Challenge for Paul Trejo -- Why would the US Government cover up a Gen. Walker conspiracy?

[Jason Ward]

7 hours ago, George Sawtelle said:

Jason

Apparently Marina decided to have her baby in Dallas not New Orleans. Ruth Paine would pick her up in New Orleans and drive her to Dallas at about the same time that Oswald would go to Mexico City to get a visa (visas) to travel to Russia. We are to believe then that Oswald is leaving his wife to her own devices while he goes to Russia. Oswald is a cold dude.

But the impersonation blows up the WC story of Oswald to Mexico City. Why impersonate Oswald if he's going to bury himself anyway? There were two forces working that were not coordinating. Besides the great work by David J disclosing the absurdity of Oswald's trip to Mexico, logic tells us Oswald never travelled to Mexico City.

So why did Oswald travel to Houston from New Orleans on 26 Sep 1963 and then to Laredo TX and then to Dallas where he met with Odio? 

Who better to control Oswald than his handler? Who was his handler?

George,

1. It's hard to get a gauge on Oswald's fatherhood qualities because he was a young man, in a different era, married to a Russian wife, and most pertinent of all - he was dirt poor.   How anyone believes a CIA-operative is forced to live on $33 a week unemployment payments and forced to send his family to the free charity health clinic is beyond me.  The CIA is a big spender and pays well.  Despite his poverty, I think Oswald has certain redeeming qualities as a father; especially in November there is evidence he intends to get a proper home, buy Marina a washing machine, and so forth.  Oswald is hanging in there as a dad, all things considered; he could certainly be a lot worse.

2. Mexico City is a complete fiasco.   Again, how anyone believes the CIA is some kind of all-powerful monolith able to keep a secret for 50+ years and with an institutional homicidal desire to kill Kennedy in 1963 ---and yet--- cannot pull off a simple operation in Mexico City is truly baffling.    Whatever the true story of the Mexico City episode is; it is very clear that the US intelligence agencies are not exerting control over the situation nor Oswald.  They are observers and reporters only, not operators.

3. I don't have much of a strong opinion as to whether LHO went to MC or not.  Someone used his birth certificate to get into Mexico at the border crossing in Laredo.  This is possibly a clue since Oswald has a passport --- whereas a birth certificate has no picture.   Sylvia Duran says the man in the news on 22Nov is not the same man that came to the Cuban Embassy asking for a visa.   I believe that the man photographed in the pictures outside the Cuban and/or Soviet embassy was in fact using Oswald's name - and what I am about to say is pivotal - THE CIA HAD NO REASON TO BELIEVE OTHERWISE - until they compared the 23NOV Oswald on TV with who they thought was Oswald applying for travel visas.   How in the hell could the CIA/Ruth paine be controlling Oswald when the CIA believes Oswald is the guy calling himself Oswald - but who in fact is not really Oswald?????  The CIA is falling for the sheep-dipping exercise: as intended.

4.  I believe the bus ticket through to MC was purchased in N.O. is one transaction - i.e. a full ticket from N.O. to Mexico as in someone intends to ride on the applicable segments - and in fact someone does ride on the applicable segments.   The whole Mexico episode is mysterious, but I don't think its critical to understanding the assassination.  it is in my view it is merely  another sheep-dipping exercise and nothing more; like handing out FPCC flyers on Canal St.

5. Judging from what Harry Dean says and by Oswald's sudden departure from New Orleans, my guess is the Dallas radical right has taken control over LHO but is likely still using the Banister/Ferrie/ClayShawBertrand structure to give orders.   This is a critical question because at some point he is directed by someone who is planning the conspiracy - but it's unclear to me whether the New Orleans cell is that close to the actually trigger men to know the details to tell Oswald re: behavior of 22Nov.    Does someone else takeover in Dallas from Banister???????

 

Jason

[Michael Clark]

The NOLA FPCC gig was CIA. Bannister and Hoover would have known LHO was no Commie. Trejo can call rogue all he wants. It doesn't put his hero in charge of anything.

[Jason Ward]

1 minute ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Just because Banister knew Oswald was a fake communist, that doesn't mean that Hoover did as well. Banister had retired from the FBI nine years prior to the assassination. The Banister/Oswald connection was a CIA one. And the CIA had painted Oswald as Castro sympathizer who was plotting with Cubans and Russians to assassinate Kennedy. That's all that Hoover knew.

I've never heard of any evidence that Hoover was aware that Oswald was a fake communist.

 

544 Camp Street

Home of:

1. Guy Banister
2. E Howard Hunt
3. Lee Harvey Oswald

Hoover knows this because he knows where Banister's office is and knows what Banister's up to in New Orleans from his local agents.   The address is on the back of the FPCC flyers Oswald hands out on Canal St.    

When you see 2 hard ass Cold Warrior anti-communists like Banister and Hunt with a passion for cloak and dagger intrigue shacking up with Oswald, who do you think the masters are and who is the servant?   Do you think somehow in Oswald's strange request for a private interview with the FBI while in jail in New Orleans, it is not immediately apparent to Hoover that the whole Canal Street scuffle was staged?   Hoover sees Banister + Hunt + Oswald + the fake FPCC chapter in New Orleans = Hoover knows someone is desperately painting Oswald as a communist which in turn means he is no communist at all.

You believe Hoover cannot connect the dots between Banister-Oswald-Hunt?

Jason

[Jason Ward]

1 minute ago, Michael Clark said:

The NOLA FPCC gig was CIA. Bannister and Hoover would have known LHO was no Commie. Trejo can call rogue all he wants. It doesn't put his hero in charge of anything.

Of course Hoover knows LHO was no commie.  Whether the FPCC gig is CIA or rogue or Right Wingers is largely irrelevant though - insofar as Hoover's certainty that Oswald is getting painted as a commie under false pretenses.

 

Jason

[Michael Clark]

3 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:

Whether the FPCC gig is CIA or rogue or Right Wingers is largely irrelevant though - insofar ..... "

Jason

"Insofar" as the FPCC NOLA op was CIA, it is entirely irrelevant, "insofar" as LHO was NOLA FPCC and CIA, and was accused of shooting the President.

BTW, Jason, I missed it. How do you place E. Howard Hunt at 544 Camp st. ?

[Jason Ward]

7 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Do you have any evidence that Hoover knew Oswald was a fake commie? I don't think you do.

 

 

Hoover knew the whole sheep-dipping exercise in Mexico City was fake and not the real Oswald.  Hoover knew that someone/something was desperate to paint Oswald as a communist in applying for a Cuban/Soviet visa.  This means Hoover knows Oswald is no commie - because if he were, there would be no need to have fake Oswald apply for Cuban-Soviet visas. Since Hoover knew the Mexico City Oswald stories were fake, he knew Oswald was not the communist the Dallas radical right made him out to be an hour or two after the assassination.

 

Although Hoover publicly adopted the view that Oswald acted alone, he told his colleagues that he couldn’t forget the CIA’s “false story re Oswald’s trip in Mexico City”.

The evidence Hoover knew Mexico City was a total fake-commie-sheep-dipping effort is here, among many other sources:

1.

https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/State_Secret_Chapter6.html

2. 

In Detail:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/oswald-the-cia-and-mexico-city/

Edited August 24, 2017 by Jason Ward

[Jason Ward]

35 minutes ago, Michael Clark said:

...

BTW, Jason, I missed it. How do you place E. Howard Hunt at 544 Camp st. ?

E Howard Hunt set up the Cuban Revolutionary Council.   Guess where the offices of the Cuban Revolutionary Council are?   Yes indeed, in LHO's "office" at 544 Camp st....and who is a member of the CRC?  none other than Carlos Bringuier, shortly to fight with Oswald on Canal St.  Odd, isn't it, that both the pro- and anti- Cuban groups in New Orleans should share the same address?  The address of Guy Banister and E Howard Hunt is operating both sides of the alleged Castro wars in New Orleans....hmmmmm....

 

1.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/1975/07/17/the-cias-mystery-man/

2.

"Until a few weeks prior to Oswald's arrival in New Orleans, the aging building housed the offices of the Cuban Revolutionary Council, the umbrella anti-Castro organization created by E Howard Hunt"

https://books.google.com/books?id=7U8PAAAAQBAJ&pg=PT119&lpg=PT119&dq=544+camp+st+e+howard+hunt&source=bl&ots=wi_NJ6xgE_&sig=jQxHcu2x_seQPgRhYs25c7m_Y64&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwie_M6Z8e7VAhWHKWMKHXK1DjkQ6AEIUDAH#v=onepage&q=544 camp st e howard hunt&f=false

3. "In connection with those duties, it was further alleged that Hunt was instrumental in organizing the Cuban Revolutionary Council and that the Cuban Revolutionary Council had an office in New Orleans. Finally, it was claimed that Lee Harvey Oswald lived in New Orleans from April to September 1963, and that a pamphlet prepared and distributed by Oswald on behalf of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee during that period indicated that the office of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee was situated in building which was also the address of the New Orleans office of the Cuban Revolutionary Council"

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/hunt_sturgis.htm

Edited August 24, 2017 by Jason Ward

[Michael Clark]

4 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:

Hoover knew the whole sheep-dipping exercise in Mexico City was fake and not the real Oswald.  Hoover knew that someone/something was desperate to paint Oswald as a communist in applying for a Cuban/Soviet visa.   Since Hoover knew the Mexico City Oswald stories were fake, he knew Oswald was not the communist the radical right made him out to be an hour or two after the assassination.

 

Although Hoover publicly adopted the view that Oswald acted alone, he told his colleagues that he couldn’t forget the CIA’s “false story re Oswald’s trip in Mexico City”.

The evidence Hoover knew Mexico City was a total fake-commie-sheep-dipping effort is here, among many other sources:

1.

https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/State_Secret_Chapter6.html

2. 

In Detail:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/oswald-the-cia-and-mexico-city/

None of that Frontline article makes the conspiracy a Walker-did- it conspiracy that the government covered-up. It does not even mention Walker.

The Chapter of State Secret you offered (6) is leghthly. Is Walker even mentioned in that?

That is rather Trejo-esque, Jason, to throw a massive volume out to the reader, as your "citation", and tell them to dig-in.

[Jason Ward]

4 minutes ago, Michael Clark said:

None of that Frontline article makes the conspiracy a Walker-did- it conspiracy that the government covered-up. It does not even mention Walker.

The Chapter of State Secret you offered (6) is leghthly. Is Walker even mentioned in that?

That is rather Trejo-esque, Jason, to throw a massive volume out to the reader, as your "citation", and tell them to dig-in.

Who says anything about Walker?  Not me.

Before we get to who is in charge of the assassination, I am trying to show that Hoover knows damn well Oswald is no commie.  He knows this well before 22 November because he sees the sheep-dipping shenanigans in New Orleans and Mexico City.

Sorry if you feel I just threw out a big chunk of data.  My suggestion: click on my links, and use ctrl-F to pinpoint search terms.  For the State Secret cite I gave, the quote I took is from the most relevant part to our discussion, which is under the bold black heading "Angleton and Hosty say the cover up was designed to protect the Soviets", and more specifically, the paragraph that begins:"Other CIA and FBI chiefs differed as to whether the assassination was perpetrated by foreign or domestic enemies, or whether Oswald acted alone. ...

Hoover knows Mexico City is a total scam.   Hoover knows it was a clownish attempt to make Oswald into a commie.  Therefore, Hoover knows Oswald is not a commie.

Jason

[Michael Clark]

11 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:

E Howard Hunt set up the Cuban Revolutionary Council.   Guess where the offices of the Cuban Revolutionary Council are?   Yes indeed, in LHO's "office" at 544 Camp st.

 

1.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/1975/07/17/the-cias-mystery-man/

2.

"Until a few weeks prior to Oswald's arrival in New Orleans, the aging building housed the offices of the Cuban Revolutionary Council, the umbrella anti-Castro organization created by E Howard Hunt"

https://books.google.com/books?id=7U8PAAAAQBAJ&pg=PT119&lpg=PT119&dq=544+camp+st+e+howard+hunt&source=bl&ots=wi_NJ6xgE_&sig=jQxHcu2x_seQPgRhYs25c7m_Y64&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwie_M6Z8e7VAhWHKWMKHXK1DjkQ6AEIUDAH#v=onepage&q=544 camp st e howard hunt&f=false

3. "In connection with those duties, it was further alleged that Hunt was instrumental in organizing the Cuban Revolutionary Council and that the Cuban Revolutionary Council had an office in New Orleans. Finally, it was claimed that Lee Harvey Oswald lived in New Orleans from April to September 1963, and that a pamphlet prepared and distributed by Oswald on behalf of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee during that period indicated that the office of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee was situated in building which was also the address of the New Orleans office of the Cuban Revolutionary Council"

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/hunt_sturgis.htm

Jason, none of that has anything to do with Walker, and has everything to do with the CIA.

If you are in Paul Trejo's swamp, then you are doing that same thing he always does, which is to bring greater scrutiny and culpability to the very thing from which he attempts to deflect said culpability; and prove himself wrong the more he provides proof.

No offense, it's just the same ole, same ole, Paul Trejo-twist.

I am seeing nothing in your offering that indicts Walker and a government cover-up of Walkers guilt. It's just not there. Walkers name is not even mentioned.

[Michael Clark]

4 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:

Who says anything about Walker?  Not me.

Jason

Walkers guilt and a USG cover-up are the subject of this thread. 

[Jason Ward]

1 minute ago, Michael Clark said:

Jason, none of that has anything to do with Walker, and has everything to do with the CIA.

If you are in Paul Trejo's swamp, then you are doing that same thing he always does, which is to bring greater scrutiny and culpability to the very thing from which he attempts to deflect said culpability; and prove himself wrong the more he provides proof.

No offense, it's just the same ole, same ole, Paul Trejo-twist.

I am seeing nothing in your offering that indicts Walker and a government cover-up of Walkers guilt. It's just not there. Walkers name is not even mentioned.

Take it one piece at a time.  You are jumping ahead.

If Hoover knows Oswald is no commie than he knows the radical right is behind the assassination.

The CIA may or may not be involved at some lower level, among rogue agents, etc.

Jason

[Jason Ward]

Just now, Michael Clark said:

Walkers guilt and a USG cover-up are the subject of this thread. 

Yes, but I have to spell it all out in baby steps because so many people believe the CIA and Ruth Paine are controlling the planet in 1963.

Take it one step at a time.

The links I provide show Hoover knew Oswald is no commie.

If Oswald is no commie, but the Radical Right (aka DPD / Dallas DA) is blaming Oswald, Hoover now knows who is behind the assassination...it is neither Oswald nor the commies.

JW

[Michael Clark]

6 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:

 

 

Sorry if you feel I just threw out a big chunk of data.  My suggestion: click on my links, and use ctrl-F to pinpoint search terms.  For the State Secret cite I gave, the quote I took is from the most relevant part to our discussion, which is under the bold black heading "Angleton and Hosty say the cover up was designed to protect the Soviets", and more specifically, the paragraph that begins:"Other CIA and FBI chiefs differed as to whether the assassination was perpetrated by foreign or domestic enemies, or whether Oswald acted alone. ...

 

Jason

Thanks Jason, I have a good chink of simplichs book, but not chapter 6. I use an IPAD and can't search well (yet, no ctr f). I need to get an MF account.

[Jason Ward]

5 minutes ago, Michael Clark said:

Thanks Jason, I have a good chink of simplichs book, but not chapter 6. I use an IPAD and can't search well (yet, no ctr f). I need to get an MF account.

Ok, no problem, one thing that makes this forum hard is that all of us have different facts we "know" are true ....but can't cite because we read it once and didn't write it dow. I'm trying to avoid that kind of sloppy sourcing, although I need reminding from you.

 

Jason

Edited August 24, 2017 by Jason Ward