Guest Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 (edited) Edited June 8, 2019 by Bart Kamp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Palamara Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 (edited) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxVOBlUGb_g Edited June 8, 2019 by Vince Palamara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Speer Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 (edited) I went to watch the videos, but found them all to be the same video. But then I checked back later. And they were different again. Weird. I hate to say this, but the main thing I learned from these videos is something I'd already learned--and that's that Harry Livingstone was not exactly right in the head. He seems to question the intentions of others, and yet insists on two points that are total nonsense and pretty much indefensible (that the x-rays show the face to be missing and that the shots came from two storm drains). The least bit of serious research would have proven these points false, but here's Harry blabbing on and on. Embarrassing. While some have wondered if the research community was infiltrated by spooks of some sort who were out to discredit the "community," these videos serve as a reminder that no such infiltration was necessary, as sincere men like Livingstone were performing that function for free. My take-away, FWIW. Edited June 27, 2019 by Pat Speer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micah Mileto Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 Any chance you have full recordings of Mark Oakes' first two eyewitness videos and the mystery of the FBI man? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Palamara Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Micah Mileto said: Any chance you have full recordings of Mark Oakes' first two eyewitness videos and the mystery of the FBI man? [interestingly, the 2-3 minute segment where Gemberling threatened to sue Oakes is omitted] Edited June 28, 2019 by Vince Palamara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Palamara Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Micah Mileto said: Any chance you have full recordings of Mark Oakes' first two eyewitness videos and the mystery of the FBI man? Edited June 28, 2019 by Vince Palamara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Palamara Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 6 hours ago, Pat Speer said: I went to watch the videos, but found them all to be the same video. But then I checked back later. And they were different again. Weird. I hate to say this, but the main thing I learned from these videos is something I'd already learned--and that's that Harry Livingstone was not exactly right in the head. He seems to question the intentions of others, and yet insists on two points that are total nonsense and pretty much indefensible (that the x-rays show the face to be missing and that the shots came from two storm drains). The least bit of serious research would have proven these points false, but here's Harry blabbing on and on. Embarrassing. While some have wondered if the research community was infiltrated by spooks of some sort who were out to discredit the "community," these videos serve as a reminder that no such infiltration was necessary, as sincere men like Livingstone were performing that function for free. My take-away, FWIW. Hi, Pat! I was there (I presented---video 1; my first ever at the ripe old age of 25). I have told Bart several times that there are still a couple more videos he needs to find. Regarding Harry Livingstone: "you ain't seen nothin' yet!" Harry does ANOTHER presentation and gets into it with a couple people; some true fireworks over Lifton (and Groden). Harry was a tortured soul: he did some amazing things (two major best-sellers [High Treason-twice + High Treason 2]; interviewed a lot of the medical evidence witnesses- I helped him video tape/ interview Jerrol Custer 11/22/91 and I drove him to Shelby, Ohio to interview Steve Barber for Killing The Truth), yet his paranoia and hatred of Lifton, Groden and the COPA/Lancer groups really ate away at him. I was horrified when Killing The Truth came out and he attacked Harold Weisberg and several other esteemed authors and researchers. It turns out that Fredonia was the only conference Harry was ever invited to! He "crashed" A.S.K. 1992 and COPA 1996 but did not formally present. Aguilar, Mantik and several others literally RAN when they heard Harry was there at COPA 1996! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micah Mileto Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 49 minutes ago, Vince Palamara said: The full version of Mystery FBI man is over an hour http://www.lasthurrahbookshop.com/vidframe.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Speer Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 5 hours ago, Vince Palamara said: Hi, Pat! I was there (I presented---video 1; my first ever at the ripe old age of 25). I have told Bart several times that there are still a couple more videos he needs to find. Regarding Harry Livingstone: "you ain't seen nothin' yet!" Harry does ANOTHER presentation and gets into it with a couple people; some true fireworks over Lifton (and Groden). Harry was a tortured soul: he did some amazing things (two major best-sellers [High Treason-twice + High Treason 2]; interviewed a lot of the medical evidence witnesses- I helped him video tape/ interview Jerrol Custer 11/22/91 and I drove him to Shelby, Ohio to interview Steve Barber for Killing The Truth), yet his paranoia and hatred of Lifton, Groden and the COPA/Lancer groups really ate away at him. I was horrified when Killing The Truth came out and he attacked Harold Weisberg and several other esteemed authors and researchers. It turns out that Fredonia was the only conference Harry was ever invited to! He "crashed" A.S.K. 1992 and COPA 1996 but did not formally present. Aguilar, Mantik and several others literally RAN when they heard Harry was there at COPA 1996! When I first dived into this, I was horrified to find that Livingstone spent so many pages going after his former partner Groden. I later met Groden, and he told me some scandalous stuff about Harry. I thought maybe he was overstating things, but later talked to Lifton (who was by no means a fan of Groden's) and he confirmed much of what Groden had to say of Harry. I then came across an old newspaper article on Livingstone (pre-High Treason), in which he claimed the government was out to get him, etc. I've since realized that Livingstone was only the most prominent of researchers to suffer from such paranoia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 (edited) Pat Speer you may have some minor point but that still does not allow you to speak ill of the dead nor do you present a complete story, only hearsay. I have gone through the archives of HL on 7 visits in 8 months and read things that will make your neck hairs go up. I will not share one document or tape recording regarding this as it is Harry's research that deserves to be shared and that is a whole lot more than what you have achieved. I have put a pile of paperwork together which just was about Groden and it amounted to 4 ft (I kid you not). The story is a whole lot different than what you present and I suggest you do not touch this subject any further. Just let it go. I am not here for a ruck but the kind of talk I see above is incomplete rubbish. Oh and anyone PMing me about any juice on the above is wasting his time. Edited June 28, 2019 by Bart Kamp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micah Mileto Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 Sorry if you've answered this before, but is the Livingstone archive a physical place you can go to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 15 minutes ago, Micah Mileto said: Sorry if you've answered this before, but is the Livingstone archive a physical place you can go to? You will be in about a week when I have uploaded whatever I got done so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Speer Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 On 6/28/2019 at 7:52 AM, Bart Kamp said: Pat Speer you may have some minor point but that still does not allow you to speak ill of the dead nor do you present a complete story, only hearsay. I have gone through the archives of HL on 7 visits in 8 months and read things that will make your neck hairs go up. I will not share one document or tape recording regarding this as it is Harry's research that deserves to be shared and that is a whole lot more than what you have achieved. I have put a pile of paperwork together which just was about Groden and it amounted to 4 ft (I kid you not). The story is a whole lot different than what you present and I suggest you do not touch this subject any further. Just let it go. I am not here for a ruck but the kind of talk I see above is incomplete rubbish. Oh and anyone PMing me about any juice on the above is wasting his time. "Allow me to speak ill of the dead?" What does that mean? Are the thought police gonna swoop down on me and give me a ticket for saying what I said about Livingstone while he was living...after he was dead? Are they gonna give me tickets for what I said about Lattimer and Specter as well? Livingstone has a mixed legacy, at best. He spoke ill of the living and the dead with regularity. That he was more than bit "paranoid" is not remotely in dispute. I mean, c'mon, 4 ft. on Groden? If he'd spent 1/10 as much time learning about x-rays as he spent researching his former partner, we'd all have been better for it. What is in dispute is the other stuff, which Groden told me. Which I did not and will not repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 (edited) It's called having manners of which you evidently have none. You don't want to learn do you? Rather butt in matters that do not concern you in the slightest. 4 Ft of court documents (!), payments, cheque books, invoices, correspondence and so on. Nor do you have any idea how much went on between those two and how much research he did on the autopsy photos. The ignorance you put on display here is mind boggling. Edited July 2, 2019 by Bart Kamp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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