A possible fourth person injured in Dealey Plaza?

[Denny Zartman]

Hello everyone,

Reading through Vince Palamara's "JFK - From Parkland To Bethesda" revealed a tiny bit of information that triggered my memories of three Dealey Plaza witness stories.

A. J. Millican:

"A man standing on the South side of Elm Street was either hit in the foot or the ankle and fell down."

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1136#relPageId=504

Mal Couch:

“I started toward the building where I had seen the rifle in the window. Then I saw something very weird. There was a trail of blood from the spot where the shooting occurred to the entrance of the Texas School Book Depository. I pointed it out to a man with me."

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/couch.htm

Jean Hill:

"...I ran across through there and started up the hill. When I looked down on the ground, I mean, as I was running up the hill to catch that man, I looked down and saw some red stuff and I thought, "Oh, they got him, he's bleeding," and this is embarrassing, but it turned out to be Koolade or some sort of red drink...when I looked down at this red stuff on the ground, I said, "Oh," you know, to myself, "they hit him."...When I stopped to look down at the grass, at this red stuff and when I looked back up, by that time everyone was screaming and moving around..."

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/hill_j.htm

Now, here is the relevant quote from "JFK - From Parkland To Bethesda" Page 46, regarding a statement made by Parkland Hospital witness #38. Nurse Bertha L. Lozano:

"A technician came to the desk and asked me to expect a private patient who was bleeding... Blood technicians came to ask me who 'Mr. X' was who did not have an E. R. number. Hematology also came with the same problem and was told the same thing."

We're all familiar with the initial (and assumed to be erroneous) news reports that indicated a Secret Service man was also shot and/or killed in Dealey Plaza during the assassination of John Kennedy.

Might that report of a Secret Service man being shot and the Millican, Couch, Hill, and Lozano's statements be connected in some way?.

Thanks

Edited November 12, 2016 by Denny Zartman
Google is better than Bing

[Michael Walton]

Denny,

Regarding the Couch statement, he and the other reporter seeing the barrel being withdrawn from the window, it certainly debunks the "Oswald did it" theory. If they had already heard all of the shots, the guy ribs him and says look up, he looks up and sees the barrel being withdrawn, I can't imagine old LHO having been up there, just pulling it in to then start his mad dash to stash it well hidden between boxes, run clear across to the other side of the 6th floor stairway, down to the 2nd floor where he then switches from huffing and puffing to calm breathing just in time for him to buy his Coca Cola - and Baker confronting him.

What we don't know - but I wish I knew - was who exactly was up there building the "nest," throwing down the spent shells, and pulling the barrel out of the window causing the "tell" of the lone assassin shooting from there? It'd be fascinating to know but we probably never will.

As for the bloody trail, back to the TSBD, I believe that was a piece of Kennedy's head that was carried from the road into or near the building.  Why the guy picked it up and went there of all places is beyond me.  This may also have been the piece that Jackie might have been reaching for when she climbed out of the car. His statement, too, confirms the mass confusion of what was going on seconds after the shots.  People were running around like chickens with their heads cut off and the Bad Guys were certainly banking on this, of people watching the motorcade calmly and least expecting something like this happening.

I am putting together a post that will show a rear head shot that looks almost exactly like JFK's Z film head shot and from all appearances, this statement by Couch certainly debunks that all of the shots came from the rear.  If Kennedy had only been shot from the rear, then that bloody piece of his head would have flown into the car, not backward onto the trunk where it was picked up by someone and carried leaving a bloody trail. The clip I have of the head shot certainly confirms this, at least it does for me.

[Robert Prudhomme]

Something I've always found a bit odd about Couch et al seeing a rifle barrel being withdrawn into a 6th floor window, after hearing shots being fired. If Couch saw a rifle barrel being withdrawn, how did he know it wouldn't be stuck back out the window, and more shots fired? Wouldn't his natural instinct be to point his camera at this window, on the off chance he could get video footage of the shooter, instead of panning the sidewalk in front of the TSBD, and then charging off for the Grassy Knoll?

Sorry but, I find Couch's story a bit hard to swallow.

Further in his testimony, he claims they had to pound their driver on the back to get him to stop the car, yet the Darnell film clearly shows the entire motorcade halted on Elm St. and Houston St., right about the time Couch jumped out of the car.

Edited November 13, 2016 by Robert Prudhomme

[David Von Pein]

Here's a radio interview with Mal Couch on 11/22/63....plus Couch's film and some more stuff:

http://dvp-potpourri.blogspot.com/2011/05/mal-couch.html

 

Edited November 13, 2016 by David Von Pein

[Michael Walton]

Bob,

I think he heard the shots, was ribbed, then looked up.  If all of the shots happened within a 7-second time frame, that would have been hardly enough time for him to pick up his camera and film it. He said that just before the shots he had stopped filming, probably because he could see the underpass ahead and assumed that since the parade was over there was nothing else of importance to film.

[Robert Prudhomme]

I also forgot to mention that Couch claimed the men directly below the 6th floor window (Williams, Jarman and Norman) were craning their necks out of the window and looking above them. This was adamantly denied by Bonnie Ray Williams in his WC testimony, despite being a claim made by FBI agents.

Michael

He may have stopped filming and not have been able to catch the rifle being pulled back in on film but, don't you find it suspicious he didn't focus his camera on the window and begin filming, in the hopes that the shooter might reappear? He managed to get his camera operating mere seconds after the last shot, and was able to capture Baker on film running. Why no film of the 6th floor?

Edited November 13, 2016 by Robert Prudhomme

[Michael Walton]

I wish he had, Bob.  It would have been fascinating if he had captured it. I think in the rush and mad confusion, he was probably looking all over the place, picked up his camera, started filming, and then captured the "gold standard" footage of a tall, short, dwarf Lovelady and Frazier walking on that short street

And if T Graves read this - Tom I'm only jesting here, not smearing you or anything

 

[Robert Prudhomme]

I think he made it up, just like he made up seeing Williams, Jarman and Norman sticking their heads out of the 5th floor window to look up at the 6th floor, and just like he made up having to pound on the driver's back to get him to stop the car, when it is quite obvious from his film his car was sitting still with the rest of the motorcade.

Couldn't have that limo stopped on Elm St.

Edited November 14, 2016 by Robert Prudhomme

[Thomas Graves]

On 11/13/2016 at 2:54 PM, Michael Walton said:

I wish he had, Bob.  It would have been fascinating if he had captured it. I think in the rush and mad confusion, he [He] was probably looking all over the place, picked up his camera, started filming, and then captured the "gold standard" footage of a tall, [the] short, dwarf Lovelady and Frazier walking [/ running with the slightly taller Shelley] on [down] that short street, [and Shelley's veering off to the left towards the "island."]. 

And if T Graves reads this - Tom I'm only jesting here, not smearing you or anything

 

Dear Michael,

No problem.

--  Tommy

Edited November 15, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Michael Walton]

OMG, so funny Tom.  Love the way you crossed out words except those to make the reply.

Great job!

[Denny Zartman]

On ‎11‎/‎13‎/‎2016 at 9:16 AM, Michael Walton said:

As for the bloody trail, back to the TSBD, I believe that was a piece of Kennedy's head that was carried from the road into or near the building.  Why the guy picked it up and went there of all places is beyond me.  This may also have been the piece that Jackie might have been reaching for when she climbed out of the car. His statement, too, confirms the mass confusion of what was going on seconds after the shots.  People were running around like chickens with their heads cut off and the Bad Guys were certainly banking on this, of people watching the motorcade calmly and least expecting something like this happening.

Thanks for the response, Michael. I might have to disagree with one part of your characterization of the mass confusion. Dark Complected Man and Umbrella Man were definitely not running around in confused panic.

That's an interesting theory about the blood trail, but it still seems to leave so many unanswered questions.

If the red stuff on the ground was a blood trail left from a head fragment, who 1. also saw the red fluid on the ground and later 2. investigated it and identified it as snow cone flavoring, and 3. told Jean Hill that it was snow cone flavoring?

I seem to remember a story of a bone fragment being found in Dealey Plaza by someone who initially doubted it was a bone fragment from JFK because it specifically did not have flesh or blood on it. (Though I also seem to understand that the Harper fragment had part of the scalp and hairline still on it.)

Who initially reported that a Secret Service agent was also shot during the JFK assassination? When was this story officially retracted and who retracted it, if anyone?

What about A. J. Millican's statement abut seeing someone hit in the foot or leg?

And what about Bertha Lozano's statements? I can't imagine that some other V.I.P. was in Dallas on November 22 and sustained an injury that was bleeding to such a degree that a hematologist and a blood technician were apparently summoned. If so, why the need to keep it secret with no name being put on the record or even a patient number assigned?