Revisiting Tatum's testimony at the Tippit crime scene

[Greg Doudna]

EDIT ADDED 8/9/22: I see errors in this thread in my interpretation of what Tatum said he saw at the crime scene. I am preparing a rewrite of what follows throughout this thread.

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Revisiting Tatum's testimony at the Tippit crime scene

After further study of the Jack Tatum story I have become convinced that the individual Tatum saw run around the back of the Tippit cruiser and go up to Tippit, and then Tatum said he observed shoot a final shot at Tippit into the head, was not the gunman but was a witness at the scene, William Smith, the friend of Jimmy Burt. The gunman fired his shots from the passenger and/or front side of the car, then returned to the sidewalk and fled throwing out shell hulls as seen by Benavides, and had already left Tenth by the time Tatum got through the intersection and brought his car to a stop, after hearing the shots, before turning and looking back. Assuming William Smith was not himself a second gunman, there would be no final shot into Tippit and no gun in the hand of the man Tatum saw after he stopped his car and looked back.

Jimmy Burt's FBI statement of 12/16/63 says he drove with William Smith to the Tippit cruiser, pulling up in his car the wrong way headed west in front of the Tippit cruiser. Burt said both he and Smith got out of the car, and that he, Burt (no mention of Smith), saw and followed the gunman on foot.

William Smith in his Warren Commission testimony said he saw the shooting (presumably from a half-block down the street), and then (this would be upon exiting Jimmy Burt's car at the scene) went to where the fallen Tippit was and looked at him lying on the ground. (Mr. Ball: Did you go down to where the policeman was shot? Mr. Smith: Yes ... saw the policeman lying on the ground. I mean on the street.)

That puts William Smith where Tatum saw him, and where Frank Wright saw him. The man standing over the fallen Tippit that witness Frank Wright saw then becomes William Smith, not the gunman as Wright mistakenly thought--this being the same William Smith that Tatum saw, standing and looking over the prone body of Tippit. Wright said he saw no gun in the man's hand which would be in agreement with William Smith not having been a gunman.

Frank Wright said he saw the man standing over Tippit, who was actually William Smith, run and drive off in a gray car of similar description to Jimmy Burt's car. Wright saw the gray car peculiarly parked facing the wrong way the same as Jimmy Burt described peculiarly parking his car. That is because what Frank Wright saw was Jimmy Burt's car and Frank Wright saw William Smith run into Jimmy Burt's car and that car driving off. Frank Wright thought he had seen Tippit's killer drive off in a car. What he actually saw was William Smith leave the scene in Jimmy Burt's car.

It never made sense that the actual gunman would fire some shots, then go around the back of the car and deliver another shot to the head, and no other witness, neither Benavides nor anyone else would notice the gunman having done that. I am convinced the man Tatum saw from start to finish after Tatum stopped his car was not the gunman but William Smith. (Earlier, as Tatum drove by heading west on Tenth, Tatum did see the real gunman leaning down to talk to Tippit through a window on the passenger side but that was before the shots and before Tippit stopped his car to look back after the shots. The suggestion is the man Tatum saw when he drove by before the shots was not the same man Tatum saw when he looked back after the shots.)

If correct, this explanation has another finding or implication. For Tatum positively--with total certainty-- identified the man he saw as Lee Harvey Oswald. And yet it may become realized that the man Tatum saw after the shots and stopping of his car was not Oswald because the man can be otherwise identified based on the testimonies of Frank Wright, Jimmy Burt, and William Smith: Tatum saw William Smith, a witness at the scene.

This may show how unreliable positive identifications of eyewitnesses can be, in cases of no prior acquaintance and brief sightings from short distances. A recognition that Tatum was at the crime scene, did see the man he saw after he stopped his car, but it wasn't Oswald, will not exonerate Oswald since Oswald might or might not be the killer of Tippit on other grounds.

But it undercuts confidence in all of the Tenth and Patton eyewitness positive identifications of the gunman as Oswald as a basis for certainty in arriving at a conclusion of Oswald's guilt, by showing how convincing one of those eyewitness's positive identifications has been ... except it may have been wrong.  

Edited August 9, 2022 by Greg Doudna

[Greg Doudna]

Frank Wright's account (as told to George and Patricia Nash, 1964) of seeing the same man Tatum saw, William Smith:

I was sitting watching television with my wife. I was sitting in a chair next to the door. I wasn't but two steps from the door. I heard shots ... I went out the door. I could see a police car in the next block. It was toward the end of the next block. I could see it clearly ... I saw a person right by the car. He had fallen down ... I looked around to see what had happened ... I saw a man standing right in front of the car. He was looking toward the man on the ground. He stood there for a while and looked at the man. The man who was standing in front of him was about medium height. He had on a long coat. It ended just above his hands. I didn't see any gun. He ran around on the passenger side of the police car. He ran as fast as he could go and he got into his car. The car was a grey, little old coupe. It was about a 1950-1951, maybe a Plymouth. It was a grey car, parked on the same side of the street as the police car but beyond it from me. It was heading away from me. He got in that car and he drove away as quick as you could see. He drove down 10th Street, away from me ...

"I couldn't figure out who did the shooting. I didn't see a gun on the man who was standing in front of the car ... after a while, the police came. I tried to tell two or three people what I saw. They didn't pay any attention. I've seen what came out on television and in the papers but I know that's not what happened. I know a man drove off in a grey car. Nothing in the world's going to change my opinion. I saw that man drive off in a grey coupe just as clear as I was born. I know what I saw. They can say all they want about a fellow running away, but I can't accept this because I saw a fellow get in a car and drive away."

Jimmy Burt describes his car at the scene of the crime (FBI 12/15/63):

"He [Jimmy Burt] and Smith immediately ran from the house toward his car, a 1952 two-tone blue Ford which was parked facing south on Denver Street. As they ran from the house they heard four more shots making a total of six. Burt said he drove his car to the next intersection which is Denver and 10th Streets and turned west on 10th. He immediately saw a police car parked at the curb in the middle of the block. It was parked facing east on 10th Street. A police officer was lying on the street near the left front wheel ... Burt parked his car in front of the police car on the same side of the street with the front end facing the west. He and Smith jumped out of the car ... "

Edited July 30, 2022 by Greg Doudna

[Tom Gram]

Compelling stuff Greg. The eyewitness identifications are propped up as incontrovertible proof that Oswald shot Tippit, but with the fraudulent lineups and stuff like this they are really just a data point that suggests the killer resembled Oswald - a generic looking, average sized white guy. 

Are there any photographs of William Smith that you know of, or even a description? I bet you could find a yearbook photo or something on ancestry.com but it would be a nightmare trying to track down someone with such a common name. 

Another thing, I’d have to double-check but I’m pretty sure Paul Bentley told Larry Sneed that he pulled fingerprints from the passenger side window area. I highly doubt the prints still exist - if they ever did to begin with - but if those prints matched the fender prints, or the location on the fender prints was actually the window it’d be pretty interesting. Bentley told Sneed he was under the impression that the prints were Oswald’s, but obviously they weren’t or we would’ve heard about it. Do you know anything about these alleged window prints?

I also applaud you for your efforts to correct the record with Myers’ god-awful hit piece.  

Edited July 30, 2022 by Tom Gram

[Bill Brown]

21 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

Revisiting Tatum's testimony at the Tippit crime scene

After further study of the Jack Tatum story I have become convinced that the individual Tatum saw run around the back of the Tippit cruiser and go up to Tippit, and then Tatum said he observed shoot a final shot at Tippit into the head, was not the gunman but was a witness at the scene, William Smith, the friend of Jimmy Burt.

First, so you do now accept that Tatum's account has the man going around the back of the patrol car and not the front, right?  Just asking for confirmation.  Or, are you now saying that Tatum saw the killer go around the front of the car and moments later saw a witness go around the back of the car?

 

Second, based on the account given by Tatum himself, Bill Smith, who was about three-fourths of a block east of the shooting scene (not a half block, as you claimed) would not have been able to make it to the scene at that early point in the timeline to be seen by Tatum (and Frank Wright, too).

 

Simply put, Bill Smith was not at the scene in time.

 

[Greg Doudna]

On 7/30/2022 at 10:46 AM, Tom Gram said:

Compelling stuff Greg. The eyewitness identifications are propped up as incontrovertible proof that Oswald shot Tippit, but with the fraudulent lineups and stuff like this they are really just a data point that suggests the killer resembled Oswald - a generic looking, average sized white guy. 

Are there any photographs of William Smith that you know of, or even a description? I bet you could find a yearbook photo or something on ancestry.com but it would be a nightmare trying to track down someone with such a common name. 

Another thing, I’d have to double-check but I’m pretty sure Paul Bentley told Larry Sneed that he pulled fingerprints from the passenger side window area. I highly doubt the prints still exist - if they ever did to begin with - but if those prints matched the fender prints, or the location on the fender prints was actually the window it’d be pretty interesting. Bentley told Sneed he was under the impression that the prints were Oswald’s, but obviously they weren’t or we would’ve heard about it. Do you know anything about these alleged window prints?

I also applaud you for your efforts to correct the record with Myers’ god-awful hit piece.  

Tom, on Paul Bentley and fingerprints in Sneed, interesting, I had not noticed that. You are right, p. 286, Bentley says he went with Barnes to the scene of the crime for the purpose of obtaining fingerprints from the Tippit cruiser and Bentley remembers them as being Oswald's prints! "Officer Barnes lifted prints from the passenger side of the patrol car which I understood were Oswald's palm and fingerprints"(!). Of course the Sneed volume is oral history, memories taken down in the 1990s. That "false memory" (in favor of incrimination of Oswald) got an asterisk and a footnote from the editor, which reads: "Bentley is likely in error on this point. In fact, the absence of fingerprints on the car [!] has prompted some conspiracy theorists to state that Oswald was not at 10th and Patton streets at the time of Tippit's death ... If Oswald's prints had been lifted from the car, it would have confirmed his presence at the scene. At least, no record of his prints on the car are known to exist."

As should be more widely known now, in 1998 Myers published new information he obtained in 1994 from latent fingerprint examiner Herbert Lutz, that the fingerprints Barnes lifted from just under the right front passenger window and the right front bumper of the Tippit cruiser were from a single individual whose identity is not known but the one person in the universe that individual was not was Lee Harvey Oswald. 

On photographs of William Lawrence Arthur Smith, the friend of Jimmy Burt, yes, Myers publishes two photos of him, on pp. 111 and 218 of 2013. Difficult to estimate height from the one at p. 218, standing next to his brother they both look slim and the same height, about average height? William Smith was friends with Helen Markham's juvenile delinquent son Jimmy. William Smith said in his WC testimony he talked to Helen Markham at the scene of the crime. Is it possible some of Helen Markham's earliest descriptions of the man she thought was the killer were in part descriptions of William Smith?

 

Edited August 2, 2022 by Greg Doudna

[Greg Doudna]

14 minutes ago, Bill Brown said:

First, so you do now accept that Tatum's account has the man going around the back of the patrol car and not the front, right?  Just asking for confirmation.

That is correct, I accept Tatum's account concerning the person he saw going around the back of the patrol car. 

Edited July 30, 2022 by Greg Doudna

[Bill Brown]

Greg, you rely heavily on Frank Wright, in trying to advance the idea that Bill Smith is the man seen by Tatum approaching Tippit's body from the back of the patrol car.  You correctly point out that Wright, when he got out to the street and looked west along Tenth, said he saw a man standing over the body.  You say you now believe this man standing over the body is Bill Smith.

 

You also rely on Myers' claim that in the 2013 version of With Malice, that Bill Smith is seen (in a photo on page 218 of Myers' book) standing with his brother in one of the aftermath photos.

 

One of the problems for you is that Frank Wright said the man he saw standing over the body was wearing a "long coat".

 

Bill Smith isn't wearing a long coat.

 

[Gerry Down]

In a recent interview, Dale Myers now discounts the Tatum sighting (See 57 minutes to 1 hour 3 minutes on the below video):

 

I was surprised to hear him say this. Because for a 1993 documentary, he was supporting Tatums sequence of events (See the below video at 1 hour 30 minutes):

I guess this just shows Myers is open to updating his beliefs on the Tippit shooting based on his re-studying of the evidence. 

[Greg Doudna]

15 minutes ago, Bill Brown said:

are you now saying that Tatum saw the killer go around the front of the car and moments later saw a witness go around the back of the car?

It was all a witness that he saw, after Tatum stopped his car after the shots and looked back. I am suggesting after Tatum stopped his car and looked back he saw William Smith, not the killer. The killer was already gone by the time Tatum looked back.

19 minutes ago, Bill Brown said:

Second, based on the account given by Tatum himself, Bill Smith, who was about three-fourths of a block east of the shooting scene (not a half block, as you claimed) would not have been able to make it to the scene at that early point in the timeline to be seen by Tatum (and Frank Wright, too).

Simply put, Bill Smith was not at the scene in time.

Bill you raise a good point that caused me a lot of thought but I believe this objection is in the end insubstantial. Let us accept that Smith and Burt are at that corner house, the three-fourths of a block east. Burt's car is parked on Denver facing south. According to Burt, as soon as they heard two shots they raced to the car before the next four (according to Burt) shots had happened. Burt turns the ignition and drives the car, immediate right on Tenth, then x hundreds of yards to pull up to a rapid halt in front of the Tippit cruiser. The positioning of Burt's car--facing west on the south side of Tenth, opposite direction--indicates both that the Burt car arrived after the Tippit cruiser is there and that the stop was sudden. Both exit the Burt car immediately, and according to Burt, he saw the killer just before he went around south on Patton. 

The question is how much time was there between the second shot and when the killer turned that corner on Patton (if Burt's claim is correct). I have tried to mentally imagine how long it would feasibly take for Smith and Burt to get from point A to point B under these conditions, and I come up with possibly as little as 60 seconds. On the killer's end, from shot #2 to shot #5 including moving to proximity to Tippit for a coup de grace in the head, then the walking (not running) that Benavides observed if the killer after Benavides came up from his ducking), then the killer on the sidewalk of Tenth headed west observed fumbling with the gun with both hands, and Benavides observing him pause slightly as the killer tosses out one shell hull, then takes a few steps and tosses out a second shell hull, before changing pace only then into a slow trot as he heads around on to Patton. Maybe ca. 75 seconds for all that (including that coup de grace shot into the temple, which must be accounted for from the autopsy. 

Remember Benavides heard three shots, looked up, saw Tippit falling (no mention of the killer standing next to Tippit). Tippit is not upright after the third shot. The only way the killer can get a line of fire to Tippit after shot #3 is go around the front of the car and shoot him while he is on the ground, and the shot in the temple when Tippit is on the ground. I think Benavides never saw that because, scared to death, he had ducked down again. When he looked up again now the shooting is over and he sees the killer just as he has turned and is walking back to the sidewalk. This would account for the autopsy findings of the bullets, accounts for how the killer can hit a prone Tippit at all after shot #3, and accounts for why Benavides did not witness it (he was ducked down in his cab again; also did not hear any shots #4 or #5 either, though they happened). 

Now on Tatum. Tatum hears what he says were three shots, in his various accounts he says, could be two, could be four, but anyway, he hears those shots as he is entering or going through the intersection of Tenth and Patton. Now he possibly could have pulled over, come to a complete stop, and turned around for his good look very quickly, but to go through the intersection and park at the side and come safely to a full stop before turning around could be ca. 60 seconds or even more, it is not certain. When he does look back, that is when he sees Smith running around the back of the cruiser (and after the killer has gone south on Patton).

As for Frank Wright, it must be supposed he did not go out the front door within seconds as his account suggests but must have gotten out the door, come down the steps of his porch (I assume), went out a little into his front yard to get a good look, and looked, and it must be assumed that took perhaps ca. 60 seconds before he saw the man standing (identified here as William Smith on the basis of the car Frank Wright saw him leave the scene in). Wright also might have seen the prone Tippit some indeterminate small space of time before seeing the standing figure (Smith).

I am pretty sure the man Frank Wright and Tatum saw--Frank Wright describing a man with no gun in hand who looked like he was just standing and looking around--had to have been Smith (unless it was Burt, but the testimonies agree better with Smith). 

What do you think Bill, does that make sense?

[Bill Brown]

10 minutes ago, Greg Doudna said:

It was all a witness that he saw, after Tatum stopped his car after the shots and looked back. I am suggesting after Tatum stopped his car and looked back he saw William Smith, not the killer. The killer was already gone by the time Tatum looked back.

Bill you raise a good point that caused me a lot of thought but I believe this objection is in the end insubstantial. Let us accept that Smith and Burt are at that corner house, the three-fourths of a block east. Burt's car is parked on Denver facing south. According to Burt, as soon as they heard two shots they raced to the car before the next four (according to Burt) shots had happened. Burt turns the ignition and drives the car, immediate right on Tenth, then x hundreds of yards to pull up to a rapid halt in front of the Tippit cruiser. The positioning of Burt's car--facing west on the south side of Tenth, opposite direction--indicates both that the Burt car arrived after the Tippit cruiser is there and that the stop was sudden. Both exit the Burt car immediately, and according to Burt, he saw the killer just before he went around south on Patton. 

The question is how much time was there between the second shot and when the killer turned that corner on Patton (if Burt's claim is correct). I have tried to mentally imagine how long it would feasibly take for Smith and Burt to get from point A to point B under these conditions, and I come up with possibly as little as 60 seconds. On the killer's end, from shot #2 to shot #5 including moving to proximity to Tippit for a coup de grace in the head, then the walking (not running) that Benavides observed if the killer after Benavides came up from his ducking), then the killer on the sidewalk of Tenth headed west observed fumbling with the gun with both hands, and Benavides observing him pause slightly as the killer tosses out one shell hull, then takes a few steps and tosses out a second shell hull, before changing pace only then into a slow trot as he heads around on to Patton. Maybe ca. 75 seconds for all that (including that coup de grace shot into the temple, which must be accounted for from the autopsy. 

Remember Benavides heard three shots, looked up, saw Tippit falling (no mention of the killer standing next to Tippit). Tippit is not upright after the third shot. The only way the killer can get a line of fire to Tippit after shot #3 is go around the front of the car and shoot him while he is on the ground, and the shot in the temple when Tippit is on the ground. I think Benavides never saw that because, scared to death, he had ducked down again. When he looked up again now the shooting is over and he sees the killer just as he has turned and is walking back to the sidewalk. This would account for the autopsy findings of the bullets, accounts for how the killer can hit a prone Tippit at all after shot #3, and accounts for why Benavides did not witness it (he was ducked down in his cab again; also did not hear any shots #4 or #5 either, though they happened). 

Now on Tatum. Tatum hears what he says were three shots, in his various accounts he says, could be two, could be four, but anyway, he hears those shots as he is entering or going through the intersection of Tenth and Patton. Now he possibly could have pulled over, come to a complete stop, and turned around for his good look very quickly, but to go through the intersection and park at the side and come safely to a full stop before turning around could be ca. 60 seconds or even more, it is not certain. When he does look back, that is when he sees Smith running around the back of the cruiser (and after the killer has gone south on Patton).

As for Frank Wright, it must be supposed he did not go out the front door within seconds as his account suggests but must have gotten out the door, come down the steps of his porch (I assume), went out a little into his front yard to get a good look, and looked, and it must be assumed that took perhaps ca. 60 seconds before he saw the man standing (identified here as William Smith on the basis of the car Frank Wright saw him leave the scene in). Wright also might have seen the prone Tippit some indeterminate small space of time before seeing the standing figure (Smith).

I am pretty sure the man Frank Wright and Tatum saw--Frank Wright describing a man with no gun in hand who looked like he was just standing and looking around--had to have been Smith (unless it was Burt, but the testimonies agree better with Smith). 

What do you think Bill, does that make sense?

Frank Wright said he wasn't but two steps from his front door.  He said he heard the shots and went out the door.  Your scenario has the car (that Wright said he saw parked near the patrol car) belonging to Jimmy Burt.  If your scenario were true, Wright would have been outside looking west towards Tippit's patrol car in time to see Burt's car racing toward the same parked patrol car.

 

However, Wright's scenario has the car already parked and the man (who would moments later get into the car) already out of the car standing over the body.

 

[Bill Brown]

20 minutes ago, Greg Doudna said:

It was all a witness that he saw, after Tatum stopped his car after the shots and looked back. I am suggesting after Tatum stopped his car and looked back he saw William Smith, not the killer. The killer was already gone by the time Tatum looked back.

Bill you raise a good point that caused me a lot of thought but I believe this objection is in the end insubstantial. Let us accept that Smith and Burt are at that corner house, the three-fourths of a block east. Burt's car is parked on Denver facing south. According to Burt, as soon as they heard two shots they raced to the car before the next four (according to Burt) shots had happened. Burt turns the ignition and drives the car, immediate right on Tenth, then x hundreds of yards to pull up to a rapid halt in front of the Tippit cruiser. The positioning of Burt's car--facing west on the south side of Tenth, opposite direction--indicates both that the Burt car arrived after the Tippit cruiser is there and that the stop was sudden. Both exit the Burt car immediately, and according to Burt, he saw the killer just before he went around south on Patton. 

The question is how much time was there between the second shot and when the killer turned that corner on Patton (if Burt's claim is correct). I have tried to mentally imagine how long it would feasibly take for Smith and Burt to get from point A to point B under these conditions, and I come up with possibly as little as 60 seconds. On the killer's end, from shot #2 to shot #5 including moving to proximity to Tippit for a coup de grace in the head, then the walking (not running) that Benavides observed if the killer after Benavides came up from his ducking), then the killer on the sidewalk of Tenth headed west observed fumbling with the gun with both hands, and Benavides observing him pause slightly as the killer tosses out one shell hull, then takes a few steps and tosses out a second shell hull, before changing pace only then into a slow trot as he heads around on to Patton. Maybe ca. 75 seconds for all that (including that coup de grace shot into the temple, which must be accounted for from the autopsy. 

Remember Benavides heard three shots, looked up, saw Tippit falling (no mention of the killer standing next to Tippit). Tippit is not upright after the third shot. The only way the killer can get a line of fire to Tippit after shot #3 is go around the front of the car and shoot him while he is on the ground, and the shot in the temple when Tippit is on the ground. I think Benavides never saw that because, scared to death, he had ducked down again. When he looked up again now the shooting is over and he sees the killer just as he has turned and is walking back to the sidewalk. This would account for the autopsy findings of the bullets, accounts for how the killer can hit a prone Tippit at all after shot #3, and accounts for why Benavides did not witness it (he was ducked down in his cab again; also did not hear any shots #4 or #5 either, though they happened). 

Now on Tatum. Tatum hears what he says were three shots, in his various accounts he says, could be two, could be four, but anyway, he hears those shots as he is entering or going through the intersection of Tenth and Patton. Now he possibly could have pulled over, come to a complete stop, and turned around for his good look very quickly, but to go through the intersection and park at the side and come safely to a full stop before turning around could be ca. 60 seconds or even more, it is not certain. When he does look back, that is when he sees Smith running around the back of the cruiser (and after the killer has gone south on Patton).

As for Frank Wright, it must be supposed he did not go out the front door within seconds as his account suggests but must have gotten out the door, come down the steps of his porch (I assume), went out a little into his front yard to get a good look, and looked, and it must be assumed that took perhaps ca. 60 seconds before he saw the man standing (identified here as William Smith on the basis of the car Frank Wright saw him leave the scene in). Wright also might have seen the prone Tippit some indeterminate small space of time before seeing the standing figure (Smith).

I am pretty sure the man Frank Wright and Tatum saw--Frank Wright describing a man with no gun in hand who looked like he was just standing and looking around--had to have been Smith (unless it was Burt, but the testimonies agree better with Smith). 

What do you think Bill, does that make sense?

"As for Frank Wright, it must be supposed he did not go out the front door within seconds as his account suggests but must have gotten out the door, come down the steps of his porch (I assume), went out a little into his front yard to get a good look, and looked, and it must be assumed that took perhaps ca. 60 seconds before he saw the man standing (identified here as William Smith on the basis of the car Frank Wright saw him leave the scene in). Wright also might have seen the prone Tippit some indeterminate small space of time before seeing the standing figure (Smith)."

 

Greg, you're trying so hard to create a narrative that you are inventing things which Frank Wright never said.  What he did say though was that he was but two steps from the front door, heard the shots and went out to see what was going on.

 

The only reason "it must be assumed" (that it took Wright perhaps 60 seconds before he saw the man standing over Tippit's body) is if one is going to buy into your scenario.

 

Edited July 30, 2022 by Bill Brown

[Greg Doudna]

29 minutes ago, Bill Brown said:

Greg, you rely heavily on Frank Wright, in trying to advance the idea that Bill Smith is the man seen by Tatum approaching Tippit's body from the back of the patrol car.  

I don't think so. Frank Wright sounds like a perfectly credible witness to me as far as witnesses go--the only reason his testimony has been disregarded is because his claim to see the man driving away in a car has made no sense to anyone. That is not cause for rejecting his testimony, simply reinterpreting the meaning of that testimony.

This to me is almost a no-brainer: the car Frank Wright sees the man go away in is Jimmy Burt's car! That's it. Not too complicated. Who might that be who runs and leaves in Jimmy Burt's car? 

35 minutes ago, Bill Brown said:

You also rely on Myers' claim that in the 2013 version of With Malice, that Bill Smith is seen (in a photo on page 218 of Myers' book) standing with his brother in one of the aftermath photos.

One of the problems for you is that Frank Wright said the man he saw standing over the body was wearing a "long coat".

Bill Smith isn't wearing a long coat.

Wright said (in the Nash and Nash article in 1964):

"The man who was standing in front of him [Tippit] was about medium height. He had on a long coat. It ended just above his hands."

In the photo of Smith at Myers p. 218 Smith looks to me like he is wearing something that goes down below beltline, that would end "just above his hands". Whether that is a shirt (probably) or something other than a shirt, I cannot tell. I don't know how a garment that ends "just above his hands" in length would be called "long"--I have no explanation for that. But Frank Wright clearly said it ended "just above his hands" in length, which I take to be the actual description intended by Wright--and that length agrees, I would say pretty exactly, with the length of whatever Smith is wearing at the Tippit crime scene in the photo. 

Smith as who Frank Wright saw--what not to like about that identification Bill?

[Bill Brown]

12 minutes ago, Greg Doudna said:

I don't think so. Frank Wright sounds like a perfectly credible witness to me as far as witnesses go--the only reason his testimony has been disregarded is because his claim to see the man driving away in a car has made no sense to anyone. That is not cause for rejecting his testimony, simply reinterpreting the meaning of that testimony.

This to me is almost a no-brainer: the car Frank Wright sees the man go away in is Jimmy Burt's car! That's it. Not too complicated. Who might that be who runs and leaves in Jimmy Burt's car? 

Wright said (in the Nash and Nash article in 1964):

"The man who was standing in front of him [Tippit] was about medium height. He had on a long coat. It ended just above his hands."

In the photo of Smith at Myers p. 218 Smith looks to me like he is wearing something that goes down below beltline, that would end "just above his hands". Whether that is a shirt (probably) or something other than a shirt, I cannot tell. I don't know how a garment that ends "just above his hands" in length would be called "long"--I have no explanation for that. But Frank Wright clearly said it ended "just above his hands" in length, which I take to be the actual description intended by Wright--and that length agrees, I would say pretty exactly, with the length of whatever Smith is wearing at the Tippit crime scene in the photo. 

Smith as who Frank Wright saw--what not to like about that identification Bill?

"This to me is almost a no-brainer: the car Frank Wright sees the man go away in is Jimmy Burt's car! That's it. Not too complicated."

 

Greg, Jimmy Burt and Bill Smith went off in search of the killer on foot.

 

[Greg Doudna]

11 minutes ago, Bill Brown said:

Frank Wright said he wasn't but two steps from his front door.  He said he heard the shots and went out the door.  Your scenario has the car (that Wright said he saw parked near the patrol car) belonging to Jimmy Burt.  If your scenario were true, Wright would have been outside looking west towards Tippit's patrol car in time to see Burt's car racing toward the same parked patrol car.

However, Wright's scenario has the car already parked and the man (who would moments later get into the car) already out of the car standing over the body.

It must be that Frank Wright got out to his front yard about ca. 60 seconds after the time of shot #2, time enough for Jimmy Burt to have gotten his car there by the time Frank Wright is in his front yard to look.

Wasn't Frank Wright an older man? He, peacefully watching TV, and his wife hear what sound like shots. They listen (he does not jump up and run out the door). They keep listening as shots #2, #3, #4, #5 (or however many) are completed. They wait, listening, maybe asking each other "what is that?" They wait some more for more shots, until enough seconds pass (15 seconds? 30 seconds?) that there are no more shots. Husband and wife look at each other, shocked. Frank to Mrs. Wright: I'm going to go out and see what is going on. Maybe you'd better call the police." (Optional seconds here for confusion or discussion of what number to call and what to say.) Frank (is he heavyset and slow moving? unknown) goes out the door, maybe takes the steps of the porch slowly (have to be careful not to trip), gets out in the middle of the front yard and now sees Tippit's body, and either already there or momentarily soon after Smith standing over him. 

But it was Smith, and it was Burt's car, Bill, unless you are take the position that Frank Wright fabricated the entire thing.

One thing that isn't fabricated about Frank and Mrs. Wright though is that Mrs. Wright did make a phone call, and that phone call is what got patched through by police to the Dudley Funeral Home to dispatch an ambulance, I believe with the Wrights' address information getting mixed up in the written and police radio data causing momentary confusion. 

If Mrs. Wright's phone call was for real, isn't it a bit arbitrary to say her husband, Frank, just imagined out of whole cloth the whole thing he said he saw? 

[Greg Doudna]

1 minute ago, Bill Brown said:

"This to me is almost a no-brainer: the car Frank Wright sees the man go away in is Jimmy Burt's car! That's it. Not too complicated."

Greg, Jimmy Burt and Bill Smith went off in search of the killer on foot.

They also gave conflicting stories. Each of them are not entirely truthful or forthcoming on other details of their stories. Frank Wright is truthful. That is the basic picture here, such that I interpret what Frank Wright saw as sufficient to establish a fact, that the car drove away when he saw it drive away. Frank Wright could have been mistaken about Smith having gotten in the car, or Smith running to catch up with the car or something. Frank Wright may not necessarily have seen perfectly where Smith went. But that the car drove off when Frank Wright saw it drive off is no mistake. I take that to be a fact on the strength of what Frank Wright saw. I suggest reconstructing Jimmy Burt's and Bill Smith's movements around that taken to be a fact, rather than vice versa.