Orest Pena's HSCA Testimony

[David Boylan]

Another possible reason this doc was withheld for a bit is the info that is on page 15 (16 by arrow). Pena mentions Juan Caballero, the CIA training camp and the Cadre.

The Camp was Belle Chasse aka JMMOVE. The "cadre" was made up of the original group of Brigade members. Most of these 30-40 were followers of Manuel Artime. Their purpose was to become proficiently trained in paramilitary tactics - weapons, explosives, infiltration, maritime. Some would train to be "frogmen" (Ramon Orozco) and others train as paratroopers (Nestor "Tony" Izquierdo). They were screened by Ernie Sparks, given lie detector tests, and processed through Useppa Island by Carl Jenkins and "Gordon." Jenkins and Col. Glen "Rocky" Farnsworth would train these guys in Panama. The idea was for these first recruits to train the next few batches of recruits. This is how the "cadre" ended up at JMMOVE. They were to help train Nino Diaz's (AMNORM) group. Diaz's group was to be the "feint" that drew Castro's men away from the Bay of Pigs.

The cadre, most were members of the AMHAZE team, would become raiders and small infiltration teams. This group would later continue to work with Rip Robertson, Grayston Lynch and David Morales deputy chief of Ops, Bob Wall.

Pena mentioned Juan Caballero's brother and cousin. The cousin supposedly looked like Oswald. Juan's brother was most likely Conrado Caballero. Conrado was an early recruit (Brigade number 2547) and was at Belle Chasse. He would later work for Rip Robertson running infiltration and sabotage missions in Cuba. Some would join up with Artime for his AMWORLD program run by Henry Hecksher and Carl Jenkins.

Conrado at AMWORLD. Item 8 as a recruiter - https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=227#relPageId=8

Edited July 19, 2022 by David Boylan

[David Boylan]

I can't seem to paste a photo. I'm limited to 127 K?

Try this. - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BUl-q0Q-VdXNJtNQDhlL2MAHvj2ZhOdS/view?usp=sharing

Edited July 13, 2022 by David Boylan

[Tom Gram]

46 minutes ago, David Boylan said:

Another possible reason this doc was withheld for a bit is the info that is on page 15 (16 by arrow). Pena mentions Juan Caballero, the CIA training camp and the Cadre.

The Camp was Belle Chasse aka JMMOVE. The "cadre" was made up of the original group of Brigade members. Most of these 30-40 were followers of Manuel Artime. Their purpose was to become proficiently trained in paramilitary tactics - weapons, explosives, infiltration, maritime. Some would train to be "frogmen" (Ramon Orozco) and others train as paratroopers (Nestor "Tony" Izquierdo). They were screened by Ernie Sparks, given lie detector tests, and processed through Useppa Island by Carl Jenkins and "Gordon." Jenkins and Col. Glen "Rocky" Farnsworth would train these guys in Panama. The idea was for these first recruits to train the next few batches of recruits. This is how the "cadre" ended up at JMMOVE. They were to help train Nino Diaz's (AMNORM) group. Diaz's group was to be the "faint" that drew Castro's men away from the Bay of Pigs.

The cadre, most were members of the AMHAZE team, would become raiders and small infiltration teams. This group would later continue to work with Rip Robertson, Grayston Lynch and David Morales deputy chief of Ops, Bob Wall.

Pena mentioned Juan Caballero's brother and cousin. The cousin supposedly looked like Oswald. Juan's brother was most likely Conrado Caballero. Conrado was an early recruit (Brigade number 2547) and was at Belle Chasse. He would later work for Rip Robertson running infiltration and sabotage missions in Cuba. Some would join up with Artime for his AMWORLD program run by Henry Hecksher and Carl Jenkins.

Conrado at AMWORLD. Item 8 as a recruiter - https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=227#relPageId=8

 

 

Thanks for all the great info. I noticed the mention of Caballero, since his alias, "El Guajiro" reminded me of a reference made by Fernando Fernandez to someone he alleged to be the owner of the Summer '63 MDC camp named Cetonio "Gaugin", on whom the FBI were unable to find any information. It's a bit of a stretch and I doubt there's any relevance but that's what popped into my head: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=9986#relPageId=20

Pena testified in regards to the assassination: "everything came out of the Cuban training in New Orleans" Page 35. What's your opinion on this? You've gone deeper into the Cuban angle than pretty much anyone... Do you think there is any connection between JMMOVE and the training activities taking place in the Summer of '63, etc.?

Also, the HSCA did not follow up on Pena's testimony with David Smith and Wendell Roache (that we know of), along with some of the other leads he provided, and considering what happened to the Church Committee records that's more than a little suspicious, IMO. 

Edited July 13, 2022 by Tom Gram

[David Boylan]

Thanks Tom,

 

We went into quite a bit here - https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Essay_-_The_Wheaton_Lead.html

[Tom Gram]

4 hours ago, David Boylan said:

Thanks Tom,

 

We went into quite a bit here - https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Essay_-_The_Wheaton_Lead.html

Fascinating essay. I think I have read it once before but I wasn't able to absorb nearly as much.

What is your take on the Lacombe MDC camp? It seems to me like its only purpose was either to entrap Cuban spies, which they supposedly succeeded in with Fernando Fernandez; or it was just a racket set up to collect money to support the "cause" (which was Fernandez's impression of the camp); or some combination of both.

What's interesting to me is that everyone involved in the MDC camp always denied knowledge of the McLaney arms cache - but they: 1) almost exclusively referred to it as another "camp"; 2) reported gun shots and explosions from that direction; and 3) said that the other "camp" was run strictly by Minutemen/Birchers while it was really a staging area for the DRE. 

The Church Committee wrote in their report that the two sites were owned by the same people, but they didn't provide a footnote. Wendell Roache provided information on a training camp, and said that the INS was tasked with surveillance of Cuban groups in New Orleans. Could he (or someone else from INS) have been their source? 

Basically my question is this: do you think it's possible that Pena was referring to other training activities in New Orleans besides Camp Belle Chasse in connection with the assassination? 

[James DiEugenio]

You know, I think Tom is beginning to indicate what happened with all that stuff from Roache, Smith and Bero.

If I recall, Bill Davy showed me the  the first Church Committee interview with Roache.  Darndest thing, it just  fizzled out in the middle when he was getting into some really fascinating stuff. Just stopped.  Bill showed me the blank page and said, "JIm, and that is it.  It just stops."

Joan Mellen got into it with Tunheim  once on this issue.  Why did the ARRB not pursue the whole angle of Oswald with Customs?  

BTW, doesn't Garrison mention this issue in his book? I think he mentions DeBrueys meeting with Oswald at the Customs office. 

You wonder: were the Customs guys in cahoots with the CIA, or the FBI in running Oswald?

Edited July 14, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[James DiEugenio]

Here it is, I found it.

Its on page 182, Garrison briefly mentions the issue.

"An informant had told us that DeBrueys was so involved with Guy Banister, David Ferrie and the anti Castro Cubans that instead of operating out of local Bureau headquarters, he had a special office at the Customs House on Canal Street...."

Boy is that interesting.  Especially in light of what we know today.  Garrison was really ahead of the pack.

Edited July 14, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[Tom Gram]

54 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Here it is, I found it.

Its on page 182, Garrison briefly mentions the issue.

"An informant had told us that DeBrueys was so involved with Guy Banister, David Ferrie and the anti Castro Cubans that instead of operating of local Bureau headquarters, he had a special office at the Customs House on Canal Street...."

Boy is that interesting.  Especially in light of what we know today.  Garrison was really ahead of the pack.

No kidding. Wendell Roache himself agreed. From a memo on Roache's second phone call to Paul Wallach: 

Roache stressed that the NOPD (specifically the intelligence division) and the East Metaire's Sheriff's Office had reports on Ferrie's group. He added that "Garrison had something; I read his reports in the newspaper and they were correct, he received good intelligence information, whether he was using it for politics or not." Roach also noted that (1) Garrison was all eyes and ears in the French Quarter and (2) that he had heard Ferrie was running when he was killed. 

Regarding Customs, it's very possible, if not likely IMO, that David Smith was being used as a cut-out by CIA. This is discussed a few times by Malcolm Blunt in his DPUK talks with Bart Kamp. The CIA did the same thing with Customs agent Cesar Diosado in Key West, so we know that CIA operated under Customs cover. Diosado was not visibly an agency employee or contractor, but his Customs salary was being reimbursed by CIA and he was basically a full-time covert agent. I think Smith is a prime suspect for the same type of arrangement. 

Blunt also notes that quite a few very high level CIA officers were in New Orleans in the Summer of '63; "heavy hitters" as Blunt calls them. I only recall Kent and Joannides, but there were at least two more. What were they all doing there? 

If CIA was really running a domestic propaganda operation, per their charter (not like the actually followed it) wouldn't they technically have to liaise with a domestic agency? Could that be where DeBrueys fits in?

[Benjamin Cole]

If has been years since I read the Church Committee--Wendell Roache interview...and the way it abruptly ends defies the imagination. 

LHO was obviously running with anti-Castro Cubans and US intel assets in NO, at a minimum. 

[David Boylan]

13 hours ago, Tom Gram said:

Fascinating essay. I think I have read it once before but I wasn't able to absorb nearly as much.

What is your take on the Lacombe MDC camp? It seems to me like its only purpose was either to entrap Cuban spies, which they supposedly succeeded in with Fernando Fernandez; or it was just a racket set up to collect money to support the "cause" (which was Fernandez's impression of the camp); or some combination of both.

What's interesting to me is that everyone involved in the MDC camp always denied knowledge of the McLaney arms cache - but they: 1) almost exclusively referred to it as another "camp"; 2) reported gun shots and explosions from that direction; and 3) said that the other "camp" was run strictly by Minutemen/Birchers while it was really a staging area for the DRE. 

The Church Committee wrote in their report that the two sites were owned by the same people, but they didn't provide a footnote. Wendell Roache provided information on a training camp, and said that the INS was tasked with surveillance of Cuban groups in New Orleans. Could he (or someone else from INS) have been their source? 

Basically my question is this: do you think it's possible that Pena was referring to other training activities in New Orleans besides Camp Belle Chasse in connection with the assassination? 

Tom,

If my failing memory is still working, I believe the MDC camp was funded by Luis Somoza as part of the Somoza plan. Due to conflicts with Artime's AMWORLD program, the Somoza plan never went anywhere.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=21906#relPageId=2

I think we had quite discussion on here about FOUR camps that were in the New Orleans area in 1963. I haven't found it yet.

 

[Tom Gram]

3 hours ago, David Boylan said:

Tom,

If my failing memory is still working, I believe the MDC camp was funded by Luis Somoza as part of the Somoza plan. Due to conflicts with Artime's AMWORLD program, the Somoza plan never went anywhere.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=21906#relPageId=2

I think we had quite discussion on here about FOUR camps that were in the New Orleans area in 1963. I haven't found it yet.

 

Thanks again. I'd seen references to Somoza authorizing the MDC camp but not that CIA document.

That's pretty interesting, since Laureno Batista told James Alcock in 1967 that he was approached about the camp by Ricky Davis, and that he found the fact that Somoza had given his approval disquieting because it meant that the plan had CIA authorization - and many Cubans didn't trust the CIA. Batista also said unequivocally that the McLaney camp was run by "fanatical right wingers". 

Is it credible that Batista wouldn't know that the McLaney cache was a DRE operation? Is there any connection between the MDC oil refinery bombing plan and the DRE explosives cache? 

I'd love to see that discussion if you find it. What do you think was the role of the CRC, if any, in the training activities? I ask because Arnesto Rodriguez was on the secret CRC military committee; and very shortly after he supposedly meets Oswald, Oswald approaches Bringuier offering to train Cuban guerrillas. Manuel Blanco, another guy on the military committee, was literal next door neighbors to Bringuier and Sergio Arcacha Smith throughout 1962. There's also evidence of Blanco being a CIA asset - according to Rodriguez himself: 

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=84947#relPageId=4

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=84465#relPageId=3

[David Boylan]

Tom,

I found a long discussion - 

Arnesto was teaching Oswald Spanish during the summer of '63.

[David Boylan]

And more - 

 

[James DiEugenio]

 Dave,

I think there may have been four camps around New Orleans.

[David Boylan]

Jim,

You are right. I need to go back and look at them to refresh my failing memory. 🙂