Was There a Set-up Distinct from the Cover-up?

[David Josephs]

We don't know the contents of Westbrook's beyond the mentioning of the name Hidell - the important part was that both had fake Hidell ID and were only 2 of the 5 total wallets involved.

CE1986 details the contents - there is only one thing that would "officially" be considered ID - the SSS card

Yet it was so obviously a fake. the other piece of Hidell ID was Marina's signing the FPCC card... not exactly proof. Then again - neither is this. Our Man Ozzie here was pretty good with photography (as was Roscoe White) so someone added a photo and reduced the text to fit... thing is this card and the real one below it are both in the wallet (#13 & #14 on CE1986)

The only other things linked to the name HIDELL are the rifle and pistol orders. One in Jan, one in March, both shipped on the same day, both never touched by Lee Harvey Oswald

[Jon G. Tidd]

David,

I have my 1963 draft card. It was issued to me on December 9, 1963. Signed by Mae E. Wells, Plano, Illinois draft board.

It is unlike either of the documents you post. It's the real deal. If I knew how to post it I would.

[David Josephs]

Jon - go to photobucket and sign up. Upload to your own library for free and then copy the "DIRECT" link into the space you see after you hit the image icon (looks like a picture to the left of <>

I was under the impression the bottom one was the real deal....

===============

I just got a note claiming that the wallet we see was TIPPIT's. That the DALLAS COPS told Reiland at the scene it was Tippits...

1st off - let's believe the Dallas Police when it comes to the Evidence....

2nd is the following reply to this unknown messager who declines to post here himself...

So Tippit's wallet had Oswald and Hidell SSS cards in it?

Bardin was the officer who took Tippit's wallet to Dougherty along was a variety of his possessions - he had gotten them from the Hospital?

18. CSS Form (Crime Scene Section), by W. R. Bardin. Original form concerning crime scene investigation, (Original), 11/22/63. 00002565 1 page 09 01 018 (no scan)

17. CSS Form (Crime Scene Section), by W. R. Bardin. Original form concerning evidence collected, (Original), 11/22/63. 00002563 1 page 09 01 017 (no scan)

Westbrook testifies in April - no mention of finding a wallet or bill fold in the street yet from the hospital Bardin is able to bring all the possessions in for the CSS form

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/25/2586-001.gif

We have a handful of people seeing Westbrook with the wallet. Barret is asked about Hidell, and this is LONG AFTER Tippit is gone.

WESTBROOK:

Well, then, of course, I ran to my radio because I am the personnel officer and that then became, of course, my greatest interest right at that time, and so, Sergeant Stringer and I and some patrolman---I don't recall his name---then drove to the immediate vicinity of where Officer Tippit had been shot and killed.
Of course, the body was already gone, the squad car was still there, and on one occasion as we were approaching this squad car, a call came over the radio that a suspicious person had been sighted running into the public library at Marsalis and Jefferson, so we immediately went to that location and it was a false it was just one of the actually--it was one of the employees of the library who had heard the news somewhere on the radio and he was running to tell the other group about Kennedy.
So, we returned to the scene and here I met Bob Barrett, the FBI agent, and Sergeant Stringer and Barrett and I were together, and then an eye-witness to the shooting of the officer from across the street, a lady, came to the car, and she was telling us how this happened

Neither Stringer or Bardin were questioned and Westbrook does not say a word about finding a billfold or wallet which he would have had to get to Bardin to go with the rest of his stuff... Westbrook gives the jacket, shells and a piece of window sill to Agent Drain - no wallet.

Can this person be of the opinion that after coming and going to the Tippit scene a number of times, the body is gone (no DPD officers, don't pick up that wallet lying next to your comrade and see it's his and send it with him to the hospital - where all the rest of the belongings came from)

and this wallet, Tippit's wallet, simply remained all this time in the street surrounded by a multitude of people for Westbrook to pick up... the same man who finds the Jacket, gives the FBI the shells and a piece of a window sill.

WF AA-TV cameraman Ron Reiland shot film footage in which Captain George

M. Doughty, Sergeant Calvin Owens, and Captain Westbrook can be seen handling or

viewing the wallet. TIPPIT-It/IZ In one scene Sergeant Owens is holding a man's leather

wallet in his right hand and showing it to Captain George Doughty. SA Barrett said,

"The wallet was there. There's no getting around that. Westbrook had the wallet in his

hand and asked me if I knew who these people were .... .l'm adamant that there was a

wallet in somebody's hand and (Westbrook) asked me if I knew who 'Lee Harvey

Oswald' was and who 'Hidell' was."73 Barrett later told fellow agent James Hasty about

the wallet and it's contents. Barrett told Hasty the wallet contained identification for

both Lee Harvey Oswald and Alex Hidell. Barrett told Hasty that Captain Westbrook

kept the wallet and thought that he had placed it in police property. 74 TIPPIT-13

[David Josephs]

David,

I have my 1963 draft card. It was issued to me on December 9, 1963. Signed by Mae E. Wells, Plano, Illinois draft board.

It is unlike either of the documents you post. It's the real deal. If I knew how to post it I would.

I'm sorry - you also asked if the wallets were the same... they were not.

[David Josephs]

https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=329884

This is the report from WCD7 stating that Oswald had a wallet at the Paines that he was saving money in...

When Marina was at the DPD station, Ruth brings this wallet with $170 in it to her...

Wallet #1 - on Oswald in the back of the police car

Wallet #2 - Westbrook

Wallet #3 - the one Ruth brings

Wallet #4 is the RED WALLET listed on Inv sheet 11193-G as Item #381 sent to the FBI in DC

"B1" is the FBI desgnation for the contents of Oswald's wallet https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=350521 & https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=374694

You may notice - the name HIDELL does not appear on this list. Wonder why?

https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=11690&relPageId=83 makes it sound as if some of these key items from the WALLET may have been "found" at his residence

Gotta go for now... good luck with photobucket

DJ

[Tom Hume]

David,

Oswald’s arrest wallet supposedly contained $13.00 in cash – one five and eight ones. Was there a mention of money in the Wallet found at 10th and Patton?

Tom

[Jon G. Tidd]

The "Notice of Classification" for LEE HARVEY OSWALD cannot be genuine.

It was purportedly issued on February 2, 1960, and shows Oswald as being classified "IV-A". A IV-A classification meant he was subject to the draft, that he could be drafted. But by law he could not be drafted as of February 2, 1960, because by then he had fulfilled his military obligation by serving in the Marines.

The two documents you present, David, which I've seen elsewhere, are ludicrously and patently phony. Someone, not the U.S. Government, fabricated them. They would have fooled only a person unfamiliar with Selective Service, its documents, and its practices.

If Marina's husband did in fact possess both documents at the time of his arrest, which I question, they could only have been manufactured by someone seeking to create a meaningless false impression...meaningless except that the "Hidell" card ties Oswald to the rifle.

I guess the Warren Commission argument was that Oswald himself fabricated these two cards in order to create a false identity and a false impression of his draft status.

Question: Did Marina's husband at any time represent himself in person to be Alek Hidell?

[David Josephs]

David,

Oswald’s arrest wallet supposedly contained $13.00 in cash – one five and eight ones. Was there a mention of money in the Wallet found at 10th and Patton?

Tom

Hi Tom -

I don't think there was anything more than Westbrook asking about HIDELL and OSWALD ID.

btw - after the post above related to Hosty... the unnamed, unknown person who messages & does not post for himself had no reply to support the contention that the wallet Westbrook found was Tippit's - the wallet I showed was recovered with the rest of Tippit's stuff and entered into evidence by Bardin... well after Tippit was gone

It's nice to leave that person speechless.

[David Josephs]

The "Notice of Classification" for LEE HARVEY OSWALD cannot be genuine.

It was purportedly issued on February 2, 1960, and shows Oswald as being classified "IV-A". A IV-A classification meant he was subject to the draft, that he could be drafted. But by law he could not be drafted as of February 2, 1960, because by then he had fulfilled his military obligation by serving in the Marines.

The two documents you present, David, which I've seen elsewhere, are ludicrously and patently phony. Someone, not the U.S. Government, fabricated them. They would have fooled only a person unfamiliar with Selective Service, its documents, and its practices.

If Marina's husband did in fact possess both documents at the time of his arrest, which I question, they could only have been manufactured by someone seeking to create a meaningless false impression...meaningless except that the "Hidell" card ties Oswald to the rifle.

I guess the Warren Commission argument was that Oswald himself fabricated these two cards in order to create a false identity and a false impression of his draft status.

Question: Did Marina's husband at any time represent himself in person to be Alek Hidell?

Thanks for that Jon... I had not heard it brought up that the actual Oswald card was also a fake - Inventories of items between the DPD and FBI between 11/22 and 11/26 (when the FBI returns ALL the evidence to Dallas only to "officially" record and receive it on the 26th - more evidence came back from the FBI then the DPD sent - John proves this simply by noting that initials of the DPD who photographed each item is not seen on all the FBI returned Evidence) are woefully contradictory and is a huge part of my "Evidence IS the Conspiracy" focus.

Regarding your question.... I know of no instance where Oswald refers to himself as HIDELL. It was my understanding that Nagell used this name, not Oswald.

We cannot state that the rifle and pistol orders are directly related to Oswald either as these orders and their fulfillment do not have any direct evidence connecting them to Oswald.

Unless you want to believe that bunch of hacks on the HSCA handwriting panel who offer up their own set of unique conflicts and contradictions

Marina's husband was a spy. He spied on Russia when there, he worked undercover with the FBI to out FPCC supporters while working both sides of that fence, he was given the equipment of a spy and as many are starting to see his behavior left behind spy-like traces. Whether it was Lee or Harvey working for the CIA - I would guess Lee.

Maybe "spy" is the wrong word - let's just say as we all know - he wasn't what he appeared to be.

[Tom Hume]

In post #197, David Josephs included two Selective Service cards that were reported to have been found in Lee Oswald's wallet on the day of his arrest; one bearing the name "Lee Harvey Oswald", and one bearing the name "Alek James Hidell".

My take on the significance and meaning of these two cards is on "The Oswald Code" thread.

Tom

Edited April 5, 2015 by Tom Hume

[Jon G. Tidd]

David Josephs,

You write that Oswald (Marina's husband, I assume) wasn't what he appeared to be. I know this is a widely held view.

What did Marina's husband appear to be? An inner-directed individual, who loved his daughters, who couldn't hold a job, who lived on the margin but tried to provide for his family, who hung around at times with individuals who were shady or suspicious.

I've found no difference in this appearance from Marina's husband, based on what I've read.

What did Marina's husband purport to be? A Marxist, for one thing. I can buy that he regarded himself as a Marxist. The troubling matter is his alleged use of aliases. If he in fact carried a ludicrously phony Hidell Selective Service card, he was indeed equipped, poorly so, to purport to be someone he wasn't. I can't imagine why he would carry such a card...unless some third party talked him into doing so for some reason that must have made sense to him. If this is the case, it is a direct sign of a set-up as I have defined set-up.

I lean toward believing all the Hidell stuff relating to Oswald was cooked up post-assassination, or least became known post-assassination.

[Mark Knight]

What did Marina's husband purport to be?...If he in fact carried a ludicrously phony Hidell Selective Service card, he was indeed equipped, poorly so, to purport to be someone he wasn't. I can't imagine why he would carry such a card...unless some third party talked him into doing so for some reason that must have made sense to him. If this is the case, it is a direct sign of a set-up as I have defined set-up.

If he was carrying the Hidell ID prior to the assassination, then you MIGHT believe that he was being directed by someone else?Please clarify. I don't wish to make further assumptions as to what you mean to say.

Because, if he NOT a self-directed "odd duck," as you seem to contend, then does a different set of rules come into play?

Or was the Hidell ID the "rabbit pulled out of the hat" to tie the rifle to Oswald [because nothing else does]?

[David Josephs]

David Josephs,

You write that Oswald (Marina's husband, I assume) wasn't what he appeared to be. I know this is a widely held view.

What did Marina's husband appear to be? An inner-directed individual, who loved his daughters, who couldn't hold a job, who lived on the margin but tried to provide for his family, who hung around at times with individuals who were shady or suspicious.

I've found no difference in this appearance from Marina's husband, based on what I've read.

What did Marina's husband purport to be? A Marxist, for one thing. I can buy that he regarded himself as a Marxist. The troubling matter is his alleged use of aliases. If he in fact carried a ludicrously phony Hidell Selective Service card, he was indeed equipped, poorly so, to purport to be someone he wasn't. I can't imagine why he would carry such a card...unless some third party talked him into doing so for some reason that must have made sense to him. If this is the case, it is a direct sign of a set-up as I have defined set-up.

I lean toward believing all the Hidell stuff relating to Oswald was cooked up post-assassination, or least became known post-assassination.

Jon,

If there was a Harvey and Lee... and Harvey Oswald never was a Harvey or an Oswald... how can he be what he appears to be?

Nothing about him would be what it appears... and for what reason?

edit: Jon, not sure if you ever saw this...http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/LHO.html

THE LAST WORDS OF LEE HARVEY OSWALD

Compiled by Mae Brussell

Edited April 5, 2015 by David Josephs

[Jon G. Tidd]

Mark Knight,

If Marina's husband was carrying the Hidell Selective Service card at the time of his arrest (a card bearing a poor likeness of him, a card bearing a likeness of its bearer unlike any other Selective Service card), I might believe some third party got him to carry the card, because I cannot understand why he would have fabricated and carried the card. David Josephs has confirmed my understanding that Marina's husband never represented himself in parson as Alek Hidell. So why would he for his own purposes carry an ID card that he could use to represent himself as Hidell?

If I have to choose between Oswald's carrying the card at the behest of some third party and the card's having been planted in a phony wallet, I choose the latter.

I do believe Marina's husband was a self-directed odd duck. If I'm wrong, it's not because of different rules. It's because I'm unaware of facts or mis-interpret the historical record.

[Jon G. Tidd]

David @ post #209:

I can buy that there were two boys who looked alike, whose paths appeared to cross, who came to the attention of a watchful intelligence service.

I can buy that. It's within the realm of reality.