Stephen Roy Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 A Dave/VH fan?? I'm impressed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Speer Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 LHO declares himself to be a 'patsy' - how did he know? If you were arrested for a murder you knew you didn't commit and you were told your rifle was found in the building from which the shots were fired, wouldn't you "know" you'd been set up, and that somebody had planned for you to take the fall? I'd sure hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Lloyd Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 When did he first declare himself to be a patsy and when was he confronted with the MC as 'evidence' that he'd assassinated JFK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 (edited) LHO declares himself to be a 'patsy' - how did he know? Dear Ian, Well, he knew that he was innocent, right? So, he realized he was either being framed or that he had been set up, right? Isn't it possible that he didn't know which? Now, if he didn't know which, but knew that it had to be one or the other, wouldn't "I'm just a patsy" be a reasonable thing for him to say to the press? --Tommy Edited April 15, 2015 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 (edited) When did he first declare himself to be a patsy and when was he confronted with the MC as 'evidence' that he'd assassinated JFK? Dear Ian, According to journalist Seth Kantor's notes Oswald said, "I'm just a patsy" at 7:55 pm on 11/22/63, a few hours before the "midnight press conference" during which he was told he had been charged with killing Kennedy. http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh20/html/WH_Vol20_0193b.htm --Tommy Edited April 15, 2015 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ecker Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 According to journalist Seth Kantor's notes Oswald said, "I'm just a patsy" at 7:55 pm on 11/22/63, a few hours before the "midnight press conference" during which he was told he had been charged with killing Kennedy. Are you saying he was told he was being charged at the same time the press was told? Isn't there a procedure for telling someone he's being charged, instead of springing it on him in a press conference? Of course I wouldn't put anything past the Dallas police in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 (edited) According to journalist Seth Kantor's notes Oswald said, "I'm just a patsy" at 7:55 pm on 11/22/63, a few hours before the "midnight press conference" during which he was told he had already been charged with killing Kennedy. [edited by T. Graves] Are you saying he was told he was being charged at the same time the press was told? Isn't there a procedure for telling someone he's being charged, instead of springing it on him in a press conference? Of course I wouldn't put anything past the Dallas police in this case. Dear Ron, No, Ron, that's not what I'm saying. A timeline says that Oswald was formally arraigned for Tippit's murder at 7:10 pm and that he was charged with killing Kennedy at 11:26 pm, about 40 minutes before the midnight press conference began. I don't know if the timeline is correct. http://jfkassassination.net/parnell/chrono.htm Watch the video of the midnight press conference. Someone at the press conference asked him if he'd killed Kennedy. Oswald said no, he hadn't been charged with that, in fact that the first time he'd heard about that was from the newsmen in the hallway when they asked him that question. Then an official says, "You have been charged with that." The look on Oswald's face is one of utter dismay and frustration. I'll try to dig it up for you. Here it is at around 0:32 : --Tommy Edited April 16, 2015 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mark Valenti Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Found it. At least I found a stark and kind of unforgettable reference to "patsy" that LHO would be familiar with. In June, he borrowed a book from the library about the Huey Long murder. In it, the accused murdered, Dr. Weiss, is considered a possible patsy due to political intrigue. The word "patsy" may well have been on LHO's mind, seeing himself in a similar position to Dr. Weiss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 (edited) Found it. At least I found a stark and kind of unforgettable reference to "patsy" that LHO would be familiar with. In June, he borrowed a book from the library about the Huey Long murder. In it, the accused murdered, Dr. Weiss, is considered a possible patsy due to political intrigue. The word "patsy" may well have been on LHO's mind, seeing himself in a similar position to Dr. Weiss. Looks like Oswald had a lot of different interests and was an avid reader. Books Oswald borrowed from the New Orleans Library from 5/22/63 through 9/19/63 [Date Out, Title of Book, Full Title, Author(s), Pub.Year, # of Pages, Date Returned] 05/22 Biography (by a noted biographer) Portrait of a Revolutionary: Mao Tse-Tung 1961 311 06/03 Robert Payne 06/01 Murder Investigation (respected Chicago-New Orleans journalist) The Huey Long Murder Case Hermann B. Deutsch 1963 180 06/15 06/01 Documentary History (conservative writers) The Berlin Wall Dean & David Heller 1962 ~223 06/15 06/12 Documentary History (author of popular books on US military history) Conflict Robert Leckie 1962 448 06/26 Full title: Conflict: the History of the Korean War, 1950-53 06/17 Geography and economics textbook (US geographer and professor) Soviet Potentials George B. Cressey 1962 262 07/01 Full Title: Soviet Potentials: A Geographic Appraisal 06/17 Expository textbook on Communism by husband-wife writing team in psychology & sociology: J. Edgar Hoover wrote recommendation. What We Must Know Harry Overstreet 1958 348 07/01 About Communism (actual authors: Harry & Bonaro Overstreet) Full Title: What We Must Know About Communism: Its Beginnings, Its Growth, Its Present Status 06/17 Cerebral essays by Schweitzer, Huxley, Oppenheimer, Marcel, Sartre, etc. This is My Philosophy Edited by Whit. Burnett 1958 378 07/01 (actual editors: Whitney, James & William Burnett) Full Title: This Is My Philosophy: Twenty of the World's Outstanding Thinkers Reveal the Deepest Meanings They Have Found in Life. 06/23 Science fiction: Hugo Winner by the author of 2001 A Fall of Moondust A. C. Clark 1961 224 07/12 (actual name: Arthur C. Clark) (Why was this book estimated by the FBI to have been checked out by Oswald on 06/23, when it was returned four days later than Thunderball?) 06/24 James Bond spy novel, 9th in the series Thunderball Ian Fleming (US) 1962 ~272 07/08 07/01 Biography by a noted author, also a Kennedy admirer and personal friend of JFK Portrait of a President: John F. Kennedy 1962 ~266 07/15 John F. Kennedy (struck through: by Secret Service?) William Manchester 07/06 3rd in popular Napoleonic era quasi-historic adventure series by the noted author Hornblower and the Hotspur C. S. Forester 1962 400 07/20 07/06 Soviet Prison Camp Life by (Nobel Prize) anti-communist Russian author One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovitch 1963 160 07/20 (Russian Title: Один день Ивана Денисовича) or 192 Alexander Solzihnitsyn (Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn) 07/10 Documentary History by the famed Russian-born anti-Nazi British journalist Russia Under Khrushchev Alexander Werth 1962 ~342 07/24 07/10 1st volume (9 stories) of Science Fiction‘s best, ed. by a noted scientist-author The Hugo Winners Ed. Isaac Asimov 1962 318 07/24 07/15 History: exploration of the Nile by the renowned author & war correspondent The Blue Nile Alan Moorehead 1962 ~368 07/29 Date Out/Title of Book/Full Title Author(s) Pub. # Pages Date Returned 07/15 Then-Senator John F. Kennedy‘s account of 8 US Senators whose courageous political battles created a better America Profiles in Courage John F. Kennedy 1954 272 07/29 07/18 Five full-length spy novels: The Great Impersonation by E. Phillips Oppenheim / Greenmantle by John Buchan / Epitaph for a Spy by Eric Ambler / No Surrender by Martha Albrand / No Entry by Manning Coles Five Spy Novels selected by Howard Haycraft 1962 757 08/01 07/30 Historical Fiction Description on the dust cover: “At the head of the onrushing Hittite legions was Lord Marduk. He was young, he had great wealth, high rank and his wife, Arinna was the most beautiful woman in the empire, but her warped passions drove him to seek another woman's arms.” The Hittite Noel B. Gerson 1963 224 08/13 07/30 Science Fiction : 9 novelettes of life in the future Mind Partner ed. H. L. Gold 1962 241 08/13 07/31 1976 Ed. listed in Bibliographies, AIS (Archeological Institute of America) p. 19 Everyday Life in Ancient Rome F. R. Cowell 1961 ~207 08/14 07/31 9 short stories, 2 comic poems by the great Asimov; re future computer dangers Nine Tomorrows Isaac Asimov 1959 236 08/14 08/03 Science Fiction anthology: 15 stories The Expert Dreamers ed. Frederik Pohl 1962 248 08/19 08/03 12 Science Fiction stories by the famed classic S-F writer The Worlds of Clifford Simak Clifford Simak 1960 302 08/22 Date Out/Title of Book/Full Title Author(s) Pub. # Pages Date Returned 08/12 17 selections from the writings of Huxley, Wells, Poe, Jules Verne, etc. The Treasury of Science Fiction Classics ed Harold Keubler 1954 694 08/26 08/22 5th in the famed series; one of JFK‘s 10 favorite books (Life Magazine: 03/17/61) From Russia with Love Ian Fleming 1957 253 09/05 08/22 Anthology: 16 Science Fiction and Fantasy stories Portals of Tomorrow August Derleth 1954 371 09/05 Actual Title: Portals of Tomorrow: the Best Tales of Science Fiction and Other Fantasy 08/22 “How to Write Science Fiction" and 11 other Science Fiction stories The Sixth Galaxy Reader H. L. Gold ~1962 240 09/05 08/22 The famed novel, a Christian classic, by a revered US General Ben Hur Lew Wallace 1961 510 09/23 Actual Title: Ben Hur – a Story of the Christ 08/22 Considered the best Science Fiction anthologist by many. Big Book of Science Fiction Groft (sic) Conklin 1950 187 09/23 Actual Title; The Big Book of Science Fiction (‗The‖ often dropped from its true title) Actual Author‘s Name: Groff Conklin 08/22 Historical fiction. Trans.from French. Author a former Japanese prisoner of war. The Bridge Over the River Kwai Pierre Boulle 1954 ~225 09/23 09/19 Science fiction: Huxley‘s vision of a brutal world after nuclear war, circa 2108 Ape and Essence Aldous Huxley 1948 207 10/03 09/19 Brave New World ranked 5th on The Modern Library‘s Board list of the 100 best English language novels of the 20th century in 201024. Futuristic novel w/ science fiction. 24 http://www.randomhouse.com/modernlibrary/100bestnovels.html Brave New World Aldous Huxley 193225 288 10/03 From an old post by Robert Morrow. I have edited out commentary by Judyth Baker... --Tommy Edited April 20, 2015 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Baker Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Are there any cunning linguists out there who may have an opinion? My impression is that Oswald blurted that out, and that it wasn't planned in advance. I do think you have to ask the question, why would he say that if it was true? And, why didn't he elaborate? His persona was of a cowardly nature, he was simply trying to exonerate himself. He perhaps hoped that a jury would ultimately decide that there was more to this event than the obvious. Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 (edited) Are there any cunning linguists out there who may have an opinion? My impression is that Oswald blurted that out, and that it wasn't planned in advance. I do think you have to ask the question, why would he say that if it was true? And, why didn't he elaborate? His persona was of a cowardly nature, he was simply trying to exonerate himself. He perhaps hoped that a jury would ultimately decide that there was more to this event than the obvious. Paul. I think that when Oswald blurted it out, he didn't know if he'd been set up in advance or if he'd been framed (and was still being framed) after the fact. All he knew was that he was innocent and that he was the perfect scapegoat. --Tommy Edited April 20, 2015 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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