Steve Landesberg and the Oswald Project?

[John Butler]

Thanks for replying Mr. Parnell,

You say "Stephen Landesberg (the student) was unfortunately and demonstrably mentally ill."  Is there any proof of this mental instability?  As I understand it the FBI eventually dropped charges against Stephen Landesberg (the student).  And, I believe, I could be wrong, he was released after his 10 day evaluation.  What information or medical evidence is available saying the student Landesberg was  mentally ill.  I would research it myself except that Google in recent times never returns related information to what I am looking for in a search.

Is there a record for a Marine Corps discharge listing mental instability as the cause for the discharge of Steven H. Landesberg?  There is "weird" and "bizarre" behavior mentioned, but nothing saying he was discharged after 8 months for mental illness.  IMO, if he was mentally ill that would have been caught during the first day of induction by the medical people.

IMO, the FBI and their request for psychiatric evaluation were acting similar to the Soviets in thinking people who disagree with them are mentally ill.  Maybe the FBI should have sent him to Nome, Alaska to become an agriculture worker.

 

[W. Tracy Parnell]

26 minutes ago, John Butler said:

You say "Stephen Landesberg (the student) was unfortunately and demonstrably mentally ill."  Is there any proof of this mental instability? 

John,

Obviously you have not read my articles. Yes, there is evidence of mental illness, Schizophrenia, In 1961, well before the JFK assassination and any conspiracy. Landesberg was diagnosed by the Marines with the following after he essentially had a mental breakdown (described in my article) during his induction at Paris Island:

"Schizophrenic Reaction N.E.C # 3007, manifested by loosened associations, tangential and concrete thought processes, paranoid ideation, grandiose ideation and a long history of nomadic wandering and poor interpersonal relationships."

He was transferred to a psychiatric facility in Philadelphia where he received treatment and was eventually able to be released. He was discharged from the Marines after he was determined to be:

"Unfit to perform the duties of his rank because of physical disability Schizophrenic Reaction N.E.C # 3007."

He received severance pay and went back home where his disease eventually returned and manifested itself in the well-known actions he took after the JFK killing.

[John Butler]

Mr. Parnell,

Thank for your reply and information.  That is appreciated. 

What you have stated has weakened my argument, but it has not totally destroyed it.  When Stephen H. Landesberg was dismissed from the service and psychiatric care he must have been competent enough to be released.  He must have had lucid moments between 1960 and 1963.  How do we determine when he was lucid and when he was schizophrenic? 

He was competent enough to try and hide his identity when he began talking about Oswald directly after the assassination.  He obviously feared the consequences of his actions enough to assume an alias.

Let's see if I can weaken the argument some more:

Here is the Rizzuto statement form Harvey and Lee site in comparison to other statements on the Harvey and Lee site.

“Jim Rizzuto (Steven H. Landesberg, the student) said that he met Steve L'eandes (Steven R. Landesberg, the actor) and Lee Oswald in the Marine Corps at Camp Lejune in the summer of 1956.”

And, from Harvey and Lee:

“I met Frank at the Tujague office in the Sanlin Building in 1995, the same address and the same office where LEE Oswald worked from June, 1955 thru August, 1956.”

“Frank told me, like he told the HSCA, that Oswald (LEE) worked with him "a year, maybe longer." I asked Frank if he remembered when Oswald quit working and he said, "when he quit it was hot. And he quit to join the Marines." which means that LEE Oswald worked at Tujague's a little over a year, from early summer, 1955, until the end of summer in 1956.”

“In 1995 Tujague secretary Gloria Callaghan was still working for the company. She remembered that LEE Oswald was still working at Tujague's when she went on maternity leave in March, 1956.”

From this we can gather that Lee Oswald couldn't have entered the Marine Corps until late summer, possibly in July or the beginning of August.  There is not enough time for Lee Oswald to become a PFC / E2 by the fall of 1956 by Marine Corps guidelines for promotion.

Lee Oswald at Camp LeJeune in the summer of 1956 means he had to do Marine basic training for 12 weeks somewhere else, either Parrish Island or San Diego.  The earliest he could go into the Marine Corps, according to the Stephen H. Landesberg statement would be May or Early June.  This contradicts with what witnesses at Tujaques said about employment.

If you accept the March, 1959 exit of the service for Lee Oswald, he may have gotten an early out of up to 90 days to go to school in Switzerland.  That would put him entering the service in about June, 1956 or earlier.

Below are average temperatures for New Orleans for the Spring and Summer months listed.  By May you could claim hot weather had arrived.  Frank says when Oswald quit to join the Marines it was hot.  That could be in the April to June period.  

New Orleans Weather

Month	Avg High Temp	Avg Low Temp
April	78° F	59° F
May	85° F	66° F
June	89° F	71° F
July	91° F	73° F

 

Like anything else about the Oswald / assassination events you will almost always find something controversial.

Although these things weaken the argument considerably, I don't think anything here destroys it completely.  There should be some way to reconcile these factoids. 

     

Edited October 10, 2019 by John Butler

[W. Tracy Parnell]

54 minutes ago, John Butler said:

There should be some way to reconcile these factoids.

First, there is not a speck of evidence that Landesberg the actor was L'eandes . There is evidence, if you look at my articles, that L'eandes  was Landesberg the student. Armstrong is playing very loose with the facts. Remember, he was forced to recant some of this stuff but he did so on the website that Jim runs. So everything in the book is not accurate even according to him. I tried to contact the actor's wife to clear some of this up once and for all, but she probably thought I was a kook and didn't reply. I don't want to take time to sort through all tis for you and its been a while so I don't remember all the details. But if you read my 2 articles, its all there.

My advice John is this. You can't rely on witnesses absent any other information. I have been working on a chronology of LHO for some time (that I hope to market as a book if I ever finish it) and I am up to 1963, which is where it gets crazy of course. I can account for the time period you are talking about with a reasonable degree of certainty. And I don't do it with witnesses. I do it with Marine Corp records. Yes, there will always be inconsistencies and yes, you can say the records are faked if you want to. I saw a document the other day (I don't have a link right now) where some expert said the Marine Corp records (in general not specifically LHO's) were 75-80 percent accurate. So, there will always be discrepancies. You do the best you can to work through that. But IMO, you can't take those inconsistencies and then postulate 2 Oswalds or Oswald impersonations. That is a mistake I believe and it defies logic and common sense.

[John Butler]

Hmmm?  Let's see.  You can't rely on witnesses.  Don't they put people in jail or on death row based on witness statements?  Should I rely on the FBI for the correct story under the Hoover administration?  The FBI straightened out the Jim Rizzuto / Stephen H. Landesburg story.  Or, did they?  Down in Dallas there was a lot of witness statement adjustment.  I refer you to Bonnie Ray Williams as a prime example.  Why wouldn't they do the same in New York with information they didn't like.  Why not treat Jim Rizzuto as a kook and toss him out on his ear?  They panicked and thought they had to do something?

There are still problems with Stephen R. Landesberg. 

Stephen R. Landesberg, the man of mystery and strange behavior.  There is no information on his life from 1954 to 1969.  This is from a W. Tracy Parnell article:

“There is no record of where Stephen Richard Landesberg graduated from high school, if he served in the military, or if he attended college. In fact, there is no biographical record to establish where he was or what he was doing from 1954 (high school graduation) until 1969 (working at The Improvisation in New York City).

Not a single biography of Landesberg, and I have reviewed many, lists his year of birth correctly. In nearly all cases his birth year is missing and in some cases his birthday is listed as Nov 3 instead of Nov 23. One biography lists his year of birth as 1945, another as 1944, another as 1940 and so on. One biography says "Landesberg grew up in the Bronx where he was born some thirty or so years ago, and after a period of odd jobs following his graduation from high school, entered show business via an open audition for the Tonight Show." This and other biographies avoid any reference to fifteen years of Landesberg's life-from 1954-1969.”

And from Harvey and Lee,

“Two researchers, including myself and Jack White of Ft. Worth, Texas, received a curt telephone call from a Mr. Tom Walker, who gave his address as PO Box 552, Bronx, New York 10475. Mr. Walker introduced himself as "the head of security for Mr. Landesberg" and ordered us to stop investigating Landesberg. Walker threatened Jack White and myself and warned us not to publish any information about Steve Landesberg "or else."

And from W. Tracy Parnell,

“· Armstrong employed a Private Investigator to search for "any and all" Landesbergs in the United States. [47]
· He traveled to the US District Courthouse in New York in an attempt to find the court records of Stephen H. Landesberg. [48]
· He accumulated other records on the actor Landesberg such as birth records and real estate information.”

If John Armstrong hired a private investigator, then why is there no more information available then that mentioned above.  There should be information on family, school records, military records, and any other public records for the years 1954-1969.  There is a 15 year period in which there is no information on Stephen R. Landesberg.  He becomes invisible after he graduates High School.  And, what High School is that?  It is said he worked a lot at hotels in various places.  Any record of that? 

Wikipedia only has his parents and birth information and nothing else for information on the early life of Stephen R. Landesberg.

Stephen R. Landesberg was reticent about supplying information about himself.  He did say to Dallas reporter Ed Golz that he wished he had not gotten mixed up with Oswald. 

There is still a vacuum of information in the years 1954-1969.  And, that is not natural.  Why?

 

Edited October 12, 2019 by John Butler

[W. Tracy Parnell]

9 minutes ago, John Butler said:

Don't they put people in jail or on death row based on witness statements?

It is my belief that no one should ever be convicted of a crime based on witness statements alone. But that is just my opinion and you are correct that they are.

10 minutes ago, John Butler said:

This is from a W. Tracy Parnell article:

“There is no record of where Stephen Richard Landesberg graduated from high school [etc.]

That is a quote from John Armstrong's book, not a statement made by me as should be evident from the block quote style used. So, I don't know why you begin with the "fact" it is from my article. I believe it would a very simple matter to find all of the facts related to Landesberg's (the Actor) background. I see no reason to do that since it would be expensive and if I did that, the Armstrong supporters would just come up with another reason to disbelieve any evidence I provided. You are correct though that he was a private person who wanted to remain that way.

As far as the call from Landesberg's security, it is not hard for me to understand why he didn't want to be bothered by conspiracy people. I have learned a few things about life John. One of those is that people will believe what they want to believe. There are a number of individuals that wish to believe the H&L theory and the Landesberg subset of that theory even though there is not a single piece of evidence that the actor had a thing to do with the JFK assassination. They are free to believe what they want. When I saw you starting this whole thing up again, I wanted to at least put a link to my articles and I have done that. Further discussion on this subject is pointless. Each reader can decide what they believe.

 

[John Butler]

Thanks again for replying Mr. Parnell,

I am not sure "Further discussion on this subject is pointless."  But, you are right there's not much more to say. 

I brought this up because I found what I thought there was a confusing and ambiguous reference to the rank of Lee Oswald in the fall of 1956.  I am not arguing that the Harvey and Lee folks are wrong, far from it.  What I am saying is that particular bit of info needs clarifying.

The information about Landesberg and Oswald at Camp LeJeune in the summer of 1956 might help clear that up.