Was the assassination rifle posted to the Neely Street address?

[Gerry Down]

On 9/2/2022 at 5:16 PM, Paul Jolliffe said:

Tom,

Your suspicions about Marina might have merit:

Our "Oswald" himself denied living on Neely. Both Captain Fritz and FBI agent Manning Clements wrote reports about "Oswald's" residences.

Here is Manning Clements:

History Matters Archive - Warren Report, pg (history-matters.com)

No Neely.

Joechim Joesten even quoted Marguerite Oswald as claiming that Marina lived at Neely with another man!

(I'll post the link once I dig it out later this weekend.)

 

 

Who is this Manning Clements guy - is he FBI Dallas or FBI New Orleans?

[Mart Hall]

54 minutes ago, Gerry Down said:

Who is this Manning Clements guy - is he FBI Dallas or FBI New Orleans?

Dallas. https://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/clements/3368/

Credit Phil Hopley via Bart and Prayerman. http://www.prayer-man.com/fbi-ss/manning-clements/

[Gerry Down]

41 minutes ago, Mart Hall said:

Dallas. https://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/clements/3368/

Credit Phil Hopley via Bart and Prayerman. http://www.prayer-man.com/fbi-ss/manning-clements/

Thanks. The reason I ask was because he and DeBrueys interviewed Al Bogard, the car dealership guy LHO allegedly went to, on Nov 23^rd 1963 in Dallas. I was wondering why he and DeBrueys were working together in this regard.

It also seems odd that Hosty was told after the first interview at about 3pm on Nov 22nd to stop assisting with the DPD investigation yet here we have Manning Clements stepping in after this later on the evening of Nov 22nd and asking LHO questions. Apparently it was ok for Clements to ask LHO questions but not Hosty. Odd. 

Here is Hosty saying he was told after the first interview to stop talking to LHO:

Video (2 hours 20 minutes in): 

 

Some sections from Hostys book "Assignment Oswald":

This is what happened at the FBI office just shortly after LHO was arrested and identified:

Shanklin was quiet for a few minutes, listening to the person on the other end. Then Shanklin put his hand over the phone and said, “I got Belmont on the phone. He wants you, Hosty, to get down to the police department and take part in the interrogation of Oswald. Also, Belmont wants you to cooperate fully with the police and give them any information we have on Oswald. Get going. Now.” Since Alan Belmont was the third in command of the Bureau, this was a significant order. I left Shanklin’s office, and as I headed for the door to leave I heard Howe on another phone with Agent Dick Harrison, who was at the police station: “Harrison, tell Assistant Police Chief Stevenson that Hosty is on his way, that he’s our agent on the Oswald file. He’s going to help in the interrogation of Oswald.”

And here is what happened before LHO returned from the lineup:

TIME: 4:25 P.M. Harlan Brown, a senior agent in my squad, hurried up to me in the hallway. “Hosty! Come here. You are not to go back in on the interrogation of Oswald, and you are not to provide any information we have about Oswald to the police. Do you understand?” I was dumbfounded, but I said yes, I understood. This was in direct contradiction to what Alan Belmont, Hoover’s senior assistant, had ordered. But Brown was dead serious and was clutching my elbow tightly. It became clear to me that Belmont’s order had been countermanded, and that probably meant that either the Old Man — Hoover—had taken over control of the investigation, or that the White House had. I shuddered at the thought of Hoover personally supervising my work here in Dallas.

 

 

[David Josephs]

On 8/31/2022 at 7:10 PM, Jean Paul Ceulemans said:

About the PO-box, I'm running in circles like a dog chasing his tail...

LHO usually used a fake address on the section 3 (special deliveries) for his Postbox-applications I believe ? 

For all I know that wouldn't be a problem (he did not have any special deliveries... ?).

Except for the time when he was alledgedly (I'm taking a stand) expecting his weapons to arrive. 

3/11 Dorothea Myers informs Hosty about Neely (so did JLH go to the postoffice to inform them on Neely ?)

3/12 order of the guns (coincidently 1 day after Dorothea...)

No we are still not sure because of the missing application

And what would the postoffice do when a special delivery comes in, but the sect 3 mentions a fake address, what would happen :

- back to sender ? 

- card in the PO box and package in the non-deliverable section where he can get it ?

- correct the address if they had one ?

Now linking to the mystery package, was Nassaustr one of LHO's fake adresses he had used in an PO box applic. sect. 3 ?
Well,  how did Dorothea know.... I see no other option but Oswald having told the Postoffice (seen what he was expecting to arrive) an adj. the applic.

And God knows on what PO box applic. perhaps Nassaustr was mentioned, do we even know if we have all of his PO boxes.

UNLESS he knew what the post-office would do in case of a fake adress for spec.deliveries with a PO-box, 

and as such knew he could pick it up where the Postoffice told him it would end up (the railway station or whatever...)

 

Anyway, way too much assumptions without certain documents that are still lost or gone.   But I'm affraid Dorothea somehow  left nothing behind on paper (except Hosty taking notes... bases on reality or not...), there is something strange about that contact, just one day before the 3/12.   If Oswald wasn't doing it, well somebody did it for him (and even before him one could say....), and Hosty would have had a major part in it (if so)

 

https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/the-evidence-is-the-conspiracy-the-carbine-on-the-6th-floor

A very detailed presentation I did in Dallas a few years back (2019) about the rifle with a nice section on what happens at the post office...

(First off, if you actually believe the evidence that suggests OSWALD ordered, paid for, was shipped, rec'd, and/or acquired "that" rifle you probably wont be happy with the article... one of the concrete facts of the case is that Oswald never had anything to do with "that" rifle... or the rifle which becomes a WCR exhibit)

I hope the ppt slides are worthwhile for those who take the time...  the notes for each slide is printed underneath them.

I do have a question as well...  what do you suppose happened to the 5 foot cardboard shipping container labeled FIREARMS which would have been a decent place to house the weapon as well as move it from Neely to French street to Magazine to Irving and then to the TSBD ?  

[David Josephs]

BTW, it was FBI Agent ODUM who drives Lt. DAY and the Rifle Day has back to the DPD.

Then there is NAT PINKSTON... rarely mentioned and hardly known, he claims to have been the source of information related to finding where the rifle originated... on the 22nd.

FWIW

Edited November 13, 2022 by David Josephs

[Guest]

Thanks, I did find your interesting article while going throught K and K a few weeks ago.

 

[Mart Hall]

22 hours ago, Gerry Down said:

Thanks. The reason I ask was because he and DeBrueys interviewed Al Bogard, the car dealership guy LHO allegedly went to, on Nov 23^rd 1963 in Dallas. I was wondering why he and DeBrueys were working together in this regard.

It also seems odd that Hosty was told after the first interview at about 3pm on Nov 22nd to stop assisting with the DPD investigation yet here we have Manning Clements stepping in after this later on the evening of Nov 22nd and asking LHO questions. Apparently it was ok for Clements to ask LHO questions but not Hosty. Odd. 

Here is Hosty saying he was told after the first interview to stop talking to LHO:

Video (2 hours 20 minutes in): 

 

Some sections from Hostys book "Assignment Oswald":

This is what happened at the FBI office just shortly after LHO was arrested and identified:

Shanklin was quiet for a few minutes, listening to the person on the other end. Then Shanklin put his hand over the phone and said, “I got Belmont on the phone. He wants you, Hosty, to get down to the police department and take part in the interrogation of Oswald. Also, Belmont wants you to cooperate fully with the police and give them any information we have on Oswald. Get going. Now.” Since Alan Belmont was the third in command of the Bureau, this was a significant order. I left Shanklin’s office, and as I headed for the door to leave I heard Howe on another phone with Agent Dick Harrison, who was at the police station: “Harrison, tell Assistant Police Chief Stevenson that Hosty is on his way, that he’s our agent on the Oswald file. He’s going to help in the interrogation of Oswald.”

And here is what happened before LHO returned from the lineup:

TIME: 4:25 P.M. Harlan Brown, a senior agent in my squad, hurried up to me in the hallway. “Hosty! Come here. You are not to go back in on the interrogation of Oswald, and you are not to provide any information we have about Oswald to the police. Do you understand?” I was dumbfounded, but I said yes, I understood. This was in direct contradiction to what Alan Belmont, Hoover’s senior assistant, had ordered. But Brown was dead serious and was clutching my elbow tightly. It became clear to me that Belmont’s order had been countermanded, and that probably meant that either the Old Man — Hoover—had taken over control of the investigation, or that the White House had. I shuddered at the thought of Hoover personally supervising my work here in Dallas.

 

 

Your post got me thinking (thank you!). I remember Malcolm saying recently how slippery WDB was and going through his Church or HSCA testimony where he barely gave a straight answer and the interviewee never followed up or challenged his evasiveness. 

I've made a mental note for myself, he clearly looks like he was brought in to put an end to any meaningful investigation of Oswald in Dallas and he would have been very well motivated to do that (e.g. the Pena testimony). Clements has a longer service record than Hosty. When Hoover or the White House decided to head off matters then they would have ensured that the Dallas FBI investigator partnering WDB was onside or at least wasn't going to cause problems. 

 

Edit - 10 minutes later, I see that Clements was closely involved with interviewing and investigating Ruby. Interesting.

 

Edited November 13, 2022 by Mart Hall

[Gerry Down]

54 minutes ago, Mart Hall said:

Your post got me thinking (thank you!). I remember Malcolm saying recently how slippery WDB was and going through his Church or HSCA testimony where he barely gave a straight answer and the interviewee never followed up or challenged his evasiveness. 

I've made a mental note for myself, he clearly looks like he was brought in to put an end to any meaningful investigation of Oswald in Dallas and he would have been very well motivated to do that (e.g. the Pena testimony). Clements has a longer service record than Hosty. When Hoover or the White House decided to head off matters then they would have ensured that the Dallas FBI investigator partnering WDB was onside or at least wasn't going to cause problems. 

I feel certain I've seen Manning Clements name appear before but I'm going to have a good look at what's known about him.

I've got a feeling Manning Clements was unaware that Oswald was an FBI informant in New Orleans with DeBrueys. A more likely possibility is that Gordan Shanklin decided he could not afford to have Hosty in on any more interviews in case Oswald mentioned the threatening note he had given only about 10 days previously. So it would have been wiser to bring in an unknown FBI agent such as Manning Clements to continue the questioning Hosty should have been doing. 

[David Josephs]

4 hours ago, Jean Paul Ceulemans said:

Thanks, I did find your interesting article while going throught K and K a few weeks ago.

 

Thanks Jean...  glad you got something out of it...