Gerald Ford And Howard Brennan

[Ron Ecker]

And what about Jack Ruby (on Nov. 22) telephoning his sister Eileen in Chicago and telling her that he might fly to Chicago to see her that night?

What about it? Maybe he knew that if he didn't go see his sister that night, he might never see her again, at least not as a free man.

That's one possibility. But I know, you don't have to tell me, that's "just plain silly."

[David Von Pein]

Then why did he show up at the police station on several occasions after Oswald was arrested? Why did he go to the news conference the night of the 22nd and correct Henry Wade, making sure Oswald to tied to the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, as opposed to an anti-Castro group? These actions cast serious doubts on your scenario. Add in Ruby's telling of a friend to "come see the fireworks" along the motorcade route, his frenzied calls after the assassination, the number of calls and curious people he talks to leading up to his killing of Oswald, and the scenario becomes highly unlikely.

Jack Ruby liked to go where the action was happening. (I thought that fact was common knowledge by now amongst people interested in the JFK assassination.) So it doesn't surprise me in the least that he showed up numerous times at Dallas City Hall after Oswald was arrested. It's what I would EXPECT Jack Ruby to do. Plus, he knew a lot of cops. This made his presence in the police station more of a normal occurrence than anything out of the ordinary as far as many of the police officers stationed there were concerned.

As far as Ruby's knowledge of the "Fair Play For Cuba Committee" during Henry Wade's late-night news conference, there is a very logical explanation for that --- right here.

Also see the chapter called "Ruby And The Mob" on pages 1071—1144 of Vincent Bugliosi's "Reclaiming History". That chapter contains an excellent biography of Jack Ruby.

Edited August 12, 2015 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

RON ECKER SAID:

What about it? Maybe he knew that if he didn't go see his sister that night, he might never see her again, at least not as a free man.

That's one possibility. But I know, you don't have to tell me, that's "just plain silly."


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Okaaaaay, Ron. So Ruby is hired to rub out the patsy. And he surely knows that he should probably carry out that "rubbing out" job as soon as he can, so the patsy won't spill any more beans than he already might have spilled to the cops since the plotters (including Ruby) were too stupid to just kill Oswald after he left the Book Depository Building immediately after the assassination.

But Ruby decides to waste a bunch of time by phoning his two sisters (Eva and Eileen) on the afternoon and evening of November 22nd (and he wasted more time on the phone talking to several other people too). And on top of that foot-dragging that he did on the telephone that weekend, Ruby decides he just might want to fly out of Dallas and travel hundreds of miles away to Chicago, Illinois, so he can say goodbye for the last time to his sister Eileen. Which means he would have to very quickly hop on another plane at O'Hare International Airport (or whatever low-profile airport Chicago was using to accommodate hit men and other assorted criminals so they could slip in and out of town without attracting any undue attention) and fly almost immediately back to Dallas in order to complete his important assignment of murdering the patsy named Oswald.

Good theory, Ron. Nothing wrong with that logic at all.



(But at least I didn't use that "S" word you hate so much.) :-)

[Mark Knight]

(or whatever low-profile airport Chicago was using to accommodate hit men and other assorted criminals so they could slip in and out of town without attracting any undue attention)

Midway. That would likely be the other airport in Chicago.

[Ron Ecker]

Okaaaaay, Ron. So Ruby is hired to rub out the patsy.

I don't know why I'm doing this. I guess I just can't help it because I can't stand it.

Who said Ruby was hired to rub out the patsy? He was told to rub out the patsy. My guess is that something went wrong, Oswald was not eliminated as planned, so some of Jack's more dangerous acquaintances told him, "You're it, Jack. But don't worry, your sister and dogs will be taken care of." As Jim Marrs puts it in Crossfire, "There are no alternatives to Mob directives."

If you have acquaintances like Jack did who told you to go kill somebody, and you know they will kill you if you don't, would you not go through mental agony about it? Maybe want to go see your sister, maybe even leave the country or whatever? Or would you get right to work, calmly plotting your every move, like it was just another day in Dallas?

No need to answer, because I won't respond even if I have to get someone to lock me in a closet.

[David Von Pein]

MARK KNIGHT SAID:

Midway. That would likely be the other airport in Chicago.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Yes. That's a good alternate choice, Mark.

But even Midway is a pretty good-sized airport. I'm thinking Ruby might have wanted to use DuPage Airport, which is a general aviation facility located 29 miles west of Chicago. If Jack wanted to keep a very low profile while visiting his sister for the last time before plugging Oswald, I think DuPage might have been his best bet. And on his drive into Chicago, he could (of course) stop by a deli in his old neighborhood where he used to live and pick up some sandwiches to take to Eileen too.

Edited August 12, 2015 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

Who said Ruby was hired to rub out the patsy? He was told to rub out the patsy.

And the evidence for that extraordinary assertion is.....?

Edited August 12, 2015 by David Von Pein

[Brian Schmidt]

Then why did he show up at the police station on several occasions after Oswald was arrested? Why did he go to the news conference the night of the 22nd and correct Henry Wade, making sure Oswald to tied to the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, as opposed to an anti-Castro group? These actions cast serious doubts on your scenario. Add in Ruby's telling of a friend to "come see the fireworks" along the motorcade route, his frenzied calls after the assassination, the number of calls and curious people he talks to leading up to his killing of Oswald, and the scenario becomes highly unlikely.

Jack Ruby liked to go where the action was happening. (I thought that fact was common knowledge by now amongst people interested in the JFK assassination.) So it doesn't surprise me in the least that he showed up numerous times at Dallas City Hall after Oswald was arrested. It's what I would EXPECT Jack Ruby to do. Plus, he knew a lot of cops. This made his presence in the police station more of a normal occurrence than anything out of the ordinary as far as many of the police officers stationed there were concerned.

As far as Ruby's knowledge of the "Fair Play For Cuba Committee" during Henry Wade's late-night news conference, there is a very logical explanation for that --- right here.

Also see the chapter called "Ruby And The Mob" on pages 1071—1144 of Vincent Bugliosi's "Reclaiming History". That chapter contains an excellent biography of Jack Ruby.

I never said it was out of the ordinary for Ruby to hang around the police station or be around action. I agree that it's part of his personality. But it clashes with your original assertion that Ruby just happened to be around the police station and had no prior knowledge of Oswald's movements.

As far as the "Fair Plat for Cuba Committee" comment, I'm not saying that Ruby wouldn't have known that, I'm calling attention to the fact that Ruby felt the need to correct Wade at all.

For further reading on Ruby, I'd suggest reading Larry Hancock's "Someone Would Have Talked," in which he dedicates a lot of space to covering Ruby and his movements and associations during this time.

[David Von Pein]

It's funny, isn't it Brian, that two people can look at the exact same facts and the exact same circumstances and yet come to totally opposite conclusions?

The nature of "human" life, I suppose.

But it is my firm belief that Jack Ruby's known actions and movements from November 22 to November 24 practically eliminate the idea that any pre-planned conspiracy (or "rub out") occurred in the basement of Dallas City Hall at 11:21 AM CST on 11/24/63.

Edited August 12, 2015 by David Von Pein

[Kenneth Drew]

Could it be here that Mr. Von Pein just MAY be willing to admit that at least one member of the Warren Commission was not 100% truthful when talking about the JFK assassination?

If so...this is a day I thought I'd never see. I thought that, in DVP's world, only CT'er lied or thought that anyone connected with the WC had lied.

I'm sure he'll likely find an excuse to reconcile why Ford's statement contradicts the evidence, but how neither the evidence nor Ford's words contain a lie. I'm just not certain how he'll perform such a contortionist act, but I'm sure we'll see it soon.

Mark, surely you are acquainted with DVP's famous statement: "I wish I had your total freedom, Ken. You can just make up stuff from pure nothingness all day long and try to pass off such tommyrot as an "open mind"."

He has said many times that he is not free to speak the truth

Seems as if he and the WC have some things in common.

Edited August 13, 2015 by Kenneth Drew

[David Von Pein]

He [DVP] has said many times that he is not free to speak the truth.

Absolute nonsense. I've never once said anything of the kind, and Drew knows it.

Edited August 13, 2015 by David Von Pein