Robert Prudhomme Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) Does Gloria Calvary look like she is on a dead run for the steps of the TSBD, and about to beat Baker there, or is she standing around with the other ladies, down by the pergola, trying to figure out what just happened? Ms. Calvary must beat Baker to the steps of the TSBD, in order to tell Shelley and Lovelady the President has been shot, and to allow them to be 25 steps away from the TSBD when Truly and Baker run into the building. Edited March 18, 2015 by Robert Prudhomme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mady Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Robert, honestly this is too exhausting and frankly a waste of time. For what reason do you desire LOVELADY and SHELLEY to have maintained their positions on the steps until CALVERY returned and they had their conversation? What benefit to your belief of the assassination is this? You do realize that immediately following the gunfire, both DOORMAN and Man Shielding eyes can no longer be identified as remaining on the steps. This does not mean they are not there, but it is another indication that LOVELADY and SHELLEY are the two depicted in Couch film. (((And that short sleeved shirts are very rare in photographs and film taken in DP, I think I remember one other person wearing short sleeved shirt and that was NEWMAN. ))) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) Thomas, Do you know for an absolute fact that these scenes could not have been staged and how do you know this? Ever heard of common sense, Robert? None of the "extras" spilled the beans because of "National Security"? LOL --Tommy Mady wrote: So in other words you have no evidence to show that the scenes could not have been staged. Is it that you feel very strongly that it could not be conceivably possible? I don't want to put words in your mouth but you have not provided any reasoning for your opinion other than it is unimaginable to you. [...] I have no doubt they could have done it, there is no technical reason or insurmountable obstacle to have prevented them from doing so. The fact that WILLIAMS and ARCE and extras never spilled the beans could be a proof of "national Security" threat wouldn't it? [...] Mady, The burden of proof is on you, not me. It's your theory. So please tell us how the bad guys could have / would have "staged" or "faked" the scene which was captured simultaneously in the John Martin and Robert Hughes films in which Lovelady is smoking a cigarette in front of the TSBD a few minutes after the assassination and in close proximity to his co-workers Bonnie Ray Williams and Danny Arce. You do agree that Bonnie Ray Williams and Danny Arce are visible in the John Martin film (post #1470, this thread), don't you, or do you think they were paid "extras"? You do agree that they are in front of the TSBD, don't you, or are they in front of a fake building made to look like the TSBD? You do agree that both films were shot during daylight hours, don't you, or do you think they were shot at night, using artificial light? You do agree that DPD policemen are visible in both films, don't you, or do you think they were paid "extras"? Etc... If you think both films were "faked" and "staged" just to make it look like Lovelady had been wearing his long sleeved, mostly-red, "plaid" shirt on 11/22/63, why do you think the bad guys went to the trouble to film the scene from two slightly-different positions? Wouldn't one fake film have been sufficient? --Tommy Post # 1470, this thread. Scroll down to see the John Martin and Robert Hughes clips of this scene juxtaposed: I have been looking at an enhanced copy of the Hughes film, and I noticed, towards the end of it, what appears to be the front steps of the TSBD some amount of time after the assassination. Although hard to make out, I believe I can see Billy Lovelady at the bottom of the steps on the right hand side. Does anyone know what time this footage was shot at? Robert, Yes, that's Lovelady at 1:33 (wearing his unbuttoned red, grey, and black plaid shirt over his white t-shirt) directly under the letter "T" in "DEPOSITORY". To answer your question, I think it was several minutes after the assassination as the police are letting workers into the building again. In fact at the very end you can see Lovelady start making his way up the stairs towards the front door. Sorry I can't be more specific. Perhaps another forum member can educate us. --Tommy And now for a little followup. From post # 1156, this thread, by Sean Murphy: #2. LOVELADY IS ASKED EXPLICITLY ABOUT A PRAYER MAN-STYLE SCENARIO. First the HSCA interviewer asks Lovelady to identify himself in Altgens. Lovelady immediately does so. Next Lovelady is shown an image he has never seen before: a frame from the John Martin film [contemporaneous with the Robert Hughes clip you're talking about, Mr Prudhomme] showing him (Lovelady) standing over by the east side of the entrance some 8-15 minutes post-assassination (a time estimate given by photographic consultant Robert Groden, who is present in the room). Lovelady identifies himself immediately. [...] --Tommy And last but not least! From a Robin Unger post # 142 on the "Neweusem Displays Oswald's Shirt" thread: Martin / Hughes film sync TSBD doorway Credit: Gerda Dunckel Give the Gif time to load (If you look closely at the Martin clip, you'll see that Lovelady is smoking. When he exhales through his mouth, it distorts his face because he juts his jaw out. Also note that when he turns his head away from the TSBD and exhales, a tiny vertical strip of Lovelady's t-shirt is visible in his chest area. So his shirt was unbuttoned, after all!) Note: Lovelady is visible in the Hughes clip above, too, but you can't see much of his shirt. Just his huge bald spot. LOL --Tommy Is that Howard Brennan (wearing the hardhat and overalls) walking in from the left with someone else near the end of the Hughes film? PS Please note that Bonnie Ray Williams is visible in both clips, and Danny Arce is visible in the Martin clip. Mady, Can you recognize the "Bonnie Ray Williams" and "Danny Arce" characters in the Martin clip, and "Bonnie Ray Williams" in the Hughes clip ("Danny Arce" is obscured by people standing in the foreground)? They are there. Let me know if you need some help spotting them. Did you know that Bonnie Ray Williams and Danny Arce were Lovelady's co-workers at the TSBD? --Tommy Edited March 18, 2015 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Bob Baker and Truly getting to the 2nd floor lunch room and confronting Oswald is one of the cornerstones of the WC's case. Don't you find it a bit odd that Buell Frazier never saw Baker going into the front entrance of the TSBD, and that Shelley and Lovelady testified to seeing Baker from a position it was, according to their testimony, impossible for them to be at? Even if they had not added the 3-4 minute wait on the steps and the conversation with Gloria Calvary to their story when they went to testify, could they have been that far down the street when Baker ran by them? In fact, according to Billy Lovelady's affidavit from 22/11/63, he didn't go down the Elm St. extension at all. "There was a slight pause after the first shot and then the next two was right close together. I could not tell where the shots came from but sounded like they were across the street from us. However, that could have been caused by the echo. After it was over we went back into the building and I took some police officers up to search the building." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanessa Loney Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Hi Lee I look forward to seeing that summation of yours. It would be great if a higher resolution photo could be obtained. I personally would be willing to donate money to that cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanessa Loney Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Hi Bob I think we all do - especially when it comes to Photon. I don't know what he was thinking to post that claim about being a doctor. I don't know if he actually forgets what he's posted (and where) or whether he thinks he can make any old claim and other posters won't remember. He's got the hide of an elephant that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanessa Loney Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Hi Robert Lovelady was interviewed by the HSCA in May 1978. The audio of the interview is at http://www.reopen....net/audio.html. Sean Murphy's posts referring to this remarkable information are at #1155 and #1156 on the thread. I agree it is not easy to find this on the internet though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanessa Loney Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Hi Bob I agree there's something strange about Frazier not saying that he saw Baker. He must have seen him. If he's on board with a cover up why not be all in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mady Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) Thomas, you bumped my other thread and if you search within it you will find an analysis of all three films pointing out features and anomalies that should be questionable. I can't prove definitively one way or the other, but there are some serious issues in all three films that warrant skeptical scrutinization - IMO. I would point you to one other piece of evidence, there were many people that worked in the TSBD and out of the building during the assassination, most of them filed back into the building immediately following the assassination some lingered outside for various reasons but then attempted to reenter the building and return to work only to find the building had been secured and they were prohibited to return back into the building until much later in the afternoon, apparently after the building had been searched. If LOVELADY lingered on the steps how did he get back into the building when his co-workers were prohibited from re-entering once the building had been sealed? Edited March 18, 2015 by Robert Mady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mady Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Vanessa, thank you for the post. I could not get the link to work, but your reference to earlier posts did. Thank you Bob Mady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mady Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) Robert P. I don't find anything odd about BAKER running into the TSBD on a mission to murder OSWALD in a preplanned maneuver. There was a lot of people on the street and moving into the TSBD to return to work, there was a lot of commotion. Robert, an affidavit is a persons voluntary remembrances of a situation. What they recall and feel is important to transmit is all by personal choice. There is no way that LOVELADY or anyone else could determine if a claim would have far reaching significance or none at all. What seemed important to LOVELADY while he was writing the affidavit is what is written down. What seems peculiar to me is that researchers will pick apart testimony searching for nuggets of truth and yet in the case of FRAZIER, LOVELADY and SHELLEY three witnesses located on the steps of TSBD, almost directly below the SN window and all three of these men claimed the shots came from the monument area, two of them even went to the rail yards to see what was happening and yet there is still controversy if shots came from the TSBD. If you going to find useful any part of their testimonies the most significant part might be No shots came from the TSBD! I don't understand, BAKER is seen in the Couch film running into the TSBD within moments following the assassination, are you implying this never happened or that it happened 4 or so minutes after the gunfire ended? Edited March 18, 2015 by Robert Mady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mady Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) Thomas I love your side by side videos, good job to who ever did this. While someone may look at these films and determine that two witnesses taking movies of the same scene is supportive of it being true, I look at it and wonder what are the chances that two random witnesses randomly gathered in front of the TSBD watching a scene where nothing of significance seems to be occurring and they both take a few seconds of film, both capturing essentially the exact same moments in time. And what are the chances that the films just happened to showcase LOVELADY in his plaid shirt? We have seen all the footage of OSWALD in the police station, being dragged down crowded hallways, then we are presented a scene where we see the back of someones head being walked thru an office, this scene is unlike any other scene we have of OSWALD in police custody, but that's not all, it just happens to contain LOVELADY prominently displayed in his plaid shirt. What are the chances of a film existing of OSWALD not in the hallway and what are the chances of it also containing anyone from the TSBD, but it is not just anyone it is LOVELADY in his plaid shirt. A little more skepticism toward evidence may be warranted. Edited March 18, 2015 by Robert Mady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanessa Loney Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Hi Bob Apologies about the link. The interview is on Greg Parker's 'Reopen Kennedy Case' forum. I'll follow up with them about the link and let you know. Can I ask, do you find it significant that HSCA clearly knows about Prayerman but doesn't follow up on identifying him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Hi Bob Apologies about the link. The interview is on Greg Parker's 'Reopen Kennedy Case' forum. I'll follow up with them about the link and let you know. Can I ask, do you find it significant that HSCA clearly knows about Prayerman but doesn't follow up on identifying him? Tremendously significant, Vanessa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Parker Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Hi Bob Apologies about the link. The interview is on Greg Parker's 'Reopen Kennedy Case' forum. I'll follow up with them about the link and let you know. Can I ask, do you find it significant that HSCA clearly knows about Prayerman but doesn't follow up on identifying him? http://www.reopenkennedycase.net/audio.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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