A Couple of Real Gems from the "Harvey and Lee" Website

[Sandy Larsen]

3 hours ago, Bernie Laverick said:

6 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

I haven't offered an explanation because I didn't know or claim that Lee's skull was found in Harvey's grave.

Well it was. So now you know. We know it was Lee's skull because it fitted perfectly with LHO's own medical record.

David showed that Lee's teeth don't match those of the corpse.

Jim showed that Lee's front tooth had been knocked out, and that doesn't match the corpse.

And I've said many times that there are multiple ways the exhumation findings could have been faked.

 

Edited October 14, 2017 by Sandy Larsen

[Michael Walton]

2 hours ago, Bernie Laverick said:

One, the doppelganger, did the shooting because who would ever believe that JFK shot JFK?

I was thinking of that too a while back.  I mean take a look at this:

Now some people are going to say they don't look the same while others do.  But the similarities are there. But to think that by some million to one chance they found not only a near identical clone thousands of miles away in Hungary to match up with the Texas kid - and even their Moms too (except one was unsmiling and had a unibrow) - is really funny as in funny strange.

[Michael Walton]

27 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

David showed that Lee's teeth don't match those of the corpse.

Jim showed that Lee's front tooth had been knocked out, and that doesn't match the corpse.

And I've said many times that there are multiple ways the exhumation findings could have been faked.

No one in the HL group has proven anything, Sandy.  All of you are too paranoid to see the truth of all of this and too stubborn to admit you're wrong.

Take a look at this:

It's obvious that based on the smiling one-and-only Oswald from his USMC photo compared to the teeth in the exhume photo that they match up fine.  It's the same person.  All of those little nuances of his teeth - the unevenness of them, the ridges in his enamel, and all the rest are all there.

Stop with the paranoia and stubbornness and accept the fact that this whole HL story is nothing but a funny-as-in-strange work of fiction.

[W. Tracy Parnell]

29 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

David showed that Lee's teeth don't match those of the corpse.

Jim showed that Lee's front tooth had been knocked out, and that doesn't match the corpse.

And I've said many times that there are multiple ways the exhumation findings could have been faked.

 

Absolutely not true. The Norton Report explained the inconsistencies in the dental charts. If you think something is wrong with the report, why not find an expert who can back you up? There were 3 or 4 instance of teeth being identical, that is how they were able to make the ID. And the "magic tooth" thing has been discussed endlessly here, nobody knows what the extent of the damage was but the probability is that he merely had a cut lip. In the famous photo, his lip is covering the tooth.

[W. Tracy Parnell]

8 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

To clarify, I don't know at what point the information was faked. That the exhumation team faked it is one possibility.

It would not have been necessary for the exhumation team to be aware of the Oswald Project to fake the part about the mastoidectomy scar. They merely would been instructed to make that claim for "National Security" reasons. Have them sign non-disclosure agreements with stiff penalties.

The JFK assassination was covered up. I don't why anybody who accepts that couldn't accept that a single finding in the exhumation (the lack of mastoidectomy scar) was likewise covered up.

 

A couple of problems with this scenario. First, who in the world is going to go along with a plot simply because they are told the "national security" is in jeopardy? They are not stupid, and are going to realize at that point there is a large scale JFK plot and they are a part of it. And they are going to do this for a few bucks? Also what about the secondary people such as the assistants to the doctors, the security and so on? Were they all paid off? And not one talked? We already know that people will not stay silent. Paul Groody ran around for years talking to anyone who would listen to his crackpot theories. So, if someone actually had knowledge (which they could presumably provide proof for) they would come forward and expose the plot to an investigative journalist.

[Sandy Larsen]

12 minutes ago, Michael Walton said:

Take a look at this:

It's obvious that based on the smiling one-and-only Oswald from his USMC photo compared to the teeth in the exhume photo that they match up fine.  It's the same person.  All of those little nuances of his teeth - the unevenness of them, the ridges in his enamel, and all the rest are all there.

Michael,

Thanks for showing us that the corpse's teeth match those of HARVEY Oswald.  LOL

 

[Sandy Larsen]

6 minutes ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

8 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

To clarify, I don't know at what point the information was faked. That the exhumation team faked it is one possibility.

It would not have been necessary for the exhumation team to be aware of the Oswald Project to fake the part about the mastoidectomy scar. They merely would been instructed to make that claim for "National Security" reasons. Have them sign non-disclosure agreements with stiff penalties.

The JFK assassination was covered up. I don't why anybody who accepts that couldn't accept that a single finding in the exhumation (the lack of mastoidectomy scar) was likewise covered up.

 

A couple of problems with this scenario. First, who in the world is going to go along with a plot simply because they are told the "national security" is in jeopardy?

There are many ways to make people not talk. For example, remind them of what happened to John Rosselli after he talked.

I'm not saying that that is what happened. I'm saying that it could have happened.

 

[Michael Walton]

7 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Michael,

Thanks for showing us that the corpse's teeth match those of HARVEY Oswald.  LOL

Good to hear you have a sense of humor, Sandy.  So I take it - was HARVEY the one who had the unibrow unsmiling Mom, right? If so, maybe he was thinking of her that day when he had his USMC photo taken, smiling away. "Look Mom! Don't be sad! Here's a big old smiling Harv for you!" LOL

 

[Jim Hargrove]

On 10/13/2017 at 4:36 PM, Jim Hargrove said:

In the fall of 1954, LEE Oswald was in the 9th grade at Beauregard JHS, where he became friends with a kid named Ed Voebel after Voebel witnessed him in a protracted fight with the Neumeyer brothers, Johnny and Mike.  Voebel and a couple of other kids attempted to patch Lee up.  This was in November. Voebel told the Warren Commission that Oswald lost a tooth in the fight.

Mr. JENNER. But you do remember that you attempted to help him when he was struck in the mouth on that occasion; is that right?
Mr. VOEBEL. Yes; I think he even lost a tooth from that. I think he was cut on the lip, and a tooth was knocked out.

Soon after the fight, Voebel took a famous photograph of Oswald that he eventually sold to LIFE magazine after the assassination.  It appears to show LEE Oswald with a missing tooth.

 

Here’s a close-up from Voebel’s photo:

About a half century later, after one of a number of meetings John Armstrong had with Marina (Oswald) Porter, she gave him all the original photos of the 1981 exhumation.  Here is one of them.

 

As you can see, there is no missing front tooth.

I have the Feb. 21, 1964 edition of LIFE magazine which contains a HUGE halftone reproduction of Voebel's photo that fills up all of page 70 and extends onto page 71. Now that I have a better scanner, I'll see if I can make a clearer image.

 

On 10/13/2017 at 5:54 PM, Bernie Laverick said:

No missing front tooth eh? Then it can't have been missing in the first place because...well, look! Nothing's missing! And yet we know for a FACT that this is 'Lee's' skull because of the mastoid scar and your admission that none of those involved in the exhumation had faked the findings.

So what is the point of this post? Are you seriously trying to prove that that body must belong to someone other than 'Lee'? Despite the kicking you have all just had on that very subject? Really??

A much less arrogant person would stay well clear of the body in that grave especially when you demonstrably cannot explain why or how it even got there!

Mr. Laverick tells us that every bit of evidence for two Oswalds is invalid because of the exhumation when, in fact, all the evidence for two Oswalds indicates there is something wrong with the stated results of the exhumation.  Can you imagine the U.S. National Security state allowing a different verdict?

We have repeatedly shown how much evidence in this case has been faked.  FBI reports of Dealey Plaza eyewitnesses that do not reflect at all what the witnesses saw.  Alteration of sworn testimony.  An invented IRS form inserted into evidence during the secret transfer of Oswald’s possessions to the FBI that does not reflect Social Security records.  An uncashed money order that supposedly paid for the rifle that allegedly killed JFK.  A magic bullet!  Disappeared original school and employment records for teen-aged “Lee Harvey Oswald.”  But the conclusions of the exhumation should be above suspicion?  In this case?

But by all means, go ahead and pretend the exhumation closes this case and, whatever you do, don’t believe your own lying eyes!  In the meantime, how about all that evidence that Lee Harvey Oswald was active in anti-Castro circles in the United States at the same time he was in the Soviet Union?

 

[Jim Hargrove]

Less than 3 hours after JFK was assassinated, Hoover famously told AG Robert Kennedy and top FBI officials that Oswald "went to Cuba on several occasions, but would not tell us what he went to Cuba for."  Even though Hoover claimed that Oswald went to Cuba after returning from Russia, that information soon disappeared from the official biography of Lee Harvey Oswald.  A substantial amount of evidence shows that the Cuban visits, and Oswald’s anti-Castro activities in Florida and Louisiana, occurred while the other Oswald was in the Soviet Union.

Phillip Corso, asked by Richard Russell to make discreet inquiries about the assassination, reported that Francis Knight, head of the U.S. Passport Office, told him that two passports had been issued to “Lee Harvey Oswald” and they had been used by two different people. (Anthony Summers 1966 interview with Phillip Corso). 

Marita Lorenz told government attorneys in no uncertain terms that LHO was active in anti-Castro activities in the U.S. while the other LHO was in the USSR.  She refused to back down even when threatened with perjury.  H&L critics will tell us she was unreliable, but they were strangely silent when the lengthy thread about her unfolded recently on this forum.

During the same period we have the infamous Bolton Ford incident and the Milnes Chevy appearance, both of which involved Oswald’s name being written down.  In Havana in May 1961, CBS journalist Robert Taber (a Fair Play for Cuba Committee founding member) met with a "Lieutenant Oswald," who was introduced as an arms expert, and Dr. Enrique Luaces. Dr. Luaces had no doubt that "Lieutenant Oswald" was the same man depicted on television after the assassination of JFK.  In the fall of 1961, Police Officer Charles Noto arrested LEE Oswald and Celso Hernandez on Breakwater Road on the Lakefront in New Orleans. They were brought to Levee Board Police Headquarters where, after a closed door session with Marcel Champon, the officer in charge, they were released.

H&L critics will tell us, of course, that this is all nonsense.  Just more mistaken eyewitnesses.

Isn’t it remarkable, though, that in most of the cases above, the young man described to the world as a leftist and even a Commie was described instead by the eyewitnesses as being involved in anti-Castro activities.   How do you explain that?  Guess they must have all gotten together right after the assassination and decided to concoct similar theme of anti-Cuban activities for our young Commie so they could each have their 15 minutes of fame.  A CONSPIRACY!

For more, see....

Harvey in Russia… Lee in the USA

[Michael Walton]

Jim - I was getting worried.  I thought you had sneakily moved on from here and started that new thread. Looks like you're back here LOL.

Can you explain the teeth match Jim? They match up perfectly.  Sandy tried, saying they're HARVEY's teeth. That's kind of - actually very weak - it's like saying the sky is green when we know it's blue

[Sandy Larsen]

3 hours ago, Michael Walton said:

Can you explain the teeth match Jim? They match up perfectly.  Sandy tried, saying they're HARVEY's teeth.

Michael,

In your demonstration you compared the teeth of the corpse to the teeth of Lee Harvey Oswald. That particular photo of Lee Harvey Oswald is one that the H&L group consider to be HARVEY. So all you demonstrated was that you agree with us as far as the matching teeth go.

If you want to compare the corpse's teeth to LEE's teeth, so that you can prove the H&L group wrong, then you'll have to do so with a photo we consider to be LEE. But good luck with that because there are no pictures of LEE where his teeth can be clearly seen. In fact, LEE usually didn't smile with teeth showing. Maybe because he was missing one of his front teeth.

 

[Bernie Laverick]

1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Michael,

In your demonstration you compared the teeth of the corpse to the teeth of Lee Harvey Oswald. That particular photo of Lee Harvey Oswald is one that the H&L group consider to be HARVEY. So all you demonstrated was that you agree with us as far as the matching teeth go.

If you want to compare the corpse's teeth to LEE's teeth, so that you can prove the H&L group wrong, then you'll have to do so with a photo we consider to be LEE. But good luck with that because there are no pictures of LEE where his teeth can be clearly seen. In fact, LEE usually didn't smile with teeth showing. Maybe because he was missing one of his front teeth.

 

Oh Sandy what are we going to do with you...?

So you now believe that the teeth of the corpse exhumed from that grave are from Harvey's mouth. You can see the match, you say?

This is the corpse that somehow had a mastoid operation scar so as to replicate 'Lee's' medical record. You haven't explained how, but let's suppose you are right, let's concede that they somehow faked the mastoidectomy scar. It would be an extreme act don't you think? The plotters would have had to pull off something stunning to do this. But needs must, you say. These people are capable of anything in order to conceal this plot, you say.

But damn it! They just couldn't chip one of the teeth so it would match how you interpret 'Lee's' dental status? Really?

Why wouldn't they have done that?

They did a mastoid operation either when 'Harvey' was six, or they did it when he was dead, according to you. But they didn't make sure to chip one of 'Harvey's' teeth?

Mark Twain - "It's easier to fool people... than convince them they have been fooled!"

Say goodnight Gracy...

[Michael Walton]

1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Michael,

In your demonstration you compared the teeth of the corpse to the teeth of Lee Harvey Oswald. That particular photo of Lee Harvey Oswald is one that the H&L group consider to be HARVEY. So all you demonstrated was that you agree with us as far as the matching teeth go.

If you want to compare the corpse's teeth to LEE's teeth, so that you can prove the H&L group wrong, then you'll have to do so with a photo we consider to be LEE. But good luck with that because there are no pictures of LEE where his teeth can be clearly seen. In fact, LEE usually didn't smile with teeth showing. Maybe because he was missing one of his front teeth.

No problem and I understand, Sandy.  That's where we obviously diverge - you and HL supporters believe that that's HARVEY's teeth, where I and I'm sure others who do not support the HL story believe that that's Lee Harvey Oswald's teeth. The same one that grew up poor, was moved around, went into the military, did a false defection, returned, was married to Marina, stirred up fake trouble in NO so he'd be branded a Communist, worked for one month in the TSBD, was arrested in the TX Theater, said "I'm just a patsy" in the hallway, was gunned down by Ruby on 11/24, was buried in the graveyard where Marina, his Mom and kids sat crying graveside, and whose body was exhumed in 1981.

[Jim Hargrove]

Notice how the H&L critics have decided to discuss nothing except the exhumation, as if any one piece of evidence in this case can be used to conclude anything positively.  In other cases, perhaps, but not this one.