Larry Hancock Interview (Out Of The Blank Ep. 1319)

[Guest]

To and from, those countries, like the mail to and from Priscilla Johnson (McMillan) when she was in Moscow :

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=59392#relPageId=3

 

 

 

[Gerry Down]

Here is the CIAs HTLINGUAL file on Oswald for anyone interested:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=55322&utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email#relPageId=1&search=papich_AND+OSWALD

I presume the FBIs version of this file would be the same. In other words whatever mail the CIA saw, the FBI also saw.

I'm a bit weak on the whole mail opening area. I had assumed though that domestic mail was also being monitored to and from high interest targets such as the CPUSA, the Militant and Worker newpapers etc. .  

Edited January 21, 2023 by Gerry Down

[Guest]

Indeed, we should be talking about the FBI mail intercept in this case.

 

From a 1975 article somehwere :

He said that the openings, known within the F.B.I. as “Zcovers,” were accomplished without the authority of judicial search warrants, and were thus a violation of Federal statutes prohibiting obstruction of the mails. He added that the openings had been made with the assistance of “certain officials of the Post Office [who] knew what the F.B.I. was doing.”

Asked about the source's assertions, an F.B.I. spokesman issued the following statement:

“In connection with its foreign counterintelligence responsibilities, the F.B.I. did engage in opening of mail until 1966, when former Director J. Edgar Hoover ordered the activity to be discontinued.

[Guest]

I don't really see what the inside-man's information would have to do with electronic surveillance ?

In one of the doc's it said they would contact him, etc

I am not saying it's impossible, I just don't get it in the case of Vincent (and the file/No/loc)

Unless they had a tap on his line.... That way, the stuff he handed as an informant could have been kept in his tapping file ? As such the * could indicate his phone was tapped and indicate an allocation.  

Don't know, just guessing really...   

We should ask Newman...

 

 

 

 

Edited January 21, 2023 by Jean Paul Ceulemans

[Larry Hancock]

Gerry, I think that is a great question and encourage a search for any 1963 examples of FBI mail intercepts on Oswald...to FPCC, SWP, CPUSA, Russian embassy.  It would be great to see that in one place, don't know if Newman did that in his early book or not?  At the moment I am sorely confused by what the FBi presented as correspondence obtained on Oswald pre vs. post assassination - and who it was distributed to inside the FBI. 

That would help clear up several questions and I don't know that anyone has done that all in one place up to now. A pre-assassination mail intercept chronology would be really helpful.

[Gerry Down]

27 minutes ago, Larry Hancock said:

Gerry, I think that is a great question and encourage a search for any 1963 examples of FBI mail intercepts on Oswald...to FPCC, SWP, CPUSA, Russian embassy.  It would be great to see that in one place, don't know if Newman did that in his early book or not?  At the moment I am sorely confused by what the FBi presented as correspondence obtained on Oswald pre vs. post assassination - and who it was distributed to inside the FBI. 

That would help clear up several questions and I don't know that anyone has done that all in one place up to now. A pre-assassination mail intercept chronology would be really helpful.

Previously on page one of this thread I had suggested that the CIA had got hold of Oswalds Aug 1962 letter to the FPCC (when Richard Gibson was the head of the FPCC) and this was the reason Moore then got in touch with GDM to begin gathering intel on LHO, which GDM did by becoming friends with Oswald the following month in Sept 1963. However from what I understand now, there would appear to be no mechanism in place for the CIA to know that Oswald had written to the FPCC in Aug 1962? If I understand it correctly, at best the FBI might have found out about this letter (through an informant at the FPCC or through Zcovers) but they would not have passed on that info to the CIA? Or would they, seeing how the CIA had an interest in LHO and the FBI were passing on reports to the CIA about LHO (such as his arrest in New Orleans)?

But it would appear that even the FBI did not know that LHO had written to the FPCC in Aug 1962 as the FBI proceeded to close their file on Oswald after this - something they would hardly do if they had known that LHO was in contact with the FPCC. 

The FPCC letter is interpreted by some to be postmarked 25th Aug 1962:

 

[Guest]

Newman (1995) said the FBI read LHO's mail but only in relation to the Moscow Embassy

[Larry Hancock]

Its been bandied about that the FBI had a physical source with access to the FPCC office who made copies of their mailing list and at least some correspondence...I've never seen anything concrete to support that but if all the Oswald correspondence that we often talk about and which is mentioned in FBi post assassination reports (FPCC, CPUSA. SWP) was really collected post-assassination it certainly puts some speculation in a new light.  Relative to that is the fact that post-assassination the FBI appears to have had to confirm that Oswald was actually a subscriber to the Militant and the Worker - suggesting they were not monitoring his domestic mail the way they were his international mail. 

[Gerry Down]

31 minutes ago, Larry Hancock said:

Its been bandied about that the FBI had a physical source with access to the FPCC office who made copies of their mailing list and at least some correspondence...I've never seen anything concrete to support that but if all the Oswald correspondence that we often talk about and which is mentioned in FBi post assassination reports (FPCC, CPUSA. SWP) was really collected post-assassination it certainly puts some speculation in a new light.  Relative to that is the fact that post-assassination the FBI appears to have had to confirm that Oswald was actually a subscriber to the Militant and the Worker - suggesting they were not monitoring his domestic mail the way they were his international mail. 

Two possible reasons why the FBI may have had motive to play dump post-assassination about how much of Oswalds mail they had been reading are as follows:

Reason #1

In March 1963 Oswald wrote to the CPUSA looking to join the communist party. If the FBI had known that LHO was looking to join the communist party, then they should definitely have told the SS in Dallas that Oswald was working on the motorcade route.

 

Reason #2

The Militant newspaper admitted years later that Oswald had sent them a copy of the backyard photo around March or April 1963. If the FBI intercepted this letter, then the FBI would have had a copy of this photo in their files before the JFK assassination. Again, this would have been plenty reason for the FBI to tell the SS that Oswald was on the motorcade route.

If the FBI did know in April 1963 that Oswald was looking to join the CPUSA and had a picture of him holding a rifle in a threatening pose with marxist newspapers, then it would explain an odd incident Anthony Summers reports in his book. He says that when Oswald arrived in New Orleans in April 1963, the FBI were staking out his house and keeping him under surveillance. 

 

Of course this could in part then explain why DeBrueys then took such an interest in Oswald thereafter that summer. 

And I just wonder if the FBI had access to such mail, did they pass it on to the CIA? That's a bit of a leap as such would require the FBI and CIA to lie in unison after the assassination about the mail they had access to.

But a point against the FBI having had access to at least the CPUSA letter above before the assassination is that if they had, they would have known about LHOs PO Box 2915, which apparently they did not because in the hours after the assassination, they seemed to know so little about this box that in the FBIs internal correspondence they think Marguerite Oswald owned this PO Box, which shows a certain level of cluelessness on the part of the FBI in relation to Oswalds mail. 

Edited January 21, 2023 by Gerry Down

[Larry Hancock]

Gerry, could you give us a source or link to the Militant acknowledgement that they had received a copy of the backyard photo....that is a new one to me...

[Guest]

There is a website that mentions this ( https://www.tracesofevil.com/1995/06/the-kennedy-assassination-then-and-now.html ), but the footnote to that statement is not correct (it's a ref to a Wiki page that ref. to the WC report)

 

 

[Gerry Down]

28 minutes ago, Larry Hancock said:

Gerry, could you give us a source or link to the Militant acknowledgement that they had received a copy of the backyard photo....that is a new one to me...

According to Marina Oswald, the backyard photos were created to be submitted to the Socialist Worker’s Party newspaper The Militant:

Mrs. OSWALD. ... it happened just before he went to shoot General Walker. Then, I asked him why he was taking this silly picture and he answered that he simply wanted to send it to the newspaper.

Mr. LIEBELER. The Militant?

Mrs. OSWALD. The Militant.

Mrs. OSWALD. I didn't attach any significance to what he said at the time, but he added, "That maybe some day June will remember me." He must have had something in his mind – some grandiose plans. (WC July 24, 1964)

This appears to be somewhat backed up in "Live By The Sword". Gus Russo interviewed members of "The Militant" for his book. This is mentioned on page 117 of "Live By The Sword", hard back edition (with the endnotes on page 537). 

 

According to Gus Russo, the SWP were appalled on seeing the photo and possibly began to pay more attention to similar mail. But in the summer of 1963 LHO wrote to the SWP (at least on Sept 1st 1963) and i'm not sure did the SWP write back or not, I cant find such a response anywhere. If they did respond back, then that would seem to indicate that they were not at all bothered by LHO and so would weaken the claim in Gus Russos book that they were appalled by LHO before the JFK assassination because of a backyard photo he might have sent them. 

[Guest]

Is that the same Sylvia Weinstein in this list ?

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=2501#relPageId=3&search=sylvia_weinstein

And o/c

http://www.walterlippmann.com/sylvia-weinstein-fightback-intro.html

Edited January 21, 2023 by Jean Paul Ceulemans

[Larry Hancock]

Thanks  Gerry, that is pretty darn interesting....actually it makes a lot of sense.  And it surely would be a reason for the FBI to either cover up having been collecting FPCC correspondence or for not acting on having that information...

[Gerry Down]

29 minutes ago, Larry Hancock said:

Thanks  Gerry, that is pretty darn interesting....actually it makes a lot of sense.  And it surely would be a reason for the FBI to either cover up having been collecting FPCC correspondence or for not acting on having that information...

Hypothetically speaking, if the FBI had the mail correspondence of LHO with the FPCC, SWP or CPUSA would the FBI have passed this on to the CIA as part of it's normal correspondence with the CIA regarding LHO before the assassination (such as like how the FBI informed the CIA about LHOs arrest in New Orleans)? Or would the mail intercept be such a sensitive operation for the FBI that they would not share this data with the CIA?