New York Magazine Swings Hatchet Low-Blow Into RFK Jr. (And JFK Records?)

[W. Niederhut]

8 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

Let’s bring this back to RFK jr. I still have the feeling most here have formed their opinions on news coverage, not on his words or his organization’s purpose. Say it ain’t so.

i don’t need lessons in the calumny of the Republican Party. Seriously. Or in how things work in Congress. When you fight for what’s right you don’t just make political calculations. 

long segment today on npr about our declining health outcomes and longevity. Anyone else hear it? Vaccines have been useful, but they are not the answer. My beef is that we push vaccines on a population that is suffering in so many ways which we as a nation barely address. RFK Jr sees that and talks about it as loudly as he is able, but everyone shoots him down. Please let go of the vaccine argument. He is completely right about the failure of this country to take care of its people. 

Paul,

     Obviously, vaccines are only one facet of improving public health outcomes in the U.S.

     The Democrats have taken major steps toward improving the public health in the U.S. in the decades since Ted Kennedy, et.al., established Medicare and Medicaid-- in the teeth of Republican opposition by Reagan, et.al.

     Democratic Obamacare was another step in the right direction, although the ACA legislation was undermined from the beginning by Republican opposition, (and by Max Baucus and Joe Lieberman) and by Trump/GOP sabotage of the individual mandate in December of 2017.

      Can you and Ben Cole name any contributions that Republicans ('Phants) have ever made toward improving the public health?

      The only two things that I can think of were Nixon's admirable role in helping to establish the EPA, and George W. Bush's Medicare D legislation before the 2004 election.  But Dubya's Medicare D bill was unfunded, and prohibited Medicare from negotiating lower drug prices.  It was a gift to Big Pharma profiteers.

[Paul Brancato]

1 hour ago, W. Niederhut said:

Paul,

     Obviously, vaccines are only one facet of improving public health outcomes in the U.S.

     The Democrats have taken major steps toward improving the public health in the U.S. in the decades since Ted Kennedy, et.al., established Medicare and Medicaid-- in the teeth of Republican opposition by Reagan, et.al.

     Democratic Obamacare was another step in the right direction, although the ACA legislation was undermined from the beginning by Republican opposition, (and by Max Baucus and Joe Lieberman) and by Trump/GOP sabotage of the individual mandate in December of 2017.

      Can you and Ben Cole name any contributions that Republicans ('Phants) have ever made toward improving the public health?

      The only two things that I can think of were Nixon's admirable role in helping to establish the EPA, and George W. Bush's Medicare D legislation before the 2004 election.  But Dubya's Medicare D bill was unfunded, and prohibited Medicare from negotiating lower drug prices.  It was a gift to Big Pharma profiteers.

Do you really think I’m an equal opportunity Party basher? I’m far to the left of you and others here as far as I can tell. Republicans have been horrible on that and nearly every other issue. But Democrats are only marginally better. Public health in America is declining. It’s not just because our health care system is lagging other western democracies. It’s the stress, the poor diets, the lack of education, opioids, Gun deaths, auto deaths, maternity deaths, financial hardship. Reducing RFK Jr to only being anti-Vax shows you how screwed up the system actually is. Take a look at his website. Whatever one thinks of vaccines or vaccine policy, they are not the problem. We have a very vaccinated population, much more so than when we were kids, not to mention our forebears. 
Look at life expectancy figures in red states and districts and poor enclaves. The answer to your question about why red states fared worse with Covid is right there. Bad health is the culprit. 
 

[W. Niederhut]

4 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

Do you really think I’m an equal opportunity Party basher? I’m far to the left of you and others here as far as I can tell. Republicans have been horrible on that and nearly every other issue. But Democrats are only marginally better. Public health in America is declining. It’s not just because our health care system is lagging other western democracies. It’s the stress, the poor diets, the lack of education, opioids, Gun deaths, auto deaths, maternity deaths, financial hardship. Reducing RFK Jr to only being anti-Vax shows you how screwed up the system actually is. Take a look at his website. Whatever one thinks of vaccines or vaccine policy, they are not the problem. We have a very vaccinated population, much more so than when we were kids, not to mention our forebears. 
Look at life expectancy figures in red states and districts and poor enclaves. The answer to your question about why red states fared worse with Covid is right there. Bad health is the culprit. 
 

Paul,

     History shows that there are, in fact, major differences between the two parties in the U.S. on issues relating to the public health, including many that you just listed.

     At the top of the list are Democratic sponsorship of Medicare, Medicaid, and Obamacare-- all of which have been bitterly and persistently opposed by Republicans, from their inception.

     How many times did the Koch/Tea Party House vote to abolish/de-fund Obamacare after 2009?

     Then Trump and the GOP Congress abolished the Obamacare individual mandate in their 2017 tax cut bill.

     Paul Ryan and the Tea Party House passed two budget bills after 2010 that would have abolished Medicare, as we know it, for retirees born after 1959.

     Many Republicans fought tooth-and-claw to obstruct basic public health interventions during the COVID pandemic.

     Gun control?  Republicans have persistently sabotaged it.

     Healthy diets?  Republicans opposed Michelle Obama's efforts.

     Poverty?  Republicans have consistently opposed Democratic legislation to alleviate poverty in the U.S., while repeatedly cutting taxes for the wealthy.

     Education?  Republicans have consistently opposed Democratic efforts to fund public education, and scientific research.

     Pollution?  Same story.

    

Edited April 12, 2023 by W. Niederhut

[Paul Brancato]

2 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Paul,

     History shows that there are, in fact, major differences between the two parties in the U.S. on issues relating to the public health, including many that you just listed.

     At the to of the list are Democratic sponsorship of Medicare, Medicaid, and Obamacare-- all of which have been bitterly and persistently opposed by Republicans, from their inception.

     How many times did the Koch/Tea Party House vote to abolish/de-fund Obamacare after 2009?

     Then Trump and the GOP Congress abolished the Obamacare individual mandate in their 2017 tax cut bill.

     Paul Ryan and the Tea Party House passed two budget bills after 2010 that would have abolished Medicare, as we know it, for retirees born after 1959.

     Many Republicans fought tooth-and-claw to obstruct basic public health interventions during the COVID pandemic.

     Gun control?  Republicans have persistently sabotaged it.

     Healthy diets?  Republicans opposed Michelle Obama's efforts.

     Poverty?  Republicans have consistently opposed Democratic legislation to alleviate poverty in the U.S., while repeatedly cutting taxes for the wealthy.

     Education?  Republicans have consistently opposed Democratic efforts to fund public education, and scientific research.

     Pollution?  Same story.

    

Of course. But why the history lesson? Not for my benefit I hope. The only thing I will add is that the Democrats look good by comparison, and there are always a sizable handful of progressives amongst the Democrats, virtually none among the Republicans, and occasionally some good emerges. But you’re smart enough to know that it’s a drop in the bucket. You can’t seriously blame the Republicans for everything. There’s always a few Democrats that lean to the right just enough to thwart substantive change. Public option? Nope. Charter schools - yep. Reverse tax cuts for the rich? Nope. Support the Iraq War? Yep, in bunches. Hand slaps to the polluters. Aren’t you frustrated at more than just the Republicans? You describe yourself as a centrist Democrat. I’d be curious how you test on the political spectrum. 

[W. Niederhut]

1 hour ago, Paul Brancato said:

Of course. But why the history lesson? Not for my benefit I hope. The only thing I will add is that the Democrats look good by comparison, and there are always a sizable handful of progressives amongst the Democrats, virtually none among the Republicans, and occasionally some good emerges. But you’re smart enough to know that it’s a drop in the bucket. You can’t seriously blame the Republicans for everything. There’s always a few Democrats that lean to the right just enough to thwart substantive change. Public option? Nope. Charter schools - yep. Reverse tax cuts for the rich? Nope. Support the Iraq War? Yep, in bunches. Hand slaps to the polluters. Aren’t you frustrated at more than just the Republicans? You describe yourself as a centrist Democrat. I’d be curious how you test on the political spectrum. 

Paul,

    I mentioned Max Baucus and Joe Lieberman (above) in the context of the ACA public option sabotage-- so, yes, I'm aware that the GOP has had a few Democratic Party accomplices in their decades-long sabotage of the public health.

    On the Political Compass, a few years ago, I rated very close to dead center-- slightly left of center-- which isn't too bad for a "close-minded ultra-liberal," eh?  🤥

[Paul Brancato]

3 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Paul,

    I mentioned Max Baucus and Joe Lieberman (above) in the context of the ACA public option sabotage-- so, yes, I'm aware that the GOP has had a few Democratic Party accomplices in their decades-long sabotage of the public health.

    On the Political Compass, a few years ago, I rated very close to dead center-- slightly left of center-- which isn't too bad for a "close-minded ultra-liberal," eh?  🤥

Yes you did. It’s an understatement. Senators generally in safe districts are the ones that break ranks, and it’s mostly a Democrat problem, dontcha think? I think there is political calculation going on. You mentioned Lieberman - didn’t his defection prevent Obama from a 60 vote Senate majority? We naturally assume he just acted from conscience, but I still feel the distaste from watching him speak. My gut says if he hadn’t been the one to break ranks another Senator would have come forward. He took one for the team, and I don’t mean one of the two political parties, I mean for the ruling elites, MIC, whatever one chooses to call it. I draw some conclusions from that, and from the recent Manchin Sinema debacle, which occurred at a time when Democrats were prepared, so they say, to ignore the 60 vote buzz kill in favor of 50 Senators plus the VP. Democrats tried to play tough and still got thwarted. I always wonder, when I ponder this remarkable ability Democrats have to fragment just enough, why? Who is pulling the strings. It’s a pattern with a history, so I’m not prepared to buy the more simple story that the good Democrats are being thwarted by the evil Republicans, and if only they could get power they could reverse all this. I do believe, William, that many if not most of them want to be on the right side of history and do what’s right for the people, which is why I still vote for them - usually. A few exceptions - I couldn’t vote for Mondale in 1984. He had no chance - and he was exactly the kind of Democrat I’m sick of - faux pro labor. Kinda like Biden. But I did pull the lever for Biden, and for H Clinton, warmongers both. That’s what it’s come to for me. But when RFK jr throws his hat in the ring he has my support, no matter how he is ripped to shreds, no matter how much we are led to believe he couldn’t possibly win, because he is so much better than the alternatives. Nothing will change for the better in my view, a partisan one, until progressives run and win, and the old party leaders are replaced.