How did Oswald know that no-one was in the Domino Room in the minutes before the Motorcade passed?

[Tony Krome]

During Oswald's first interview, the obvious questions were asked, like where were you?, What were you doing? No need to repeat here what was reported.

During the lunch period (12:00 to 12:45) there was a good chance that someone was sitting in the 1st floor lunchroom that wasn't interested in being outside waiting for the motorcade that could destroy Oswald's claims.

Dougherty was one such person. He was in the Domino Room, wasn't interested in the motorcade, and would have been there if he hadn't decided to go back to work early.

Then we have Oswald claiming to see Jarman at the time Jarman himself said he was entering the rear door in the minutes before the motorcade.

 

[Joe Bauer]

True.

[Ron Ege]

17 hours ago, Tony Krome said:

During Oswald's first interview, the obvious questions were asked, like where were you?, What were you doing? No need to repeat here what was reported.

During the lunch period (12:00 to 12:45) there was a good chance that someone was sitting in the 1st floor lunchroom that wasn't interested in being outside waiting for the motorcade that could destroy Oswald's claims.

Dougherty was one such person. He was in the Domino Room, wasn't interested in the motorcade, and would have been there if he hadn't decided to go back to work early.

Then we have Oswald claiming to see Jarman at the time Jarman himself said he was entering the rear door in the minutes before the motorcade.

 

Gil Jesus did a nice job (Evidence that Oswald was on the first floor), pinpointing LHO's whereabouts, just prior to the assassination.

Was Lee Harvey Oswald Really Guilty (gil-jesus.com)

And didn't LHO even say that he saw two Negroes when he was in/near Domino room, one of whose names he didn't know and whose admissions as to where they were at the time, tracked with what Oswald said?

Cool assassin, that Ozzie.  Waits until nearly the last minute before he skedaddles up to the sixth floor - which had to be much after witnesses would eventually report seeing someone in the "sniper's lair".  Meanwhile, we have Gil's multiple witnesses placing him on the first floor.

[Tony Krome]

47 minutes ago, Ron Ege said:

Gil Jesus did a nice job (Evidence that Oswald was on the first floor), pinpointing LHO's whereabouts, just prior to the assassination.

Was Lee Harvey Oswald Really Guilty (gil-jesus.com)

And didn't LHO even say that he saw two Negroes when he was in/near Domino room, one of whose names he didn't know and whose admissions as to where they were at the time, tracked with what Oswald said?

Cool assassin, that Ozzie.  Waits until nearly the last minute before he skedaddles up to the sixth floor - which had to be much after witnesses would eventually report seeing someone in the "sniper's lair".  Meanwhile, we have Gil's multiple witnesses placing him on the first floor.

I put this thread up to see if the Oswald lynch Mob could explain how Oswald knew there was no-one in the Domino Room that could challenge his alibi.

So far nothing from that quarter.

And yes, I mentioned Jarman, he was one of the persons Oswald said he saw from the Domino Room.

 

[Pat Speer]

5 minutes ago, Tony Krome said:

I put this thread up to see if the Oswald lynch Mob could explain how Oswald knew there was no-one in the Domino Room that could challenge his alibi.

So far nothing from that quarter.

And yes, I mentioned Jarman, he was one of the persons Oswald said he saw from the Domino Room.

 

Eddie Piper actually confirmed his alibi--that he came down and went to the Domino Room. Piper said he saw him around noon, when he, Piper, put his sandwich on the radiator. Piper said Oswald then said something about going up or out. As to Oswald's exact whereabouts at 12:30, that's not exactly clear. Dougherty came down a bit after Oswald and said he saw Oswald in the second floor lunch room, where Carolyn Arnold would later say she saw Oswald and where Oswald was spotted by Baker and Truly at 12:32 or so. So it seems possible Oswald went up to the break room around 12:00 and never came back. 

But we can suspect he did. He said he saw Jarman and Norman walk by the Domino Room, and they testified to doing just that...around 12:15, if I recall. Well, this suggests that Oswald came down around 11:55, got to the Domino Room after everyone else (except perhaps Harold Norman) had left, sat around for a minute until Piper came in, then went up to get a Coke. He then sat around in that lunch room for a few minutes, at which time he was spotted by Dougherty and then Arnold. He then went back downstairs and perhaps went outside for a minute or two before going back to the Domino Room, where he saw Jarman and Norman pass. A few minutes later, the shots rang out. But Oswald didn't hear them, and he went up to get another Coke. Where he was confronted by Baker and Truly. 

Now...if this is so... It seems possible this was no accident... It seems possible Oswald was on the lookout for someone at the back of the building. He could see anyone come in the back door from the Domino Room, and he could see anyone go up from the lunch room. 

Well, here's a fresh thought. Perhaps Oswald had been warned that something was gonna happen, and was trying to stop it. But he messed up because the shooter had spent the night in the building, hiding up on the seventh floor. 

 

[Tony Krome]

27 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

Well, here's a fresh thought. Perhaps Oswald had been warned that something was gonna happen, and was trying to stop it.

At least we know Oswald was vigilant as to who was accessing the rear loading dock door in the minutes before the motorcade passed. 

[Tony Krome]

Moving on ...

At the time Oswald was watching Jarman, circa 12:25, the motorcade was due in the Plaza. It was reported that Oswald used the word "commotion" in Fritz's office, and that prompted Oswald to move "downstairs" towards that commotion, and that he was confronted by his "superintendent" and a "police officer".

The final edition (evening of the 22nd) of The Dallas Times Herald has Campbell stating Oswald was seen on the "ground floor" in a "small storage room" immediately after the shooting. The storage room is right by the front doors. The next day. the Dallas Morning News has an "Officer, gun drawn" confronting Oswald in a "storage room". 

Does this indicate that Oswald moved from the Domino Room to the 2nd floor, then went "downstairs" to be confronted by Baker?

Frazier does not have Baker hurrying past his position. Frazier stated that he remained where he was, and did not move to avoid attention to himself. With that mindset, of course he would recall the law racing to and past his position.

Frazier remained at his position for "minutes" before moving inside. He was in the basement by 12:35 where he checked his watch which indicated he has but 10 minutes left to eat his lunch before resuming work at 12:45.

Oswald could be right by the front doors watching part of the parade and the commotion before Baker entered.

 

 

 

[Ron Ege]

19 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

Eddie Piper actually confirmed his alibi--that he came down and went to the Domino Room. Piper said he saw him around noon, when he, Piper, put his sandwich on the radiator. Piper said Oswald then said something about going up or out. As to Oswald's exact whereabouts at 12:30, that's not exactly clear. Dougherty came down a bit after Oswald and said he saw Oswald in the second floor lunch room, where Carolyn Arnold would later say she saw Oswald and where Oswald was spotted by Baker and Truly at 12:32 or so. So it seems possible Oswald went up to the break room around 12:00 and never came back. 

But we can suspect he did. He said he saw Jarman and Norman walk by the Domino Room, and they testified to doing just that...around 12:15, if I recall. Well, this suggests that Oswald came down around 11:55, got to the Domino Room after everyone else (except perhaps Harold Norman) had left, sat around for a minute until Piper came in, then went up to get a Coke. He then sat around in that lunch room for a few minutes, at which time he was spotted by Dougherty and then Arnold. He then went back downstairs and perhaps went outside for a minute or two before going back to the Domino Room, where he saw Jarman and Norman pass. A few minutes later, the shots rang out. But Oswald didn't hear them, and he went up to get another Coke. Where he was confronted by Baker and Truly. 

Now...if this is so... It seems possible this was no accident... It seems possible Oswald was on the lookout for someone at the back of the building. He could see anyone come in the back door from the Domino Room, and he could see anyone go up from the lunch room. 

Well, here's a fresh thought. Perhaps Oswald had been warned that something was gonna happen, and was trying to stop it. But he messed up because the shooter had spent the night in the building, hiding up on the seventh floor. 

 

Pat, 

Your last thought ". . . Perhaps Oswald had been warned that something was gonna happen . . . "

Does that take us back to perhaps, as has been theorized, Oswald being set up as a part of a false flag operation - and what you have hypothesized was perhaps his perplexed behavior when he began to realize that there was more going on, whatever he had been told (that "need to know" thing), than he was led to believe?

LHO's behavior upon leaving the TSBD and what has been pieced together between then and his arrest at the Texas Theatre bespeaks of him purposely driven by the then extant circumstances, as he viewed them to be, to adopt a prearranged contingency plan - only to eventually determine (his arrest) that he'd "been had".

Hence, "I'm just a patsy."

IMHO, at the tender age of 24, demonstrably, especially considering being charged with the shooting of a police officer and the POTUS, his overall behavior, from the arrest until he was gunned down, rivaled that of "007's" calm, cool, and collectiveness - when Bond found himself suddenly caught up in yet another of his not necessarily expected jams". 

[Pat Speer]

1 hour ago, Ron Ege said:

Pat, 

Your last thought ". . . Perhaps Oswald had been warned that something was gonna happen . . . "

Does that take us back to perhaps, as has been theorized, Oswald being set up as a part of a false flag operation - and what you have hypothesized was perhaps his perplexed behavior when he began to realize that there was more going on, whatever he had been told (that "need to know" thing), than he was led to believe?

LHO's behavior upon leaving the TSBD and what has been pieced together between then and his arrest at the Texas Theatre bespeaks of him purposely driven by the then extant circumstances, as he viewed them to be, to adopt a prearranged contingency plan - only to eventually determine (his arrest) that he'd "been had".

Hence, "I'm just a patsy."

IMHO, at the tender age of 24, demonstrably, especially considering being charged with the shooting of a police officer and the POTUS, his overall behavior, from the arrest until he was gunned down, rivaled that of "007's" calm, cool, and collectiveness - when Bond found himself suddenly caught up in yet another of his not necessarily expected jams". 

Will Fritz was supposedly a master interrogator. And yet he would later comment about how cool Oswald seemed to be, and that this made him suspect Oswald had been trained on how to handle interrogation. I don't normally put too much stock on what Fritz said or didn't say, but I find this quite interesting.

[Ron Ege]

20 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

Will Fritz was supposedly a master interrogator. And yet he would later comment about how cool Oswald seemed to be, and that this made him suspect Oswald had been trained on how to handle interrogation. I don't normally put too much stock on what Fritz said or didn't say, but I find this quite interesting.

I also, and I'll wager others do, also. 

I don't believe Fritz would make the statement, not having thought through the entirety of his interrogation.  Up close and personal, he noted Oswald's "cool".

And based on video evidence of Oswald' demeanor and answers to the questions during the press "barrage" - interested observers would, I believe, agree with Fritz.  Even without all the pretty obvious evidence which we are now aware of - that LHO had quite a few more "intelligence connections" - than the "average bear" - including most ex-military.

[Tony Krome]

On 9/26/2022 at 1:24 PM, Tony Krome said:

The final edition (evening of the 22nd) of The Dallas Times Herald has Campbell stating Oswald was seen on the "ground floor" in a "small storage room" immediately after the shooting. The storage room is right by the front doors. The next day. the Dallas Morning News has an "Officer, gun drawn" confronting Oswald in a "storage room". 

 

The earliest newspaper reports match what Harry Holmes heard from Oswald himself;

 

Mr. BELIN. By the way, where did this policeman stop him when he was coming down the stairs at the Book Depository on the day of the shooting?

Mr. HOLMES. He said it was in the vestibule.
Mr. BELIN. He said he was in the vestibule?
Mr. HOLMES. Or approaching the door to the vestibule. He was just coming, apparently, and I have never been in there myself. Apparently there is two sets of doors, and he had come out to this front part.
Mr. BELIN. Did he state it was on what floor?
Mr. HOLMES. First floor. The front entrance to the first floor.

 

[Pat Speer]

1 hour ago, Tony Krome said:

 

The earliest newspaper reports match what Harry Holmes heard from Oswald himself;

 

Mr. BELIN. By the way, where did this policeman stop him when he was coming down the stairs at the Book Depository on the day of the shooting?

Mr. HOLMES. He said it was in the vestibule.
Mr. BELIN. He said he was in the vestibule?
Mr. HOLMES. Or approaching the door to the vestibule. He was just coming, apparently, and I have never been in there myself. Apparently there is two sets of doors, and he had come out to this front part.
Mr. BELIN. Did he state it was on what floor?
Mr. HOLMES. First floor. The front entrance to the first floor.

 

Holmes was talking out of his butt. His report--which he failed to create till weeks after the assassination--said Oswald told him he was upstairs when the shots were fired and that he came down to see what all the commotion was all about. Bugliosi pretended that this weeks later report proved Oswald had admitted being upstairs when the shots were fired. Uhh, no...

It seems to me that Holmes spent the bulk of his time with Oswald asking about P.O. Boxes, etc. He wasn't tasked with verifying or disproving Oswald's location at the time of the shooting--that was Fritz's job. When later asked about the details of what Oswald said, moreover, he didn't want to admit he didn't remember what Oswald said beyond his responses regarding the P.O. Boxes. So he made stuff up... and said what he thought others had told him Oswald said. 

[Tony Krome]

46 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

Holmes was talking out of his butt. His report--which he failed to create till weeks after the assassination--said Oswald told him he was upstairs when the shots were fired and that he came down to see what all the commotion was all about. Bugliosi pretended that this weeks later report proved Oswald had admitted being upstairs when the shots were fired. Uhh, no...

It seems to me that Holmes spent the bulk of his time with Oswald asking about P.O. Boxes, etc. He wasn't tasked with verifying or disproving Oswald's location at the time of the shooting--that was Fritz's job. When later asked about the details of what Oswald said, moreover, he didn't want to admit he didn't remember what Oswald said beyond his responses regarding the P.O. Boxes. So he made stuff up... and said what he thought others had told him Oswald said. 

Regardless, that's what he told the WC, and it just so happens to match what Campbell reportedly said. There was no way a reporter knew that a "storage room" existed on the first floor, it had to come from Campbell as indicated.

As far as coming "downstairs", there is the possibility that Oswald left the Domino Room right after he saw Jarman, and took the rear stairs to the 2nd floor. The "commotion" may have been heard from the 2nd floor.

Molina was right by Frazier and he did not see a white helmeted police officer push past his position either. I personally think that Darnell shows Baker running to the corner to check on the fire escape, then he later backtracked.

 

[Ron Ege]

On 9/28/2022 at 5:12 AM, Tony Krome said:

Regardless, that's what he told the WC, and it just so happens to match what Campbell reportedly said. There was no way a reporter knew that a "storage room" existed on the first floor, it had to come from Campbell as indicated.

As far as coming "downstairs", there is the possibility that Oswald left the Domino Room right after he saw Jarman, and took the rear stairs to the 2nd floor. The "commotion" may have been heard from the 2nd floor.

Molina was right by Frazier and he did not see a white helmeted police officer push past his position either. I personally think that Darnell shows Baker running to the corner to check on the fire escape, then he later backtracked.

 

Tony, exactly.

On Aug. 8, 2022, in the "Evidence Oswald was on the on the first floor before and after the shooting" thread, Gil Jesus aptly describes how Oswald could not have been on the second floor, let alone the sixth floor.

There, Gil presented the fact that Truly told Fritz that almost immediately after the shooting, that he, Truly, entered the TSBD with Baker, seeing Oswald "near the first-floor storage room."

Next, Campbell, when asked about his actions immediately after the shots, reported that when he entered, confirming Truly, that was where he, Campbell, saw Oswald.

Then, you adroitly point out that the reporter uses the term "storage room" - when he described his actions, looking for the availability of a phone on the TSBD first floor.

After that, did not Oswald say that he directed someone to a phone, mistakenly, if memory serves, believing it was someone in authority?

Even if, as you suspect, Baker took a quick look at the fire escape before entering the TSBD with Truly, Oswald does not have enough time to rush down from the sixth floor - sight unseen/unheard by anyone.  And one has to completely discount Truly's first day account, in order to believe his later "story'.

As Gil laid out, NO second-floor encounter.

Lastly:

Chief Curry, on Nov. 23, 1963:

"I don't know whether it would be enough to convict him or not. If we can put his prints on the rifle,

that would certainly connect him with the rifle." The FBI evidently put his prints

on the rifle the next day, after his death, in the Miller Funeral Home in Fort Worth"

Chief Curry - Nov. '69:

 "No one has ever been able to put him [Oswald] in the Texas School Book Depository with a rifle in his hand." 

"Wd don't have any proof that Oswald fired the rifle, AND NEVER DID."

"Case Closed"?  Don't think so.

 

 

 

[Tony Krome]

On 9/29/2022 at 11:07 PM, Ron Ege said:

Even if, as you suspect, Baker took a quick look at the fire escape before entering the TSBD

Check Baker's testimony. His first thought was that he suspected the shots came from the Dal-Tex building or the TSBD.

It makes perfect sense that after dismounting his bike, he ran to a position between both buildings;

Mr. BAKER - Well, to me, it sounded high and I immediately kind of looked up, and I had a feeling that it came from the building, either right in front of me or of the one across to the right of it.
Mr. BELIN - What would the building right in front of you be?
Mr. BAKER - It would be this Book Depository Building.
Mr. BELIN - That would be the building located on what corner of Houston and Elm?
Mr. BAKER - That would be the northwest corner.
Mr. BELIN - All right. And you thought it was either from that building or the building located where?
Mr. BAKER - On the northeast corner.

He checks the rooftops, the fire escape, then returns to enter the front doors of the TSBD after Frazier and Molina have moved on.