[SOLVED] Some JFK books might contain an incorrect citation on Parkland doctor William Kemp Clark - NEED PICS OF NEW YORK TIMES 11/24/1963

[Micah Mileto]

As we know from the testimony of Parkland doctors Malcolm Perry and William Kemp Clark, there were press conferences at Parkland every day for a few days after the assassination, in addition to the infamous conference on the day. Clark participated in each of these conferences. There are known transcript of the later-day conferences, and news reporting was sparse for some reason. It seems to me that either quotes from the first conference are sometimes wrongly attributed to the later conferences, or for some reason the Parkland doctors used almost identical language in each of their interactions with journalist.

 

In the 2011 ebook edition of the 1991 book Act of Treason by Mark North, we find this reference:

 

New York Times: “Dr. Kemp Clark . . . chief of neurology at Parkland Hospital . . . said that there were two wounds, a traumatic wound in the back of the head and a small entrance wound below the Adam’s apple. . . . The head wound could have been caused by an emerging bullet, Dr. Clark said, or it could have been a tangential wound. He said that the wound was ‘large with a considerable loss of tissue.’”117 [...]

 

Corresponding to that citation, we find:

 

117 New York Times, 11/24/63, p. 2

 

Likewise, in Vince Palamara's 2015 book From Parkland to Bethesda, we find:

New York Times, 11/24/63---“Dr. Kemp Clark…said that there were two wounds, a traumatic wound in the back of the head and a small entrance wound below the Adam’s apple…He said the [head] wound was ‘large with a considerable loss of tissue’” [...]

 

Here is page 2 of a copy of the 11/24/1963 New York Times:

 

https://i.imgur.com/8cNzBKf.png

 

https://i.imgur.com/sj5h1xw.png

 

The quote in question does not appear. The only two things close are both on page 5. Here they are:

 

https://i.imgur.com/40EWqQo.png

 

https://i.imgur.com/Pi1sfmg.png

 

https://i.imgur.com/nZQTilW.png

 

I also tried searching the keywords on Google, jfk.hood.edu, and newspapers.com, and I cannot find where this exact phrasing was used. So it would seem like the book "Act of Treason" had a wrong reference which was spread.

Edited August 9, 2023 by Micah Mileto

[Micah Mileto]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/153665586635?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110013%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIMRXI%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20201210111452%26meid%3De0be2e0e86c04d32b78819c730f2a6d7%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D7%26sd%3D224549621259%26itm%3D153665586635%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DPromotedRVI&_trksid=p2047675.c101196.m2219&amdata=cksum%3A153665586635e0be2e0e86c04d32b78819c730f2a6d7|enc%3AAQAHAAAA4Iq9Pd1eiueKRlho1pRz6mLGIWYoVBB9hGlULBiL%2B72LZ7K56%2FDAYH1VLtOU1JIxfTkrd3CcugYiuMVKgz4COsJBDocKkhongqY0furuqr9t%2F0zLI70WErP5pkd5rRm9C%2FNYbQsGvCa0bnG5tz%2FFlRpvdT3PuqkLt8yV%2F0QqntjgZO9HvgBZ0s%2F9UT5jY4Lwk9%2FW7McefMyvSA%2FpuTVFnI4ZSOxWapY6250XWHJDHuf2agrVRFpcf1Ubxcvq4bgMKQSsOTI1NSNl4OUFoSTrq7vJwMS%2BqCAGvadQ4%2BXucA2I|ampid%3APL_CLK|clp%3A2047675

 

So there can be multiple editions per day of the New York Times, which you wouldn't know by going through their online archive. Anybody got any idea on how one can find a copy of page 2 of all editions of the 11/24/1963 New York Times?

[Joseph Backes]

This is indeed a large problem with no easy solution.  It was quite common for many newspapers, the big national reach newspapers like the New York Times and local papers, to have several editions in one day for major events.  And sadly when it comes time to microfilming they do not spend the money to microfilm all of their editions for that day.  

And it highlights perhaps a generational gap in younger people not knowing this.

Back in the day, there was no internet.  There were regular newscasts on TV and radio but even a 30 minute evening newscast by the then three major networks ( CBS, NBC and ABC) was a brand new thing that only started in September of 1963.  Newspapers were in competition with with TV for the advertising dollars.  One way to keep up with breaking news developing on TV was to put out another edition of the newspaper.  

So, one thing to do is to collect old newspapers where one can, especially ones that tell you they are an extra edition.  Ebay is one way.

In some cases you might find an extra edition of a newspaper, or at least an article from one might be in a JFK assassination file.  But, this is not an easy thing to research as you can't search for newspaper clipping within a document.  It's something you'll have to keep an eye out for and take note of as you make your way through the collection.  

It is worth your time to occasionally search "CIA crest," database and The Harold Weisberg Archive.  

Joe

[Joseph Backes]

This would be a great thing to research.

How many editions of ( fill in the blank ) newspapers were there for 11/22/63, 11/23/63, 11/24/63, etc?

Well for the NYT on 11/24/63 there were at least 2.  A normal one and a Late City Edition.  This was the Sunday edition so I don't think there would be many.  I would imagine only section 1 would change.  The Late City Edition would probably have something on Ruby shooting Oswald.  

Joe

[Micah Mileto]

Searching through ebay, I can only find 2 editions of the New York Times on 11/24/1963. The regular edition, and the Late City edition.

Late City Edition photos:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/274326083000?hash=item3fdf1bd5b8:g:Q3wAAOSwWc1ehnF4&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAABADYpoWE0V16SKnvrVcmNTm92VOpX%2F9D4SLeAAtEJSuj2pDEg06juMOQ8%2B1uhsIW%2BaeXiqzgSHWPj0HrtJfsEdxj9BiPz61boSvlWjEoQ4vF5oFuoQ9OmDQMfmS0%2FZ%2Fqot%2BM3F2X83SxZBVdBJejdzUxkqtmjZi0LMiFVkk5B2x%2BXfoThwL0e89olSMvrQg7%2F2jEtKRogOgRVqUGedicY7F3Pf6PlwoMzJCvKHduUrCHInOA21xePbJDNDb5bUq4HmpmosniW4FPSuuDYV7fDAAqyqsNBlZXIbJ7YsTmGUC81MqLZdbziQQoD5taJeZnr8fYV6SvWuiHfZDD9Oen81wY%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR7C98Oq6Yg

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/153665586635?hash=item23c72ec5cb:g:WA4AAOSwrD9dkjwD&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4IMHMXAV%2BxcGB2%2BXfc0y2oOhAOOZ5hWC2SqregWN5GZxjbisMhqb6bm9jmIPstm3Fghb0UiigJqag%2BP0MuxrvxGywkFYoHdFUVNQdiI3Z28poRNaB2RjuakvKop1jjhe%2B%2BSgD6Wh6GQRk2%2BbqdzqYq%2BP2puW7QlV9kWcm%2BytKCeDDyVS6UJ2arSwYSm1yKcQCNvBaPwkPPWYHx%2BX%2BFPnp%2FhEgUMutkDcc%2FNfye2uWp6%2BHPIKUjGq1UgTlCHFmGmqqRRSlmHzRSNLiFFUx%2FUQT7MEVVSQkQWHfOPetIpdRYhT|tkp%3ABk9SR7K98Oq6Yg

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/363552277187?hash=item54a56782c3:g:K9YAAOSwutFZgL9Z&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAABAGpNF5bVLel9Ll5IDxi9rD2HfbV7MjfYcFNo0%2B4iBZVDirBp4U%2B0gAIUYmhAEw3J43%2Fdpp50FczXARO50pO%2FZpsWR4gyWVD9boEYV4VNklYR%2Bz%2BucnUK7MYcj0l6t3HtmSkqI9WfqJSix9dUrSqfQSylhtnAotFBqkMRZ7e8gPWAoe3lb%2FOLk3Q6Vi%2F4%2FLji%2Fa06r1faBaTN6NZf87jDETg8OC%2F1HE17Zx2E0jazeYs32FRU5h6%2B%2F2KQKgvWi2ULuuBqTOysZ1z0UN9kicWOL9GBw%2BmWnnpQdhjpRsyXULXZRQE8fsG5tltx9DLFepgnFajP%2BKUZxokqBU%2FCp5tfFJ8%3D|tkp%3ABFBMsr3w6rpi

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/204296856965?hash=item2f910aa585:g:tAcAAOSwxtFkLsiw&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA0G2UAjiH1Sz8YLTIXN5XlNmRLoB3dmdZtchJYT6SbgaPccmfhZIAgomP9dZbj0RyOeiQZ5vrdEl%2Bfa7o%2F%2Fl2MKH6aZ4KTWCnh4ZN%2Byrl7sIBb5xidjfzUf%2FGxzdz6a4tOt%2BpFQgf8yc5Eeezr21iAbY55Jdev5Lskx%2FrfZAHCRg%2B9u5gd2OzDYV41zv%2FST%2FbSecE%2F%2BCaMeHLhwUGyKqjS7OIJ4yFHljA23VtzGDI6Ka%2B3NYLVTr0D7ilqmp88PVxEgzSp6DUFWs3qxeiLPRh%2BA0%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR7iE1Oq6Yg

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/314028010120?hash=item491d872a88:g:lJAAAOSw-w5hACnB&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4KifI4rnczJjyR%2BgeO2QizZNeaXOdk1mSW2pgQ9poAqsq4ArUAmu1buzH5n50OBytIfUC3gQhpISSapKMbbR5VEC9gb8YIwgYKG%2BLH3kaBVKWtbGDbaEezIBHpZKEgat5yLSdNCU3g8BAgNB%2BbKNq1%2BjTheMOUcYbG%2FYryf5do9c%2Bf67UD4uxsxXOBRArp3ZnRd6Ah2Ewojwyga0dpHuR%2BYIGz1CwzZIbFKiH6uiB22eFFFFWNKwOxlIZHnOz0JPi9F8hjfpCVGzeo%2BN8rII7ytaOHGFgbdWGJ98r%2BEAnYLD|tkp%3ABk9SR7C98Oq6Yg

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/354479604902?hash=item5288a184a6:g:f9gAAOSw7oBjqhNH&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA8OspRQhZvytvnCwcJ7b8fdVIm94KiDYQJOhcpwXtuaHtBrESH5pjQCQoMqluH6obFB23Q9kYfTXoyTxlitH0jqqlRtEFv5c0TjFPqkFdGaqs5RIFhnlKCSOO%2BqZLiAmGAjyLHyLIhoL2ItNi8jvAxbvVhEG%2FVFHhLVqmstU3b2zdD7CaqDk%2Bj%2F3ifswCkpSpWgbeDnI2ZI1Ex1Oy4xjcnsS8nkJNYlGigbz7UnawRwgNY8CQhcjgz0GAtMI%2BKZ9IrZibeSInxsCfuPN3HNdvH3QQa%2BYnuSZ59gLwwA4%2F0ijd651zeCbAOd58VSXE70bGHg%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR7iE1Oq6Yg

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/145224709025?hash=item21d01133a1:g:mv0AAOSwNg1g22kw&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4JCrdA3rwSwx0UDzieyAV9IGnKPT1gT4JoPyacIidBXuIlS%2BQM0T%2BKhHzTqhHjbJ69xCGyOjISeaxqs4bJr7ntkNdQruQR%2BvgEvkvxalAVCd2%2B742IwPoI5mIVPxrVWchI8fREWWJ6DDvpVjXSIEXG%2BV1rCQd1X0Yq6EFOZOlhylfpBgYIDeJ6ZiqFPDWj%2FhotevigPLp4NMbVLOg8GpDPEeqtHp82kc7w8oF4QLHcJmftvU5XkDl3Y8JZQiNEeYjPs9Lt5HBgVWwvy9Y%2FRKW2HEt4vlZHk6yBVE77JD2YcP|tkp%3ABk9SR7K98Oq6Yg

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/144021980524?hash=item218861056c:g:xlIAAOSwOkxgiC8~&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA0DSDpJ1uN%2BLc94bcwlsqgBCJ%2F2QIpMnnnEOJlQiaN3nfnxDCc2GGvW8GzpuO%2Fla6djeW9qmjZRH3USKQJAjoMZBJQBpX1L2ChCOZX1J6h2NH7LmL5kjwHgWgyg5WooDOwuY4Z9r0Crf5c23Sb8OvApbn9iAZTCjstC%2B5v2JedJ5XAtGxpZ6KQNmwO1HfEoWsfx4CvRdOD86iW4IwGHpG8PoPlCW8geWCB9FMeIVryZCJCuIMxJeYTohhO6eHPGD%2F0bEUr5N6eUu1vIioAulOf%2Fc%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR7iE1Oq6Yg

 

There was also a New York Times magazine published 11/24/1963, but that doesn't have what I'm looking for: https://www.ebay.com/itm/402943231437?hash=item5dd149c5cd:g:ly0AAOSwma5g0~1b&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAABAE2mbBseZundZnWXy0P2Xwdx%2FR0HDHOvg0BXZDpW1hKCYSTaVexQJENoI7zsgElngi4UC7AJKdjxDCwlElWOHc01eqO%2BV80XYREDEgGwz0vx25VxgT0HgFcpsgr6AWNV5AVS0iX9D3E6y8n4v299ol7ERTfnNCSb5ypMlEraVaW8oU0XXgVkOlKGsUlyQAtwuWiQHl6rwVe63Zp%2Bk01jqXfL4mq74kGWRJ0tTwCDmmtQ7tjBk5vB1dSomYoX%2BxtpnIGTLNg1ypq5B7GWKX0xwZzrUcG4Knrh8vX8%2BPMEKii%2FySRnKKcEbxH5GDARYwNZ6iCwz5Ggl%2B1%2BB7EN4JmddR8%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR7K98Oq6Yg

Edited August 8, 2023 by Micah Mileto

[Micah Mileto]

For the life of me, I can't find any photographs of page 2 of either 11/24/1963 edition of the New York Times where it shows those quotes - “Dr. Kemp Clark . . . chief of neurology at Parkland Hospital . . . said that there were two wounds, a traumatic wound in the back of the head and a small entrance wound below the Adam’s apple. . . . The head wound could have been caused by an emerging bullet, Dr. Clark said, or it could have been a tangential wound. He said that the wound was ‘large with a considerable loss of tissue.’”

 

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/DCUAAOSwMYth--8z/s-l1600.jpg

 

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/e64AAOSwCp5i4Y8A/s-l1600.jpg

 

https://i.imgur.com/8cNzBKf.png

 

https://i.imgur.com/sj5h1xw.png

 

 

[Micah Mileto]

Searching newspapers.com, I can't find any other newspaper from 11/23/1963 - 11/25/1963 that used the exact phrasing "large with a considerable loss of tissue" attributed to Kemp Clark - I can only find the quote/paraphrase "a large gaping wound with considerable loss of tissue". Maybe it was a paraphrase, or maybe it's somehow a fabricated quote.

Edited August 8, 2023 by Micah Mileto

[Pat Speer]

43 minutes ago, Micah Mileto said:

Searching newspapers.com, I can't find any other newspaper from 11/23/1963 - 11/25/1963 that used the exact phrasing "large with a considerable loss of tissue" attributed to Kemp Clark - I can only find the quote/paraphrase "a large gaping wound with considerable loss of tissue". Maybe it was a paraphrase, or maybe it's somehow a fabricated quote.

FWIW, while working on my website, it became apparent that newspapers are often sloppy or worse. I found numerous instances where they quoted someone from a taped interview where their version of what was said was in contradiction to what was on the tape. There were also a lot of mis-understandings. For example, one journalist misunderstood the doctors' claims there was a large hole on the back of the head, and reported instead that there was a large hole on JFK's back, 

[Joseph Backes]

1 hour ago, Micah Mileto said:

For the life of me, I can't find any photographs of page 2 of either 11/24/1963 edition of the New York Times where it shows those quotes - “Dr. Kemp Clark . . . chief of neurology at Parkland Hospital . . . said that there were two wounds, a traumatic wound in the back of the head and a small entrance wound below the Adam’s apple. . . . The head wound could have been caused by an emerging bullet, Dr. Clark said, or it could have been a tangential wound. He said that the wound was ‘large with a considerable loss of tissue.’”

 

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/DCUAAOSwMYth--8z/s-l1600.jpg

 

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/e64AAOSwCp5i4Y8A/s-l1600.jpg

 

https://i.imgur.com/8cNzBKf.png

 

https://i.imgur.com/sj5h1xw.png

 

 

I suggest writing to the NYT and asking them directly if the quote you're looking for was published in any edition on the 22nd, 23rd or 24th.  Don't do it in an email.  Actually write a letter and snail mail it.  

Joe

 

[Micah Mileto]

56 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

FWIW, while working on my website, it became apparent that newspapers are often sloppy or worse. I found numerous instances where they quoted someone from a taped interview where their version of what was said was in contradiction to what was on the tape. There were also a lot of mis-understandings. For example, one journalist misunderstood the doctors' claims there was a large hole on the back of the head, and reported instead that there was a large hole on JFK's back, 

The uniqueness of the quote is why I'm looking for it. Dr. Clark spoke about Kennedy's wounds at multiple press conferences at Parkland in the days after 11/22/1963, and there are no transcripts available for those appearences, so any unique quotes from news sources could help reconstruct what was said during those conferences.

[Micah Mileto]

 

The article I'm looking for is called "Doctors uncertain of Number of Shots". You can see part of the headline on the lower right of this image: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/e64AAOSwCp5i4Y8A/s-l1600.jpg

[Micah Mileto]

13 minutes ago, Micah Mileto said:

 

The article I'm looking for is called "Doctors uncertain of Number of Shots". You can see part of the headline on the lower right of this image: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/e64AAOSwCp5i4Y8A/s-l1600.jpg

Bingo. The quotes are totally real.

[Micah Mileto]

New York Times, 11/24/1963, Late City Edition, Doctors Uncertain Of Number Of Shots, datelined 11/23/1963 [link] [link 2]:

 

The neurosurgeon who pronounced President Kennedy dead said today that physicians did not know whether he was shot once or twice.

 

Dr. Kemp Clark, 38-year-old chief of neurosurgery at Parkland Hospital, said that the President definitely died of a “gunshot wound in the brain.” He said that there were to wounds, a traumatic wound in the back of the head and a small entrance wound below the Adam’s apple. He said that no bullet was found.

 

The head wound could have been caused by an emerging bullet, Dr. Clark said, or it could have been a tangential wound. He said that the wound was “large, with a considerable loss of tissue.”

 

Dr. Clark said that he had pronounced pronounced Mr. Kennedy dead at 1 P.M. central standard time yesterday.

Edited August 9, 2023 by Micah Mileto