William Kelly Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 (edited) Bill said:As for 9/11, one of the hijacked planes included an Israeli who was killed by the hijackers, and it appeared that he was either stalking them or firgured out what they were up to and was killed for trying to intervene. What is this guy's name? What is your source for his being involved in any way with what was happening? How do you know he just wasn't on the plane by chance? The guy was in a first class isle seat. When the mussle hijackers began their thing, he was murdered by the hijacker behind him. I don't know his name off hand, but I don't think he "was on the plane by chance" any more than anybody was. No other passangers in any of the hijackings were deliberatly murdered in their seats. As I said, my source is my memory, but I attended all of the public hearings of the 9/11 Commission and read their report, so I trust my memory on this one. Peter asked if I had anything to add to this discussion and that incident came to mind. BK Okay, his name was Daniel Lewin. http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity....ty=daniel_lewin Profile: Daniel Lewin Member Sayeret MatkalDaniel Lewin. [source: Akamai Technologies]Four hijackers get up from their seats and stab or shoot passenger Daniel Lewin, a multimillionaire who once belonged to the Israel Defense Force's Sayeret Matkal, a top-secret counterterrorist unit. Lewin is sitting in front of one of the three hijackers in business class. An initial FAA memo regarding the flight states that Satam Al Suqami shoots Lewin at 9:20 a.m. The time is certainly a typo; perhaps 8:20 a.m. is meant? The killing is mentioned in a phone call from the flight that starts at 8:20 a.m. [Washington Post, 3/2/2002; United Press International, 3/6/2002; ABC News, 7/18/2002] Entity Tags: Satam Al Suqami, Daniel Lewin Timeline Tags: Complete 911 Timeline 8:20 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Israeli Special-Ops Passenger Shot or Stabbed by Hijackers? [source: Akamai Technologies]An FAA memo written on the evening of 9/11, and later leaked, suggests that a man on Flight 11 was shot and killed by a gun before the plane crashed into the WTC. The "Executive Summary," based on information relayed by a flight attendant to the American Airlines Operation Center, stated "that a passenger located in seat 10B [satam Al Suqami] shot and killed a passenger in seat 9B [Daniel Lewin] at 9:20 am." (Note that since Flight 11 crashed at 8:46, the time must be a typo, probably meaning 8:20). A report in Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz on September 17 identifies Lewin as a former member of the Israel Defense Force Sayeret Matkal, Israel's most successful special-operations unit. [United Press International, 3/6/2002] Sayeret Matkal is a deep-penetration unit that has been involved in assassinations, the theft of foreign signals-intelligence materials, and the theft and destruction of foreign nuclear weaponry. Sayeret Matkal is best known for the 1976 rescue of 106 passengers at Entebbe Airport in Uganda. [New Yorker, 10/29/2001] Lewin founded Akamai, a successful computer company, and his connections to Sayeret Matkal remained hidden until the gun story became known. [Guardian, 9/15/2001] FAA and American Airline officials later deny the gun story and suggest that Lewin was probably stabbed to death instead. [Washington Post, 3/2/2002; United Press International, 3/6/2002] Officials assert that the leaked document was a "first draft," and subsequently corrected, but declines to release the final draft, calling it "protected information." However, an FAA official present when the memo was drafted will dispute the FAA's claim, asserting that "[t]he document was reviewed for accuracy by a number of people in the room, including myself and a couple of managers of the operations center." [WorldNetDaily, 3/7/2002] Entity Tags: Sayeret Matkal, American Airlines, Daniel Lewin, Satam Al Suqami, Federal Aviation Administration Timeline Tags: Complete 911 Timeline, 9/11 Timeline Edited November 17, 2007 by William Kelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David Guyatt Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 That is really very, very intersting. Peter's question about how it was known who he was, seems most appropriate -- unless you believe in coincidences. It also appears to destroy the narrative that the hijackers only used box-cutters and plastic knives... David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 That is really very, very intersting. Peter's question about how it was known who he was, seems most appropriate -- unless you believe in coincidences. It also appears to destroy the narrative that the hijackers only used box-cutters and plastic knives...David I'd like to hear what PMB has to say, since she asked the question. BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David Guyatt Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 Peter, I'm with you that Mossad was not behind 911. But that they had pre-knowledge is quite possible given the foregoing. Moreover, 911 would do Israel no harm whatsoever. Arguably, from their political point of view, 911 was beneficial in that it activated the US to take a very powerful - and long term - military occupation in the Middle East. I also rememeber that a senior Israeli politician (I now forget who it was) appeared on British TV on the day of 911 and denounced it as the work of Al Queda. I noted that at the time because it struck me that it was a legend being put in place. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stapleton Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 Whoa! Bill, you just scored a home run. It will be hard to put his role in perspective until more is known about Lewin's background. Seyeret Matkal is news to me. I wonder which assassinations they have apparently put their hand up for? But it changes the 9/11 issue for me. I'm interested in what Pamela has to say, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David Guyatt Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 David, With what I've seen so far, Israel knew about what was to happen and it was to their perceived advantage to warn a very few persons, and just let it proceed. They knew it was a false-flag op by the USA secret govemment and that served Israeli's current govt. just fine.....silence is golden......if immoral. We're more or less on the same wavelength, Peter. I may differ slightly (but only slightly) in that I think it more logical that 911 was a Pearl Harbour deal -- heavily monitored to be sure - and allowed to happen. It may even have been engineered, from deep behind the scenes, and that most of those involved had no idea who was actually behind it...they thought they were striking a blow for the religious ideology (whatever?). This is, as you know, what happened with the Japanese in WWII who were driven by oil sanctions and other factors to attack the US. They did it, but it was allowed to happen to act as the catalyst for the US to enter the war. It is for this reason that I don't really get very involved in the details of the 911 atrocity itself, because I don't really think that is so important. For me they key is winkling out those facts that demonstrate foreknowledge (undoubted in my mind) and which are at a variance with the official legend (ditto the Spanish train bombings and the London 7/7 bombings -- all part of the sdame overall strategy, I think). David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ecker Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 Israeli foreknowledge of 9/11 is also suggested by the relocation of the headquarters of the Zim-American Israeli Shipping Company, one of the largest shipping companies in the world, from the 16th floor of the World Trade Center to Norfolk, Virginia. The move was announced in April 2001, and completed two weeks before 9/11. Of course it can also be just another dadgum coincidence. At the time the Israeli government owned about half of the Zim company's shares. The company was completely privatized in 2004. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Brown Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 [Okay, his name was Daniel Lewin Bill, This is excellent information, thanks. I do have to ask, though, how we know in what capacity Lewin was on that flight? Was he simply doing business or was there something more covert going on? Ant, if there were, which side was he on? If he was, in fact, shot, why? What happened prior to that event? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stapleton Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 (edited) Bill,This is excellent information, thanks. I do have to ask, though, how we know in what capacity Lewin was on that flight? Was he simply doing business or was there something more covert going on? Ant, if there were, which side was he on? If he was, in fact, shot, why? What happened prior to that event? Daniel Lewin's role is a mystery until more is known of him. I doubt he was on the terrorists side, considering they murdered him before they did anything else. And I can't see a parallel with LHO, because there was no requirement for a lone nut patsy in this case. It's interesting that the news agencies claim he was ex-Sayeret Matkal. 31 seems a very young age to move on to other things. Maybe Sayeret Matkal has a lucrative early retirement scheme Is it possible the terrorists discovered his name on the passenger list and decided to kill him because they feared he might tell the other passengers that the plan was to fly into the WTC? (which, one might assume, would cause a mass uprising of all passengers on board and jeopardise the plan). Edited November 19, 2007 by Mark Stapleton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Colby Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 (edited) While I am NOT inclined at all to see Mossad or other Israeli Intelligence behind 9/11, it does seem they had some foreknowledge or hints. This [one of several such] from the 9/11 Timeline http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timelin...ept%2011%202001 (6:00 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Two Hours Before Attacks, Israeli Company Employees Receive Warnings Odigo’s logo. [source: Odigo] Two employees of Odigo, Inc., an Israeli company, receive warnings of an imminent attack in New York City about two hours before the first plane hits the WTC. Odigo, one of the world’s largest instant messaging companies, has its headquarters two blocks from the WTC. The Odigo Research and Development offices where the warnings were received are located in Herzliyya, a suburb of Tel Aviv. Israeli security and the FBI were notified immediately after the 9/11 attacks began. The two employees claim not to know who sent the warnings. “Odigo service includes a feature called People Finder that allows users to seek out and contact others based on certain interests or demographics. [Alex] Diamandis [Odigo vice president of sales and marketing] said it was possible that the attack warning was broadcast to other Odigo members, but the company has not received reports of other recipients of the message.” [Ha'aretz, 9/26/2001; Washington Post, 9/27/2001] Odigo claims the warning did not specifically mention the WTC, but the company refuses to divulge what was specified, claiming, “Providing more details would only lead to more conjecture.” [Washington Post, 9/28/2001] However, a later newspaper report claims that the message declared “that some sort of attack was about to take place. The notes ended with an anti-Semitic slur. ‘The messages said something big was going to happen in a certain amount of time, and it did—almost to the minute,’ said Alex Diamandis, vice president of sales for the high-tech company… He said the employees did not know the person who sent the message, but they traced it to a computer address and have given that information to the FBI.” [Washington Post, 10/4/2001] Odigo gave the FBI the Internet address of the message’s sender so the name of the sender could be found. [Deutsche Presse-Agentur (Hamburg), 9/26/2001] Two months later, it is reported that the FBI is still investigating the matter, but there have been no reports since. [Courier Mail, 11/20/2001] Entity Tags: World Trade Center, Odigo Inc., Israel, Federal Bureau of Investigation Timeline Tags: 9/11 Timeline Category Tags: Israel, Warning Signs, Key Warnings, All Day of 9/11 Events None of the cited sources I could find said the warning indicated the attacks would be in NYC or the WTC. None of the Timeline’s links worked except one that opened the wrong article, but I found some of them elsewhere. The Odigo employees who received the “warning” worked in the Israeli office They didn’t tell anybody till after the attacks indicating they probably didn’t take it seriously. We know about this because they told their bosses who told Israeli authorities wold told the FBI. So what’s the theory someone who knew about the attacks sent an anonymous warning to two people in Israel two hours before they happened? Why wouldn’t the person who knew have contacted the company’s headquarters NYC directly? Why wouldn’t he have done so by phone which wouldn’t have left a paper trail? Why did he word the warning in such a way it wasn't taken seriously enough for the Odigo workers to tell anyone not even people in the company’s head office only a few blocks from the WTC? If it suspected that the company and Israeli authorities we “in on it” why did they tell others about the “warning”? http://s3.amazonaws.com/911timeline/2001/wpost092801.html http://911myths.com/html/odigo.html The various stories rather than confirm each other are in contradiction the folks at Zim knew for months but they still had people working at the WTC, no one warned the people at ClearForest and the Odigo Tel Aviv office only got a warning that wasn't taken seriously for them to tell their HQ a few blocks from the WTC two hours ahead of time. Peter wrote referring to the killing of the Israeli on flight 11: That's a rather amazing and interesting story! These were no ordinary hijackers or terrorists. How would they know who he was [unless he had tried to stop them]? The most obvious explanation is that he tried to stop them, they also could have heard him speaking Hebrew. Other reports seem to indicate he had had his throat cut and others were attacked around the same time a stewardess on the flight told someone from American on the ground that: Two flight attendants, whom she identified by their crew numbers, had already been stabbed, she said. "A hijacker also cut the throat of a business-class passenger, and he appears to be dead," http://www.boston.com/news/daily/20/flight_attendant.htm Once again I don’t see a coherent theory what is it rhe Israelis knew so they put a single resumably unarmed retired commando on the plane where he would he unlike to have been able to do anything but someone else informed the hijackers who Peter does seem to think were there so they could kill him as they began their attack? It’s quite an exaggeration to say that Bill “scored a home run” the story is 5 years old. Mark wrote: “It's interesting that the news agencies claim he was ex-Sayeret Matkal. 31 seems a very young age to move on to other things. Maybe Sayeret Matkal has a lucrative early retirement scheme” Uuuuuh Mark he seems not to have been in the army for several years and to have worked for computer companies like IBM before co-founding an internet content provider which presumably a lot more “lucrative” than being an Israeli commando according to various reports he was a millionaire. So Mark do ya think going to IBM etc etc was part of his cover? Where the other partners of the company who incidentlly weren’t Jewish “in on it” too? http://www.akamai.com/html/about/company_history.html http://sec.edgar-online.com/1999/09/27/17/...0/Section30.asp As for Zim, it still had about 10 people in the building, another Israeli company, Clear Forest, even more. The move was subsidized by the Virginia state government and happened after their lease ran out. http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity....eli_shipping_co. http://s3.amazonaws.com/911timeline/2001/j...erce101801.html http://www.israelnewsagency.com/israel911september91104.html http://s3.amazonaws.com/911timeline/2001/j...post091301.html Edited November 20, 2007 by Len Colby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stapleton Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Mark wrote: “It's interesting that the news agencies claim he was ex-Sayeret Matkal. 31 seems a very young age to move on to other things. Maybe Sayeret Matkal has a lucrative early retirement scheme” Uuuuuh Mark he seems not to have been in the army for several years and to have worked for computer companies like IBM before co-founding an internet content provider which presumably a lot more “lucrative” than being an Israeli commando according to various reports he was a millionaire. So Mark do ya think going to IBM etc etc was part of his cover? Where the other partners of the company who incidentlly weren’t Jewish “in on it” too? http://www.akamai.com/html/about/company_history.html http://sec.edgar-online.com/1999/09/27/17/...0/Section30.asp Predictably, you have your nose out of joint whenever Israel or Mossad are considered with suspicion. Of course, you are not as strident in defence of other agencies. I know zip about Lewin and little more after reading your post. Can you find where I have claimed Lewin was anything but a mystery? Lose the attitude. Lewin may well have been a mild mannered millionaire going about his regular routine but my suspicion is tweaked when it is reliably reported that the hijackers considerd his summary execution to be their first order of business. Maybe the terrorists just hated those technology millionaire types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David Guyatt Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Lewin may well have been a mild mannered millionaire going about his regular routine but my suspicion is tweaked when it is reliably reported that the hijackers considerd his summary execution to be their first order of business. Maybe the terrorists just hated those technology millionaire types. Mark, as I'm sure you're probably already aware, large corporations are regularly used as cover for intelligence agents. This is a very common practise, in fact. So the conjecture that Lewin may still have been part of the Sayeret Matkal (or even some other as yet unknown Israeli intelligence operation) stands as being valid. IBM, for example, has often been used as a cover for CIA (see link below). The practise is known by the acronym NOC - for Non Official Cover. Len doesn't know a thing about these things; his arguments are spurious and sensibly are to be ignored on a daily basis. http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/19...1/dreyfuss.html I would also note that earlier in this thread we had discussed PROMIS software and that it is now known that Mossad had placed that software into IBM computers that were then sold to other nations by Earl Brian (of Hadron Inc., a US company). Brian was appointed to a White House post in the Reagan Administration and had close financial dealings in the PROMIS story with Ed Meese, Reagan's Attorney General. Therefore, it is entirely consitent to speculate that computer firms like IBM would be penetrated by Israel intelligence (perhaps even welcomed through the door under some CIA - Mossad intelligence sharing arrangement?). This may well explain Lewin's employment by them prior to setting up his own firm - arguably as a further cover for Israeli intelligence gathering. See: http://cryptome.sabotage.org/promis-mossad.htm David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stapleton Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 Mark, as I'm sure you're probably already aware, large corporations are regularly used as cover for intelligence agents. This is a very common practise, in fact. So the conjecture that Lewin may still have been part of the Sayeret Matkal (or even some other as yet unknown Israeli intelligence operation) stands as being valid. IBM, for example, has often been used as a cover for CIA (see link below). The practise is known by the acronym NOC - for Non Official Cover. Len doesn't know a thing about these things; his arguments are spurious and sensibly are to be ignored on a daily basis. http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/19...1/dreyfuss.html I would also note that earlier in this thread we had discussed PROMIS software and that it is now known that Mossad had placed that software into IBM computers that were then sold to other nations by Earl Brian (of Hadron Inc., a US company). Brian was appointed to a White House post in the Reagan Administration and had close financial dealings in the PROMIS story with Ed Meese, Reagan's Attorney General. Therefore, it is entirely consitent to speculate that computer firms like IBM would be penetrated by Israel intelligence (perhaps even welcomed through the door under some CIA - Mossad intelligence sharing arrangement?). This may well explain Lewin's employment by them prior to setting up his own firm - arguably as a further cover for Israeli intelligence gathering. See: http://cryptome.sabotage.org/promis-mossad.htm David David, Thanks for those comments and links. Unlike objective researchers who would, imo, consider the issue of Daniel Lewin, his intelligence connections and his sudden death highly suspicious, Len simply jumps in and tells all and sundry that there is nothing suspicious and we must not think such things. He's blown his cover (well, some time ago actually). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Brown Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 There was another Israeli on UA 175 that crfashed into WTC2 (south). Her name was Alona Avraham. She was from Ashdot, Israel. There is speculation she may have been Mossad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted November 21, 2007 Author Share Posted November 21, 2007 (edited) Peter...interesting scenarios...but filled with speculations* which do not fit known facts. Nevertheless, lots of good info and food for thought. Jack *for instance, the Pentagon plane definitely did not hit the ground. Edited November 21, 2007 by Jack White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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