Spitting on Stevenson

[Steve Thomas]

I had to laugh.

Mr. LIEBELER - Are you a member or have you ever attended any meetings of the John Birch Society?
Mr. PAINE - I am not a member. I have been to one or, I guess chiefly one meeting of theirs.
Mr. LIEBELER - Where was that?
Mr. PAINE - That was in Dallas?
Mr. LIEBELER - When?
Mr. PAINE - That was the night Stevenson spoke in Dallas.
The CHAIRMAN - When?
Mr. PAINE - The night Stevenson spoke in Dallas, U.N. Day.

Mr. LIEBELER - The Birch meeting which you were down to was sparsely attended?
Mr. PAINE - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did this meeting have anything to do with the activity that occurred at Mr. Stevenson's meeting in Dallas?
Mr. PAINE - No. You see they were taking place at the same time. It was rather sparsely attended, most of them were down spitting on Stevenson.

Steve Thomas

[James DiEugenio]

Funny.

He says its the one meeting he goes to of the JBS, and that happens to be the one.

[Steve Thomas]

Funny.

He says its the one meeting he goes to of the JBS, and that happens to be the one.

James,

I have been looking for some connection between the Miller/Whitter gunrunning case, the right wing activities of Larry Schmidt and the Joiner family, Lawrence Howard and Loren Hall running guns through Dallas, and the anti-Castro Cubans.

Frank Ellsworth told the Secret Service that John Thomas Masen had told him (Ellsworth) that Manuel Rodriguuez Orcarberro had tried to buy bazookas, machine guns, and other heavy equipment from him (Masen). Masen had told Ellsworth that George F. Parrel was a Cuban national who “was as associate of Rodriguez”, and who had also tried buying guns from Masen. Masen told Ellsworth that Rodriguez and Parrel had previously made purchases from him and that they had a large cashe of arms in the Dallas area.

See: Warren Commission Document 853 - SS Rowley Memorandum of 24 Apr 1964 re: Manuel Rodriguez w/Attachments

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11250#relPageId=4&tab=page

One interesting thing, Warren Commission Document #320 is a memo from SS Agent Rowley. On page 162 of that Report there is a newspaper article from October 27, 1963 issue of the Dallas Times Herald concerning the Stevenson incident.

In the article, Bobbie Joiner said there was no preplanning for Stevenson incident, but that, “some of the signs used were stored at former Major General Edwin A. Walker’s headquarters on Turtle Creek Blvd.”

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=162

This was the same incident that Larry Schmidt took credit for in one of his letters to Bernard Weissman. Schmidt was also quoted in the same October 27^th issue

On page 6 of Wallace Heitman’s April 29 Report, right in the middle of a discussion about the Cubans in Garland, he says that his source said that (blank) and (blank) (Quintana and Castro?) had told him that they had attended the meeting at the Dallas Municipal Auditorium in October, 1963 where Adlai Stevenson had given a speech and that they had worn placards outside the Auditorium which were anti-Stevenson in context.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=215

I'm not sure what this proves, other than these people were at the same place at the same time. Did they know each other? I don't know.

From the WC testimony of Michael Paine:

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/paine_m1.htm

Mr. LIEBELER - Are you a member of the American Civil Liberties Union?

Mr. PAINE - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - When did you become a member of that organization?

Mr. PAINE - I suppose you become a member as soon as you contribute money, and I may have contributed money a good many years back. I didn't start going to a meeting of the organization until I was--I have only been to about four perhaps, in Dallas, four meetings.

Mr. LIEBELER - Are you a member or have you ever attended any meetings of the John Birch Society?

Mr. PAINE - I am not a member. I have been to one or, I guess chiefly one meeting of theirs.

Mr. LIEBELER - Where was that?

Mr. PAINE - That was in Dallas?

Mr. LIEBELER - When?

Mr. PAINE - That was the night Stevenson spoke in Dallas.

The CHAIRMAN - When?

Mr. PAINE - The night Stevenson spoke in Dallas, U.N. Day.

Mr. PAINE - I had been seeking to go to a Birch meeting for some time, and then I was invited on this night so I went. It was an introductory meeting.

Mr. DULLES - On the 9th of November?

Mr. PAINE - It was November something, I don't know what, a Wednesday or Thursday night.

Mr. LIEBELER - For the record I think the record should indicate that Mr. Stevenson was in Dallas on or about October 24, 1963.

Mr. PAINE - When I went to the ACLU meeting he (Oswald) then got up, stood up and reported what had happened at the meeting of the far right which had occurred at convention hall the day before, U.N. Day, they called it U.S. Day, and I think Walker had spoken then.

From this I gathered that he was doing more or less the same thing-- I thought he was, I didn't inquire how he spent his free time but I supposed he was going around to right wing groups being familiarizing himself for whatever his purposes were as I was... this was the only concrete evidence I had of how he spent, might have spent some of his time. It happened in the ACLU meeting in late October. I suppose he was familiar with the right-wing groups and activities, and movements. And certainly familiar with Walker; yes.

So Oswald was at the anti-Stevenson rally at the same time as Larry Schmidt, Bobby Joiner, members of the John Birch Society and members of SNFE/Alpha 66?

Steve Thomas

[Greg Parker]

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10871&search=byrd#relPageId=7&tab=page

[Greg Parker]

The only witnesses to Oswald standing up and saying anything were Michael Paine and Frank Krystenick.

Greg Olds was there - and presumably chaired the meeting but failed to recall Oswald at all - let alone recall him saying anything. Byrd Helligas, did remember him because Oswald had chatted to him at one stage, but again, he did not recall Oswald saying anything political at all that night.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pdf/WH22_CE_1388.pdf

Given who the witnesses against Oswald are here, I would take the allegations with a grain of salt.

[Greg Parker]

Funny.

He says its the one meeting he goes to of the JBS, and that happens to be the one.

James,

I have been looking for some connection between the Miller/Whitter gunrunning case, the right wing activities of Larry Schmidt and the Joiner family, Lawrence Howard and Loren Hall running guns through Dallas, and the anti-Castro Cubans.

Frank Ellsworth told the Secret Service that John Thomas Masen had told him (Ellsworth) that Manuel Rodriguuez Orcarberro had tried to buy bazookas, machine guns, and other heavy equipment from him (Masen). Masen had told Ellsworth that George F. Parrel was a Cuban national who “was as associate of Rodriguez”, and who had also tried buying guns from Masen. Masen told Ellsworth that Rodriguez and Parrel had previously made purchases from him and that they had a large cashe of arms in the Dallas area.

See: Warren Commission Document 853 - SS Rowley Memorandum of 24 Apr 1964 re: Manuel Rodriguez w/Attachments

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11250#relPageId=4&tab=page

One interesting thing, Warren Commission Document #320 is a memo from SS Agent Rowley. On page 162 of that Report there is a newspaper article from October 27, 1963 issue of the Dallas Times Herald concerning the Stevenson incident.

In the article, Bobbie Joiner said there was no preplanning for Stevenson incident, but that, “some of the signs used were stored at former Major General Edwin A. Walker’s headquarters on Turtle Creek Blvd.”

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=162

This was the same incident that Larry Schmidt took credit for in one of his letters to Bernard Weissman. Schmidt was also quoted in the same October 27^th issue

On page 6 of Wallace Heitman’s April 29 Report, right in the middle of a discussion about the Cubans in Garland, he says that his source said that (blank) and (blank) (Quintana and Castro?) had told him that they had attended the meeting at the Dallas Municipal Auditorium in October, 1963 where Adlai Stevenson had given a speech and that they had worn placards outside the Auditorium which were anti-Stevenson in context.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=215

I'm not sure what this proves, other than these people were at the same place at the same time. Did they know each other? I don't know.

From the WC testimony of Michael Paine:

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/paine_m1.htm

Mr. LIEBELER - Are you a member of the American Civil Liberties Union?

Mr. PAINE - Yes.

Mr. LIEBELER - When did you become a member of that organization?

Mr. PAINE - I suppose you become a member as soon as you contribute money, and I may have contributed money a good many years back. I didn't start going to a meeting of the organization until I was--I have only been to about four perhaps, in Dallas, four meetings.

Mr. LIEBELER - Are you a member or have you ever attended any meetings of the John Birch Society?

Mr. PAINE - I am not a member. I have been to one or, I guess chiefly one meeting of theirs.

Mr. LIEBELER - Where was that?

Mr. PAINE - That was in Dallas?

Mr. LIEBELER - When?

Mr. PAINE - That was the night Stevenson spoke in Dallas.

The CHAIRMAN - When?

Mr. PAINE - The night Stevenson spoke in Dallas, U.N. Day.

Mr. PAINE - I had been seeking to go to a Birch meeting for some time, and then I was invited on this night so I went. It was an introductory meeting.

Mr. DULLES - On the 9th of November?

Mr. PAINE - It was November something, I don't know what, a Wednesday or Thursday night.

Mr. LIEBELER - For the record I think the record should indicate that Mr. Stevenson was in Dallas on or about October 24, 1963.

Mr. PAINE - When I went to the ACLU meeting he (Oswald) then got up, stood up and reported what had happened at the meeting of the far right which had occurred at convention hall the day before, U.N. Day, they called it U.S. Day, and I think Walker had spoken then.

From this I gathered that he was doing more or less the same thing-- I thought he was, I didn't inquire how he spent his free time but I supposed he was going around to right wing groups being familiarizing himself for whatever his purposes were as I was... this was the only concrete evidence I had of how he spent, might have spent some of his time. It happened in the ACLU meeting in late October. I suppose he was familiar with the right-wing groups and activities, and movements. And certainly familiar with Walker; yes.

So Oswald was at the anti-Stevenson rally at the same time as Larry Schmidt, Bobby Joiner, members of the John Birch Society and members of SNFE/Alpha 66?

Steve Thomas

What does "chiefly" one meeting mean? Sounds like doubllespeak.