Music and the JFK Assassination

[Charles Drago]

While the following is not "about" the assassination, it does speak with simple poetry to the fleeting nature of our time here, and in so doing chastens and hastens us to effect justice.

By the way, jazz singer Jon Hendricks maintains that the lyric is an intentional description of the so-called NDE -- near-death experience.

"Dancing in the Dark"

by Arthur Schwartz and Howard Dietz (from "The Band Wagon")

Dancing in the dark 'til the tune ends

We're dancing in the dark and it soon ends

We're waltzing in the wonder of why we're here

Time hurries by, we're here and we're gone

Looking for the light of a new love

To brighten up the night, I have you love

And we can face the music together

Dancing in the dark

Charles

Edited April 15, 2007 by Charles Drago

[William Kelly]

The Ballad of Billie Sol (Phil Ochs)

Billie Sol was a man

From the giant Texas land

He put the Chamber of Commerce on a limb

They voted him the best

And the government did no less

Until the I.O.U.'s of Texas fell on him

Stand tall, Billie Sol, we don't know you at all

We've taken down your pictures from the wall

Well, we don't want to handle an agriculture scandal

We have got to face elections in the fall

I remember when

Bill had influential friends

He celebrated Christmas every day

He filled Texas banks with his fertilizer tanks

Influential friends don't die they only fade away

Stand tall, Billie Sol, we don't know you at all

We've taken down your pictures from the wall

Well, we don't want to handle an agriculture scandal

We have got to face elections in the fall

The democrats deny

And Orville Freeman sighs

He said "Everyone around was fair and square"

But He was no more convincing

than Ezra Taft Benson

As resignations cropped up everywhere

Stand tall, Billie Sol, we don't know you at all

We've taken down your pictures from the wall

Well, we don't want to handle an agriculture scandal

We have got to face elections in the fall

And now I'd like to say

that crime sure doesn't pay

But if you want to make some money on the sly

Well you can always rent

The U.S. Government

It's the best one that money can buy.

Stand tall, Billie Sol

We don't know you at all

We've take down your pictures from the wall

Well, we don't want to handle

and agriculture scandal

We have got to face elections in the fall

[John Kelin]

Hi...I skimmed over the headers to the many replies to the first message in this thread. Maybe this tune was mentioned, maybe not. Take a listen:

This is by Lou Reed, of all people. Rightly or wrongly, I associate Lou Reed with songs about heroin and cross-dressing. And yet here is this number.

John Kelin

I thought I would start a thread on lyrics relating to the assassination, I notice in a rolling stones song which I think is jumping jack flash mick jagger says "who killed the kennedys", there is also a song called "the ballad of billy sol estes" , has anybody else got examples. I have heard that elvis was very interested in the assassination and looked into it personaly, can anyone confirm this?

john

[John Simkin]

Hi...I skimmed over the headers to the many replies to the first message in this thread. Maybe this tune was mentioned, maybe not. Take a listen:

This is by Lou Reed, of all people. Rightly or wrongly, I associate Lou Reed with songs about heroin and cross-dressing. And yet here is this number.

Good use of YouTube to promote your book. I will add the links to my page on you.

[Dawn Meredith]

'John Simkin' date='Jan 27 2008, 10:29 AM' post='135237']

Hi...I skimmed over the headers to the many replies to the first message in this thread. Maybe this tune was mentioned, maybe not. Take a listen:

This is by Lou Reed, of all people. Rightly or wrongly, I associate Lou Reed with songs about heroin and cross-dressing. And yet here is this number.

Good use of YouTube to promote your book. I will add the links to my page on you.

Thanks John. Very moving song. I had never heard this one before. And Mark Lane's words at the COPA conference in 1998 is the part in your book I have read to so many people. That one snippet says it all.

Do forum members agree with Caroline that Obama will be "a preseident like (her) father"?

Dawn

[William Kelly]

'John Simkin' date='Jan 27 2008, 10:29 AM' post='135237']

Hi...I skimmed over the headers to the many replies to the first message in this thread. Maybe this tune was mentioned, maybe not. Take a listen:

This is by Lou Reed, of all people. Rightly or wrongly, I associate Lou Reed with songs about heroin and cross-dressing. And yet here is this number.

Good use of YouTube to promote your book. I will add the links to my page on you.

Thanks John. Very moving song. I had never heard this one before. And Mark Lane's words at the COPA conference in 1998 is the part in your book I have read to so many people. That one snippet says it all.

Do forum members agree with Caroline that Obama will be "a preseident like (her) father"?

Dawn

Yea, John, that's totally cool. A Lou Reed song new to me and some good video.

Good to see Bill Turner and Phil Melanson there in the sun.

BK

[Mark Stapleton]

Very nice, John. Thank you.

Was that Lou Reed in sunnies among the crowd about half way through the clip?

The Mark Lane appearance was excellent. He might be right--the only way the issue will be resolved is when the US Governemnt comes clean.

[William Kelly]

Very nice, John. Thank you.

Was that Lou Reed in sunnies among the crowd about half way through the clip?

The Mark Lane appearance was excellent. He might be right--the only way the issue will be resolved is when the US Governemnt comes clean.

Transcript of Mark Lane's speech:

Mark Lane: I remember coming here thirty-five years ago and there were no crowds on the grassy knoll. But now, after all of these years, although they have a museum over there on the 6th Floor, which is a museum dedicated to a place where nothing happened. They don't have a plaque over here, on the grassy knoll, and they should.

Thirty-five years ago today the Dallas Morning News published a full page ad with the sarcastic heading: "Welcome To Dallas Mr. President," and then went on to practically call him a communist and a trator. That was then.

Today's Dallas Morning News has an editorial: "Kennedy's Legacy - The Time Is Ripe For Idealism," with no references to him being a communist or a traitor. Now he's a great man. They'll tell us everything about John Kennedy, everything, except who killed him. Because look at the rest of the Dallas Morning News, thirty-five years later, when every survey in America shows that 75 to 95% of the people are convinced that there was a conspiracy to kill John Kennedy, here we go in the guise of a book review in today's Dallas Morning News: Oswald Alone Killed Kennedy, Oswald Alone Killed Tippit, One Man Two Murders, they're sticking with the same story. I have but one word for the Dallas Morning News:

Shame. Shame on you, you are discracing the city of Dallas, and it is not fair to do that.

I'll tell you where there should be plaques in this city. There were a number of brave, courageous residents of this city, longtime residents of Texas, who had the courage to speak the truth to power in the face of intimidation and threats. Right over there was Jean Hill, and she's still there thirty-five years later, one of the first to tell the truth that shots came from behind that wooden fence. And they attacked her and ridiculed her. There should be a plaque over there commemorating her right on the spot where she is standing...

The Grassy Knoll should be called "Lee Bowers Memorial Park," the railroad bridge should be the Holland-Dode-Symmons Underpass - that's the monuments that should be named after the people of this state, people who had the courage to come forward with the truth, while the Dallas Morning News lied thirty-five years ago and continues to lie thirty-five years later.

This is the place where our leader was murdered. This is hollowed grown, and the people of this country know it. It is supose to be the largest tourist attraction in Dallas. There's people here all the time, at the grassy knoll, nobody looks for the truth from the 6th floor of the Book Depository building, because the people of America know the truth, even though the Dallas Morning News is unwilling to share the information with us.

That day in Dallas, in this city, at this location, when the government of the United States executed its own president, when that happened, we as a nation, lost our code of honor, lost our sense of honor. And it can only be restored when the government of the United States - and it will not do it without us insisting, and marching and fighting and voting, and putting this matter on the agenda,...but when that day comes that the government of the United States tells us the truth and all the factual details about the assassination, including their role in the murder. When that day comes, honor will be restored to this nation. Thank you.

For all the speakers that day:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...AT+DIDNT+HAPPEN

[Robert Howard]

It would be worth mentioning that for a city that has managed to walk a tightrope regarding the JFK Assassination, if either the Harris or Gallup polls ever had the chutzpah, to poll the 40-65 years of age demographic in Dallas, regarding the assassination "Was it a Conspiracy," the rest of America would be scandalized at the numbers, in favor of the dreaded, {that thing that doesent happen in America- Bushism}

I have spoken to large numbers of people throughout the years in Dallas, and I have never met one person who believes the "lone-nut garbage," on the contrary, the perception that the US Government has no credibility, translated cannot be trusted, is a hotbed of corruption and cannot tell the American people the truth about anything is very strong, which makes a lot of sense when you realize that within the last few months a major poll indicated only 19% of American's "trusted" the government.....

After six years of the Bush/Cheney/Orwell conundrum, I finally reached the point where so may other people in the future home of the Bush Library, started feeling like there wasn't anything to prevent Homeland Security from being manipulated [with those two in power] into an American version of the Gestapo, that I really think it would help American's to understand that most Dallas residents are just as scandalized about "whats going on" these day's as American's in any other city.

For the life of me the silence of the media is deafening, here you have Cheney and Rumsfeld, both with significant positions in the Nixon White House, the most criminal presidency hitherto known, and not one time have I seen a news piece on television or the radio, which mentions that fact......

What does that say about honesty and integrity in our media?

[Otto B Cornejo]

if this one hasn't been posted yet...

XTC's "Peter Pumkinhead"

The video they shot for the song recreates part of the assassination.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWgC9KyHyRk

Peter pumpkinhead came to town

Spreading wisdom and cash around

Fed the starving and housed the poor

Showed the vatican what golds for

But he made too many enemies

Of the people who would keep us on our knees

Hooray for peter pumpkin

Wholl pray for peter pumpkinhead?

Oh my!

Peter pumpkinhead pulled them all

Emptied churches and shopping malls

Where he spoke, it would raise the roof

Peter pumpkinhead told the truth

But he made too many enemies...

Peter pumpkinhead put to shame

Governments who would slur his name

Plots and sex scandals failed outright

Peter merely said

Any kind of love is alright

But he made too many enemies...

Peter pumpkinhead was too good

Had him nailed to a chunk of wood

He died grinning on live tv

Hanging there he looked a lot like you

And an awful lot like me!

But he made too many enemies...

Hooray for peter pumpkin

Wholl pray for peter pumpkin

Hooray for peter pumpkinhead

Oh my oh my oh!

Doesnt it make you want to cry oh?

[Michael McMahon]

Bob Dylan's Like a Rolling Stone has lyrics which read, "You say you never compromised/ with the mystery tramp..."

Someone told me he believed "mystery tramp" came from the pictures of the mystery tramps in Dealey Plaza.

BTW, the song is about Edie Sedgwick, Andy Warhol star, heiress and drug addict.

Kathy

Dylan wrote "Like a Rolling Stone" in 1965. I don't believe the tramp photos were common knowledge then, or had even been publicized.

The song may or may not have anything to do with Edie Sedgwick. He wrote the song early in the year and supposedly hadn't met her until after it had already been released. At the most, she helped inspire some of the lyrics, but I doubt it, since the tone is biting and sardonic, and their "relationship" didn't go south until well after the release of the song, when Warhol told Sedgwick that Dylan was a married man. The song's general message is probably about Dylan kissing goodbye to the predictable folk music world that had been fencing him in, and now he was going his own way, and how does it feel? Or Joan Baez. Or a thousand other possibilities.

Edited January 28, 2008 by Michael McMahon

[Guest Stephen Turner]

Not about JFK, but Rage against the Machine's Wake up contains the lines.

"You know they went after King, when he spoke out on Vietnam"

"You know they murdered X, then tried to blame it on Islam"

[Len Colby]

Was that Lou Reed in sunnies among the crowd about half way through the clip?

I imagine you were joking, but no, that definitely wasn’t him.

Robert wrote:

…if either the Harris or Gallup polls ever had the chutzpah, to poll the 40-65 years of age demographic in Dallas, regarding the assassination "Was it a Conspiracy," the rest of America would be scandalized at the numbers, in favor of the dreaded, {that thing that doesent happen in America- Bushism}

If I’m not mistaken most of the Harris, Gallup etc polls are carried out at the behest of clients. Zogby it seems will carry out any poll its clients pay for, even going so far as to asking leading questions on behalf of 9/11 “truth” groups. I don’t know why you think such a poll would be shock, from what I’ve read several polls have shown that about 2/3 of Americans think the assassination was a conspiracy but if you can get the money together call Zogby.

For the life of me the silence of the media is deafening, here you have Cheney and Rumsfeld, both with significant positions in the Nixon White House, the most criminal presidency hitherto known, and not one time have I seen a news piece on television or the radio, which mentions that fact......

1) IIRC John S. believes the LBJ administration was “the most criminal presidency hitherto known” I (and I believe the majority of forum members) however think the Bush II White House deserves that title.

2) There are things far worse to hold against “Cheney and Rumsfeld” than that, such as their role in getting the US into the Iraq disaster.

3) They held relatively minor positions it is doubtful they had anything to do with the corrupt shenanigans of their higher-ups. I doubt you or any other member of this forum could tell us (with out looking it up) what positions they held or who their current counterparts are. Heck I doubt Bush could tell us who they are.

4) Their service in the Nixon administration was reported back in 2000/2001 when it was relevant.

What does that say about honesty and integrity in our media?

Not that they don’t under report or totally ignore many important issues but in this case it doesn’t say a thing.

Bill wrote:

The song [Like a Rolling Stone" by Dylan] may or may not have anything to do with Edie Sedgwick. He wrote the song early in the year and supposedly hadn't met her until after it had already been released. At the most, she helped inspire some of the lyrics, but I doubt it, since the tone is biting and sardonic, and their "relationship" didn't go south until well after the release of the song, when Warhol told Sedgwick that Dylan was a married man.

While it seems clear she was infatuated with Dylan and he may have been leading her on I know of no real evidence they were lovers. The best I’ve seen is a claim by one of her bothers 40 years after the fact that she told him they’d had an affair but she’d been battling metal illness and drug addiction for several years at that point.

EDIT - formatting

Edited January 28, 2008 by Len Colby

[Frank Caramelli]

I thought I would start a thread on lyrics relating to the assassination, I notice in a rolling stones song which I think is jumping jack flash mick jagger says "who killed the kennedys", there is also a song called "the ballad of billy sol estes" , has anybody else got examples. I have heard that elvis was very interested in the assassination and looked into it personaly, can anyone confirm this?

john

"I can't remember if I cried,

when I read about his widowed bride,

but something touched me deep inside

the day the music died

From Don Mclean's "Bye, Bye Miss American Pie" - around '73

Oddly, the music didn't die 11/22/63 - it was born! The Beatles released "Introducing The Beatles" in Britain, on Nov 22, 1963. Americans got the album a month or so later as "Meet the Beatles" The Beatles themselves thought the death of JFK hurt their chances for success in America. Pop historians think just the opposite.

[Len Colby]

"I can't remember if I cried,

when I read about his widowed bride,

but something touched me deep inside

the day the music died

From Don Mclean's "Bye, Bye Miss American Pie" - around '73

That song was about the deaths of Buddy Holly, Ritchie Valens and the Big Bopper. The “widowed bride” was “Mrs. Buddy Holly” (can’t remember her name) they gotten married only a few months earlier. Holly had recently split up with the Crickets and Waylon Jennings was the guitar player in the backing band but staid on the tour bus. Supposedly a band whose lead singer was a kid named Robert Zimmerman filled for one of of the acts at a show in Minnesota. Dion and the Belmonts were also on the tour. in 1968 as a solo act Dion recorded “Abraham, Martin and John” about the assassinations of Lincoln, King and the Kennedys (“Bobby” is mentioned as well)

The first two verses are same as the third except for the first name:

“Anybody here seen my old friend Martin?

Can you tell me where he's gone?

He freed a lot of people,

But it seems the good they die young.

I just looked 'round and he's gone.

Didn't you love the things that they stood for?

Didn't they try to find some good for you and me?

And we'll be free

Some day soon, and it's a-gonna be one day ...

Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?

Can you tell me where he's gone?

I thought I saw him walkin' up over the hill,

With Abraham, Martin and John.”