when he was standing in the Texas School Book Depository doorway.

This contradiction was partially resolved by photo-optical work performed by Robert Groden, a Warren Commission critic and photographic consultant to the committee. During his work with the committee Groden made photographically enhanced enlargements of the original 35 millimeter black and white Altgens negative and frames of the Bell, Martin, and Hughes color motion picture films, which also showed the spectator in the doorway, and detected a pattern of lines that correspond in pattern and color more closely to Lovelady's plaid shirt than to Oswald's tweed-patterned shirt.

Even so, in an effort to resolve the issue even more definitively, the photographic evidence panel's board of forensic anthropologists were requested to study the photograph of the spectator shown standing in the doorway.

Is it possible to identify positively as either Lee Harvey Oswald or Billy Lovelady, the man, shown in the Altgens photograph standing by the doorway entrance to the Texas School Book Depository at the time of the President's assassination?

In order to produce the clearest possible photographic images of the spectator in question, the Photographic Evidence Panel had black and white prints made from the original Altgens 35 millimeter negative at various contrasts, density levels and enlargements. They included various enlargements of the spectator's face such as that shown in the photograph. The anthropologists were furnished with a number of these prints.

A series of photographs of Lee Harvey Oswald, ranging from the time of his ILS. Marine Corps enlistment in 1956 to his arrest in Dallas in 1963, were provided to the anthropologists. While all were examined, those taken on the day of Oswald's arrest in Dallas received the closest scrutiny.

Photographs of Lovelady were furnished which varied in date from 1959 to 1977. Of most interest were those taken near the time of the assassination.

Due to the blurred quality of the enlargements of the spectator's image in the Altgens photograph, it was not possible either to identify or exclude positively Lovelady, or Oswald. Based on a subjective assessment of the facial features of the spectator, however, it was determined that the man in the doorway bears a much stronger resemblance to Lovelady than to Oswald. Thus, assuming it is either Oswald or Lovelady, and not a third party, it appears highly improbable that the spectator is Oswald and highly probable that he is Lovelady.

In comparing the photographs of Oswald and Lovelady, the general similarities in facial configuration between the two men were initially noted. Closer examination of the photographs revealed significant differences in the two men's facial proportions:

(a) Facial length.- Relative to facial breadth across the cheekbones, Lovelady's face is longer than Oswald's.

( b ) Lower jaw breadth.- Relative to facial breadth, measured across the cheekbones, Lovelady's lower jaw is narrower than Oswald's.

( c ) Chin length.- Relative to facial length, Lovelady has a somewhat longer chin than Oswald.

(d) Forehead breadth - Relative to the breadth of the face measured across the cheekbones, Lovelady's is broader than Oswald's.

(e) Nasal breadth.- Relative to nose length, Lovelady's nose is broader than Oswald's.

(f) Nasal tip - Oswald's nasal tip is somewhat, small and sharply contoured, whereas that of Lovelady is rounder and more bulbous.

(g) Forehead height - Due to hairline recession, Lovelady has relatively higher forehead than Oswald.

(h) Hairline contour - Photographs of Lovelady and Oswald taken at a time close to the assassination indicate that, overall Lovelady's central hairline had receded more than Oswald's, resulting in Lovelady's higher forehead, as noted above; in addition, the recession on both sides of Lovelady's temple is more sharply advanced than Oswald's. Lovelady's recession was not uniform, and he has a downward projection in the hairline about one inch to the right of the center of his forehead. This eccentrically placed "widow's peak" was not observed in any of Oswald's photographs.

In summary, Lovelady's face is relatively longer than Oswald's its length accentuated, in part, by more advanced balding and also by his narrower lower jaw and deeper chin. The asymmetry in his hairline is also a distinctive trait.

The enlargements of the spectator's face are not of sufficient quality to permit accurate measurements. However, several features corresponding to Lovelady's traits can be discerned and subjectively assessed:

(a) A relatively broad, high forehead;

( b ) Advanced recession of the hairline on each side of his head;

(e) Interruption of the central hairline by a downward extension located slightly to the right of the center of the forehead;

(d) A relatively long face with narrow jaws and a deep chin: and

(e) A rather bulbous nasal tip."

http://www.spartacus...JFKlovelady.htm

--Tommy

(emphasis added)

[moved to new thread]

Edited March 4, 2013 by Thomas Graves

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

I agree that Richard Hooke is better at dealing with these issues than is Robin Unger. That's not news.

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

(2) HOUSE SELECT COMMITTEE ON ASSASSINATIONS (1979)

A widely publicized photograph taken by Associated Press photographer James W. Altgens within a few seconds after President Kennedy was first shot shows a spectator who bears a strong physical resemblance to Lee Harvey Oswald standing at the west end of the Texas School Book Depository entrance way. Altgens has stated that he took the picture of the presidential limousine, with the Texas School Book Depository entrance way in the background, just after he heard a noise "which sounded like the popping of a firecracker."

In evaluating the evidence that Oswald was in the sixth floor, southeast corner window of the Texas School Book Depository at the time of the shooting, the Warren Commission considered the allegation that the man shown in the doorway in the Altgens photograph was Oswald. The Commission concluded that the spectator was not Oswald, but rather another Texas School Book Depository employee, Billy Nolan Lovelady. This conclusion was based upon Lovelady's identification of himself in the Altgens photograph and upon statements of other persons who were present in the Texas School Book Depository entranceway at the same time.

Warren Commission critics have charged that there was insufficient basis for this conclusion, and have faulted the Commission for presenting " no supporting visual evidence by which one can appraise the resemblance between Lovelady and the man in the doorway, or Lovelady and Oswald, although nothing less hangs on the accurate identification of the doorway man than Oswald's possible total innocence of the assassination".

This issue has also persisted because of reported discrepancies in connection with the clothing worn by the Altgens figure and Billy Lovelady on November 22, 1963. In media prints of the Altgens photograph, the man appears to be wearing a long-sleeved shirt similar to the one in which Oswald was arrested.

According to a memo written by FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover to the Warren Commission after Lovelady had been interviewed and photographed in 1964 by FBI agents, Lovelady was reported [by the mistaken FBI agents who assumed that Lovelady had worn the same shirt on 11/22/63 that he was wearing when they interviewed and photographed him. --T.Graves] to have been wearing a short-sleeved red and white, vertically striped shirt. Lovelady later explained that when he was interviewed and photographed by the FBI, he had not been told to wear the same shirt he had worn on the day of the assassination and that, in fact, he had been wearing a long-sleeved, plaid shirt when he was standing in the Texas School Book Depository doorway.

This contradiction was partially resolved by photo-optical work performed by Robert Groden, a Warren Commission critic and photographic consultant to the committee. During his work with the committee Groden made photographically enhanced enlargements of the original 35 millimeter black and white Altgens negative and frames of the Bell, Martin, and Hughes color motion picture films, which also showed the spectator in the doorway, and detected a pattern of lines that correspond in pattern and color more closely to Lovelady's plaid shirt than to Oswald's tweed-patterned shirt.

Well, this is pretty bizarre, since Checkered Shirt Man looks nothing like Billy Lovelady. And of course

this is the same Robert Groden who promotes fake color photos from the autopsy and maintains that

the Zapruder film is authentic. I think you need to get a better source. How many times do I have to

explain that Billy had a normal profile and that Checkered Shirt Man looked like a gorilla? How many?

Even so, in an effort to resolve the issue even more definitively, the photographic evidence panel's board of forensic anthropologists were requested to study the photograph of the spectator shown standing in the doorway.

Is it possible to identify positively as either Lee Harvey Oswald or Billy Lovelady, the man, shown in the Altgens photograph standing by the doorway entrance to the Texas School Book Depository at the time of the President's assassination?

In order to produce the clearest possible photographic images of the spectator in question, the Photographic Evidence Panel had black and white prints made from the original Altgens 35 millimeter negative at various contrasts, density levels and enlargements. They included various enlargements of the spectator's face such as that shown in the photograph. The anthropologists were furnished with a number of these prints.

A series of photographs of Lee Harvey Oswald, ranging from the time of his ILS. Marine Corps enlistment in 1956 to his arrest in Dallas in 1963, were provided to the anthropologists. While all were examined, those taken on the day of Oswald's arrest in Dallas received the closest scrutiny.

Photographs of Lovelady were furnished which varied in date from 1959 to 1977. Of most interest were those taken near the time of the assassination.

Due to the blurred quality of the enlargements of the spectator's image in the Altgens photograph, it was not possible either to identify or exclude positively Lovelady, or Oswald. Based on a subjective assessment of the facial features of the spectator, however, it was determined that the man in the doorway bears a much stronger resemblance to Lovelady than to Oswald. Thus, assuming it is either Oswald or Lovelady, and not a third party, it appears highly improbable that the spectator is Oswald and highly probable that he is Lovelady.

. . .

--Tommy

(emphasis added)

PS: If anyone looks very closely at Lovelady's shirt during the whole clip they will see it was unbuttoned. See that very white, vertical "stripe" which is broader at the bottom than at the top and is closer to his belly than his neck? (It's visible just before he starts turning his head back to the right.) That's his T-shirt!

--Tommy

This is grasping after straws. Checkered Shirt Man's shirt was buttoned up to the top, not splayed open like Doorman's.

This is further evidence of the desperation to which these people--Lamson, Unger, Graves and others--are willing to go.

Not only does Checkered Shirt Man look nothing like Billy Lovelady, but his shirt does not remotely resemble Doorman's.

That's why they had to bring in a THIRD LOVELADY for the sake of faking an open shirt in new footage from the DPD.

Edited March 4, 2013 by James H. Fetzer

[Robin Unger]

TSBD employees standing in the doorway

Bonnie Ray Williams, Danny Arc, Lovelady

Hughes Martin film Timeline sync showing Bonnie Ray Williams, Danny Arc, Lovelady from two separate camera LOS ( Credit: Gerda Dunckel )

Edited March 4, 2013 by Robin Unger

[John Dolva]

"hey had to bring in a THIRD LOVELADY for the sake of faking an open shirt in new footage from the DPD"

thanks I really needed that.

[Thomas Graves]

"They had to bring in a THIRD LOVELADY for the sake of faking an open shirt in new footage from the DPD"

thanks I really needed that.

John,

This really is funny!

Dr. Fetzer accused me of "grasping at straws" when I showed that Lovelady was wearing his unbuttoned shirt in front of the TSBD. But It's a case of the pot calling the kettle black. "Three Loveladys." LOL!!! Hilarious!!!

--Tommy

[Robin Unger]

Wiegman Colorized frame showing the doorway as seen face on

showing the REAL standing positions of the doorway occupants.

[Robin Unger]

"They had to bring in a THIRD LOVELADY for the sake of faking an open shirt in new footage from the DPD"

thanks I really needed that.

John,

This really is funny!

Dr. Fetzer accused me of "grasping at straws" when I showed that Lovelady was wearing his unbuttoned shirt in front of the TSBD. But It's a case of the pot calling the kettle black. "Three Loveladys." LOL!!! Hilarious!!!

--Tommy

I am still cleaning up the coffee i spat out when i read that comment ! roflmao

The man is losing his grip on reality.

[Robin Unger]

After studying these two interconnected hands for some time, i believe there is a strong possibility that they could actually be feminine woman's hands.

The same person can be seen in the Wiegman frame above, hands protruding from the right hand side of the doorway wall

Edited March 4, 2013 by Robin Unger