Is anyone interested in Apollo missions...

[Michael Hogan]

The Ground Zero Grassy Knoll

A new generation of conspiracy theorists is at work on a secret history of New York’s most terrible day.

By Mark Jacobson

New York Magazine

1) 11/22 and 9/11

They keep telling us 9/11 changed everything. But even in this Photoshopped age of unreliable narrators, much remains the same. The assassination of President John Kennedy, the Crime of the Last Century, occurred in plain sight, in front of thousands—yet exactly what happened remains in dispute. The Warren Commission found that Lee Harvey Oswald, fellow traveler of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, shot Kennedy with a cheap Mannlicher-Carcano rifle from a sixth-floor window of the Texas School Book Depository. The commission found that Oswald, who two days later would be murdered by nightclub owner Jack Ruby, acted alone.

Yet, as with so many such events, there is the sanctioned history and the secret history—players hidden from view. In the Kennedy murder, the involvement of shadowy organizations like the Mafia and the CIA came into question. This way of thinking came to challenge the official narrative put forth by the Warren Commission. It is not exactly clear when the grassy knoll supplanted the sixth-floor window in the popular mind-set. But now, four decades after Dallas, it is difficult to find anyone who believes Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone gunman.

But if Oswald didn’t kill the president, who did? So 11/22 remains an open case, an open wound.

Now here we are again, contemplating the seemingly unthinkable events of September 11. An official explanation has been offered up: The nation was attacked by the forces of radical Islam led by Osama bin Laden and his Al Qaeda jihadists. Again, this narrative has been accepted by many.

But not all.....

Full Story: http://nymag.com/news/features/16464/

The Plane Truth

9/11 conspiracy theories, from nuts to soup: http://nymag.com/news/features/16464/index8.html

[Jack White]

Click on...

http://nymag.com/news/features/16464/index8.html

Be sure to read ALL NINE PAGES.

Jack

[Guest David Guyatt]

Len, if you're not going to listen the first time, nor the second too -- then your expectation of receiving a punch of posies to reward your brilliance has to be misplaced. Doesn't it?

David

[Guest David Guyatt]

I know nothing of what you're talking about - however if it is really so profound and earth-shattering, can you not re-mortgage your home to raise what is in the great scheme of things quite a small amount?

Just a suggestion. Good luck.

I know what you mean, Dave.

But the last I heard he doesn't own a home and drives a second hand cheapo car and is usually broke. The place in Venice, FL, is where his parents live. Daniel's books only get published because of the financial contributions (not to mention free research) he receives from well wishers.

It's a tough life reporting on subjects that the major media won't touch with a bargepole. There's no money in to be perfectly honest. Been there, done that... seen the yawning chasm.

I've also come across the fear (or is it simple "resistance"?) of Commissioning editors faced with a well supported and important story being offered to them, as the realisation hits home that their job could be on the line if they go ahead and commission it. I took the Nick Leeson-Barings bank crash to Channel Four Dispatches. It's a story that still hasn't been properly told, I think. Leeson being tagged as a "lone trader" was simply a travesty of truth. He was the chosen "patsy". I also took the Rabin assassination to a leading independent TV production company with full supporting evidence and together we hawked the actual story of what had happened around to all the UK Broadcasters. Zip. This same experience has been repeated in other cases, too. The US use of chemcial and bio weapons against Iraqi targets in Gul war 1. That one went right up to the top of the Ministry of Defence. And Washington. Zip.

Based on these and other personal experiences, it is hard not to conclude that no one wants to be the messenger when it comes to the unpalatable truth. Messengers are the first to suffer the wrath of God. And truth suffers as a result of such (understandable) venality.

David

[Dave Greer]

I know nothing of what you're talking about - however if it is really so profound and earth-shattering, can you not re-mortgage your home to raise what is in the great scheme of things quite a small amount?

Just a suggestion. Good luck.

I know what you mean, Dave.

But the last I heard he doesn't own a home and drives a second hand cheapo car and is usually broke. The place in Venice, FL, is where his parents live. Daniel's books only get published because of the financial contributions (not to mention free research) he receives from well wishers.

It's a tough life reporting on subjects that the major media won't touch with a bargepole. There's no money in to be perfectly honest. Been there, done that... seen the yawning chasm.

I've also come across the fear (or is it simple "resistance"?) of Commissioning editors faced with a well supported and important story being offered to them, as the realisation hits home that their job could be on the line if they go ahead and commission it. I took the Nick Leeson-Barings bank crash to Channel Four Dispatches. It's a story that still hasn't been properly told, I think. Leeson being tagged as a "lone trader" was simply a travesty of truth. He was the chosen "patsy". I also took the Rabin assassination to a leading independent TV production company with full supporting evidence and together we hawked the actual story of what had happened around to all the UK Broadcasters. Zip. This same experience has been repeated in other cases, too. The US use of chemcial and bio weapons against Iraqi targets in Gul war 1. That one went right up to the top of the Ministry of Defence. And Washington. Zip.

Based on these and other personal experiences, it is hard not to conclude that no one wants to be the messenger when it comes to the unpalatable truth. Messengers are the first to suffer the wrath of God. And truth suffers as a result of such (understandable) venality.

David

Hmmm... I did sound somewhat dismissive in that post.

He seems to be struggling to raise the amount, so to show I'm not completely cold-hearted I've sent his campaign fund a small donation (price of a pint of Guinness).

Suckers. There's one born every minute, and I'm it!

http://www.madcowprod.com/index.html

[Len Colby]

Perhaps this thread should be merged with the one Michael started about the exact same article a few hours earlier.

I don't know if I'd use "finally" in relation to an article that is over 18 months old

[Len Colby]

"I'm not particularly concerned with Makram Chams' lawsuit; I see it as an opportunity to get testimony under oath from an individual which should enlighten all of us about aspects of the situation in Venice, Florida, before the Sept. 11 attack."

Daniel Hopsicker

http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?C...umber=295039780

Hopsicker said that Chams was an associate of Atta et. al. and insinuated/implied he was part of 9/11. Such claims should only be made based on very solid evidence. If not he deserves to get sued. Freedom of speech does not include freedom to libel. His “case” seems to be that

- Atta:

1) cashed a check at his check cashing store (that’s what check cashing joints are for)

2) hug out their supposedly (why would he unnecessarily hang out publicly with a co-conspirator? The place doubled as a convenience store)

3) may have briefly stayed with him (Even if true would be indicative of collusion)

- Shortly after the 1st article came out Chams closed the store and started working for a military contractor (Very weak, perhaps the job paid better with less risk and headaches, perhaps “truthers” started hassling him).

Comparing himself to Garrison is more that a bit self serving elsewhere he refers to himself as a “Fearless investigative journalist”

www.madcowprod.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=MP&Product_Code=pkg003

EDITED to correct quote and add link

Edited September 20, 2007 by Len Colby

[Michael Hogan]

I repeat. I have had many contacts with agents provocateur. I am not referring

to any specific person. But their modus operandi is always identical. They have

no conscience. They prefer to support OFFICIAL STORIES which are provably

untrue.... So scumbags get the jobs. (bold added) People with no ethics, no conscience, no sense of

right and wrong. Names not mentioned to protect the guilty. Please do not infer

that I am discussing any particular person.

Jack White quote removed by Moderator - Evan Burton

Edited September 20, 2007 by Evan Burton
Violation of rule (iv)

[Guest David Guyatt]

Hmmm... I did sound somewhat dismissive in that post.

He seems to be struggling to raise the amount, so to show I'm not completely cold-hearted I've sent his campaign fund a small donation (price of a pint of Guinness).

Suckers. There's one born every minute, and I'm it!

http://www.madcowprod.com/index.html

Beats the sh*t out of me. I didn't send him a penny.

But I am broke also, and can send you details of my bank account if that helps?

David

[Guest David Guyatt]

"I'm not particularly concerned with Makram Chams' lawsuit; I see it as an opportunity to get testimony under oath from an individual which should enlighten all of us about aspects of the situation in Venice, Florida, before the Sept. 11 attack."

Daniel Hopsicker

http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?C...umber=295039780

Hopsicker said that Chams was an associate of Atta et. al. and insinuated/implied he was part of 9/11. Such claims should only be made based on very solid evidence. If not he deserves to get sued. Freedom of speech does not include freedom to libel. His “case” seems to be that

- Atta:

1) cashed a check at his check cashing store (that’s what check cashing joints are for)

2) hug out their supposedly (why would he unnecessarily hang out publicly with a co-conspirator? The place doubled as a convenience store)

3) may have briefly stayed with him (Even if true would be indicative of collusion)

- Shortly after the 1st article came out Chams closed the store and started working for a military contractor (Very weak, perhaps the job paid better with less risk and headaches, perhaps “truthers” started hassling him).

Comparing himself to Garrison is more that a bit self serving elsewhere he refers to himself as a “Fearless investigative journalist”

www.madcowprod.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=MP&Product_Code=pkg003

EDITED to correct quote and add link

Let's not preempt the trial process, Judge Len.

David

[Dave Greer]

Hmmm... I did sound somewhat dismissive in that post.

He seems to be struggling to raise the amount, so to show I'm not completely cold-hearted I've sent his campaign fund a small donation (price of a pint of Guinness).

Suckers. There's one born every minute, and I'm it!

http://www.madcowprod.com/index.html

Beats the sh*t out of me. I didn't send him a penny.

But I am broke also, and can send you details of my bank account if that helps?

David

No problem at all.

I'll just get myself down to Northern Rock and draw some savings out

[Len Colby]

His “case” seems to be that

- Atta:

1) cashed a check at his check cashing store (that’s what check cashing joints are for)

[..]

- Shortly after the 1st article came out Chams closed the store and started working for a military contractor (Very weak, perhaps the job paid better with less risk and headaches, perhaps “truthers” started hassling him).

2 quick corrctions

Chams cashed a wire transfer and

closed his shop shortly after 9/11

[Jack White]

I repeat. I have had many contacts with agents provocateur. I am not referring

to any specific person. But their modus operandi is always identical. They have

no conscience. They prefer to support OFFICIAL STORIES which are provably

untrue.... So scumbags get the jobs. (bold added) People with no ethics, no conscience, no sense of

right and wrong. Names not mentioned to protect the guilty. Please do not infer

that I am discussing any particular person.

Jack White quote removed by Moderator - Evan Burton

I protest the biased removal of my posting. The veracity of people who

post here posing as legitimate researchers is certainly germaine to the

ongoing coverup, in which certain forum members participate. Biased

moderators should not be allowed such control to augment their personal

vendettas. The moderator in question formerly had as his signature

line on every posting...."LITTLE WHITE LIES". The same agenda is

used again here. Is that fair?

Jack

[Evan Burton]

Use the complaints thread at the top of the page, Jack, and ensure other Moderators know you are unhappy. I stand by my actions. You made allusions as to why a person was posting, specifically giving reference to an ulterior motive.

[William Kelly]

Can anyone direct me to a news story or press release naming the General relieved of command, a very rare occassion, or a followup story on the Sept. 14 stand down, test and reup exercise?

I haven't seen any followup.

Thanks,

BK

Bill,

Are you aware of any senior military personnel being "cashiered" for a supposed error, but not having been reported per se?

I am. Sea King Shark 02. Many people were held to account ... justly or otherwise. many people, including very senior Officers, were dismissed.

No details of them have been released, but I know two of those 'senior Officers', one particularly well.

The media does not always follow up on these matters; is there a public source you can check to see if anyone has been relieve of command? Transferred?

I don't know Evan,

but I think each base and each command has its own official web site.

Whoever was releived can probably tell alot of what really happened, but won't/can't.

And today's September 21st, isn't it?

Doomsday for those who took out bets on another catacalismic event?

Are we still here?

Will Bush bomb Iran while their dictator is in NYC?

The day's not over yet.

BK