Decipherment of the James Odell Estes story (Carousel Club July-Aug 1963)

[Greg Doudna]

On the Mary Lawrence sighting of Ruby and Craford at the Lucas B & B Restaurant, ca. 3 am, Nov 22, 1963

Thank you Michael K. for the links to the Dallas Police interview reports.

It is of interest that Pete Lucas, owner, said that his waitress, Mary Lawrence, had told him that she saw "Ruby and Oswald" in the restaurant. This was before Mary Lawrence spoke to any authorities about it. 

Lucas's response to the Dallas Police was she was a "chronic l-iar" and "tends to fabricate stories" and "stated there was no truth to the story". Said he, Lucas, had forbidden Ruby to be in the restaurant. 

Uh, no. Lucas is the suspicious one here. I think Mary Lawrence is entirely truthful apart from being mistaken on the Oswald identification, truthful on the Ruby and Craford sighting and truthful on the threatening phone call.

Craford independently confirmed he was with Ruby at the restaurant at that time. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10626#relPageId=399. That independent confirmation cannot have been contrived. Mary Lawrence was telling the truth.

Craford was working at the Vegas Club (very near the Lucas B & B ) till closing in the days in the runup to then. Ruby would come out and give Craford, who did not have a car, a ride back home, to the Carousel Club. It fits.

Mary Lawrence tells Lucas she saw Ruby and Oswald (sic).

Lucas is opposed.

Within days Mary Lawrence has an anonymous male caller threaten her life and advise her to leave town. The identity of that caller has never been solved. At that point Mary Lawrence now goes to the FBI and talks to them for the first time.

This does not sound to me like a crazy woman or who had been put up to it. Few people will just cold-call the FBI to falsely claim a threat on their life in association with a truthful and relevant witness report. Her story of seeing Ruby and Craford (as we now know the identity) was true. So was her report of the threat on her life phone call.

I would say Pete Lucas is a prime suspect as having something to do with that call. No other known motive for anyone to try to stop Mary Lawrence's story. Lucas was opposed to her story. Lucas falsely said Mary Lawrence fabricated it when Mary Lawrence was telling the truth.

Pete Lucas's claim that Ruby was forbidden to be in his restaurant sounds like distancing and, on its face, is questionable since Ruby in fact was there (testimony of Mary Lawrence and Craford independently). 

Why was Pete Lucas either lying or distancing, and trying so hard to discredit Mary Lawrence?

I suppose the innocent explanation would be he doesn't believe Oswald would have been in his restaurant, believes it will be bad for business if that story spreads, wants waitress Mary to shut up for that reason.

But that doesn't account for the death threat phone call, in juxtaposition of timing and motive going to suspect Pete Lucas. 

Sam Pate, reporter for KBOX, "spoke at length with the HSCA investigators about 'information' he received from Pete Lucas of the Lucas B & B Restaurant, that JFK had been killed by one Bruno, who escaped via the storm sewer system"(https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=48709#relPageId=8).

The death threat to Mary Lawrence is puzzling, since there is nothing obviously incriminating to either Ruby or Craford about having been seen in that restaurant near the Vegas Club after they closed up at the Vegas Club, eating an early-morning breakfast before heading home that night. No crime in that. Completely normal behavior and hours for Ruby.  

Pete Lucas is the one and only known person who strenuously did not like Mary Lawrence speaking of that, followed in short order by Mary Lawrence gets that phone call threatening her life. 

Is Pete Lucas a suspect in that death threat to Mary Lawrence? I think so.

"[Sam Pate] also described a 1968 episode in which his car was bombed after Pete Lucas had warned him not to mention Sam Campisi and other mob-connected people on his radio 'gossip show'" (at the link above).

Lucas sounds like a man with nice friends.

I don't think there is any question Mary Lawrence saw Ruby and Craford in that restaurant that night, just before Ruby drove himself and Craford and either dropped off Craford at the Carousel Club (Craford's claim) or alternatively took Craford with him to Ruby's apartment which was only several blocks' short walk to the Tippit killing scene in the direction from which the killer was seen walking toward the crime scene later that day.  

Edited September 20, 2023 by Greg Doudna

[Michael Kalin]

The DPD & FBI efforts relative to Mary Lawrence are aimed at stifling a Ruby/Oswald sighting, with little attention directed to the threat. Crafard played ball to an extent although he gave the wrong date.

The threat itself may have been the work of Peter Lucas, but information about him is sparse. It's possible this is an example of routine intimidation of witnesses who reported events LHO's framers wanted to suppress.

Crafard's candidacy for the role of Tippit killer suffers from a major weakness. He has an alibi. Andy Armstrong places Crafard at the Carousel Club during the critical period.

Mr. HUBERT. So you got to the club about 11:20 and you heard the sirens blowing and you turned on your transistor radio and you heard about the President being shot, and I think you said you went and woke Larry up?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Well, I didn't finish that. I woke Larry up and I--he sat up and I went back out of the room and I went back to what I was doing because it was necessary--absolutely necessary.
Mr. HUBERT. You mean you were on the toilet, is that right?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes; and then I heard further reports and I got up again and I went and told Larry the President had been shot.
Mr. HUBERT. The first time you went there you didn't tell him about the President being shot?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No; I told him somebody shot at the President, and Larry--I noticed the couple of times that I had woke him up he always went back to sleep and he did the same thing this time, but when I told him that the President had been shot, he jumped straight up--he got up immediately and put his clothes on.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, what interval of time elapsed between the first time you woke him up and then went back to the toilet and the second time when you came back and told him the President had been shot?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. I don't know, it couldn't have been longer than a couple of minutes--I don't think.
Mr. HUBERT. All right. What did you all do then?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. We just walked around and listened to the radio, shaking our heads and waiting on more reports.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you have a television in the place?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes; we had a television--I turned the television on.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you all listen to both the television and the radio?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Both the television and the radio--there wasn't too much on the TV, so you could get more on the radio.
Mr. HUBERT. When did you hear from Jack, after the shooting of the President?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Oh, I would say about 15 or 20 minutes.
Mr. HUBERT. After you first heard about it?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. After I first heard about it.
13H329

According to an FBI report Armstrong "estimates he arrived at the Carousel Club at about 12:30PM":

He then immediately ran to a room in the club, where CURTIS LAVERNE CRAFARD, commonly known as LARRY, was sleeping, and awakened him. LARRY, being a very hard sleeper, did not awaken completely at the time and did not get up.
https://catalog.archives.gov/id/7460341?objectPage=59

Also from Armstrong's WC testimony:

Mr. HUBERT. Now, during the time that Jack came in at about 1:30 or so and stayed until about 2:30 or 2:35 or 2:40, was this man Larry Crafard there?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. He was with you at the time?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. Yes.
13H334

The idea of an Oswald-Crafard resemblance does not occur to Armstrong:

Mr. HUBERT. Had you ever seen anybody at the club that looked like Oswald?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No; never did.
Mr. HUBERT. Have you seen Oswald himself in the club?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever tell anybody that you had?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Specifically, did you ever tell Larry Crafard that you had?
Mr. ARMSTRONG. No.
13H343

[Greg Doudna]

Michael K., on the alibi for Craford, that is what Steve Roe always tells me, Andy Armstrong confirms Craford was elsewhere. 

Well yes Andy Armstrong said that but was it truthful? If he was asked to provide the alibi, do you think he would have refused or would disclose that he’d been asked? I don’t. He never talked anything incriminating about anyone. Black in the Deep South 1963, prison time served, working for underworld types … did his job, loyal to a fault, never squealed on anyone …

And that is the only claimed alibi for Craford apart from Ruby and himself. Not sufficient for exculpation. My opinion. 

[Michael Kalin]

Greg, subornation is rife in this case, seldom easily ruled out.

But the threshold should be set higher for inculpation than exculpation. For Crafard there is no evidence that he shot Tippit, starting with the three basic elements: motive, means & opportunity. Produce some hard evidence on point (no "could haves") and the allegation might acquire some substance. I'm not aware anyone has to date.

[Joe Bauer]

Armstrong's timeline for Jack Ruby's appearance at the club on the afternoon of 11,22,1963 was confounding relative to high credibility news reporter Seth Kantor's WC testimony where he clearly states he saw Jack Ruby hanging around inside Parkland hospital and actually had a verbal exchange with him during the time of JFK's ER treatment there.

I of course believe Seth Kantor's story.

The WC could not allow Kantor's Jack Ruby Parkland hospital meetup story to be accepted as true in their report. Their published conclusion was that Kantor was hyper-ventilating from all the excitement of the day and simply imagined the Ruby encounter.

Armstrong's timeline testimony regards the exact time of Ruby's appearance at the Carousel has been accepted as fact ... but not so imo.

I will give Armstrong credit for honesty regards his back and forth runs to the toilet in his efforts to awaken Craford from his deep sleep at 12:30 PM on 11,22,1963.

[Paul Jolliffe]

1 hour ago, Joe Bauer said:

Armstrong's timeline for Jack Ruby's appearance at the club on the afternoon of 11,22,1963 was confounding relative to high credibility news reporter Seth Kantor's WC testimony where he clearly states he saw Jack Ruby hanging around inside Parkland hospital and actually had a verbal exchange with him during the time of JFK's ER treatment there.

I of course believe Seth Kantor's story.

The WC could not allow Kantor's Jack Ruby Parkland hospital meetup story to be accepted as true in their report. Their published conclusion was that Kantor was hyper-ventilating from all the excitement of the day and simply imagined the Ruby encounter.

Armstrong's timeline testimony regards the exact time of Ruby's appearance at the Carousel has been accepted as fact ... but not so imo.

I will give Armstrong credit for honesty regards his back and forth runs to the toilet in his efforts to awaken Craford from his deep sleep at 12:30 PM on 11,22,1963.

Joe,

You are right that Seth Kantor's belief that he interacted with Jack Ruby at Parkland is credible, and I believe him. Kantor believed that he talked with Ruby during the emergency treatment of the president. In other words, before 1 p.m. Even if Kantor was off by a few minutes, that still times his meeting Ruby by 1:15 or so. 

However, I'm not sure Kantor's and Armstrong's accounts of Ruby's movements that afternoon are necessarily exclusive. It's only a ten-minute drive from Dealey Plaza (near where the Dallas Morning New building where Armstrong believed that Ruby called him from) and Parkland Hospital.

From Parkland back to the Carousel Club was only about a 13- or 14-minute drive. 

So, could Ruby have called Armstrong from the DMN building (as Armstrong believed), driven to Parkland Hospital where he talked with Seth Kantor (presumably in an effort to find out the president's condition so he could make a decision about closing the Carousel Club) and then driven back to the Carousel Club sometime after 2 pm? 

Armstrong testified that Ruby arrived at the Carousel Club within about "five minutes" of the announcement that President Kennedy was dead. If Armstrong was accurate (a big "IF"), then Walter Cronkite's televised announcement at 1:38 would put Ruby at the Carousel around 1:45.

 

Even if Armstrong was somewhat off about the timing, then it seems reasonable to me that Ruby could have driven from the DMN to Parkland, interacted with Kantor, and then returned to the Carousel in time for Armstrong's testimony to be fairly accurate, but hardly precise.

Was Armstrong 100% accurate in his reconstructed timing? Probably not.

Was he lying, and more importantly, did his testimony exclude the Kantor version of events (which itself may not have been exact in its timing)?

No, at least, not in my opinion.

 

 

 

[Joe Bauer]

Ruby had ample time to drive from the DMN building to Parkland. Go in and see and converse with Kantor...and then leave again to make the 13 to 14 minute drive back to his club.

JFK was shot at 12:30 pm. He was pronounced dead at 1:PM.

Armstrong testified that Ruby came back at the club at about 1:30 pm or 1:45 PM.

I'll have another look at Armstrong's WC testimony...but I think Armstrong wasn't 100% sure about Ruby's exact arrival times.

I'll copy and past Armstrong's relevant WC testimony.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Joe Bauer

[Paul Jolliffe]

16 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Ruby had ample time to drive from the DMN building to Parkland. Go in and see and converse with Kantor...and then leave again to make the 13 to 14 minute drive back to his club.

JFK was shot at 12:30 pm. He was pronounced dead at 1:PM.

Armstrong testified that Ruby came back at the club at about 1:30 pm or 1:45 PM.

I'll have another look at Armstrong's WC testimony...but I think Armstrong wasn't 100% sure about Ruby's exact arrival times.

I'll copy and past Armstrong's relevant WC testimony.

Joe,

It seems very likely that Andrew Armstrong's timing about when Ruby called him was not very precise, but he got the general sequence right. 

Armstrong told the FBI that he arrived at the Carousel Club around 12:30 and very shortly heard multiple police sirens some blocks west. He turned the radio to KLIF and listened to the initial confused reports about the shooting in Dealey Plaza. He tried to awaken the sleeping Crafard, and only succeeded later when the reports of the presidential party's travel at Parkland Hospital were broadcast. 

Jack Ruby called Armstrong "five to fifteen minutes" after Crafard got up, which was some minutes after the initial new of the shooting on the radio.

Prior to the announcement of the president's death, Armstrong said he heard several announcements about a Dallas Police Officer being shot. As far as I can recall, no radio reports about the Tippit shooting happened much before 1:30.

We know that Walter Cronkite announced the president's death at 1:38, and this is widely considered to be the first official announcement on television. I don't know what time KLIF aired that news, but it couldn't have been before then: nobody at Parkland had announced the news until about 1:35 or so.

Armstrong estimated that Ruby arrived at the Carousel Club "fifteen or twenty minutes" after he'd heard the news of the president's death on the radio. That would put Ruby's arrival at the Carousel a little before 2 pm. 

Armstrong told the FBI that he thought Ruby arrived around "1:45 or 1:50", which is more or less accurate. Armstrong also made a point of telling the FBI that his timing might have been off by a little bit, but "are accurate to within a few minutes."

What's particularly interesting about this FBI interview on January 23, 1964, is the FBI's concern that Ruby might have mentioned going to Parkland Hospital to Armstrong. The FBI questioned Armstrong about his knowledge of Ruby's movements before Ruby arrived at the Carousel.

Armstrong denied any knowledge and said Ruby had mentioned nothing to him about going to Parkland Hospital.

This means the FBI knew they had a "Ruby at Parkland Hospital" problem: Armstrong's timeline did NOT rule out a Ruby to Parkland trip. Seth Kantor's story was almost certainly true, and the FBI knew it.

Warren Commission, Volume XIX: Armstrong Ex 5310 A-G - Copies of various FBI reports of interviews of Andrew Armstrong. (aarclibrary.org)

[Joe Bauer]

19 hours ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

What's particularly interesting about this FBI interview on January 23, 1964, is the FBI's concern that Ruby might have mentioned going to Parkland Hospital to Armstrong. The FBI questioned Armstrong about his knowledge of Ruby's movements before Ruby arrived at the Carousel.

Armstrong denied any knowledge and said Ruby had mentioned nothing to him about going to Parkland Hospital.

This means the FBI knew they had a "Ruby at Parkland Hospital" problem: Armstrong's timeline did NOT rule out a Ruby to Parkland trip. Seth Kantor's story was almost certainly true, and the FBI knew it.

Warren Commission, Volume XIX: Armstrong Ex 5310 A-G - Copies of various FBI reports of interviews of Andrew Armstrong. (aarclibrary.org)

Great points Paul.

Your timelines are well proven by cross checking them with news broadcasts.

And yes, if the FBI questioned Andy Armstrong about whether Ruby had mentioned to him that he ( Ruby ) had stopped by Parkland hospital, which appears to be the case with Armstrong actually answering he hadn't heard Ruby mention Parkland...we have even more evidence that Seth Kantor told the truth about his meet up with Ruby at Parkland.

Edited September 24, 2023 by Joe Bauer

[Greg Doudna]

Musings on Jack Ruby at Parkland Hospital

Seth Kantor is too credible for his testimony not to be true, plus I don't recall the details but I believe there are two, not one, additional witnesses backing up Kantor. So I take it as fact that Ruby was there. That is not my question, but different questions.

Why? And even more important, why would Ruby deny it later, after making a point to say hi to Kantor without hiding that he was there?

Why was Ruby at Parkland?

Best guess--to be on the spot for firsthand verification JFK was dead, the very question that he asked Kantor, did Kantor know whether JFK had died?

Why does he care enough about that to be on hand at the hospital to learn that? Well, it could suggest he was part of the assassination. 

And Ruby's conspiracy theory that Jews were being set up, could well be even more convincing in his mind if he had a role in the assassination, then in part because of the Jewish name on that anti-JFK billboard, suspected he and Jews in general were being set up. Perhaps he told Earl Warren that he feared he would be accused of the JFK assassination because that accusation was true. Ruby's strange statement about (wording not exact) "the world will never know the full truth of those who put me in this situation..." WHO put RUBY into WHAT situation, in Ruby's meaning?

The question of why Ruby was not himself killed if he was part of the JFK assassination: could the explanation there be as simple as Sheriff Decker's protection was effective, and Decker was not personally corrupted sufficient to be party to allowing a prisoner in his custody such as Ruby to be killed? 

Ruby feared being killed when he was behind bars in Dallas, according to Courson in Sneed, No More Silence. Why, if he had decided on his own to kill Oswald and nobody else was behind him in that, and he had nothing to do with the JFK assassination?

The old story told by fire chiefs, that in any arson case, the arsonist often turns out to be somewhere in group photos watching the place burn down. Ruby at Parkland. Getting word of the president's death just as soon as there was any news unofficial or official, even before it hit the press.

Did he set up an alibi for why he was at Parkland in advance of the assassination? Joyce McDonald (Joy Dale), dancer and rumored pregnant with Ruby's baby (that is documented as a rumor at the time, whether or not it was true, it apparently was believed true by some). Joyce McDonald, who Ruby mistakenly gave the address on 10th Street where the Tippit patrol car had stopped in front when Tippit was killed as Joyce McDonald's (Joy Dale's) address. 

Joyce McDonald, who by coincidence was at Parkland that very day with her daughter for a prearranged eye medical exam for her daughter. She told of it, claimed she and her daughter took buses both ways to get there and back.

Joyce McDonald, who with her daughter upon leaving Parkland did not do what most mothers of a small girl might do, and go, er, home, but instead--she claims with her little girl with her--went instead to the Carousel Club from Parkland. Claimed some reason like she was supposed to teach a new hire dancer some dance moves or something. In any case Joyce McDonald's consistent story is she went to the Carousel Club and was there, heard Ruby breathe violence toward Oswald out of sympathy he was so broken up over Jackie Kennedy's loss, etc.

Except Andy Armstrong who was there that afternoon said he never saw any women or dancers there. I think that answer was so surprising that in his WC testimony he was asked two or three times just to make sure. No, no, no, from Andy Armstrong to that one.  

She says she was there. Andy Armstrong, who was there, didn't know anything about it. Whose story was wrong there?

There is no record that Ruby saw or met Joyce McDonald at Parkland--but then by the time Ruby was asked about it he was denying he had been to Parkland altogether, so naturally he would not tell if he had seen Joyce there. I am not quite certain their times overlapped that day but they were both there that day and I think their times may have overlapped. Maybe its coincidence.

But why did Ruby then deny he was there? What was the point in that? 

He wasn't denying his presence to Kantor. Why was he later denying?

(continued)

Edited September 26, 2023 by Greg Doudna

[Greg Doudna]

(continued) Why did Ruby lie about being at Parkland? 

The lying about being at Parkland is an argument something is amiss with Ruby. If he were innocent, what would be the point in lying or denying about being at Parkland?  

Unless some other unknown factor is invoked, the obvious reason he would lie about it, and what changed, was the killing of Oswald. The killing of Oswald put Ruby front and center as a suspect in the JFK assassination (assuming law enforcement had not otherwise solved the case and was running an honest investigation of obvious suspects). Ruby would expect that. Ruby was ready for that. He did his best to be convincing that he had acted on impulse out of sympathy for Jackie so overwhelming he just could not stop himself from spontaneously walking over to the Dallas Police Station, where by a total further coincidence he happened to be just a couple of blocks away to wire $25 to a dancer at the time Oswald was being transferred, and kill Oswald dead when he was being transferred. Ruby's alibi went to the sympathy and penalty stage of the crime--he couldn't deny doing the crime itself.

The reconstruction would be that on Friday at around 1 pm, Ruby did not at that moment know he would himself be killing Oswald on Sunday. In all likelihood the expectation would be that Oswald would be killed the same day of the assassination and would not be taken into police custody to begin with. Ruby was only "asked", or "persuaded", or "given an offer he couldn't refuse", however that worked, sometime later that day or evening, after Oswald's arrest in the Texas Theatre where Oswald was likely planned to be killed but police arrived too quickly and Oswald was not killed at that moment.   

When as I have discussed, Craford tossed what I suspect was the Tippit murder weapon on a downtown street in a paper bag with fruit in it while in the back seat of Ruby's car driving him at about 6 am Saturday morning--the "paper bag revolver" of the kind that killed Tippit, ditched as a murder weapon that could be traced to the crime but not to the killer if the gun was ditched (because not ditching it risked having it be found on one's person or in one's belongings if searched).

And I have assumed Ruby was assisting and cooperating with Craford in Craford's flight from Dallas that Saturday morning, but what if that was, in the end, Craford's decision on his own after all, not expected by Ruby? Maybe Craford saved his own life by escaping Dallas when he did? And in a scenario in which Craford was not being assisted by Ruby in leaving Dallas that morning, then the Tippit murder weapon tossed out of Craford's rear seat window, inside a paper bag in which Craford was ostensibly carrying an apple and an orange to munch on in the car, would be opportunistic on Craford's part. If noticed (as a toss out the window by their rear passenger probably would have been noticed by Ruby and George Senator riding in the front seat) it would look to Ruby and Senator, unless Ruby was told otherwise, as no other than normal littering--a paper bag with fruit in it tossed as litter, only Craford knowing there was also a snub-nosed .38 Smith & Wesson revolver recently used in a murder being thrown out too with the fruit in that paper bag.

(And that could also account for the revolver not being thrown out in what some might think should be a "better" way of doing so, such as into a river or something--though if the weapon was untraceable to the person it would not matter if it was found and traced to the crime. If Craford ditched the weapon without Ruby knowing that was what Craford was doing, Craford who had no car would have to simply toss it at some point while Ruby was driving without control over where Ruby was driving.)

Conclusion 

Ruby lying about having been at Parkland, lying which happened after Ruby killed Oswald, may signal that: Ruby was part of the JFK assassination; Ruby was at Parkland related to the JFK assassination (perhaps to learn verification of death of JFK as soon as possible); and Ruby was "distancing" himself from that after he was arrested for the killing of Oswald. 

There has been a lot of thinking that Ruby, even if suspected of having been involved in a mob hit on Oswald, could not have been witting to the JFK assassination itself. It is argued he was too much of a blabbermouth to be trusted, etc and etc. Does that argument fly? According to some reports Ruby was involved in some heavy things like gunrunning and trips to Cuba and Ruby was not obviously irresponsible or untrusted about that. In the case of the JFK assassination, a lot looks like Ruby was a middleman, up to his ears in it from a mob angle who had motive and presumably a green light even if only a nod and a wink from people in positions of power that it was a "go" to proceed. And the prima facie indication that there was awareness at high levels of the likely existence of some sort of nod and wink that had been passed through layers of cutouts to proceed, is the complete lack of Warren Commission investigation of any mob angle, resolutely, by policy, failing to find any serious mob connections of Ruby himself which is like not finding gambling in Casablanca in the movie. A WC exhibit literally has whited out or disappeared the last paragraph of a document telling of a Civello connection to a witness, in what was published in the WC Exhibits, learned when the real document later came to light with the disappeared paragraph intact.    

Ruby would not have been witting of all of the assassination. He would serve as a flunky type, not an initiator or planner. But he was witting of some of the JFK assassination, and got away with it in terms of the Warren Commission investigation.

What it looks like, sixty years later. 

And when Ruby finally won his change of venue for his new trial, was he thinking if he could survive until the move there, he could speak of things he knew? And that is why his "deathbed confession" in Dallas in his final interview was another recitation of his Jackie-sympathy story as always, same old story, because he wasn't planning on that being his last confession, or dying days later, but was stalling for time? 

The HSCA under Blakey did go after the mob angle but could not find anything beyond suspicion, and when their mandate and funding from Congress ran out the FBI did not pursue further investigation as HSCA asked.

Upon news that Marcello had confessed, the FBI decided that was the appropriate time to declare the entire JFK investigation, which had been kept formally open until that moment, closed and over for good. 

[END]

[Greg Doudna]

More on Craford and Ruby seen by Jarnagin

My basis thesis is to see identity and continuity between Odell Estes' "Lee" with Ruby (July-Aug 1963, Carousel Club), Jarnagin's "Lee" meeting with Ruby (Oct 4, 1963, Carousel Club), the killer of Tippit (Nov 22, 1963), and the source of the ditched/tossed paper-bag revolver and hitchhiking to Michigan the next morning of Curtis Craford (Nov 23, 1963).

All four of those I believe are well argued to be Curtis Craford. It is possible to omit the third (killer of Tippit) without affecting the argument that the first and second are the same person and both of those persons were Curtis Craford. 

With thanks to Bart Kamp posting documents from the National Archives comes this amazing find of typed notes which substantially support the Curtis Craford identification of the Jarnagin story. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nFZXRIdQ_zaCdVk6YCWOWKyEH0i-LToy/view (posted by Bart Kamp at ROKC where other interesting document finds are posted (at 18 Sept 2023): https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t1023-larry-crafard#43129. 

The author is a Mrs. Jackie Dolan (unfamiliar to me), date unknown but some time prior to a JFK Records Act release of 1997.

A caveat: pages 16-17 are practically "picture perfect" on the case for Curtis Craford as the man Jarnagin overheard the night of Oct 4, 1963 discussing a contract killing with Jack Ruby at the Carousel Club. But pages 18-19 which go to the author's conjectures after that foundation are (my opinion) not right. Just forget that part of it. But pages 16-17 on the analysis of the Craford identification itself ... is gold.     

More on Craford in Dallas in 1963

The earlier pages of this same document have further interesting material, including a discussion of discrepancies and details in Craford's employment timeline 1960-1963. 

After working through some of the anomalies in Craford's Warren Commission testimony, on page 4 the author asks:

"Query: Is it possible Larry Crafard never left Dallas in June 1963?"

The author asked that question with no hint of awareness that Craford may show up in the Odell Estes story making appearances in the Carousel Club in Dallas in July-Aug 1963. 

Even in Odell Estes' story, Estes has his "Lee" taking a flight out of Dallas's Love Field for a few days to somewhere unspecified and returning. Craford's actual movements around the country seem to be somewhat fluid in his telling, poorly corroborated apart from his account which is only semi-reliable. 

Edited October 19, 2023 by Greg Doudna