Lee Harvey Oswald's two jackets and why the Tippit killer's jacket was not one of them

[Greg Doudna]

6 minutes ago, Ron Ege said:

Greg, thanks.

There's some back and forth here, but I believe that you are on quite solid ground, making the case that there were three jackets, Oswald's two and the one "found" under a vehicle at the gas station.  Others who have also addressed the issue, to me, have buttressed your position.

I personally, do not recall ever, anyone plausibly refuting that there was a not a third jacket - and no credible evidence that the third "found" jacket could conceivably and rationally be construed to have been owned by Oswald.

Not being omniscient, I cannot know if Oswald actually "ditched", what from the credible evidence we have, was the grey jacket, the one that quite credibly, he wore to work that morning.  But in the light of anything else, it "went" somewhere - between leaving the TSBD, and if we choose to believe Roberts, Oswald entering her rooming house.

Thanks Ron. 

The interesting thing is Myers himself in With Malice is willing to consider that the Warren Commission erred in claiming Oswald wore his blue jacket (CE 163) to work the morning of Nov 22, and suggests that it "remains a possibility" that Oswald may have worn his gray jacket to work that morning, in agreement with the compelling testimony of Buell Wesley Frazier and others.

Of course Myers assumes that the gray jacket described by Frazier was the off-white light tan CE 162, even though CE 162 is nothing like Frazier's description of the gray jacket. Myers does not question that equation. But Myers is open to the possibility that Oswald was wearing his gray jacket--whatever jacket that was--instead of his blue 163 that morning.

In this alternative possibility suggested by Myers, at that critical last stage when Whaley said Oswald left his cab wearing a gray jacket, Oswald walks (unwitnessed) on Beckley, then Oswald enters the rooming house (now witnessed again) without a jacket--where either one of the witnesses is wrong or Oswald discarded his jacket en route--Myers suggests Earlene Robert could be wrong in his scenario, and that Oswald did enter the rooming house wearing his gray jacket (which, in that scenario, Oswald did not change unlike other of his clothes, and wore again which Myers holds to be CE 162 back out the same door). 

Whereas in my reconstruction I accept both the witness of Whaley and Earlene Roberts (finding both their Oswald jacket-wearing/non-wearing witness claims credible), and therefore conclude an abandoned jacket in between like the Tippit killer abandoned a jacket in between two witnessed points. 

So there are the three options:

• Whaley's claim was wrong (belief of Bill);
• Earlene Roberts' claim was wrong (suggested as a possibility by Myers);
• both witnesses were correct: Oswald left the cab with the gray jacket, and entered the rooming house without it (my judgment)

And the conclusion drawn from accepting both of those witnesses as credible concerning Oswald's gray jacket and lack thereof also explains what became of Oswald's gray jacket and why it is not in existence today. 

[Ron Ege]

1 hour ago, Greg Doudna said:

Thanks Ron. 

The interesting thing is Myers himself in With Malice is willing to consider that the Warren Commission erred in claiming Oswald wore his blue jacket (CE 163) to work the morning of Nov 22, and suggests that it "remains a possibility" that Oswald may have worn his gray jacket to work that morning, in agreement with the compelling testimony of Buell Wesley Frazier and others.

Of course Myers assumes that the gray jacket described by Frazier was the off-white light tan CE 162, even though CE 162 is nothing like Frazier's description of the gray jacket. Myers does not question that equation. But Myers is open to the possibility that Oswald was wearing his gray jacket--whatever jacket that was--instead of his blue 163 that morning.

In this alternative possibility suggested by Myers, at that critical last stage when Whaley said Oswald left his cab wearing a gray jacket, Oswald walks (unwitnessed) on Beckley, then Oswald enters the rooming house (now witnessed again) without a jacket--where either one of the witnesses is wrong or Oswald discarded his jacket en route--Myers suggests Earlene Robert could be wrong in his scenario, and that Oswald did enter the rooming house wearing his gray jacket (which, in that scenario, Oswald did not change unlike other of his clothes, and wore again which Myers holds to be CE 162 back out the same door). 

Whereas in my reconstruction I accept both the witness of Whaley and Earlene Roberts (finding both their Oswald jacket-wearing/non-wearing witness claims credible), and therefore conclude an abandoned jacket in between like the Tippit killer abandoned a jacket in between two witnessed points. 

So there are the three options:

• Whaley's claim was wrong (belief of Bill);
• Earlene Roberts' claim was wrong (suggested as a possibility by Myers);
• both witnesses were correct: Oswald left the cab with the gray jacket, and entered the rooming house without it (my judgment)

And the conclusion drawn from accepting both of those witnesses as credible concerning Oswald's gray jacket and lack thereof also explains what became of Oswald's gray jacket and why it is not in existence today. 

Greg, thanks; well written.

Me thinks the preponderance of the evidence supports that Whaley was not wrong.  That would leave us with your options 2 & 3.

Whaley spent much more time in proximity to Oswald than did Roberts.  Didn't she say that when Oswald came in the door that she was attending to the TV, getting updates on JFK?

 

[Paul Cummings]

The coats could easily be a MacGuffin.

[Bill Brown]

--  The jacket/coat that Oswald is wearing in the black and white Minsk photo has a hole in the elbow of the right sleeve and must be gray (as opposed to blue or any other color).

It very likely is Oswald's gray jacket because it agrees so well in description with Buell Wesley Frazier's description of Oswald's gray jacket. And, because Oswald had a gray jacket in Minsk according to Marina, and the jacket in the Minsk photo is not the blue CE 163, and the only jackets Marina said Oswald had in Minsk were the gray and the blue. 

 

Only two jackets?  You do realize that Oswald is seen in another USSR photo wearing a long coat.  Right?

 

[Denny Zartman]

2 hours ago, Paul Cummings said:

The coats could easily be a MacGuffin.

Do you mean red herring?

[Paul Cummings]

40 minutes ago, Denny Zartman said:

Do you mean red herring?

Hitchcock. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacGuffin

[Sean Coleman]

On 6/19/2023 at 11:10 PM, Paul Cummings said:

The coats could easily be a MacGuffin.

Surely you mean a ‘McMuffin’ - ie. a cheap inedible item, easily discarded, often found under parked cars.

Whilst on the subject of snack items…it is a lesser known factoid that LHO referred to himself as a ‘paSty,’  not a ‘paTsy.’ 
He often pronounced his words wrong ie. “aKsed me….” instead of “aSked me.” This always confused the hell out of Marina.

 

 

Edited July 9, 2023 by Sean Coleman

[Paul Cummings]

1 hour ago, Sean Coleman said:

Surely you mean a ‘McMuffin’ - ie. a cheap inedible item, easily discarded, often found under parked cars.

Whilst on the subject of snack items…it is a lesser known factoid that LHO referred to himself as a ‘paSty,’  not a ‘paTsy.’ 
He often pronounced his words wrong ie. “aKsed me….” instead of “aSked me.” This always confused the hell out of Marina.

 

I think it's safe to say Hitchcock would've loved the Egg McMuffin.