Can we possibly AGREE....

[Ron Ecker]

Jim, if Taylor never informed his civilian boss that the commander in chief was dead -- that would be an egregious breach of duty, right?

The Pentagon not informing the Secretary of Defense that the President was dead -- isn't that scandalous?

There could only be one explanation. The same reason they would want as many of the other Cabinet members as possible in an airplane out somewhere over the Pacific Ocean, with the code book for communicating with Washington coincidentally missing from the plane.

[Sandy Larsen]

Jim, if Taylor never informed his civilian boss that the commander in chief was dead -- that would be an egregious breach of duty, right?

The Pentagon not informing the Secretary of Defense that the President was dead -- isn't that scandalous?

There could only be one explanation. The same reason they would want as many of the other Cabinet members as possible in an airplane out somewhere over the Pacific Ocean, with the code book for communicating with Washington coincidentally missing from the plane.

Is it known who was responsible for sending the cabinet members on this trip?

Was Taylor informed of JFK's death but not McNamara?

(Sorry if this has already been discussed.)

[Ron Ecker]

Is it known who was responsible for sending the cabinet members on this trip?

Was Taylor informed of JFK's death but not McNamara?

(Sorry if this has already been discussed.)

There was a joint U.S.-Japan cabinet-level committee on trade and economic affairs that met annually in November or December beginning in 1961. In 1963 it was supposed to meet in Japan on November 25-27.

According to Taylor's son, Taylor at the Pentagon was buzzed by the command center with the news of the shooting, and Taylor called McNamara out of a meeting to inform him. Not so, according to William Manchester, who says that McNamara was informed by being handed a UPI dispatch. Not so, according to McNamara himself, who wrote in his book that no one at the Pentagon told him anything or handed him anything. He got the news through a phone call from Bobby Kennedy. McNamara recounts this as if there is nothing at all strange or amazing about it.

Edited May 18, 2016 by Ron Ecker

[Sandy Larsen]

Is it known who was responsible for sending the cabinet members on this trip?

Was Taylor informed of JFK's death but not McNamara?

(Sorry if this has already been discussed.)

There was a joint U.S.-Japan cabinet-level committee on trade and economic affairs that met annually in November or December beginning in 1961. In 1963 it was supposed to meet in Japan on November 25-27.

According to Taylor's son, Taylor at the Pentagon was buzzed by the command center with the news of the shooting, and Taylor called McNamara out of a meeting to inform him. Not so, according to William Manchester, who says that McNamara was informed by being handed a UPI dispatch. Not so, according to McNamara himself, who wrote in his book that no one at the Pentagon told him anything or handed him anything. He got the news through a phone call from Bobby Kennedy. McNamara recounts this as if there is nothing at all strange or amazing about it.

Thanks Ron.

Your prior post pretty much said that the cabinet members were intentionally sent away as a part of the plot. I take it, then, that you believe someone privy to the plot had the meeting in Japan moved back a few days to coincide with the planned assassination.

It is odd that nobody at the Pentagon told McNamara. Maybe they were all too busy preparing to alter Kennedy's head wound... I mean, to assist in the autopsy by directing it.

[Ron Ecker]

It is odd that nobody at the Pentagon told McNamara.

There are behaviorial similarities between 11/22/63 and 9/11 that suggest an MO in such situations. That MO seems to be "lie low and stay ignorant." On 11/22/63 the Secretary of Defense continued with a budget meeting after being told that JFK had been shot. On 9/11, the Secretary of Defense continued with a regular daily CIA briefing in his office after both towers had been hit. His deputy Paul Wolfowitz also continued with a meeting of his own. And when Acting JCS Chairman Myers was asked why he continued with a meeting with a senator on Capitol Hill after the second tower was hit, Myers said, "No one told us of that." (He later changed his story to something more credible, i.e. the meeting was over when he got the news). And just as McNamara wasn't told by anyone in the Pentagon that JFK had been shot (he got the news in a phone call from Bobby), Rumsfeld did not WANT to be told anything by anyone in the Pentagon during the attacks. When some of his top staff went by his office to see if he wanted to go with them to the command center (the logical place to go to find out what was going on), Rumsfeld declined, saying he wanted to "make a few phone calls." But neither in his 9/11 commission testimony nor in any interviews did he ever mention making a phone call to anybody while meeting with his daily briefer. The seeming lack of basic curiosity or even concern shown by the Secretaries of Defense on 11/22/63 and 9/11, according to their own weird accounts, is striking,

P.S. And of course we all know about Bush and the pet goat story that couldn't be interrupted by an attack on America.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Ron Ecker

[Sandy Larsen]

It is odd that nobody at the Pentagon told McNamara.

There are behaviorial similarities between 11/22/63 and 9/11 that suggest an MO in such situations. That MO seems to be "lie low and stay ignorant." On 11/22/63 the Secretary of Defense continued with a budget meeting after being told that JFK had been shot. On 9/11, the Secretary of Defense continued with a regular daily CIA briefing in his office after both towers had been hit. His deputy Paul Wolfowitz also continued with a meeting of his own. And when Acting JCS Chairman Myers was asked why he continued with a meeting with a senator on Capitol Hill after the second tower was hit, Myers said, "No one told us of that." (He later changed his story to something more credible, i.e. the meeting was over when he got the news). And just as McNamara wasn't told by anyone in the Pentagon that JFK had been shot (he got the news in a phone call from Bobby), Rumsfeld did not WANT to be told anything by anyone in the Pentagon during the attacks. When some of his top staff went by his office to see if he wanted to go with them to the command center (the logical place to go to find out what was going on), Rumsfeld declined, saying he wanted to "make a few phone calls." But neither in his 9/11 commission testimony nor in any interviews did he ever mention making a phone call to anybody while meeting with his daily briefer. The seeming lack of basic curiosity or even concern shown by the Secretaries of Defense on 11/22/63 and 9/11, according to their own weird accounts, is striking,

P.S. And of course we all know about Bush and the pet goat story that couldn't be interrupted by an attack on America.

The behavior you describe is that of a person who isn't surprised by an incident. That's the only explanation I can come up with.

[Ron Ecker]

On 11/22/63 the Chief of Naval Operations, JCS, was Admiral David L. McDonald. He wrote an autobiography entitled The Reminiscences of Admiral David Lamar McDonald, published in 1976.

The book is out of print and unavailable new or used at Amazon.com. If anyone can get a hold of a copy of the book somehow, it would be interesting to know what if anything he says about where he was on 11/22/63.

The book is reportedly located at these two libraries:

University at North Carolina at Chapel Hill (UNC has multiple libraries.)

Contact

Nimitz Library, United States Naval Academy

Contact

:

Librarians are very helpful. They'll look up information in a book for you, and send you photocopies.

Your local library can request an interlibrary loan and get the book for you, or so I understand. (I've never done it myself.)

I contacted UNC, but they were unwilling to give me any help on the book's contents by phone or mail.

I requested an interlibrary loan through my local library, and the book was not available.

So I guess the book's secrets are safe from my prying eyes.

[Sandy Larsen]

On 11/22/63 the Chief of Naval Operations, JCS, was Admiral David L. McDonald. He wrote an autobiography entitled The Reminiscences of Admiral David Lamar McDonald, published in 1976.

The book is out of print and unavailable new or used at Amazon.com. If anyone can get a hold of a copy of the book somehow, it would be interesting to know what if anything he says about where he was on 11/22/63.

The book is reportedly located at these two libraries:

University at North Carolina at Chapel Hill (UNC has multiple libraries.)

Contact

Nimitz Library, United States Naval Academy

Contact

:

Librarians are very helpful. They'll look up information in a book for you, and send you photocopies.

Your local library can request an interlibrary loan and get the book for you, or so I understand. (I've never done it myself.)

I contacted UNC, but they were unwilling to give me any help on the book's contents by phone or mail.

I requested an interlibrary loan through my local library, and the book was not available.

So I guess the book's secrets are safe from my prying eyes.

Wow! Sorry about that, Ron.

I was astonished to read that the UNC librarian was unwilling to help you. Because it was common knowledge when I was young that librarians are very helpful. And not just in helping their patrons find books.

When I read about your experience, I did some online searching (for example, on the phrase "librarians are very helpful") and I have come to the conclusion that it is a regional thing. Or that things have changed.

Now, in my searching I did come across this Library-of-UC-San-Diego webpage where they say "UC San Diego librarians are available to help with your research needs—whatever they may be!" Well, I just happened to be living in California when I learned the saying that "librarians are very helpful." So it looks like it might be a State of California thing. I just assumed that it was universal throughout the United states. How sad that it is not!

In my searching on this topic, I was also reminded of a fact I learned in college: That libraries are very generous when it comes to loaning books and various other services, but absolutely not so with photocopies. You need to bring plenty of dimes when visiting a library.

Nobody at a library blinks an eye if you check out ten books, use a room for a meeting, use a microfilm machine, or any of a number of free services. But don't even think of asking for a single photocopied page on the house. That dichotomy has always struck me as odd. It's like, to the head librarian, time is free, real estate is free, machines are free. But hey, those photocopies don't grow on trees you know!

[Ron Ecker]

UNC will help anyone who comes to the library. But they won't look up things in books for anyone who calls who emails them from anywhere in the world (in my case, Florida).

Edited July 13, 2016 by Ron Ecker