David Josephs Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Assets are often sacrificed for the bigger picture. I would have a hard to accepting this too if it wasn't for the completely separate sets of people whr knew the different men. Lee's set ignored while Harvey's are interviewed. Donovan and Gorsky knew diff Oswalds. Felde knew Harvey, not Lee. Anna Lewis is sure she met Lee when Harvey is in Russia... And there's more... It's not a matter of belief but of explaining the evidence another way. 3830 6th street #3 Greg. Any significance? Or 120 Telemachas. Do you know what their importance is or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Gaal Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Assets are often sacrificed for the bigger picture. I would have a hard to accepting this too if it wasn't for the completely separate sets of people whr knew the different men. Lee's set ignored while Harvey's are interviewed. Donovan and Gorsky knew diff Oswalds. Felde knew Harvey, not Lee. Anna Lewis is sure she met Lee when Harvey is in Russia... And there's more... It's not a matter of belief but of explaining the evidence another way. 3830 6th street #3 Greg. Any significance? Or 120 Telemachas. Do you know what their importance is or not? Guidance From The Ancient Spy Master, Sun Tzu (500 BC) Some trace the origins of spying to the time of Moses, many experts point out the contributions of the ancient spy master, Sun Tzu (500 BC) who said there were five classes of spies: (1) Local spies - recruited agents who are inhabitants of an enemy territory (2) Moles - recruited agents who are officials in an enemy government (3) Double agents - recruited enemy spies who are used for your own purposes (4) Doomed spies - spies used for deception purposes and expendable (5) Surviving spies - spies who produce intelligence on your enemies Sun Tzu said - "When all five kinds of spy are hard at work, none can discover the secret system, or "divine manipulation of the threads." It is the commander's most precious resource. More intimate relations ought to be maintained with your spies than with your own army. None should be more liberally rewarded. In no other field should greater secrecy be preserved. Sun Tzu went on to say: (1) Spies must possess a certain intuitive sagacity (2) They should be managed with benevolence and straight forwardness (3) Spies are ingenious, so make certain of the truth of their reports (4) Be subtle, but use your spies for every kind of warfare (5) All spies are expendable Whether the object be to crush an enemy, storm a territory, or kill an official, it is always necessary to begin by finding out the names of the attendants, the aides-de-camp, and door-keepers and sentries of the official in question. Such assistants make up the playing field for spying because it's where your recruits and replacements come from. When the enemy's spies come to spy on you, they must be sought out, tempted with bribes, led away and comfortably housed. Thus they will become double agents and available for our service. It is through the information brought by the double agent that we are able to acquire and employ local and inward spies. It is owing to his information, again, that we can cause the doomed spy to carry false tidings to the enemy. Lastly, it is by his information that the surviving spy can be used on appointed occasions. The end and aim of spying in all its five varieties is knowledge of the enemy; and this knowledge can only be derived, in the first instance, from the double agent . Hence it is essential that the double agent be treated with the utmost liberality. Sun Tzu also stressed the necessity of counterintelligence. An intelligence service is a two-edged sword. It is of no use unless it can be trusted beyond any shadow of doubt, but the fact that it is trusted leaves it dangerously vulnerable to its compromise by enemy agents. An intelligence service reduces the mass of data, often contradictory, straining for a leader's attention: instead of ten versions of the nature of a problem, the leader has just one. This minimizes confusion, but it allows your enemies an easy and single target for penetration and deception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 (edited) Sun Tzu... nice Steve... the basis for all battle strategy Since I addressed the Myra photo question, it sure would be interesting to hear from Greg about 3830 W 6th #3 in Ft Worth in 1956 versus 4936 Collinwood... and why not a single letter Oswald wrote to his mother while in the Marines is in evidence. Mr. RANKIN. Now, except for that correspondence, you don't have any other correspondence from him while he was in the Marines?Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, sir, I did have several letters. Except the only one in the WCE is from Sept 59 just before he comes home for a few days before he goes to Russia... Marguerite Oswald was interviewed at their (Red Cross) office on November 18, 1957: "She (Marguerite Oswald) stated that the serviceman (Lee Oswald) has always been good about writing to them, writing at least once a week, and often twice. However they last heard October 10." Two days later Red Cross records show that Marguerite Oswald telephoned their offices and advised, "She received two letters from the serviceman today." 12 Not a single letter written by Lee Oswald to his mother has ever been found. These are the WCE up to that Sept letter CE200 from Oswald... UP TO 11/18/57 he has written fairly consistently according to MO and Lee's USMC buddies... Where are all the LEE to MOM letters Greg? (Hint, it has to do with those 2 addresses) Page Exihibit No. Description Mo Day Year 67 10 and 10 A-B Letter from Lee Harvey Oswald to John Pic August 8 23 1950 25-26 1 Copy of a letter addressed "Dear Sirs" from Lee Harvey Oswald October 10 3 1956 633 234 Letter from Lee Harvey Oswald to the Albert Schweitzer College June 6 19 1959 814 294 Letter from Lee Harvey Oswald to Robert Oswald November 11 8 1959 815-823 295 Letter from Lee Harvey Oswald to Robert Oswald November 11 26 1959 580 200 Undated letter from Lee Harvey Oswald to Marguerite Oswald September 9 1959 Edited August 5, 2015 by David Josephs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenneth Drew Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Well, now the next logical question. What difference does it make if there were 2 (or more) Oswalds? It's a certainty that Lee Harvey Oswald wasn't the killer of JFK, at most he was a patsy. His brother (I guess no one knows his name, and I haven't paid attention to his birth certificate to see if it says Marguerite had twins) hasn't been linked to the assassination (that I have heard of). Is their a point to the discussion or is it just filler material between other discussions. Is there any implication, at all, that LHO was involved in the assassination other than as a patsy? Did they know something that it was worth burning 'valuable' assets to cover? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Parker Posted August 6, 2015 Author Share Posted August 6, 2015 (SO YOU SEE GREG, YOU ARGUE THAT HEAD IS WRONG... 168 IS NOT THE # OF TOTAL DAYS. (I AGREE) YOU THEN SAY TO ADD BACK "ABSENT" TO ARRIVE AT THE CORRECT # OF DAYS IN THE SCHOOL YEAR, 184 (53-54) AND 180 (54-55). YET THEN YOU GO ON TO SAY WE DO NOT KNOW HIS ATTENDANCE ????. WHAT THEN DOES THE # 168 IN YOUR EQUATION 168 + 12 = 180 SUPPOSE TO REPRESENT?) I should have been clearer. When I said we don't know the number of days attended, I was thinking of the 53-54 year. His attendance for that year could be worked out using his start date at the school and the start and end date of that school year. What I was trying to get across is that the "re-ad" figure can only be used as an attendance figure if the student has been enrolled for the full school year. That is where you are going wrong trying to suggest it represents days attendended and ending up with crossover for the NYC records. You need to abandon that idea. It is wrong. There was no "Harvey" at Beauregard and Lee at PS 44 during the same time-frame. It is you and Armstrong misunderstanding the records - combined with Myra Derouse allowing herself to be convinced that the little guy who hung out with Voebel named Bobby Newman was "Harvey". That photo identified by Myra as being "Harvey" at Mardi Gras is just icing on the cake. It is Bobby Newman, and I dare you or Armstrong top prove me wrong by getting old school magazines and finding another photo of Bobby for comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 I dare you or Armstrong top prove me wrong Not how it works mate.... You prove what you have is authentic and correct. John already spoke with Myra and got an answer... went to the archives and got the photos. What have you done to prove it's Bobby Newman... other than just say so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Parker Posted August 6, 2015 Author Share Posted August 6, 2015 I dare you or Armstrong top prove me wrong Not how it works mate.... You prove what you have is authentic and correct. John already spoke with Myra and got an answer... went to the archives and got the photos. What have you done to prove it's Bobby Newman... other than just say so? Of course it is how it works. You should not be relying on one person's memory when the identity can be established by more certain methods - unless you are concerned that won't give you the result you want. The mardi gras photo does not look like any other photo of Oswald - not those you have labelled as "Lee" and not those labelled as Harvey". That should set off alarm bells. But not with you guys. You just let that little fact skate on past, Myra said it was "Harvey" and that's all that matters. But since I believe Myra is actually remembering Bobby Newman as the non-existent "Harvey".... and she has identified a photo of someone who looks nothing like Oswald as being "Harvey", I think I can reasonably claim it is actually a photo of Bobby until proven otherwise. Glad to see you have backed away from any further debate on the Beauregard school records. I hope these claims will now be dropped from the list of "proofs". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 But since I believe Once you believe Greg... you can reasonably claim anything you like. The same thing is still missing from your post... anyone saying that was Bobby... I think I can reasonably claim it is actually a photo of Bobby until proven otherwise You making a "claim" is not proof of a fact "until otherwise proven". you did not "prove" anything in that post Greg... you BELIEVED in that post. And once again the terms tautology and disingenuous are lost on you. That Myra said that was Harvey is FACT... that Myra recognized certain photos as Harvey and others as not is FACT... that John Pic remembers the images the same way only in reverse for his brother Lee is FACT which corroborates Myra's memory and identification of those images. So far only you alone has mentioned Bobby Newman. you. alone. backed by belief. === and here we have this entire thread in a single post, a single sentence: Greg's "claims", based on his "beliefs", are to be accepted as "Fact" until otherwise proven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Tracy Parnell Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 I dare you or Armstrong top prove me wrong Not how it works mate.... You prove what you have is authentic and correct. John already spoke with Myra and got an answer... went to the archives and got the photos. What have you done to prove it's Bobby Newman... other than just say so? Pardon me, but I don't really trust Myra's 40 year old memory here. I think Greg is right and she is misremembering Newman or someone else as "Harvey". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Parker Posted August 6, 2015 Author Share Posted August 6, 2015 I dare you or Armstrong top prove me wrong Not how it works mate.... You prove what you have is authentic and correct. John already spoke with Myra and got an answer... went to the archives and got the photos. What have you done to prove it's Bobby Newman... other than just say so? Pardon me, but I don't really trust Myra's 40 year old memory here. I think Greg is right and she is misremembering Newman or someone else as "Harvey". Myra is the only person who claimed Lee preferred to be called "Harvey". That is an implanted memory via Armstrong. Myra is the only person who remembers a piano falling on "Harvey". Even though this incident involved Voebel - he never mentioned it. Good reason for that. The piano fell on Newman, not Oswald. Given these facts, I'm not surprised in the least that she ID'd a photo that looks nothing like any other photo of Oswald as being "Harvey". I have to conclude it is Newman since Newman matches her verbal description of "Harvey" and this photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 (edited) Greg... This is still just you saying it... Your beliefs, speculated upon, are not facts. They remain your assumptions until proven. Voebel not being asked about it does not mean it did not happen. You've proven nothing related to this Bobby, nothing. But you repeatedly make claims as if you did. When do you post the support for your beliefs so they can be taken seriously? You conclude... so what? What does the evidence state? It states that both Myra and Pic do not recognize that as Lee... Prove otherwise Edited August 9, 2015 by David Josephs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Gaal Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 (edited) DAVID COULD YOU START A CATHY PHOTO THREAD ?? BESIDES THE ROBERT IMAGE ANOMALY THERE ARE OSWALD IMAGE PROBLEMS. IMAGE DOSENT LOOK CONSISTENT WITH OTHERS PHOTOS SAID TIME FRAME. GOLLY HOW MANY PHOTO ANOMALIES CAN ONE FELLOW HAVE ? THANKS gaal Edited August 9, 2015 by Steven Gaal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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